A number of conservative bloggers are terribly disturbed by an ad that shows a wife who wants to please her husband. Stephen Kruiser wrote in his post titled Cops Should Do a Wellness Check on Woman in Peloton Christmas Ad:
A quick respite from the political news slog has been delivered unto us from the most unlikely of places. Peloton — the indoor workout bike that runs around fourteen and a half million dollars — has released a Christmas with a creep factor so high that it has people reaching across the aisle in agreement about its awfulness.
…
This fictional frightened woman’s yearlong journey to lose the 14 ounces of water weight that her husband the good Doctor Mengele insists she musts is the Christmas miracle that a news-weary world needs.
Kruiser’s reaction comes after reading Allapundit’s post on the ad:
The weird part is the … eagerness with which she shows her gratitude. It’s lovely to be grateful for an expensive gift, but she’s *really* grateful and *really, really* wants her husband to know it. It’s not just that she feels compelled to record herself using the bike repeatedly over a span of many months. She looks curiously anxious doing it, even when smiling into the camera. At the end of the clip, when she finally shows him the footage, her eyes are trained on his reaction, seemingly desperate for his approval.
Is, um… How do I put this?
Is everything okay between these two?
I feel like there’s a lost scene here right after he gives her the bike where he grabs her by the throat and growls, “And you’d better use it.” Real “Sleeping With the Enemy” vibe in her excessive need to please.
Stephen Green linked to Kruiser’s post with the note:
I just watched the ad, and the creep factor is off the charts.
What I find disturbing is that none of these men can imagine a wife wanting to please her husband, and feeling grateful for a much loved (not to mention expensive) gift. I don’t know a kind way to put this, but I don’t think they understand what they are giving away here. It is fully natural for a woman to want to look good for her man, and to yearn to please him. When it happens it is a truly beautiful thing for both the man and the woman. This isn’t to say that there aren’t some hard bitten ugly feminists who would never deign to please any man, but that such a woman is far more of a twisted outlier than these men can fathom. This also isn’t to say that even in excellent marriages the wife will always be intent on pleasing her husband. But what these men see as twisted is a truly wonderful thing when it occurs, for both the husband and the wife.
Related:
Simple. These cuckservatives have never, ever had a woman be attracted to them, so they can’t imagine that this happens anywhere.
The same was true with Jim Gay-ratty and his ‘Ward Cleaver is a Stud!’ video.
Plus, Allahpundit is known for being a ‘NeverTrump’ cuckservative of Micha Elyi proportions.
My goodness, the hysterics from the feminine bunch has to be seen to be believed. Although on 1 hand, they are right about something, this picture is certainly far far from reality with most women.
I mean where is her feminist snark for starters ? And the fact she didnt kick him out of the house after christmas.
They would have been fine with it if the sexes were reversed.
Wife: I got you this exercise equipment, get in shape you fat POS!
Husband: Yes, ma’am! [Wife lets out his leash just enough for him to reach equipment and eagerly exercise]
Conservative bloggers: This is a warm, sincere commercial with an underlying Christian message, but I’m disturbed that they’re so white.
To be fair, the woman isn’t fat “pre-Pelaton” and looks the same after the supposed year has passed. They don’t make a good case that she got fit, regardless of her size. Trust me, had she been a bit of a porker, and then was svelte, it would seem more empowering.
Mad_Kalak: had she been a bit of a porker, and then was svelte, it would seem more empowering.
No, because she’d still be exercising for the benefit of her husband. It’s only empowering if she is the sole beneficiary.
If she bought an exercise bike and then ignored her husband, didn’t cook for him, didn’t clean for him, didn’t do anything for him, and instead focused solely on her exercise routine, contrary to her her husband’s wishes — that’s empowering!
There is a creepy subtext here – in Kruiser’s article. From his dark twisted imagination here created a backstory for the ad that has no support in what we see.
“This fictional frightened woman’s yearlong journey to lose the 14 ounces of water weight that her husband the good Doctor Mengele insists she musts is the Christmas miracle that a news-weary world needs. …I feel like there’s a lost scene here right after he gives her the bike where he grabs her by the throat and growls, ‘And you’d better use it.’ Real ‘Sleeping With the Enemy’ vibe in her excessive need to please.”
As Mad Kalak says, she looks very fit, equally so at the start and end of the advert. Perhaps she was running, and the bike allows her to do this regularly – even in the rain and winter.
“none of these men can imagine a wife wanting to please her husband”
She clearly likes the gift, and is grateful for it. But why suppose she is exercising to please her husband? I see nothing implying that in the ad. The odds that a modern US ad agency would produce an advert saying or implying that is, imo, zero. #ThoughtCrime.
The default assumption should be that she is excerising for the reasons modern women do everything – how they dress, when they marry and divorce: to please themselves.
For moment put aside the question of whether wives actually do want to please their husbands or whether they should want to, the question, as a man, is why would I want a wife who doesn’t please me? The opposite of that would be a wife who displease. Why would I ever want that?
Golden Rule of Feminism #1252: “NEVER show gratitude to a husband. You might be indebted to him, and therefore have to repay him with sex”
I looked at this ad and saw a wife who was happy and excited to receive an exercise bike for a present.
As a fitness coach, I tend to eschew indoor, in-house machines. Usually there are too many distractions especially for women, to make the exercise time set aside and the investment in the machine worthwhile. In this case, perhaps the bike suits her. Perhaps she’s been asking for it. Perhaps she’s gone to the mall and longingly looked at it. And the husband has spent his hard-earned cash buying it. What’s the big deal?
But that’s beside the point. I would expect the Bitches of Buzz Feed to say shit like, “Losing weight for him…” and not any conservative commentator. That’s because self centred (Leftist) women are always on about how they “shouldn’t lose weight…to conform to beauty standards’ or “to make themselves look beautiful for someone else” who should “love them unconditionally” or some other excuse to be a lazy Land-Whale.
Regular exercise is a health issue, not a vanity issue.
Obviously these commentators have personal lives with toxic women in them – angry harpies full of ingratitude.
With conservatives like these, who needs radicals?
Eh. I think their mistake is not understanding who the target audience is – it’s the husband who wants to be duped (subconsciously) into thinking that, if he spends an absurd amount on this bike for his wife, she’ll compulsively alternate between riding the bike (developing nice buns) and riding him. When, in reality, in 99% of cases she’ll promptly revert to riding neither.
He should have got her a squat rack
Another underlying message in the commercial which feminists would find offensive is the beauty of the woman’s figure… (Did you see that WHR when she came in the front door? Wowzers!!!) …and the subtle jab against “fat positivity” which insists that it takes work and devotion (to hubby???) to stay trim and fit. If being attractive ever became fashionable again, the cat stroking harpies would be shown for what they are… Ugly! They couldn’t bear that.
Mad_Kalak said: To be fair, the woman isn’t fat “pre-Pelaton” and looks the same after the supposed year has passed. They don’t make a good case that she got fit, regardless of her size. Trust me, had she been a bit of a porker, and then was svelte, it would seem more empowering.
You can be skinny and still be out of shape due to lack of exercise. In fact, the term “skinny fat” refers to a person that has dieted to bring their weight down, but also doesn’t exercise, thus they have no muscle tone.
I’m not sure this ad would have been controversial, even five years ago.
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“Buy Peloton…Be yelled at by a lesbian every morning at 0600.”
I dont know how many people here work out but you will see tons of very attractive women working out. Women can have nice bodys by chance or they can work out and on their figures. Working out to loose weight is one thing but staying in shape is better.
Soon getting a bj while a woman looks you in the eyes will b illegal. She was supposed to get off the bike and with her new fitness Karate kick that patriarch in the throat for crossing her!
I am grateful that my wife wants to please me.
A non-lazy and non-selfish wife is a blessing. Any other kind…. well, I never did marry a Canadian woman.
OT: Doug Wilson lays it out:
https://dougwils.com/books-and-culture/s7-engaging-the-culture/though-it-might-seem-adversarial.html
Larry
There is a creepy subtext here – in Kruiser’s article. From his dark twisted imagination here created a backstory for the ad that has no support in what we see.
Good point. I spy with my little eye some projection on the part of Kruiser. Perhaps a little dark thought from the back of his head – suggesting that maybe it’s ok for a woman to look at a man like that – percolated up in his consciousness, and he had to rave & rant to smack it back down.
I think she’s just excited to get in shape (as has been mentioned). The self filming is kinda weird. And watching the “progress” throughout the year. Must’ve been a knee quaker.
“Here’s me peddling to a film in Boston….and here’s me peddling to a film in Rio…and, and here’s me peddling while a Cuban lady yells at me to go faster…and…”
I want a 3000 dollar stationary bike now!!
JK
The music bed under the advert is Tai Bachman’s “High Above Me”. For those not familiar, here is a YouTube vid with lyrics. I detect a whiff of subliminal subversion, because the target market likely will be familiar with the tune, and the overt pedestalization it contains.
Liz
I think she’s just excited to get in shape (as has been mentioned). The self filming is kinda weird. And watching the “progress” throughout the year. Must’ve been a knee quaker.
Not to make you feel old, but…A lot of Millennials vid themselves on their phone quite a lot, girls do it more, and the target market for the advert wouldn’t find that weird or odd at all. Selfie sticks still exist for a reason.
I’m not sure this ad would have been controversial, even five years ago.
Everything is weaponized now.
Those conservatives are worse than the leftists. At least the leftists don’t pretend to be on your side.
Better an open enemy than a subversive friend.
A lot of Millennials vid themselves on their phone quite a lot, girls do it more, and the target market for the advert wouldn’t find that weird or odd at all.
No one would think it strange to make a video of themselves remaining in one place, peddling repeatedly over time and then make a video montage to watch at the end of the year? I take back what I said about technology and ADHD. If they can watch that, they have far more patience and knack for concentration on the mundane than I.
I take back what I said about technology and ADHD. If they can watch that, they have far more patience and knack for concentration on the mundane than I.
Or something like it. Do a YouTube search on “10 hours”. See what you get. Some people really, really, really like Nyan Cat.
If she really loved him she would have been pedaling naked in all those selfies.
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LP
Everything is
weaponizedstupid now.@Mad_Kalak
She literally does not change physically at all over the course of her year of apparently biking every day. I noticed that too the first time I watched it. She also records herself doing it and whines about getting up at 6 AM to work out. She comes across as a vapid, selfish, slightly clueless woman who probably has an Instagram account she desperately wants to grow.
It’s a weird commercial, but the least of the problems with it is her relationship with her husband. There is NOTHING to suggest he forced the bike on her, or he’s beating her, or whatever. These bloggers reading a bunch of backstory into it are dumb, though. It was a bad idea and the actress isn’t very good. That’s all.
It’s the first commercial in a long time that irritates my husband too. “I’ve dated crazy women like that, it’s all about her.” He can’t figure out why Peloton would run it.
What cucks…
What should the husband have done? Clearly, he should have bought his young daughter we see in the commercial a huge, old-school chemistry set, an electron microscope, and a small library of esoteric medical tomes. Then we could see the daughter taking selfies for an entire year as she launches her STEM career. At the end of the year she would proudly present her astounding discovery to her amazed and overjoyed parents… a pill which acts as both a male contraceptive AND cures breast cancer. Her parents can be seen each taking a pill together, with Jillian Michaels laughing in the background.
It’s hard to be chivalrous if m’lady is grateful and pleasing.
@Hmm
FYI: In America the phrase “lays it out” means “to explain a matter clearly”.
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Notice what Mr. Kruiser intends for this family. He sees a woman trying to please her husband. This allegedly disturbs him enough that he wants to send armed men to initiate the Duluth protocol on them. The protocol will work as designed, leading to divorce. Then Mr. Kruiser intends to swoop in and take the now single wife as his own. Ostensibly he will bond with her over NuStar Wars.
Anyone see how revolting this is? He thinks it is “creepy” for a man to encourage his wife to become beautiful. But he has no compunction about supplanting the man and taking his wife after she is made beautiful.
As far as the wife looking “desperate,” I just see a person who is doing cardio. I know I feel a bit wild-eyed when I run hard. But one look at Mr. Kruiser’s doughface tells me that he has probably never had that experience.
The acceptance and encouragement of women who buck gender norms (the “kickass conservative gal”) is not only common in MAGApede circles, but in dissident or “far” right circles as well. The reason these guys don’t like the idea of women in a submissive position is because they think submissive women will get taken advantage of when they leave home. The fathers know that their daughters will be living outside of their control so they send them to judo practice, get them involved in soccer and other competitive games, and even push them into the military as a way of extending their protective role when they can’t provide it directly. The loss of the father’s legal authority over his daughter is a consequence of feminism, and the way fathers have adapted to it is by inverting the girl’s role, which is a goal of feminism. Both feminists and conservatives, for different reasons, are pushing girls into areas where they are not valued.
The words and phrasing used in the various breathless prose are pretty similar to what girls say to each other.
Story time: I once gave a female friend a ride home from her barmaid job at the end of shift; she’d been riding a bicycle to/from work, and I was with some other friends. I was leaving the friends were not. The fall time change had occurred earlier in the week, so her nearly-dusk bike ride had become a night time ride.
On the way out of the place as I picked up her bike, one of the waitresses hustled up to ask my friend “Are you ok? Is this your friend?”. In the parking lot the next shift was arriving, as I was stashing her bike halfway in the trunk of my car, one of the women asked her if she knew me or not. This is ok, this is part of Team Woman / women’s ingroup preference, it is to be expected. “You are going off with a man I don’t know, is this ok? Is it your choice?” is legit. It’s what women do for each other, in real life. Men check up in a different way, but we do that too.
This is a commercial. It’s play-acting. The woman does a very good job of looking at her pretend husband as though she’s head over heels in love as she very lightly submits to his will. There’s no way the play-acted character can come to harm.
I repeat myself: Kruiser, Allapundit and Green are fluttering like college girls when one of their plainer friends is walking out the door of a night spot with an unknown man. They are worrying about a woman they don’t even know, and they are concerned about a man who is evidently her husband (in the acting that commercials are).
These pundits are emoting like girls. They are being effeminate while at the same time attempting to AMOG without actually being masculine in any way. It is a pathetic display. That is why it is disgusting.
@7817
Subversive indeed. In fact they pretend to be on our side. But work to destroy us.
Perhaps his handlers have blackmail material on people like him so that he obeys.
@AR
Effeminate guys like them shouldnt even get married. Weaklings like them are a disgrace to the male sex.
@ Anonymous Reader
I noticed that as well. Here are some of the lyrics.
The commercial makes the point that the wife is way out of the husband’s league, and that he doesn’t deserve her, but that’s still not enough. She must be an obese contentious, rebellious, ungrateful, ball-busting harpy. Anything “less” than that is unacceptable.
@Anonymous Reader:
Bachman’s song is incredibly Blue Pill.
When the Red Pill gets taken a lot of music gets spoiled. You realise these guys are singing about simping, rock stars are pedophiles and illuminati satanic evil permeates the industry
@ Spike
It’s both. Being healthy and fit makes a person more physically attractive, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
@ Big20s
Agreed.
@ Larry Kummer, Editor
Titus 1:15 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.
If you watch a commercial about a wife who’s excited to get in shape, and thanks her husband for helping her, and you see a “Dr. Mengele” hostage situation, then you’re the weirdo.
If you are always hearing dog whistles then just maybe you are the dog.
Perhaps these gentleman that are seeing such “horrible” subtexts here really aren’t very good people.
If you look at this commercial in terms of obligation, it’s easy to see why so many people hate it. It doesn’t have anything to do with the size/shape/weight of the woman or any backstory about why the husband decided to get her a bike, she could be an triathlete that wanted to exercise at home and the outrage would be just as furious.
What really makes people mad about this commercial is that the woman is expressing happiness and gratitude to her man for providing for her.
Our culture teaches women that if they do anything that benefits a man, it is oppressive. This especially applies to expressing gratitude. Women know that men want to be appreciated. Even though it costs them virtually nothing to express gratitude, women who buy into feminism don’t want to validate men as being helpful or essential in any way. Furthermore, women are expected to be grateful for something a man did, that becomes an obligation that is tantamount to emotional abuse.
Millions? I see a few thousands:
https://www.cheatsheet.com/health-fitness/how-much-does-a-peloton-bike-cost-and-should-you-really-get-one.html/
Maybe it was hyperbole?
@ The_Peter
That’s not quite true. Benefiting her husband is “oppressive”. Benefiting some random dude for a night is “empowering”.
On topic: “The death of the ‘bikini body’ is the best thing to happen to fitness in the past decade”
Right. Because what Americans – 60% of whom are overweight, or obese – really need is even more encouragement to get fat.
No, people didn’t call Kate Upton “fat”. Women called Kate Upton “fat”, mostly due to envy.
What I noticed in that commercial – the woman had a softer, more feminine expression than the women in other exercise bike commercials (they’re usually depicted as kicking ass on the bike as they follow along with the video instructor).
Worst Christmas commercial – the GM one where the man gives himself a truck and his wife a crossover – but the woman insists on taking the truck and the guy gives in.
@Cane:
What I meant is that I thought Wilson explained well the dynamics of the early relationship, the jockeying for position that often occurs in matters that are not Biblical requirements, and how the man loses the woman’s respect by giving in to her too often. Many marriages break down, not over big issues, but over daily routines and annoyances that peck away at satisfaction.
Just as children gain security by knowing where the boundaries are, and which they find by pushing against them, so it is with the woman in marriage. “Can I just do anything I want?” is always a dangerous question to allow into a woman’s mind.
To me the money line was, “…if the only place where you are the head of your home is in the pages of Scripture, you are not actually being a servant leader. A servant wimp is more like it.”
Now Wilson makes it clear that he is writing this to a man whose fiancée is a fully committed Christian. This advice almost certainly won’t work if the woman has one foot in the feminist world.
Which of course makes one wonder at the proportion of such unicorns in his church.
I am convinced that Doug Wilson’s problem isn’t his theology or his position on things.
His problem is that he is obsessed with issuing caveats lest his readers fail to consider the thing that should go without saying.
It’s a bad habit that muddies the waters of his writing, taking the sting of truth out the points he is trying to make.
Do these Churchians think that ingratitude towards the bridegroom and what he’s done for them will go well for them on the Day of Judgement?
It is the bubbling up of their own insecurities. None of these women think that pleasing their husbands has anything to do with marriage. Their husbands are there to please them.
The way the wife looks at her husband as he smiles at the video being played is exactly the kind of look every single man wants from his wife. She adores him and wants to make him happy; and there is nothing wrong with that. If we take the advert at face value, he adores her and wants to make her happy too.. why is this looked down upon?
As turd flinging Monkey said:
If men like it, it is demeaning. If men don’t like it, it is empowering.
You don’t think the videoing of her using the bike and then watching it with her husband at the end and then smiling at him whilst he is smiling watching said video has any implications at all that she was trying to please him?
Ok boomer..
@ Asaph
Again, that’s not entirely true. Plenty of men “like” banging random carousel riders. And plenty of feminists advocate riding the carousel as “empowering”.
But, if a woman does anything specifically to please her husband, that is intolerable.
She comes across as a vapid, selfish, slightly clueless woman who probably has an Instagram account she desperately wants to grow.
It’s a weird commercial…
Apparently the Millennial target market wouldn’t find it weird or odd at all.
Maybe she should do a montage of her daily food next, so they can view it next Christmas.
elspeth
It’s a bad habit that muddies the waters of his writing, taking the sting of truth out the points he is trying to make.
It’s as if he is aware of this habit and does not see it as a problem in his writing. From the linked article provided by Hmm, Wilson’s own words:
“Which brings me to your question, which I hope to answer in a roundabout way.”
“So I will say the hard thing first, then qualify it, and then explain it.”
“Honey, this Christmas I got you a rice cooker!”
“Oh, yay! Here’s my chop suey, and here is chicken and rice…this is my fifth day and it’s spicy shrimp and rice, tee tee! Wait for it…getting up at six to make my rice for the day….”
Just thinking further….the fact everyone is talking about this commercial (me included) probably means it’s a pretty good one. So the joke is on me. 😆
My wife goes out of her way to:
Cook things I like, and when she tries something new and I don’t like it, she never makes it again
Wear clothes that I think are flattering on her
Do her hair the way I like it
Think of thoughtful gifts on Christmas, my birthday, father’s day.
…and so on.
She does not come across as obsequious or clingy. I think its sweet and I wouldn’t trade her for the world.
Everything is stupid now.
I get the idea of a wife wanting to please her husband, and so do many other people. Where there’s cognitive dissonance is that’s supposed to happen in traditional families, like Don Draper’s family in the first seasons of Mad Men. The visuals of the family in the ad is one of upper middle class progressive (although they have kids) in which case “the narrative” is independent feminist wife.
It seems so. Every little advert, every little word, every action now has to be put under a microscope and dissected, lest it be sexist, racist, homophobic or some such.
Scot, you do you, praise God and be with your family, build your little community and be content. The rest of the world is ripe with evil and if one stares into it for too long, can have soul destroying outcome.
You must be new here
There is still a lot of red pill in Rock/metal.
https://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/odor-absorbing-splatter-screen/?catalogId=66&sku=2998193&cm_ven=PLA&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=Cooks%27%20Tools%20%3E%20Splatter%20Screens&cm_ite=2998193&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI09uXkKuc5gIVhsJkCh1xLw8gEAQYAiABEgLCVPD_BwE
My early Christmas gift. I recommend it for folks who cook a lot of bacon. It rocks.
One percent of 3000 dollars.
Wilson’s commentary is the epitome of word salad. He constantly sends mixed messages, and redefines terms.
Wilson’s theology is far off, and is absolutely heretical. Presbyterian circles fought his theology for years. Unfortunately, the larger denominations decided to sit on their hands and refused to act, hoping the problem would just go away. Their silence was interpreted as affirming the federal vision statement as being orthodox, despite committee reports concluding the opposite.
It’s sad that more people (reformed Baptist’s) are adopting it. (Wilson and piper are very similar). It’s a system of works based righteousness. He believes in justification as a muddled process that is lifelong. He believes that the mere act of baptism places you within the faith/elect, which is why they baptize babies. He also believes in a postmil preterist position, which says that the church will conquer evil over time. They literally believe things on earth are getting better, and that as the church advances, they bind more and more evil, until Christ’s ultimate return.
I thought it was only fat chicks who were mad at this ad…sigh.
I’m having a crisis of faith. When WASN’T Christianity cucked? With no divorce, forgiving and encouraging marriage to former promiscuous sluts who somehow will be PURE in marriage, Christianity as interpreted is by nature Matriarchal. Someone please convince me otherwise!
The greater question is: why would a “Christian” willingly muddle his commentary and cause confusion?
Of course, the assumption most make is that he IS NOT a false teacher.
Coming out of self imposed exile to put this here.
Allahpundit:
I don’t mean to read too much into it. All I mean is that there’s a 1,000 percent chance this guy is abusive.
She should sell the bike and use the money to buy a gun, a shovel, and a couple of fake IDs and bus tickets for her and her daughter. By the time anyone notices he’s missing, the two of them will be in Mexico.
So the husband who buys the Peloton for his thin pretty wife is an abuser, and she should murder him.
Tradcons think this isn’t just weird, they think it’s abusive and justification for homicide. Any time a woman wants to please a man, it’s because that man is abusing him. Any time a woman wants to please her husband, it’s because she’s mentally ill.
You know what this is? These are men who’ve never had a woman who truly wanted to please them, and they don’t know what it looks like. These are men who have never been around a happily married woman, and they don’t know what it looks like.
@ Scott:
My wife goes out of her way to:
(do nice things for me)
She does not come across as obsequious or clingy. I think its sweet and I wouldn’t trade her for the world.
But according to people like Allahpundit, it’s because Mychael is mentally ill and you’re kicking the shit out of her nightly.
I just can’t stand it anymore.
Lost Patrol
“Which brings me to your question, which I hope to answer in a roundabout way.”
Reading an essay by Wilson waiting for him to “get to the point” is like thinking about one of Zeno’s paradoxes; first he has to get half way to the point, but before that he has to get a quarter of the way, but before that he has to get an eighth of the way…so he never gets to the point. For some reason or other, Doug Wilson has an obvious aversion to plain speaking and straightforward text that is easy to understand.
Damn Crackers
I thought it was only fat chicks who were mad at this ad…sigh.
Nah, obviously effeminate men who are mentally just as fragile as fat chix are also unhaaaaaapy. This is not our problem, is it? Nope.
@Deti
I admit I quit wasting time with Allahpundit several years ago, so this latest bit is a surprise. He’s really turned into a cranky little mean-girl. The only response stupid text like that deserves is derisive laughter, it is so hyperbolic and bitchy.
AR:
And these are conservative pundits and bloggers. People I’m (nominally at least) aligned with politically and socially on a lot of issues. But they’re sure out to lunch on intersexual relationships. Peak white knighting. THere’s quite the subtext of
“I’ll save you, m’lady! Ditch that bastard and get with me, cuz you’re hot and all that and you deserve better! I’d certainly never treat you like HE does! He can’t love you like I’d love you! How come all the girls won’t date me?! I’m so nice! I’d never buy my girl an exercise bike or a vacuum cleaner or facial hair remover or Pyrex casserole dishes! Cuz that’s just mean and sexist and stuff!”
@ Damn Crackers
Where does the Bible “encourage marriage to former promiscuous sluts”?
I can’t link to them at the moment, but I have several articles on Wilson, one of which highlights his word salad.
@ Lexet:
I meant his theology as it relates to headhsip and marital hierarchy. His word salads (which basically amount to caveats containing common sense stuff that reasonable people of good faith already know) water down all the good he says. Basically making it ineffective for a couple needing help.
Deti
Peak white knighting. There’s quite the subtext of
“I’ll save you, m’lady!
Yeah, painfully obvious beta orbiting. Sorta like this:
But really? Truly? More like this:
@Deti
Or we can go with the whole “tip my fedora to m’lady” meme.
Where in that ad does it say that the husband wanted the wife to lose weight? Maybe he just wanted her to not die of a heart attack because she sits at a desk all day. At the end of the ad she says that the Peloton changed her life, presumably because exercising every day has made her healthier. There certainly is no visible difference in her figure between the beginning and the end of the ad.
I don’t see a desire to please her husband in the ad, either. Just gratitude for an expensive gift that she loves.
Wilson has a problem with logical reasoning. This is a direct result of him following the path of Van Til.
Puritan board and heidelblog have spent a lot of time refuting Wilson and the federal vision.
https://heidelblog.net/2019/07/has-doug-wilson-really-changed-his-mind-about-the-federal-vision/
Is that an admirable quality for a church elder, or is it evidence of a lack of qualification?
gb
because it’s beyond the thinking of conservative white knights to think that a woman would want to look pretty for her husband, or want to please her husband.
They can’t fathom that maybe, just maybe, she asked him for that Peloton exercise bike because she wanted to get in shape and lose weight, not just for her, but for him too, and, well, he bought it for her because he loves her and wanted to get her something she asked for.
She’s wanting to please her husband because she makes a video to document her progress for the purpose of showing it to her husband. She shows it by showing the video to him and seeking his approval.
But it’s bad and evil for a wife to seek her husband’s approval. To today’s modern conservatives, a husband must constantly submit himself to his wife for her approval. He’s not allowed to have any standards for her. He’s not allowed to want or need anything. He’s not permitted to ask her for anything. He’s not allowed to expect anything of her. He’s not allowed to condition the continuation of the relationship on anything at all and especially not on her conduct, deportment, or treatment of him.
So when this is depicted on TV it causes enormous discombobulation among our conservative brethren.
“What IS this? THIS is not how a wife acts to a husband! Wives don’t defer to their husbands and they certainly don’t spend time trying to please him or look good for him! Women just don’t act like this! THey’re not supposed to act like this!
Something’s wrong here. He’s making her do this. He’s abusing her. He’s holding her hostage. She’s mentally ill. She suffers from sin – she’s not being true to herself, or she has low self esteem, and that’s HIS fault!”
The stock market traders noticed the Peloton advert.It’s already being memed. Here’s the NY Times take – speaking of over-the-top, a comparison to “Black Mirror”, really? Seriously?
There’s a whole lotta special snowflakes out there.
My view:
1. It’s an exercise bike – how expensive can that be for people who on the basis of the ad are well off. This obsession with jogging or cycling such that women end up putting on muscle and thus looking like trannies is not to my taste. Slim woman by day; plump woman by night is my motto.
2. The actress (who is not very convincing) and looks to me a bit like the awful Meghan Markle is sooooooooooooooooooooooo annoying. That voice (for me) grates grates grates, and worse still it grates. This might be because she is American.
3. I missed the bit where she thanked her husband. If I bought my woman an exercise bike (which I know she would never get on) I would expect much more in the way of thanks – like when I brought in a very large bouquet of flowers which naturally she assumed was for her when in fact although it was I had not in fact purchased but had been gifted at work for the excellence of my legal advice – naturally i said nothing but basked in kisses. Women likes flowers not bikes.
The stock market traders noticed the Peloton advert.It’s already being memed. Here’s the NY Times take – speaking of over-the-top, a comparison to “Black Mirror”, really? Seriously?
The stock is still up bigly for the month.
https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/pton
It would violate my rules to buy the stock of a product I think far overpriced, and I know nothing about, but if I were a betting person and had some “play” money, I’d buy it about now.
Judging by what happens with the “woke” market, there is profit in the anti-woke.
It’s an exercise bike – how expensive can that be for people who on the basis of the ad are well off.
$2000 and up. I’m sure there is a market for that, I just don’t think it’s very big. I paid a fraction of that for my Schwinn AirDyne.
At this point in time having a Peloton exercise bike is a status symbol. That’s what he gave her. Cheaper than a Lexus or a BMW, but still a status symbol, something she can brag about to her friends.
But as Scott said, everything is stupid now. It has been a huge incentive to not have cable. Even watching sportsball for free (with an antenna) is becoming painful as the adverts are mind numbing when they aren’t outright insulting.
because it’s beyond the thinking of conservative white knights to think that a woman would want to look pretty for her husband, or want to please her husband.
One does not look pretty for nor try to please the Servant (leader).
Go to the 25 second mark.
@Boris
Not every dad who puts his girl in soccer or Judo or teaches them to shoot is doing it for the “kick ass” girl reasoning. Competition is good for kids, it sharpens them, and knowing self defense is inherently good in a dangerous world. Yes, it *could* amp up her natural hypergamy, but that is a trade-off.
@DC.
Christianity does not encourage marriage to former promiscuous sluts. Christianity does not encourage marriage to anyone. We are told that marriage will bring difficulties, that it is better to remain single but if we can’t control ourselves many (most?) of us should marry rather than burn. However, no one can tell us what criteria we can and can’t apply in selecting a wife (e.g. “no ex-sluts”).
Who cares how Christianity is interpreted by 21st century progressives/feminists? We have 2000 years of Christian history that proves them wrong.
Maybe I’m alone in noticing how utterly a ridiculous this commercial is as written and presented.
What motivation would ANY American wife and mother of children have to lose weight and maintain a slender feminine figure? And then vlog it?
Exactly.
The only wives and mothers truly motivated to do this – and to this extent – are those either preparing to detonate their own marriage through no fault divorce, or they have already pulled the pin and are bathing in the attention and fempowered euphoria.
The husband character in this commercial is irrelevant.
I’m surprised that Kruiser and Green and some of you missed the excruciating Great American beta -bucks-cuckhold female pedestalization anthem playing in the background of this ad, namely Tal Bachman’s She’s So High (Above Me!)
Lyrics:
She’s blood, flesh and bone
No tucks or silicone
She’s touch, smell, sight, taste, and sound
But somehow I can’t believe
That anything should happen
I know where I belong
And nothing’s going to happen, yeah
‘Cause she’s so high
High above me
She’s so lovely
She’s so high
Like Cleopatra
Joan of Arc
or Aphrodite
Da-da-da-da-da
She’s so high
High above me
First class and fancy free
She’s high society
She’s got the best of everything
What could a guy like me
Ever really offer
She’s perfect as she can be
Why should I even bother
‘Cause she’s so high
High above me
She’s so lovely
She’s so high
Like Cleopatra
Joan of Arc
or Aphrodite
Da-da-da-da-da
She’s so high
High above me
She comes to speak to me
I freeze immediately…
@ Spike
“When the Red Pill gets taken a lot of music gets spoiled. You realise these guys are singing about simping, rock stars are pedophiles…”
I thought I was the only one who experienced this. LoL
@Oscar@Bruce – I agree that most of these admonitions in sexual matters occur from an age when girls were married off around 13 or 14 and boys at 17 or 18. So, it was much easier to marry a virgin bride than a “harlot.”
BTW, there were many instances of reforming prostitutes in the Late Middle Ages by marrying them off. “During the later medieval period the Christian notion of the ‘reformed prostitute’ took hold, fueled by the cults of Saint Mary of Egypt and Mary Magdalene, and public opinion softened towards whores. Instead of being women to be reviled, these women were now the subject of charity, and public funds were set up to assist women trying to escape a life of sex work.”
Ruth Mazo Karras, Common Women: Prostitution and Sexuality in Medieval England.
It is so abusive towards women to restrict them from happy marriages. Imagine telling men that working out, making money and being confident is a bad abusive thing. Oh, wait, (((they))) do say that as well. The entire edifice of society is being built on blinding people from how to become better or how to do the work that will make them happy in the long run. It’s bizarre, like telling dog owners that their dachshund or husky is happier locked in a room all day and letting it run around is dog abuse.
A common Redpill opinion on getting invested in the game is that, in some ways, it’s easier than ever because even common sense self improvement is being shamed and a lot of people actually believe the bs. A weak runner will still outpace a population that believes in running backwards. A smart woman who wants to snag a good husband only needs to be thin, know when to be quiet and able to read and perform from a cookbook and she’ll be waaay ahead of the pack. I don’t know how reliably women break away from the pack in pursuit of their own wants compared to men, however.
FH
Kind words, bother. Merry Christmas.
Yup, not worshiping the woman will feel really weird to us [if not offensive] since everyone alive has done it all their lives.
Give her a gift certificate for speech therapy to eliminate her vocal fry.
Competition is good for kids, it sharpens them
We’re talking about girls here. Why is competition good for them? What do they need sharpened? Their minds so they can get straight A’s en route to university?
Competitive sports is masculine because there are winners and losers determined by physical strength and agility. That has no reproductive utility for a woman. Playing competitive sports doesn’t make women fertile or help them develop the nurturing skills to raise kids.
Girls in competitive activities is an inversion of nature and was pushed by feminists in the 70s and 80s in public schools. Before the 70s, the only physical activity girls did in school was gymnastics.
knowing self defense is inherently good in a dangerous world.
This is the major reason fathers get their daughters into this stuff. They can’t coordinate their wishes with their daughters’ behavior because they do not have control over them. It’s the next best thing (in their minds) to being physically present beside the daughter.
@ Damn Crackers
You didn’t answer my question. Where does the Bible “encourage marriage to former promiscuous sluts”?
@ Boris (@Protagoris7788)
The average woman (and man) in the USA is a land whale. Sports should be the least of your worries.
That’s because of their poor diets. Why are obesity rates relevant?
@ Boris (@Protagoris7788)
Gosh, I don’t know. Maybe there’s some vague correlation between exercise and obesity. Nah. Couldn’t be.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/aug/28/young-at-heart-why-children-who-exercise-become-healthier-adults
On topic: Peloton says it is ‘disappointed’ so many misread its much-maligned holiday ad
https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/lifestyle-buzz/peloton-says-it-is-disappointed-so-many-misread-its-much-maligned-holiday-ad/ar-BBXLFYp?li=AA578N
So far, it seems as though Peloton knows and respects their customer base more than Chick-fil-A does.
Gosh, I don’t know.
Obesity rates have risen in tandem with girls participating in team sports – they didn’t have girls’ collegiate and high school basketball and soccer leagues back in the 1960s when girls, and people in general, were thinner on average. So. I don’t know what retarded boomer argument you’re trying to make. These teams don’t exist to promote physical fitness anyway.
@ Boris (@Protagoris7788)
It’s a very simple argument. Developing the habits that make and keep a person physically fit, like exercise, is half the battle. If one develops those habits early, they’re more likely to stick, and trying to develop those habits later in life is far more difficult, and less likely to work.
One who is incapable of understanding such a straight-forward argument backed by empirical data probably shouldn’t go around projecting the “retarded” label onto others.
Drs. Dunning and Kruger, please call your office.
There is only one way to lose weight, and that is to remove carbohydrates from your diet. Sorry, there is no other way. Exersise won’t save you.
@ tkatchev
Who said anything about doing one and not the other? Shockingly, a combination of diet and exercise is best for losing weight.
Besides, losing weight should not be ones only goal. As people age, they naturally lose muscle mass and bone density. That leads to serious health, and quality of life issues in late life. Limiting carbohydrates won’t help a person improve, or maintain their muscle mass, or bone density. Strength training does.
a straight-forward argument backed by empirical data
The amount of girls playing high school sports increased 940% from 1971-72 to 2007-08, while the percentage of obese women more than doubled during that time according to the line graph you showed us. In the 1960s very few girls played sports in high school and yet the population of women did not suffer from obesity so there’s no correlation between girls playing sports and obesity rates. You can exercise without playing sports.
You seem to think the purpose of girls playing games where they land face-first on muddy fields is “exercise,” but it’s not and never was. It’s about achieving equality with boys.
https://web.archive.org/web/20111114061928/http://www.aauw.org/act/laf/library/athleticStatistics.cfm
@Oscar, I agree with you everything you have said, 2-3 times a week exercise of 30-60 mins is essential throughout our life, this used to be normal as you needed to do stuff to live.
My last GF exercised 3 times\week, and I have to say, the results were impressive 😀
Never get into a long term relationship with a women who dosnt want to exercise frequently, as in todays society she will blimp up faster than a puffer fish.
@Boris, your putting the cart before the horse. The fact that x10 more girls exercise now and are fatter than ever, its because they saw this in the school system and therefore tried and failed to intervene early.
But as most women are lazy shi8s, who would rather sit in front of social media and stuff their face, plough their way through 10 dress sizes than ever exercise (or even consider it). As that’s a manly thing and men are baddddddddd.
@ Boris (@Protagoris7788)
And yet, during that time, the kids (both male and female) who were less likely to be obese, were the same ones who played sports. That is still the case today.
So, understanding that obesity is a major problem in the USA, and since I live in the USA, I’d much rather develop good habits in my kids (like healthy eating, and exercise) in childhood, rather than let them figure it out in adulthood, or – like most of their peers – never. And sports are an empirically proven method to do that.
If you have a better method to instill those good habits in your kids, more power to you.
They sure did.
Magdalene Laundries in Ireland
Girls and Sport
This is how it was: we boys played Soccer every chance we had and the girls stood around nattering. Every now and then the girls would start Kiss-chase which disrupted the Soccer. When we grew tired of kicking a ball we would persuade one or other of the girls to jump off a wall thus revealing as their skirt flew up, their knickers.
In those days just after rationing ended (Americans would not know about rationing) no one was fat.
Interesting point to this commercial – at NO point, is the husband getting this for her to lose weight. Perhaps she uses it for stress management, post-partum depression, BDNF (See Robin Sharma for this), etc. But the immediate cuckservatives jump to “he’s oppressing her!!”, never even thinking that his intentions are good – or perhaps she even ASKED for it because the live in a remote area for HER career. There’s a 1000 possibilities, and it’s interesting that the only negative ones focus on HIM controlling HER.
I hiked the Appalachian Trail (Georgia to Maine, ~2167 miles) a little over a decade ago, in my mid-40s. this took me around 8 months. While eating whatever I wanted and as much as I wanted, I lost close to 70 pounds. I got to where I was routinely doing 13-mile days up and down mountains with a full pack, with 3 days over 18 miles. So, no one can tell me that a pure exercise program can’t lose the weight.
Off topic: Ms. Stone, meet your biological clock.
https://www.eonline.com/news/1029700/emma-stone-is-engaged-to-dave-mccary
In other news, 90% of a woman’s eggs are dead by the age of 30.
https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/OnCall/women-fertility-falls-lose-90-percent-eggs-30/story?id=9693015
I’m sure that’s a coincidence.
In those days just after rationing ended (Americans would not know about rationing) no one was fat.
Opus, meet my parents the wartime kids. Parents, this is Opus. He had rationing too.
http://www.ameshistory.org/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/rationing_book1.jpg?itok=WBs8R1eO
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/students-teachers/student-resources/research-starters/take-closer-look-ration-books
@boris
If you want to complain about title 9, you will get no disagreement from me, but your foolish to think that sport and competition in girls doesn’t develop character. Likewise, even band competition does. Women are not just for breeding.
As for self defense, it is impossible for a father to always be there to physically protect a child, not to mention that they grow up and you grow old.
@Oscar – “You didn’t answer my question. Where does the Bible “encourage marriage to former promiscuous sluts”?”
The whole book of Hosea. Also, Rahab married and is an ancestor to Jesus.
Many commentators interpret St. Paul in 1 Cor 6:11 to mean that fallen women were among the early Corinthian Church.
“And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”
I know what you’re saying and yes, nowhere does it specifically say to go and marry a harlot (excepting Hosea), but you’re making my point. Who can now find a nice virginal woman in this fallen world? It’s either “Marry up those sluts!” or celibacy. Recent polls suggest 85% of self-professed Christians have had pre-marital sex. So all choices in modern Christianity lead to what some call fornication, “Marry up those sluts!”, or celibacy.
Shockingly, a combination of diet and exercise is best for losing weight.
That’s like saying “winning the lottery and penny pinching is the best for getting rich”.
Exercise is fun, it feels good and makes you feel accomplished and energetic. Kicking carbohydrates sucks – it makes you sad, it’s a drag on your life, it lowers your self-esteem.
Of course there’s a tendency to rationalize it away and pretend like exercise is what will solve the obesity epidemic. (Just because it’s fun doesn’t mean it’s effective.)
Pro tip: it won’t, you need to bite the bullet and change your diet, your diet is 99% of why you’re obese.
Random OT, for those interested:
My spouse just got back from training and apparently the grounding of the Max has cost the airlines as much or more than 911. SWA still making a profit though…they are a great company.
Like Oscar, also off topic. Journalism is a fertility sink for women.
Journalist, attractive, freelance, London-based, “never found the Mr Right” to have babies with, but found plenty of “Mr Right-Now” partners. Dad dies (mother died in her early 20s), she decides to go it alone having a baby – aged 43! Much expense later, no baby.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/01/i-found-the-perfect-sperm-donor-but-i-never-got-my-happy-ending-8093804/
Still, I’m sure the memory of all those nice restaurants, men, parties and Prosecco bottles will be a comfort to her ten years on, ne c’est pas?
“Not having a baby is easily the worst thing that has ever happened to me. Easily. Because it is so hard to bear and move on from. It’s not just – ‘just’ – the visceral pain of not having had a child (I feel that physical/soul/heart ache every day, and dream about babies – holding their warm, chubby bodies – almost every night) but everything else that that loss means. It means you have no lineage (no Little Bibi – which, actually, was my name because Mum was Bibi too) and no place in society. It seems.”
https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/14/can-you-get-over-not-having-children-when-you-really-wanted-to-have-children-8132273/
@Hugh Mann – Interesting story. I wonder if the much later fertility rate of Western women will lead to offspring with much higher mutant loads leading to a literal dystopia (e.g., Idiocracy).
Most of what makes people athletic/healthy/fit or whatever is genetic. Even the motivation to do so.
I think fitness is mostly habit.
A fit family instills the habit in their children so those children are more likely to be fit also.
Saw something about morning exercisers staying with it more than evening exercisers. Think that goes into habit pattern too….lots of distractions in the evening can interfere with the habit pattern, which isn’t so much the case when one wakes up early just to exercise.
Most of what makes people athletic/healthy/fit or whatever is genetic. Even the motivation to do so.
I don’t know man. When you look at how things have changed over the last 100 years, as far as obesity rates, the theory that genetics are everything doesn’t completely fit. Genetics matter a lot, but there’s got to be something more to the story.
I’ve got an older relative that told me when he was in high school there weren’t any fat girls there. There was 1 (one) that was slightly plump.
7187
I think it’s just as likely that the aggregated interaction of environment and genes over time is rapidly selecting (speeding up natural evolutionary processes) for laziness, apathy and lack of motivation on a macro scale.
And apparently also for dyslexia
Damn Crackers – I think the dystopia of mutation loads is as nothing (in the UK) to the dystopia of high immigrant fertility. For every Bibi Lynch (the author) there are several dozen pram-pushing headscarves.
Ms Lynch is still grieving … I suppose its a living, writing misery-lit. But it’s a senseless waste of an attractive, intelligent life.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/grieving-child-never-had-hurts-losing-parents/
I dream about this person every night. Every single night. I think about them when I’m awake, too. Not constantly, but definitely a few times a day. Something will be said that makes me think of them, how much I need them, and how I wish I could hold them, and I have to physically or mentally withdraw until I’m okay again. This has been going on for almost 10 years. Not that they died 10 years ago. They weren’t even born 10 years ago. That’s the point: they weren’t born at all.
I thought I knew grief.
@ Damn Crackers
False. God told Ezekiel to lay on one side for 390 days. He never told you to lay on your side for 390 days. Likewise, God told Hosea to marry a harlot. He never told you to marry a harlot.
Do you understand the difference between descriptive and prescriptive? Just because the Bible tells you that something happened, doesn’t mean that you should do it. Lot had sex with both his daughters. Does that mean you should have sex with your daughters?
There surely were fallen women in the Corinthian Church, just as there were fallen men in the Corinthian Church. Can you show me a scripture in which the Apostle Paul commands a man (fallen or otherwise) to marry a fallen woman?
Not even close.
Have you not read the Bible?
Proverbs 31:10 Who can find a virtuous wife?
For her worth is far above rubies.
Do you know what makes rubies precious? They’re rare. If rubies were as common as gravel, they’d be worth what gravel is worth. Even in Solomon’s day, a virtuous wife was as rare as rubies.
No kidding. Have you not read the Bible?
Matthew 19:10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”
11 But He said to them, “All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: 12 For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it.”
If a man can’t find his ruby, then it may be better for them to not marry. He’s been made a eunuch by circumstances.
In the end, you pointed to exactly zero scriptures where the Bible “encourages marriage to former promiscuous sluts”, because no such scripture exists.
@ tkatchev
That’s a very nice straw man you got there.
@ Liz
That’s obviously true. Like I said above, building healthy habits is probably the most difficult part of getting healthy and fit. Something as simple as getting up early and walking for half an hour every day can help a person get started down that path.
I don’t know man. When you look at how things have changed over the last 100 years, as far as obesity rates, the theory that genetics are everything doesn’t completely fit.
I googled “graduation photo 1900”
The first picture is a high school graduation, and is typical of the pictures I found. Notice the lack of overweight people, much less obese.
The second one is from a college graduation. Notice how masculine and just adult looking the men are. These men are around 22 years old, yet by modern standards they look closer to 30. Whether that was due to dress style or higher T levels, I don’t know.
Human genetics hasn’t changed much (if at all) in 120 years. There’s got to be some exterior force (chemical, lifestyle, etc…) causing modern obesity and the testosterone (dare I call it) crisis.
One more try on the photo links:
I don’t know man. When you look at how things have changed over the last 100 years, as far as obesity rates, the theory that genetics are everything doesn’t completely fit.
I googled “graduation photo 1900”
The first picture is a high school graduation, and is typicial of the pictures I found. Notice the lack of overweight people, much less obese.
The second one is from a college graduation. Notice how masculine and just adult looking the men are. These men are around 22 years old, yet by modern standards they look closer to 30. Whether that was due to dress style or higher T levels, I don’t know.
https://suny.buffalostate.edu/sites/suny.buffalostate.edu/files/styles/hompage-slideshow/public/image/1900-2.jpg?itok=witIG5lX
Human genetics have changed much (if at all) in 120 years. There’s got to be some exterior force (chemical, lifestyle, etc…) causing modern obesity and the testosterone (dare I call it) crisis.
From my comment above, photos didn’t take.
photo 1: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/53/12/ea/5312ead5602c9ae1a61e662b924c8314.jpg
photo 2: https://suny.buffalostate.edu/sites/suny.buffalostate.edu/files/styles/hompage-slideshow/public/image/1900-2.jpg?itok=witIG5lX
@ Otto
I just searched for “graduation photo 1960”, and it’s pretty much the same. The change happened in about 60 years, not 120.
This parody sums up the typical response well:
video/1
I notice that the woman making the parody has no husband. But she does have a cat.
Pelaton’s problem is that the very premise of the ad breaks the first rule of Christmas present giving which is, “Never buy your woman a gift that comes with a power cord.”
@Liz says:”Random OT, for those interested:
My spouse just got back from training and apparently the grounding of the Max has cost the airlines as much or more than 911. ”
Now that is interesting, but arn’t they suing boeing for loss of income ? Or is it mostly the pilots that have taken the hit in salary ?
I have to say, boeing should just sack up, pay SWA the $1M per plane and just train the damm pilots properly.
They should remove MCAS software and rebrand the max as ‘neo’. That will teach them for firing 5000 long experienced engineers in 2015.
This is when you need these guys – expensive though they are. Boeing is transitioning from an engineering company to one that seems to have nothing but screw ups. They can only go so far down this road.
Airbus is kicking their ass.
@Oscar, RE;90% egg loss by 30, on 1 hand that dosnt really matter, they can only chuck 1 a month anyway, so a hundred are required ? And they prob have alot more than that !
I’ve had female friends who were infertile by 18, which was a tragedy as she was an absolute beauty as well, others at 25 – quite a few.
Fertility can be a vanishing short window for women, and infertility seems to have a tragic effect on them. But hey ! she got her career to fall back on – mahahaahahahah.
@drbeagle, that account is hilarious – hard to tell if its feminist parody or not – or just your standard 3rd wave feminist who has hit the wall, wonder what she will be posting in 10 years ?
Now that is interesting, but arn’t they suing boeing for loss of income ? Or is it mostly the pilots that have taken the hit in salary ?
It’s the pilot’s union that are suing, not the company. But they haven’t taken a salary hit either. It’s really surprising.
@Liz, the pilots union is suing but they havnt taken a salary hit either ? so why they suing?
Yeah I have no idea. They are very well paid. I guess they’re suing for hypothetical earnings th why might have made (profit sharing). We don’t support it
It’s a class thing.
The Lower-class man wants to make a slave of his woman.
The Middle-class man wants to be a slave to his woman.
The Upper-class man wants to provide a slave for his woman.
None of these conservatives are upper-class, thus cannot afford to provide a slave for their woman. They need to signal their middle class status to distinguish themselves from their lower-class counterparts.
Thus, conservative middle-class “happy wife, happy life – she’s the boss!” and the ostentatious displays of submission to their women.
The wives of wealthy men will put up with nearly anything, including constant cheating with younger women, and still be quite thankful for the servants and other benefits their husbands provide.
In fact the only time they will divorce is if their husband publicly humiliates them by not being discreet with the mistress.
“Conservatism” including “churchianity” is little more than social signaling by middle class men desperate to not be seen as lower-class.
Yeah I’m not sure why, they are very well paid. I guess they are suing for hypothetical earnings they might have otherwise made from profit sharing or something. We don’t support it, I don’t want to see Boeing go under. The grounded maxes are serviced pretty much every day. It’s not good to let airplanes sit without running them
@Oscar – You remind me of those people who call President Trump a liar when he says something like “My White House decorations are the best!”
If you are correct, what do you do with “those promiscuous sluts?”
You said, “If a man can’t find his ruby, then it may be better for them to not marry. He’s been made a eunuch by circumstances.” If I argued literally like you, I’d have to ask what circumstance took a knife and cut off that man’s c*ck?
I tried being civil with you, but I assume you know for certain your wife was a virgin when you married her or your 7 kids are all yours.
@ drbeagle
Yep. You gotta love it when crazy cat ladies identify themselves.
Good thing I bought my wife one of these, instead.
No, really. I bought her a Concept 2 rower. From Kuwait.
@Oscar – You say, “In the end, you pointed to exactly zero scriptures where the Bible “encourages marriage to former promiscuous sluts”, because no such scripture exists.”
BUT, you also say this:
Do you know what makes rubies precious? They’re rare. If rubies were as common as gravel, they’d be worth what gravel is worth. Even in Solomon’s day, a virtuous wife was as rare as rubies.
It’s either “Marry up those sluts!” or celibacy. Recent polls suggest 85% of self-professed Christians have had pre-marital sex. So all choices in modern Christianity lead to what some call fornication, “Marry up those sluts!”, or celibacy.
No kidding. Have you not read the Bible?
So in the end, you agree with me. If virtuous women are rare, you have one of three choices. You even say, “No kidding.” So from logic if you don’t encourage marrying sluts, your only choices left are fornication or celibacy. THIS IS ACCORDING TO YOU. From your own words you admit the Bible leaves us with these choices. Those who wish not to fornicate or be celibate must “marry up those sluts,” which many here on this blog are sickened by from my recollection.
I just searched for “graduation photo 1960”, and it’s pretty much the same. The change happened in about 60 years, not 120.
I can name a half dozen things off the top of my head that contributed to the obesity and low-T crises post 1960.
1: Low fat/high carb diet recommendations (focus on heart rather than full body).
2: Emphasizing cardio (again, focus on heart) over weightlifting/full-body stress exercise.
3: Sedentary work becoming more prominent.
4: Sedentary leisure more prominent (TV, video games, computer).
5: Sugar consumption (HFCS isn’t worse than table sugar, but it’s so danged cheap that it has enabled manufacturers to put it in everything).
6: Fast-food/lack-of-home-cooked-meals (can be tied directly to the rise of women in the work force and the breakdown of marriage/family).
7: Soy consumption (see chart for soybean oil consumption)
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/pelotons-stock-price-plummet-wiped-942-million-market-value-holiday-ad-2019-12-1028737428
She lost more than weight…
@ Damn Crackers
What do I do with “those promiscuous sluts”? Nothing. They’re not my responsibility.
What do you do with “those promiscuous sluts”? Nothing. They’re not your responsibility. What makes you think you need to “do” anything with them?
If I was arguing literally, I wouldn’t have used Jesus’ metaphor of a man being made a eunuch, would I?
It’s nine kids, actually. And five are adopted, so no, not all of them are biologically mine, or my wife’s for that matter.
Look, you literally asked someone to convince you that Christianity does not “encourage marriage to former promiscuous sluts”. I got you to admit that no such Scripture exists. Obviously, false teachers can twist the Scriptures to say whatever they want the Scriptures to say, but that twisting is precisely what makes them false teachers.
A reasonable man does not judge a thing by its abuse. Don’t judge Christianity by false teachers’ abuse of the Scriptures.
The Holy Spirit, through the Apostle Paul, stated very plainly:
1 Cor 7:26 I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress—that it is good for a man to remain as he is: 27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28 But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you.
Your state and mine are very different. I will serve the Lord by doing what I can to raise Godly sons and daughters. The Lord will judge me on that account.
You serve the Lord your own way (whatever that may be, I don’t know your situation). He will judge you on that account. If you find a Godly woman to be your help, praise God! I’ll rejoice on your behalf. If you don’t then you are more free to serve God in more ways that I ever could.
1 Cor 7:32 But I want you to be without care. He who is unmarried cares for the things of the Lord—how he may please the Lord. 33 But he who is married cares about the things of the world—how he may please his wife.
Don’t let false teachers place burdens on you that God did not.
I go to the super high end gym here in town, because Mychael’s nursing job provides membership there as a perk.
All of the super fit/hot women there who are in the 30-50 range drive up to the gym in monster-expensive SUVs and such. They have perfect hair and workout clothes. They work out for like two hours at a time. And they give off ZERO friendly vibe.
Working out and dieting to the point where you are sculpting the last .0000009 ounces off this one part of your forearm is for UMC people.
Not sure what that, if anything has to do with the work out conversation. Just an observation.
@Otto and others.
Testosterone levels in men, at least in the industrialized world, have been in decline for decades. Some labs have redefined “normal” T because so many men are below normal. A lot of factors are probably at work, but one hasn’t been mentioned here yet; endocrine disruptors. These are organic compounds that can have estrogenic effects in vivo. They are found in some cosmetics, some plastics including plastic food wrap and lining containers as well as in plastic bottles. Also in some fire prevention compounds, in some stain resisting compounds in fabrics, and many other odd places.
https://infogalactic.com/info/Endocrine_disruptor
The ongoing decline in sperm counts among men in the industrialized world may be related.
John O. said: She [Peloton] lost more than weight…
The power of cancel culture.
It’s dangerous to go against the feminist narrative. Hence the reason so many “conservatives” (from preachers to politicians to commentators) toe the feminist line.
It actually more dangerous for a man to be against the feminist narrative of the strong, independent woman than it is to be against abortion?
People say abortion is the left’s ultimate dogma–the one thing they will never give an inch on. Nope. The left’s ultimate dogma is the strong, independent woman who doesn’t need a man and who doesn’t need to please a man. Abortion just fits into that narrative–if she doesn’t need a man (or have to worry about what he thinks) she doesn’t need his baby or worry what he thinks about keeping it or aborting it. It’s her decision alone.
The strong, independent woman narrative is now so pervasive that it can be said to be dogma for conservatives as well.
@Oscar – “Don’t let false teachers place burdens on you that God did not.”
Thank you. That is the type of answer I’ve been looking for. I think much of Christianity has fallen to this trend. BTW, congrats on your big family.
I think the problem with arguing online is that a lot of the subtleties of conversation do not come through, which leads to a lot of misunderstanding.
John O.
She [Peloton] lost more than weight…
Meh.
PTON went public about 2 months ago, and has had a nice run in November. Stock price was probably due for a pullback. I doubt that a sufficient number of outraged feminists plus offended hipsters, etc. ran out and sold stock in two days to cause the drop. It wasn’t insiders either. Many other equities have dropped in the last few days as well. Since PTON does not pay a dividend, profit taking after a nice run might be one factor.
https://finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=pton&ty=c&ta=1&p=d
Correlation is not necessarily indicating causation.
The strong, independent woman narrative is now so pervasive that it can be said to be dogma for conservatives as well.
Yes, that can be seen in the articles Dalrock is citing. What does “conservative” mean now?
Peleton had a commerical in 2018 where the husband gave the wife one for Christmas. I don’t remember any outrage.
Only difference I can see is the wife successfully fooled the husband so maybe that kept the feminist harpies at bay.
Or maybe we’re one year woker.
I like the 2018 commercial better.
Peloton seems to be a type of Veblen good.
Not the type of market that wants to see a fat sweaty person on a bike.
If there is a market for that sort of thing.
It is quite sad that these faux conservatives don’t seem to understand that marriage is not being shackled to a ball-and-chain. It’s becoming a chain shot where you both use your momentum to keep striving upwards. Besides, you get what you put in; it’s the golden rule. You want your partner to be happy and healthy, so you should be too.
Speaking of things causing people to be overweight:
Birth control pills may be making part of your brain smaller
After comparing brain scans of all the women side-by-side, they found those who took birth control pills had a significantly smaller hypothalamus than those who did not. …The hypothalamus controls important functions of the body like hormone production, mood, appetite, sex drive, heart rate, and sleep cycles.
Appetite; as in controls appetite; as in knowing when you have eaten enough?
Forgot the link for above: https://www.businessinsider.com/birth-control-pills-may-make-part-of-your-brain-smaller-2019-12?amp%3Butm_medium=referral
Peloton seems to be a type of Veblen good. Not the type of market that wants to see a fat sweaty person on a bike.
When you reach a certain level of any endeavor, the quality of your equipment becomes important.
A Martin D-28 acoustic guitar (the holy grail of bluegrass guitars) will set you back 3 grand. You can buy a perfectly serviceable acoustic guitar for a fraction of that. But, if you’re at the top of your craft; if playing acoustic guitar is your thing, then popping the extra money to get what is (in your mind) the best equipment makes sense.
Peloton markets itself as being a top-tier, elite product. The people buying it either consider themselves top-tier, elite exercisers (or want to be), or they have more money than they know what to do with.
interesting reads
https://www.kirkdurston.com/blog/unwin
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mYpLDHbhwqUmzFBe6hOEgW1wTfplL8SF/view
Woe to those who call good evil and evil good
@Oscar
I think what Boris had in mind is soccer,rugby and hockey when he talked about women in competitive sports.
Not gymnastics,dancing,figure skating and so forth that also likewise exercise the body.
DC,
Most women file for the divorces, so no fault divorce favors them. Most men do not want to leave even bad wives. You may want to pick better targets.
No Oscar, DC has not really read the Bible. He just takes selective quotes and rants against it.
He will learn that God doesn’t accept such foolish logic in the future, but hopefully he repents before that point.
@ Damn Crackers
Thanks, brother. I’m glad we could arrive at some kind of understanding.
Please understand that I made a conscious decision to not talk about my family’s problems when I started commenting here, but we have plenty of challenges. Between a long military career, multiple deployments, adoption, having biological children, etc., the challenges have been overwhelming at times.
The single man has his troubles, and the married man has his troubles. Either way, we serve the Lord. Let’s not take on more responsibility than that which the Lord has given us. The responsibilities He gives us are more than enough.
God bless you, brother.
An Apology
I obviously like this blog and yet I have far too often wondered whether my comments are at cross-purposes. Take this blog entry: I was lost as to what could be so offensive about the video. I am linking therefore what I think an excellent video by one of your fellow countrymen and his significant other (sooooo American) which sets out 101 differences between America and England. I agree with almost all of their observations at least in so far as I am aware of the given phenomenon and have the knowledge to form an opinion. There are other differences: they make no observations for example as to the very different attitudes as to religion, indeed I suspect that they are merely scratching the surface of the myriad distinctions between our respective countries; the attitude as to exercise generally for example which so far as I could tell even when Stateside was entered upon with an almost religious fervour. Over here people don’t care so much (and that was I recall as true amongst those who played sports as those who did not) perhaps because we walk a lot and enjoy doing so even when all we are doing is going round in a circle. I thought the video fascinating and I hope you won’t find it less so and that in the future my apparent stupidities will be taken not for innate foolishness but genuine incomprehension.
Most women file for the divorces, so no fault divorce favors them. Most men do not want to leave even bad wives. You may want to pick better targets.
One of the most powerful truths I ever read from TRM was “men love idealistically, women love opportunistically.”
This one quote, as painful as it is to hear–as totally upside-down from what the entire culture teaches–caused about 98% of what has happened to me, and what I have observed in other broken relationships make sense.
There is no aggregated “fear of commitment” among men. And if there is, it is a conditioned response from them at this point.
I know there are those who are averse to anything social media related, but take a gander at today’s crazy from facebook, shared by a “traditionalist” woman friend of ours.
THIS IS WHAT MEN FEAR. In particular, note married “TO THE WRONG GUY” as if this is a thing.
There is no “wrong guy.” There is “the guy you are married to” and that’s it.
Hallmark movies are a steady diet in the lives of most women today, and no one bats an eye at this stuff. If I were to make a comment about it, I would be crushed under the weight of replies about how I can’t take a joke, I am too serious, whatever.
God forbid you ever get labelled “the wrong guy” by your wife and her friends. If you do, you are toast.
Off topic. Interesting article about why people are not marrying in Japan. https://news.yahoo.com/parasite-singles-why-young-japanese-arent-getting-married-031514178.html
@BillyS –
You know nothing about me. For someone who has never read the Bible, I do know Matthew 7:5. I want to disagree amicably with others on this site. We’re all in this together. I just want others to grant me the same respect. If not, the good luck and God bless.
@Scott
If it makes you feel better, I asked my wife about the Hallmark Xmas movies and none she’a seen feature a story about a wife who decides she’s married the wrong guy. Divorce doesn’t feature in Hallmark Xmas movies; which in my view are to women what action movies are to men. Normal decent women like stories about finding the right guy to marry.
It’s like hating on Martha Stewart because she makes homemaking look perfect and easy.
Opus is correct up to a point regarding British people and exercise. The younger generation are very much into going to the gym. My neighbours ‘ children all have gym memberships. I agree that from the British perspective Americans do seem utterly obsessed with sport and exercise. So much so that I feel exhausted just reading about their bottomless enthusiasm for fitness.
Americans also seem equally obsessed with constant never-ending self improvement devouring Tony Robbins books by the lorry load. It would seem that if an individual is not spending every single waking second trying to advance their career become super-fit and a thousand other things then they are openly considered unintelligent,anti-social and down-right un-American! We British are not prone to idealism because being so historically minded we have seen everything before. We know that having that great job will only leave you exhausted and estranged from your family. My late uncle had a so-called great job with a big office and even bigger salary. It mentally and physically exhausted him and he turned to drink which caused the throat cancer that killed him at 55. The last 10 years of his life he and his wife barely spoke despite living in the same house because they had become essentially strangers to one another. There was plenty of money in the bank,but little time to enjoy it. He drove a top end Mercedes-Benz but only to the train station and back.
@ Scott:
Admitted Hallmark movie watcher here. The girls and I (hubs wouldn’t be caught dead watching one) laugh at them as we watch them, look out for the familiar memes and lines, and see them for what they are, but we do watch them. Mainly because we know no one is going to use foul language or tumble into bed together. They rarely even kiss until the final scene. You might find this humorous. We did.
Elspeth, you might also like this one:
@elspeth, 😀 hilarious !
@ Scott:
Cane is right. “The wrong guy” is never her husband. He’s usually a self-absorbed, workaholic, anti-Christmas city slicker type that the woman is dating but is not engaged to. The lack of engagement ring is for one of two reasons: He’s avoiding it because “what’s the rush?” or she’s just not that into him, sensing that he’s just not “the one”. From what I’ve seen, those scenarios are split about 50/50.
If a thing can be taken too far, then that’s how far we like to take it. Farther if possible. Thus America has both the fittest fit people and the fattest fat people.
Well I guess that’s a relief then
People should watch hallmark movies then with my apologies to writers who at least try to keep it wholesome
@wilandmari
That Yahoo article is a little gold mine. Most or all, I can’t tell, of the single men & women are accompanied by a parent. 44 year old man with his 70-something father. That’s very Japanese.
The “gig” economy does not appeal to Japanese, for example, temps are much less likely to be married. But the best part is seeing the word “hypergamy” in a news story coupled with reality.
Next word to teach: preselection.
@Stephanie G
In total agreement with your above comment.
Let’s take that generator Scott posted and run with it:
A Career oriented lawyer returns to her small town at Christmas time to save the family gymnasium business and magically falls in love with some guy and his dog who gives her a Peloton stationary bicycle for Christmas!
That thing works pretty good.
Related to the OP: comments about (and from) the Peloton advert’s “husband”!
https://hotair.com/archives/allahpundit/2019/12/05/guy-peloton-ad-disappointed/
@gdgm
Allahpundit writes “it was a JOKE! I MEANT to do that!”. That’s pretty pathetic. Is he doubling down? The comments are funny. Has anyone ever asked Allahpundit “what have you actually conserved”, I wonder?
@AR,
I haven’t the foggiest idea about Allahpundit, I don’t often read him. And I should have included the link about the “husband” (though it’s referenced in what I noted above):
https://www.psychologytoday.com/hk/blog/aesthetics-101/201912/disgraced-peloton-husband-speaks-out
Off Topic: I don’t even know what to say about this one.
https://theothermccain.com/2019/12/06/florida-woman-polygamy-pregnant/
Wait…. this chick is 20!?
And the oldest member of this freak show is 23!?
Scott:
My wife goes out of her way to:
Cook things I like, and when she tries something new and I don’t like it, she never makes it again
Wear clothes that I think are flattering on her
Do her hair the way I like it
Think of thoughtful gifts on Christmas, my birthday, father’s day.
…and so on.
She does not come across as obsequious or clingy. I think its sweet and I wouldn’t trade her for the world.
Same here. I couldn’t imagine it any other way. Because why would you even bother to get married then? In our case, my other half makes it a point of pride to be a good surrendered wife who focuses on taking care of her family and pleasing her husband (and she believes husband comes first, then kids…in terms of priorities). As God intended. So as far as marriage goes, I highly recommend it…that’s IF you find the right woman.
These corporations (and the Left in general) are evil.
@AR,
Hypergamy is worse than women wanting to get men with more money. I think when it is limited to this understanding, it is understated.
Hypergamy is about women wanting multiple, competing, often contradictory things in a man (physical attractiveness, personality-dominance (vice submissiveness), talent, status/money, loyalty/exclusiveness) AND wanting EACH of these things in a higher-than-merited sense (men with more money than they have, men with looks in the top 20%, personality-dominant men even though they’re not particularly personality-feminine). It is a double, triple, whatever, whammy against men.
I think many women’s instincts tell them they settled sub-optimally thus the common female resentment, bitchiness ingratitude, initiating divorce, etc. The overflated self-esteem of modern women makes all this worse.
Most men want a girl that is about as attractive as they are who is nice and doesn’t bang other men.
Oscar, I saw that too and was going to comment but I’ll comment here:
I have a different take than most of McCain’s commenters.
First of all, there’s hypergamy for ya!! Four young men who are SMV 2 (ok maybe 1.5) have to share a single, SMV 1 female (promiscuity in men and women is morally equivalent but it lowers SMV more in women than in men).
Rather than dumping on these men like some of this commenters (the young men are so pathetic it’s easy to do) we should point out how in the old days, an unattractive, low SMV man could at least have an unattractive low SMV woman of this own. This is what our liberal overlords have done to our lower class. Sick.
“Hallmark movies are a steady diet in the lives of most women today.”
Since I come here for the laughs, I live for comments like this one! Just . . . no. I can’t imagine anyone I know routinely watching Hallmark movies. At most, one might watch one around Christmas and, as Elspeth points out, laughing at the schmaltz is part of the fun. No one takes them seriously and they’re not an influence.
@ Scott – I have read RM’s posts that are tagged “Love” and still don’t fully understand exactly what he means by “men love idealistically, women love opportunistically.” This doesn’t seem to be the same thing as female hypergamy (which I think is real).
@ Bruce
That was one of the geniuses of Western Civilization. Thanks to the Church, cousin marriage, and polygamy gradually disappeared in Europe. The result was that each man (for the most part) was harnessed to one woman and their children, which incentivized Western men to be more productive.
Contrast that with the rest of the world, where polygamy rendered most men (up to 80% in some places) incapable of obtaining a family.
We seem to be heading back to primitive times, only worse.
Sometimes it works in reverse.
In Dinner at Fred’s (1997), a young man is engaged to a snotty rich bitch. The man is a junior executive in his future father-in-law’s firm. Because he’s afraid of flying, the man drives to his fiancee’s house for Christmas dinner, to announce their wedding in front of her family (her idea).
But his car breaks down in a snowstorm. He meets a kooky farm family, with a poor but beautiful daughter. He falls in love with her, and renounces his rich bitch fiancee and his job at her daddy’s firm.
Not a Hallmark movie, but a Christmas romcom nevertheless.
Oscar, better to be MGTOW than a “man” in that sea cow’s harem.
Oscar
I was immediately compelled to find a counter-photo proving that hope remains alive, and that not all American men are becoming nu-males or whatever is the current term for the dudes in that picture. So I searched for “water polo teams” figuring there would be some STRAC (skilled, tough, ready around the clock) troops represented. I should have been more specific or maybe used ice hockey but I didn’t want all Canadians. 3 out every 4 photos were of women’s teams.
Trying again using “men” as a qualifier I got a nice photo of the UCLA team, then noticed there is a woman in it. So one more entry for Dalrock’s collection of territory marking.
@Damn Crackers
If you read the Bible, or at least the Matt 7:1-5 passage you mentioned, then you’ll be able to figure out the obvious possibility that Jesus was talking against judging others while you refuse to first fix yourself (or judging hypocritically, if you prefer that way of summarizing).
Apparently you prefer the currently-fashionable reading, that Jesus is forbidding any judging of others. If that reading is correct however, what should we do with verses commanding us to judge others?
– Matt 18:15-20
– 1 Cor 5:11-13 (especially verse 12)
– 1 Cor 5:1-5
– Titus 3:9-11
And of course the examples in Scripture of Jesus and the apostles committing the act of judging others… Matt 15:1-9, Matt 23, Gal 2:11
Judging is seen as “not nice”. And therefore is against the religion of our feminist culture. Too bad; correction, which obviously comes after we judge a person’s actions to be unacceptable, is loving and helpful. Prov 3:11-12, Heb 12:3-17.
Of course, it is easier to loftily speak about the loving benefits of discipline, when I am not currently being corrected….
Oscar
Off Topic: I don’t even know what to say about this one.
Just for a start, try this: “Beta thirst is real”.
It won’t last, and someone’s gonna get stuck. More than one someone. But the thirst is real.
HallWoke?
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/the-next-chick-fil-a-hallmark-channel-ceo-signals-openness-to-gay-christmas-films
Stephen Kruiser at PJ Media is at it again with a follow up to his article linked here: Creeper Christmas Ad Tanks Peloton Stock, Company Still Defends It
https://pjmedia.com/trending/creeper-christmas-ad-tanks-peloton-stock-company-still-defends-it/
Dalrock, I’m interested in your take on Rollo’s latest essay, Respect Reconsidered.
He is laying out why men don’t get respect by default. A common criticism of the man up pastors is that they don’t have a default respect for men. This argument has always bothered me. The man up pastors are wrong, but I am not sure that their lack of default respect is why they are wrong.
If you are ever so inclined, it would be a valuable addition to the discussion to be able to read your reasoning as to why men should get respect by default.
@Bruce said: I … still don’t fully understand exactly what he means by “men love idealistically, women love opportunistically.
Many / most / all men live out of their heads. Women live out of their feet on the ground. Men imagine and invent. Women smell poopy pants and rotten food, fix both, and keep their family alive. Google Kipling’s The Female of the Species and read it. He is dealing with this issue of living out of ones head versus living with feet on the ground. Google Shakespear’s Sonnet 116. His take is the opposite of Kipling’s – and in doing so, demonstrates the “idealistict” approach to love that men make. Love may not be love that alters when it alteration finds. But, if the alteration put a woman’s children at risk in any way, love is irrelevant. With feet on the ground, she alters her circumstances as soon as possible (if possible) to protect the future interests of her children. And the man replys weakly (for he is devastated) … but I thought you loved me … . And she replies, when it comes to providing for me and the future of my children, what’s love got to do with it?
Men live out of their heads. They imagine and invent. And so they imagine that a wife can love them in the way that they want to be loved (maybe like mom or a favorite aunt or a sister did). Women live with their feet on the ground: “what do you have that will benefit me and my children?”. And the minute those “things” are threatened, off she goes for a more certain provider of what she perceives that she needs for her and her children for now and their future. It is that last sentence that is the foundation of hypergamy.
Have you read through these two links?
https://therationalmale.com/2011/12/27/women-in-love/
https://therationalmale.com/2015/01/02/commodifying-love/
Perhaps it has to do with the range of meaning in the English word for respect. Recently studied the Bible passage that commands husbands to treat their wives with respect. The word used was “time”, which had to do with value, which is different than the word used for respecting God/husbands, “phobos”.
Both usages are valid uses of “respect”, but there’s a difference between value and fear.
We should value our young men by default. But they have to earn the status of being feared.
That’s a good distinction.
DC,
I will be glad to give you respect as long as you stop insisting on holding to twists of the Scriptures. You claimed many things (such as being command to marry sluts) and were shown to be wrong. Yet you did not back off.
You did after I had written my replies. At least I saw your reply after I wrote my response. I was working through a great deal of the thread.
You are free to disagree with whatever, but don’t blame God for causing the modern marriage system. Perhaps you didn’t mean to do that, but that is what came across to me.
Scott,
I completely agree. Men are more committed and idealistic, contrary to all I have been told. I would still be married if my wife hadn’t ultimately spent our whole marriage trying to justify a way out of it, never investing in the true success of the marriage with her own efforts.
Some of that was selfishness, much laziness (she expected everything to be done for her, not for her to have to help make things a way she would like). She was unhappy ultimately because she didn’t want to serve anyone, let alone a husband. She remains in church spouting things that she should really be hearing herself, or so I hear from my son.
Otto
Stephen Kruiser at PJ Media
Looks to me he isn’t as smart as he believes himself to be, and is doubling down on the original mistake. I hope gets laughed at a lot in comments, because that’s all this babbling deserves.
Some men cannot be taught and won’t learn. I see several at PJ media who in that category.
Over 34 years ago I bought my wife a marriage present: A gym membership. She still looks amazing. She retired from her job and is going to be a Pilates instructor. Life is good.
We should value our young men by default. But they have to earn the status of being feared.
Riffing on this, there is nothing about getting married that would earn a young man the status of being feared, and that is the kind of respect held out as a reward for marrying by the man up preachers. They use the same kind of bait and switch women use with nice guys.
I just read Rollos article.
It lays out alot of what I have thought about the use of “respect” in my own thoughts. Have to think about it some more and maybe write something on my own professional blog.
@Oscar
Male thirst knows no bounds. Also this link also shows that its not just recent:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=168948903
Photoshopped hairychested and pig-nosed woman. Gets within a few days filled up with men trying to get with her.
@7817
There’s not much to comment about Rollo’s post. Rollo is just laying out what the Manosphere already knows. Men today get a lot less respect than men in the past, we knew that already. Older men get even less respect. Perhaps this is revenge on the part of aging feminists. But most of us know that already too.
As Christians tho our job is to obey the Bible. “Honor one another above yourselves” – Romans 12:10
@ Red Pill Latecomer
I’m a married father of nine, and I approve this message.
@ Lost Patrol
If you narrow your search to Division 1 sports teams, the young men in that picture are going to be in the top-some-fraction-of-1% of all young men. And yet, their territory is still marked.
@ info
I deeply regret clicking on that link.
There were few differences in leisure time sport participation by weight for girls (Table 4). The prevalence of obesity did not differ overall among those who played organized sports compared to those who did not. There were also no differences by specific sport, except for running/track. Girls who reported they participate in running/track had a significantly lower prevalence of obesity than girls who did not participate in any leisure time sport activity. In contrast, the prevalence of obesity among male nonathletes/participants-in-other-activities was significantly higher than among boys who did. This finding was consistent for male baseball, basketball, running/track, and soccer athletes, although the prevalence of obesity among football players did not differ from nonathletes/participants-in-other-activities.
Multivariate models were consistent with the bivariate analyses. Girls were no more likely to be obese when playing any common sport, compared to female nonathletes/participants-in-other-activities. Girls participating in running/track were less likely to be obese, controlling for grade, race, and income. However, lower income was significantly associated with greater likelihood of being obese for girls (OR = 3.17 for <100% FPL). Male athletes were significantly less likely to be obese compared to male nonathletes/participants-in-other-activities, except for football players. In contrast to girls, income was not significantly associated with greater odds of obesity among boys (see Table 5).
However, we found virtually no differences in obesity prevalence between most common sports and nonathletes/participants-in-other-activities in girls. Our analysis does show that runners are significantly less likely to be obese than their peers who play the most popular organized female team sports.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2333794X15577944
We reviewed research comparing sport participants with non-participants on weight status, physical activity and diet. Among nineteen studies we found no clear pattern of association between body weight and sport participation. Among seventeen studies we found that sport participants are more physically active than those who do not participate.
The available data indicate that those who participate in youth sport remain susceptible to overweight and obesity. For example, national studies in the U.S. have found that more than 1 in 4 youth sport participants (26% male, 27% female) were overweight (18), and nearly half of youth (48%) who were obese said they participated in sport (7).
Given the limited available research, there is not sufficient evidence to conclude that sport participation protects against the development of obesity. Additional research is needed to understand weight status and weight gain among sport participants and to determine if, and under what conditions, sport can effectively prevent unhealthy weight gain.
Longitudinal studies suggest that activity levels decline for many sport participants after they discontinue participation (2, 17, 27, 40, 48, 52, 55). These studies also suggest that the strength of the relationship between sport participation in adolescence and physical activity in adulthood is modest, and does not occur in all subgroups.
Currently it is unclear whether youth sport effectively works to prevent the development of pediatric obesity. Youth participating in sport are more physically active than those who do not participate, and sport participation should be encouraged on this basis. However, the existing research suggests that youth in sport are more likely to consume greater amounts of calories and consume some unhealthy foods and beverages. It is unclear whether the higher energy expenditure associated with sport compensates adequately for this additional energy intake.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4444042/
“Do youth sports prevent pediatric obesity? A systematic review and commentary.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4444042/
Sports with a higher level of obesity included rugby, swimming, judo and tennis and sports with lower levels of obesity included gymnastics, handball, horse riding and dance, although the sample within each of these sports was relatively small. Another study found lower body mass index among sport participants among females, but not males, participating in weight-related sports (e.g., gymnastics), while no differences existed between power-team (e.g., football, soccer, hockey) sport participants and non-participants (14).
………..
One study randomly assigned overweight and previously inactive youth to an after-school soccer program or a group that received health education and found significant increases in objectively measured physical activity, and small, but statistically significant decreases in body mass index at 3 and 6 months in the soccer group compared to the health education group (60).
……….
BMI is a reasonable measure of adiposity in children and adolescents (16), but it may not be a good indicator among sport participants, especially those who tend to be more muscular (37). Differential body composition may bias comparisons of sport participants and non-participants toward findings of no difference when using BMI, but the extent to which this issue is an important factor among youth is not known. Cross-sectional designs do not account for possible selection bias.
So, understanding that obesity is a major problem in the USA, and since I live in the USA, I’d much rather develop good habits in my kids (like healthy eating, and exercise) in childhood, rather than let them figure it out in adulthood, or – like most of their peers – never. And sports are an empirically proven method to do that.
The relationship between adolescent participation in sports and obesity is inconclusive. The line graph you started this off with was of obesity rates among the population of adults since the 1960s. It’s unknown if playing sports in adolescence lowers the risk of obesity in adulthood, so your claim that it is an “empirically proven” way of preventing obesity is bunk. Sports isn’t primarily about “exercise” or maintaining a healthy body weight but a way of teaching young men lessons in cooperation, achievement and hard work. Team sports simulates warfare. It prepares young men for the adult world when they will be in competition with other men. No one on a soccer field or a baseball diamond is there to get exercise. Sports does not prepare girls for motherhood but fathers push their daughters into it because the male protective instinct misfires in this environment. That was my point. But because you have kids in sports, you took offense to my remarks and went on a senile boomer rant about obesity and exercise.
@ Boris (@Protagoris7788)
I provided you with empirical evidence to the contrary. Did you read the part about BMI and muscle mass? Do you understand what that might have to do with weight?
You do realize that sports involve a lot more than just the game on the baseball diamond, or the soccer field, right? You do realize that sports include practice, and strength and conditioning (which happens off the field), right? You even quoted me when I made the point about building good habits. For every hour spent actually playing a game, the athlete spends multiple hours practicing, and training strength and conditioning. The routine of practice, and strength and conditioning, helps build good habits that help a person stay fit in adulthood.
You’re not very good at reading minds.
@ Boris (@Protagoris7788)
Have you ever actually fought in a war?
Looks to me he [Stephen Kruiser] isn’t as smart as he believes himself to be, and is doubling down on the original mistake.
SJW’s always double down.
I noticed the comments on his round 2 article aren’t nearly as critical of the ad. In fact, many are now in support of the ad. Not sure if it’s Dalrock or something else, but there seems to be some pushback against the cuckservatives who originally attacked the ad.
Bruce-
One way to see what is going on with idealistic verses opportunistic love is to reference the conventional wisdom on divorce initiation rates. If you point out to the average, blue pill, normal person that women are initiating the vast majority of divorces, they will respond that this must be because men are such crappy husbands. This fits neatly into all the other crap they have been telling us for years. Men are afraid of commitment. Men “just don’t get it” when it comes to what their wives need. Men are stupid. Men are less emotionally sophisticated. Men are horn dogs who cheat and leave. Etc.
One must earn his way out of this mental trap in order to see the alternative hypothesis.
When I got married the first time, I was not “afraid of commitment.” I made the promise and I actually meant it. Divorce was absolutely off the table as an option for me. Even in the face of adultery, this proved to be true. I was willing, and truly desired to work it out. To stay. No matter what. I believe this is an innate ability for men. A trait of sticking to it and seeing it through. Does it have to be developed? Sure. But it comes naturally to us. Men are the author of order and discipline and we know that much more rides on these institutions than how it makes us feel at the time.
When I looked at my then, brand new wife, I thought to myself “she is not perfect. There are some things about her that drive me crazy. But I also love many things about her, and although I reserve the right to complain about her negative traits, I will never leave.
When a man does this, (as we tend to do) it brings us a sense of relief because we make the mistake of thinking she approaches the marriage sacrament in the exact same way. We assume that no matter challenges come, we will both stay in the fight and work it out, and STILL BE MARRIED at the end. But they don’t.
Some time after the dust had settled from the divorce, I was still on speaking terms with her and we had a series of conversations about this. What I learned was when she married me, she had a different rubric. It was (direct quote) “that’s a good start.” You see, she married me for the potential of what she believed I would (or could) become. Now, she would not have been able to articulate precisely what that was. More money? Better profession? More sensitive? Who knows? All of it was swirling around in her subconscious mind and there was a nebulous time line I was one as well. If I did not reach this potential by some yet to be determined date, then divorce would be an option. When I asked her if she heard the preacher say “until death do us part,” she said (again quoting) “well, sure. I meant it at the time.”
It was according to the line of thinking that she also able to justify obnoxious statements like “I didn’t think it meant a life prison sentence” and “I married the wrong guy.” Add a few women friends around whispering, and before you know it, you are toast.
So lets recap with a little less clutter.
Man: Looks at his betrothed and decides “no matter what. If you NEVER change, I will love you and stay with you until one of us is dead.”
Woman: In the same situation says “Until death do us part–unless you fail to meet the undefined standards in the back of my mind.” (This is like a promise with fingers crossed behind the back).
The man has an idealized view of love. The woman has a utilitarian one.
This is why it is almost always a surprise to the man when divorce is thrust upon him. It was to me. It is to most of my divorced male clients. It is because it literally never occurred to the man that divorce was on the table. It was put on the table against his will, against, his knowledge, and against his idealized version of marriage.
Just a quick follow up.
It appears that men have a much longer time horizon in this regard. When I looked at her, while we were very young, I could picture in my minds eye the two of us, old grey, falling apart physically and still married. I did this often and it was very comforting to me.
I don’t think this is a trait women are naturally inclined toward.
Finally, I’ve been over this before, but it bears repeating.
One can look at this story and say “well, what about the other side?”
And that’s fair. But I can say this. I did not cheat. I was not violent. I did not yell or abuse. I was not addicted to any substances. I was a standard issue, American husband. No more or less problems than anyone else.
@ Scott
A man marries a woman hoping she’ll never change, and she does.
A woman marries a man hoping he’ll change, and he doesn’t. And she loathes him for it.
@Oscar
Deuteronomy 22:13 – 22:21
Duh…
Oscar
I think there is a grain of truth to that cliche, but It falls short of capturing the whole thing.
It seems like men wouldn’t mind if she never changes but we tend to be pretty flexible about changes. How many men are married to women who were thin, pretty, made up well when they were young and who are now 300 lbs, with Karen hair styles and still refer to them as “my beautiful bride?” They might not like it, but they work with it.
Development over the lifespan is a changing sub field of psychology and its pretty fascinating. At almost 50, I am starting to reach the most productive years in my profession and its really exciting. I had to reach this age where I still have the stamina combined with the experience to start really hitting my stride here.
I think my ex probably would be surprised to see where I am now. She just couldn’t wait I guess.
Side note: Whenever men refer to their huge wives that way, I recite (quietly, under my breath to myself) the line from the movie “Shallow Hal” — “is she behind the rhino?”
@Liz
100% off topic, but that site crashed my browser with it’s 14mb of javascript bloat.
Maybe guys looked more mature in those older graduation photos, because they knew how to dress. Case in point, this photo.
Only one person (red tie) has his tie correctly tied and adjusted (looks to be the only person that tied a full windsor, from what I can see).
The band around the neck should never show (unless you are wearing a wingtip collar).
The guys on the ends are close to getting it right, but not on the money. The black and blue stripe is a half windsor knot matched to a collar that is way too wide for a half windsor.
I’m assuming most of these guys had no parental help in learning how to tie a tie, and had to learn it on their own (probably fromYouTube).
Huh? Man buys his wife a $2,245 gift is not the husband pleasing his wife, but rather the other way around? What if he bought her a $2,245 mink coat? Diamonds are a girl’s best friend.
Watching the commercial, the house seems very expensive, with massive square footage and the giant yard backs to some sort of park . This guy is loaded. Poor girl to be married to such a man.
Waiting for their reaction to a commercial when a woman buys her man a $2,245 gaming computer to play Fortnite with the settings on max. The guy would get pstd from that.
100% off topic, but that site crashed my browser with it’s 14mb of javascript bloat.
Hey, sorry. Cliff notes version: Stock is up about 43 percent for the month.
RISING WITH THE SUN!
@ Scott
I think my ex probably would be surprised to see where I am now. She just couldn’t wait I guess.
Would you be where you are now if you had stayed with her?
Liz
It doesn’t matter
Justifying “where I am right now” with the sin of divorce is still sin.
In fact the painful ambivalence those kinds of thought experiments cause me is exactly why divorce is so destructive and should never be an option.
The ripple effect, some 24 years down the road still reverberates and tempts the participant to ask morally inappropriate questions like that.
I’m probably the least likely regular in the manosphere to quote scripture, but this one seems relevant to the topic of having reached a particular (arguably “better” state after a divorce.
Romans 6:1-2 “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?“
Across the temporal span of my lifetime, and with the benefit of hindsight, I now have a marriage and children who would not exist without the divorce.
But this is dangerous thinking. It ultimately means even if we are married we ought to be looking for opportunities to remove ourselves from those ties in case something better comes along. To sin, so grace may abound!
God gave me another chance IN SPITE of the sin.
In other totally unrelated news
One of my conservative dad friends has this on his FB page today
@Scott,
Ask him what he thinks of this: https://www.steynonline.com/9892/men-walked-away
To return to Gloria Steinem, when might a fish need a bicycle? The women of Montreal’s École Polytechnique could have used one when Marc Lépine walked in with a gun and told all the men to leave the room. They meekly did as ordered. He then shot all the women.
Otto-
The conservative dads and their kick ass girls who can shoot thing has so utterly and completely converged upon whatever “conservatism” is that its really no use trying to challenge all the broken and irrational presuppositions that underlie these memes.
The site it was shared from is called “disgruntled vets” which is a standard, flag waving, pro-military, pro-gun blah blah site.
Usually, when I see stuff like this, I try to dill down into the thousands of comments for the one red-pill guy who goes against the grain. This time, I found ZERO such comments.
Scott
I just read Rollos article.
It lays out alot of what I have thought about the use of “respect” in my own thoughts.
In my semi informed opinion, part of the problem lies in words such as “love” and “respect”, and it’s the worst in the churches. Because everything is feminized to some degree, we can’t as a society acknowledge the fact that “love” means different things to men vs. women. Rollo fleshes that out well, and Scott addressed it in a later comment.
The article really is worth reading. I’ll slap the URL up again just because it’s real food for thought.
https://therationalmale.com/2019/12/03/respect-reconsidered-part1/
With regard to the churches: I dunno if this is a place where the Koine Greek microanalysis is valid or not. Way too often I have seen “Let’s read the Koine Greek” as a pure baffle/gaslight riff. But there is a difference between eros and philos and agape, someone else can expound on that.
As long as the churches and their leaders cannot grasp that women are not just men with boobs who can have babies, though, it may not matter. Even the so-called conservative churches don’t really get this, IMO, which is why women usually run those churches either directly or via sock puppet men. I believe there’s a game of motte / bailey that is played with “agape”, sometimes, but I could be wrong about that.
Now on to another peeve. There’s that Bible quote about “love endures all” that gets used in some situs. I wager that within the social circle of every man reading this, there’s a man who is enduring a contentious, downright obnoxious wife: he’s yelled at, he has fights picked daily, he gets backtalk, he gets argued with, and he puts up with it not just because he’s deeply Betaized (but that’s a huge factor) but also because he’s been brainwashed – yes, brainwashed – with the idea that “Love endures all”. No matter what his “weaker vessel” does to him, he has to put up with it because “love”.
Some translations use the word “Charity” instead of “love”, and that seems significant to me. Someone else can expound on that, too. Again, this might be a legit use of “original text in original language”. Because from time to time, I have seen that quote about “love” used as a club to beat married churchgoing men into submission to their oh-so-delicate,”weaker vessel” wives.
AR–this is what I wrote over there, like 2 seconds ago.
I like what you have done here with the two “types” of respect.
The two actually internally contradict each other and one place I noticed this was in the army. When I first joined, in 2000 the training mnemonic used in basic and AIT was “the army values.”
For reference: Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless service, Honor, Integrity and Personal Courage. (LDRSHIP)
Occasionally,the drill sergeants would gather everyone in the platoon into a semi-circle and yell “alright, who wants to give the definition of respect?” (Or some other of the seven values)
Invariably, someone would stand up at parade rest
“Drill sergeant, respect is [_______________________]”
On that particular value, you could always the sense the struggle of the respondent as they tried to reconcile respect as a default that all people are entitled to for living and breathing (the feminine type of respect) and rendering courtesies and customs to those whose position or title or other earned status demands it (the masculine kind)
Both cannot be “respect” because they are 100% incompatible with each other.
But today, i can give both definitions and be “right”
And then, this doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface of the more bizarre uses of the term, that make your brain go all sideways when you hear it. It goes something like:
“I will give you the respect you are entitled to as a [whatever] until you disrespect me, then I no longer have to respect you because you didn’t earn it first.”
Huh?
Scott
One of my conservative dad friends has this on his FB page today
Sigh. Teaching women to shoot is kind of like putting them in a “model mugging” class.
https://infogalactic.com/info/Model_Mugging
The utility of Model Mugging lay in teaching women to cope with the hormonal response to an attack, and basic techniques to break contact. That’s why the Model Muggers looked like a Michelin Man. The danger lay in girls getting the idea that they could out fight an attacker; a little unpadded sparring can fix that up. Girls are slow.
Unlike some men, I don’t have a problem with teaching girls to shoot. Some of my best friends are girls whose father taught them to shoot. I’ve read enough accurate reports from various sources of actual with-gun self defense by women that it’s legit. I can argue this from facts.
But there’s a light year of difference between “can hit standard target at 7 meters on the range” and stuff that can happen on the street. The granny or pregnant wife who can point a pistol at Joe Burglar prying open her back door is fortunate, she might find that task more difficult in the parking lot of the WalMart after dark, and even worse with multiple VCA’s flanking. A point defense is not the same as a mobile defense just for a start.
LOL @ that nerd-boy pinup pick of a girl with some LBE on, it is just laughable. The “warrior princess” meme is just absurd, and sadly it gets girls hurt every year.
Not surprised you couldn’t find any truth in the comments. Sad, but not surprised.
AR-
One of the common themes in the comments from all the dads of kick ass daughters was something like:
“Problem is now there aren’t enough men being raised who can handle [my daughter who is a kick ass gal like the one in the picture]
And all I can think of to write is “why are you raising daughter that my sons will have to ‘handle?'”
Shouldn’t marriage be enjoyable and fun?
AR-
@scott
Here we see the cuckservatives already capitulating by trannying their daughters. How long until they accept trannying their sons?
@ Scott
The best line was; “like most beginning students, you attacked me wrong.”
On a side note, have you ever searched for “BS martial arts” on YouTube? There is some hilarious stuff there.
I have often considered that the most simple explanation of married Game is Disrespect plus Love. When you think about it, Heartiste was right, it boils down to “Tease her.”
I’ve never seen the verses in the Bible that tell a husband to respect his wife, I trust that SirHamster is correct, but the translation I have doesn’t carry that to English, so it must be the kind of difference in Greek he describes.
I trust that SirHamster is correct,
Lol! Why would you a silly thing like that?
Scott
And all I can think of to write is “why are you raising daughter that my sons will have to ‘handle?’”
That fits in with the now infamous “If you can’t handle me at my worst, you don’t deserve my best”.
Pedestalization, IMO.
@Scott, Oscar, Lost Patrol, others
Random thought. Drill Instructors even now have latitude to do things to recruits intended to break them down in various ways. This makes them malleable and therefore they can be built back up into a better version.They can be molded. This is how soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, guardsment, etc. are made.
Too many church “leaders” have adopted the practice of breaking men down, but can’t or won’t build them back up again. It’s almost as if they want men to be broken, and stay broken, period. Because they are easier to control that way.
Probably just a false impression on my part. But it fits a pattern.
@Scott
Wait, maybe I’m confused. Is that pic you posted from the new $tar War$ movie?
@Hippopotamusdrome says:”The stock is still up bigly for the month.
https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/pton”
Yeah your right, its up 44% in 1 month, Now thats a gain and a half 😀
“100% off topic, but that site crashed my browser with it’s 14mb of javascript bloat.”
Time to upgrade from IE6 !!!
@Oscar
I am sorry you had to see that. And the fact that it happened shows how pathetic male thirst really is.
@ info
Dude, that was disturbing, especially since they men’s photos looked relatively normal, as far as I can recall. I’m sure as hell not clicking on that link again, to verify!
@AR
https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2016/11/03/gods-drill-instructors-language-warning/
Across the temporal span of my lifetime, and with the benefit of hindsight, I now have a marriage and children who would not exist without the divorce.
But this is dangerous thinking. It ultimately means even if we are married we ought to be looking for opportunities to remove ourselves from those ties in case something better comes along. To sin, so grace may abound!
Fair enough. I’ve sometimes found it useful (or at least interesting) to look at the results of past events and how differently things would’ve been if not for this or that. I had a pretty bad injury that left me in a wheelchair for about two years of my life. If it hadn’t happened, the timing for meeting my husband wouldn’t have worked out. And so forth. That doesn’t mean I advocate accidents or self-harm. At any rate, point taken.
“Too many church “leaders” have adopted the practice of breaking men down, but can’t or won’t build them back up again.”
I have experienced and observed this countless times. A pastor whose congregation I attended years ago always started a sermon by addressing the men and saying, “The Lord is not satisfied with you.” Consistent effort and self-improvement never made any difference so I became sufficiently demoralized that I stopped listening to him. When I went to him for help with problems and sins that vexed me he never provided any useful direction but definitely broke me down.. Eventually I stopped listening to him and went directly to God with my problems.
@Quiet Desperation
Your experience is common enough such that memes have been generated.
LP great meme
And if you’re the kind of guy who waffles between greater beta/lesser alpha traits, the modern church will absolutely fix that for ya.
Scott,
My exwife has said the exact same thing, that she married me for my potential. She still claims to believe and follow Jesus as well, spouting lots of things (from what I hear) that would indicate she is walking the narrow way. (She is not of course, but she doesn’t see any problem with her pushing the divorce.)
Women want perfection and they will never get it, so they always have an excuse to leave when they decide to leave.
It is society that allows this now.
Scott / Billy S
I’ve noticed the same trend pointed out above in the church as far as Australia. There is a great emphasis on brokenness of spirit told to men in the church. Women, though, don’t seem to sin…..
The counter to this is that I come TO Jesus with a broken spirit, or a run-down life. He re-builds me and turns me into His servant, His weapon, His implement of choice.
I definitely won’t be apologizing for being a man, reasoning like a man, having the sex drive of a man and thinking like a man. How can I? That happened at conception, and it was God who ‘knitted me together in my mother’s womb”.
There are a number of places in the New Testament that list the things (with words / descriptors) that will keep one out of heave (to put it simply). I have taken the time to copy all of those verses from the Internet and into a document file and then strip out the individual words. After deleting duplicates, it is still quite a list. And, to reemphasize, all of those words describe what it is that will keep one out of heaven, absent a genuine request for forgiveness from God.
The words fornication and adultry are in that list. The word “divorce” is not. That would be in keeping with 1 Corinthians 11
Note that God is still speaking in Verse 11 there. Paul does not resume speaking until Verse 12. That is – it is God who says “but if she leaves …” That is OK with God, according to that scripture. Because divorce is not listed as a thing that will keep one out of heaven in the places where such things are listed. And – according to God, what is not OK is if she remarries. For that remarriage causes her to commit adultry or fornication, both of which are behaviors that the list says are sins that can keep one out of heaven. The two things that God emphasizes in the Bible are 1.) things that will bring him glory, and 2.) behaviors that will keep us out of heaven if we don’t repent and ask forgiveness. So in the verses at the link above, God is issuing a warning to stay away from behaviors that will keep one out of heaven (remarriage = adultry or fornication). And, according to God’s own voice, divorce is not one of them (even though God says he hates divorce). But remarriage is. Because remarriage = adultry or fornication. (I’m including “fornication” here to forstall arguments about which word means what in the original Greek / Hebrew / Aramaic)
I would have lasted one Sunday at such a church.
Dalrock, you are missing the point of why women are angry…
White women are finally starting to get angry that all these ads are shoving interracial relationships down our throat
We’ve lost A LOT of men to Asian women and other HuWhite types. And this ad says to Asian women and HuWhyte women ‘If your skinny enough…the All American White Guy May Love You’ It manages to insult white women AND asian/huwhyte women…at the same time!
All the things wrong with the Pelotin Ad:
1) Interracial Relationship — Another White Man Lost
2) Saying to Non-white Women — If your skinny enough, you may get the white guy!
3) The whole Fashion Blogger Vibe the girl has…she walks into the house wearing an outfit that must cost 1 Billion Dollars
4) The Obscene Cost of this Stupid Bike
5) The Bad-Acting…’I’m so frightened to get on the bike..I’m so nervous’ …WHAT?!?!
6) The Bizarre Cult-Like Attitude of Owning a Pelotin Bike…Oh My goodness…the instructor guy called me? Me? …Dalrock…there is a definite Cult Vibe to this ad
7) The disgusting Perfection of This woman’s life…look at the house…it’s an Instagram account…Who is the ad Targeting? Upper Class Married Women? Who has this Money??!?!
8) The acting is really bad and over the top…like really bad
9) The whole video taping herself for instagram and social media is just Insane…sure it’s for a video for her husband…but that even makes it worse…Hasn’t he been in the house watching her workout for the entire year? Do we really need to document sweating?
10) Losing weight is very difficult over the age of 35, then ad in child-bearing. It’s really hard…and this ad doesn’t make anyone want to lose weight…it just makes you want to shoot yourself and give up…The woman doesn’t even lose weight in the ad…she’s already a model…
11) At the end of the day, no woman has ever lost weight primarily to please her husband. I’m losing weight now FOR MYSELF and my wonderful husband is supportive. Today he drove me to the gym and picked me up because it was raining and that was really, really sweet of him. It makes my already tough job just a little bit easier.
It’s a very bad ad, and I think you are totally wrong as to why women are offended.
Just the pure Materialism of the ad is disgusting…a 2K bike and this woman wearing 5K worth of clothing in a 30 second spot is enough to make someone wretch…it’s just so disgusting…
The husband appears in the ad for all of 2 seconds…Women are not angry because of the husband (other than the interracial messages)
@Oscar
“Dude, that was disturbing, especially since they men’s photos looked relatively normal, as far as I can recall. I’m sure as hell not clicking on that link again, to verify!”
I must be jaded. I didn’t realize the photoshopped fake profile of the “woman” is so bad and yet when that experiment is conducted.
That those normal guys have no issue with it. Something really wrong with them.
It certain verifies and brings home what’s wrong with those men who have no issue with that horror.
@ Scott, thanks for the response. From your explanation, it really sounds like “men love idealistically, women…..” is just a different way of saying women are hypergamous.
Their love sees opportunity in a man’s potential to meet their undefined (hypergamous, really) expectations but a man can never reach that potential. Her standards don’t change – she wants it all – the various traits that compete with one another in real men.
“Now, she would not have been able to articulate precisely what that was. More money? Better profession? More sensitive? Who knows?”
She wanted all of the above and more – hypergamy. It’s not just about wanting more of any one thing – they want more of everything including competing/conflicting things.
Men want much less – a woman they are physically attracted to who is nice and doesn’t sleep with other men.
@RichardP,
If you put your faith in Jesus, then there is no sin that will keep you out of heaven. Christ’s work on the cross is enough to cover ALL sins.
Conversely, if you don’t put your faith in Jesus, there is no sin small enough that can be overlooked to allow you into heaven. A 100% sinless life is required to get into heaven, which neither you or I could ever achieve.
There is no list of sins that will prevent you from going to heaven and others that won’t. ALL sins, no matter how small, prevent you from going to heaven.
@BillyS said: “She still claims to believe and follow Jesus as well, spouting lots of things (from what I hear) that would indicate she is walking the narrow way. (She is not of course, but she doesn’t see any problem with her pushing the divorce.)”
The problem isn’t that Christians are sinning (ALL Christians continue to sin in one way or another). It’s Christians who sin and no longer recognize their actions as sinful; whose conscience no longer bothers them about their sins.
IMHO, much of modern Christianity is on that downward spiral described in the latter half of Romans 1, which ends with the promotion and approval of sin not just in themselves, but in others.
I won’t address the question of whether they were ever really Christian, but it seems clear to me that once they have reached the end of that Romans 1 descent that they are no longer part of the body of Christ.
Scott: ““that’s a good start.”
Oscar: “A woman marries a man hoping he’ll change, and he doesn’t. And she loathes him for it.”
Really this suggests that in general women don’t marry the men they want to marry, they effectively settle.
I guess we already knew this.
I still have a pretty cool wife who loves to please me.
LOL She told me for Christmas she getting my name or my initials tattooed on one of her fingers with maybe a tiny heart and thin line going all the way around her finger.
I’ve known her since a few days after she turned 26. Over 33 years. She’s never said she wanted one. I don’t have any. Our kids don’t have any. Our friends don’t have any.
But I’m like “hey, that’s pretty cool, I like it”.
Because I have a pretty cool wife.
Merry,
Oh, STFU.
White women deserve to face competition just like everyone else. If Asian women are pressuring white women to stay thin, that is a good thing.
White men don’t exist only to be useful to white women. Are white women marrying as virgins at 22? If not, then don’t expect white men to wait around while you slut it up.
Can blame it on the NIV. I was using the 1984 version.
1 Peter 3:7.
NIV: “Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.”
ESV: “… showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel”
KJV: “… giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel”
Merry: The disgusting Perfection of This woman’s life…look at the house…it’s an Instagram account…
If you hate this ad because of its “disgusting Perfection” then you must hate most TV ads. Most TV ads feature perfect people (albeit the men are a bit goofy) leading perfect lives in perfect houses.
Haven’t you see all those wine or beer commercials in which a diverse group of friends get together to celebrate? They all look like models in a Home & Gardens/Hallmark movie house, laughing warmly, flashing perfect white teeth as they clink their glasses.
I don’t see why you’d single out this ad for its depiction of Perfection.
My daughter is now a Fellow Of The American College of Surgeons and is fully accredited as a trauma Surgeon.
When she was back in her teens, I made sure that she became an excellent pistol shot with all the weapons that I had gifted to her. (all..4 cal & above)
Bye and bye, she married a professional(-as-on-TV -bow hunter) (looks the part) dude.
Their unnaturally gorgeous children have never known the taste of processed meat and will not fail to grow into their natural manhood –womanhood….
@BillyS
Pray for your wife because she is not saved nor has god disciplined her. She is a bastard and no daughter of his.
See how she is unrepentant. And how satan is not having his way with her that her flesh be destroyed and her soul saved on the last day.(1 corinthians 5:5)
@Otto
All Christians undergo God’s discipline to train righteousness (Hebrews 12:7-11). Unrepentant Christians may even have their lives taken from them to save their souls(1 Corinthians 5:5).
King David for example suffered terribly for murdering Uriah and taking his wife. Moses has to be exiled to the desert. Prophets were killed for disobeying God(1 Samuel 17:25)
If that doesnt happen. Despite unrepentant sin. Then they are bastards and not truly saved. God disciplines his children. People who get scot free in this life for evil are bound for eternal torment.
@ info
A pastor whose church I used to attend used to say something to the effect of “let the unrepentant have their fun. This life is the best they’ll ever get.”
Jack / SigmaFrame has some interesting observations at his blog, he linked to Dalrock in the course of writing, this can be seen here in the sidebar. Unhappily comments require registering with one of the data-parasites such as Facebook, Twitter, etc. so he won’t be having much of a conversation.
For a Biblical perspective on the Peloton controversy, the Bee keeps us up-to-date:
https://babylonbee.com/news/historians-claim-solomon-presented-each-of-his-concubines-with-peloton-exercise-bike
Today’s “military wives” are men: https://www.today.com/parents/meet-dads-redefining-role-military-spouse-t169367
Jeremy and Renae Hilton were both active duty military when their first child was born 17 years ago with special needs. One of them had to step back from their career to provide full-time care for their daughter, and Jeremy decided it would be him. He left the Navy while Renae continued her Air Force career, making him one of a small but growing number of male military spouses. …
Just like “military wives” have always done, military husbands keep the home fires burning, support their active duty spouses and do the often-thankless work of caring for their families on the home front. As women pursue military careers in growing numbers, their husbands are redefining what it means to be a military spouse.
“For any male military spouses out there, my first recommendation is to have a sense of humor about yourself,” says Chris Field, husband of Lt. Col. Amy Field. “If you can’t laugh about your status as the ‘army wife,’ you’re going to have a tough go at it.”
As a stay-at-home dad to four kids, Field says he is most proud that he creates conditions in which his wife can flourish. …
Note that male military spouses are advised to “laugh at themselves.”
The message is, men should be “military wives,” but that doesn’t entitle them to any respect. They’re still just doofus dads.
Merry says:
“White women are finally starting to get angry that all these ads are shoving interracial relationships down our throat …And this ad says to Asian women and HuWhyte women ‘If your skinny enough…the All American White Guy May Love You’”
1. There’s no interracial relationship in this ad. Both girl and guy are white.
2. If you’re feeling pressured to put out a little effort to get and keep a man, that’s a good sign. You are not entitled to anything from any man you are not married to, and if you are married to him he is also entitled to things from you in return. This is stuff that every civilization used to understand and instill in its young; the fact that we do not do so anymore is a prime indicator of decadence.
Otto:
“If you put your faith in Jesus, then there is no sin that will keep you out of heaven. Christ’s work on the cross is enough to cover ALL sins.”
This was an unknown notion before the time of Martin Luther (so, for the first 1500 years of the Christian Era). And even today, it is doctrine adhered to by only a small minority of Christians worldwide.
Of course, St. Paul directly refuted this when he said in an epistle (that was, of course, addressed to believing Christians who already had the Faith), “Do not be deceived. Neither idolaters, nor drunkards, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor murderers, nor…(etc, etc) shall inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.” So clearly, St. Paul wanted the Christian community he was addressing to be aware (“be not deceived”) that their faith will not save them, if they persist in serious sin.
Of course, Our Lord told us this Himself in the Gospel: “Not all those who call me ‘Lord, Lord’ will inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, but only those who do the will of My Father in Heaven.”
If you’re still unsure, just read the Book of James. Lays it out pretty forcefully: Faith is necessary, but not sufficient. One must keep the Commandments of God, Christians don’t get a free pass to sin.
P.S. Of course, your statement that “Christ’s work on the cross is enough to cover ALL sins” is correct, PROVIDED (and this is key) the sinner repent, do penance, and form a firm purpose of amendment. For “God wills not the death of the sinner, but that he repent and live.” If done outside the sacrament of penance that Our Lord established and entrusted to His Apostles on Easter evening (see the last chapter of the Gospel of John), the contrition of the repentant sinner must be perfect. If in the sacrament, then imperfect contrition will suffice.
@rum
Your daughter is a trauma surgeon and you are bragging on this web site. Just count yourself lucky she was able to find a man to satisfy her hypergamy. Hope your conservatard “principles” didn’t do too much damage.
How many hours a week is she not at home in order to maintain her fellowship?
There’s no interracial relationship in this ad. Both girl and guy are white.
The actress in the Pelaton ad is Monica Ruiz, a Latina. (Someone in this thread thought she was Asian.)
She’s suffered some backlash over being in the ad: https://www.businessinsider.com/peloton-holiday-commercial-actress-viral-fame-2019-12
Monica Ruiz revealed her identity on Saturday, issuing a statement to Deadline through her agency, LA Talent, responding to the attention surrounding the ad.
“I was happy to accept a job opportunity earlier this year from Peloton and the team was lovely to work with,” Ruiz said. “Although I’m an actress, I am not quite comfortable being in spotlight and I’m terrible on social media. So to say I was shocked and overwhelmed by the attention this week (especially the negative) is an understatement.”
She’s now in a new ad, parodying the Pelaton ad: https://www.businessinsider.com/ryan-reynolds-aviation-gin-ad-trolls-the-peloton-holiday-ad-2019-12
Actor Ryan Reynolds shared a cheeky new advertisement for his gin label Aviation Gin, and one of the actresses may look familiar.
On Friday evening, Reynolds tweeted the ad with a simple caption: “Exercise bike not included.” …
The Aviation Gin ad features the same “Peloton girl” actress, a source told Fox Business. In the gin advertisement she is not on a bike, but rather sitting at a bar with a frightened expression, sandwiched between two concerned friends.
“You’re safe here,” one friend says, before the trio cheers to “new beginnings,” and another friend says, “you look great by the way.”
The actor in the Pelaton ad, Sean Hunter, has also suffered backlash: https://www.businessinsider.com/peloton-holiday-commercial-actor-husband-interview-responds-viral-ad-backlash-2019-12
“My 5 seconds of air time created an array of malicious feedback that is all associated with my face,” Hunter told Psychology Today.
1-11. [Becky mad.]
*ahem*
Is this thing, ahh… yes.
Good morning.
First, let me say it is a pleasure to be here at the Dalrockian this morning. Such gracious hospitality. Thank you very much for hosting.
On to business, yes?
As proxy representative for casual white enthusiasm, and contingent on the league’s new prohibition on selfies and institution of a mandatory anti-narcissism penitential alms-giving program, it is my pleasure to announce that our draft pick will be…
…the happy, Phoebe Cates-looking ‘bish, in the yoga pants, on the exercise bike.
(Congratulations, darling. Go on, hold up your burqua. You earned it.)
Thank you.
@Oscar
Indeed this earth is all the paradise they are going to get.
A shame and a temporary mercy for the truly unrepentant.
In the gin advertisement she is not on a bike, but rather sitting at a bar with a frightened expression, sandwiched between two concerned friends.
“You’re safe here,” one friend says, before the trio cheers to “new beginnings,” and another friend says, “you look great by the way.”
This
is so low-T,
it turned my frog gay.
Do they test gin
for BPA?
Buy Gilette.
We are all impressed Joe. Don’t hurt your arm patting yourself on the back!
@Kid Charlemagne and Otto
Kid Charlemagne, you are unfortunately acting as the stereo-typical Catholic… I hope you want to improve, but regardless, your readers should be made aware of your false teaching.
I mean typical, in that you use only part of a Scripture passage in your post, as using the entire passage would actually refute your RC teaching. I notice you also neglected to include the reference, so your reader could easily find the error in your false teaching; I’ll help you with that below.
The very next verse in the Biblical passage contradicts your teaching, showing that we can commit the sins listed, but then still be accepted, despite our prior sins.
The whole passage from 1 Cor 6 is:
So yes, some people who have committed adultery will be in heaven. Praise be to God for his grace and forgiveness. No, this is not an invitation to go on sinning; see Romans 3:27-31 and Romans 6:15-23.
You will also note that the last sentence of the passage (“But you were washed, you were sanctified…”) makes no mention of needing the RC church for any man-made religious sacrament.
And all of your above restrictions (“PROVIDED…”) are unfounded in the Bible. Which you likely already know.
Truly unfortunate when people arrogantly decide that God’s words are not enough… so decide to add more of their own. I just read the part in Acts about religious people going out and trying to add commands to lay on new believers; you may wish to re-read Acts 15:24 and the chapter around it.
We need to confess Jesus as Lord (I like the term Master, as Lord is no longer used in our culture) and believe God raised him from the dead. Nothing and no one else is required for salvation. See Romans 10:1-13. The first 4 verses would be good for Kid C to read.
Dale U,
I get it. You adhere to Luther’s crazy teaching that “no sin will separate us from Him save unbelief”, and that, as a “saved” Christian, one may “commit adultery – nay, murder – a thousand times a day” and it will not affect one’s justification and salvation (the quotes are Luther’s own words). So Christians get a free pass to sin all they want. And that’s what you’re claiming, though you would try to phrase it in different words.
And you failed to address the words of Our Lord, taken straight out of the Gospel: “Not all those who say to me ‘Lord, Lord” will inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, but only those who do the will of My Father.” Could it be any more clear and explicit?
And as far as “man-made religious sacraments”, see the last chapter of John’s Gospel, where it explicitly describes the establishment of the sacrament of penance…when Our Lord delegates to His Apostles the power “to forgive men their sins”, and specifically to forgive some and to retain others, as they thought fit. Note that this was done already on Easter evening, by the newly-risen Lord!
And of course, “Do this in remembrance of Me” at the Last Supper was the genesis of the Mass. And “Go forth and preach the Gospel, baptizing all nations in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost” was the genesis of the sacrament of baptism, etc.
Finally, go read the Book of James in the NT. The whole point of that book of inspired Scripture is to refute your (and Luther’s) argument of “Faith Alone.” Which is why Luther wanted to remove it (along with Revelations) from the Bible, as he did a number of OT books. His followers, concerned the common folk would not stand for such mutilation of the NT, talked him out of it. So Luther left it in his Bible, contenting himself with derisively calling it in his letters an “Epistle of straw” that should be “thrown into the Elbe.” Too bad the Apostle James didn’t get Luther’s approval before writing his book of sacred Scripture, huh?
Sit down and actually read the Book of James (which even today, all Prots agree is the inspired Word of God). Then get back to me.
A bunch of people up stream were arguing what might have caused obesity and missed the easiest – we are a crap ton richer than in 1960 and so food is relatively cheaper and so people, lacking discipline, eat more of it. Its not the only thing, but its a huge thing.
Hmmm… watching that video maybe I will buy my wife a Peloton for Christmas.
Hamster
Can blame it on the NIV. I was using the 1984 version.
https://babylonbee.com/news/local-kid-beat-church-playground-carrying-niv
A more worthier and uncorrupted tale of manhood is that of the story “Lucius Artorius Castus”
http://self.gutenberg.org/articles/eng/Lucius_Artorius_Castus
A Roman King of which the legend of King Arthur is a distortion and parody of.
Lucius Astorius Castus was a centurion in Leggio III and served in other positions in several other Legion’s, but was never a king since the days of kingdom in the roman world had ended circa 400BC. Castus served in the 2nd century AD. Honor in this stoic culture was not uncommon during the 1st 700 years of empire. Point of interest in this culture, according to Mikhail Rostovtsev under Roman Law (on which we originally based much of our own) a father had the right to issue death to any member of his family, BUT was horrified at the thought of doing so,,, meaning it was not normally practiced. At the same time a father would give his life for his family which was practiced regularly. The interesting thing here is that just having this law in place kept the family from doing anything immoral automatically without fail, to include preying on each other. He also states that one of the cornerstones of Roman power was the cohesive family unit throughout its history. this culture to some degree is still evident in Italy today,,,just a bit of history.
@Kevin,
When America entered WWI, Europeans were amazed at how much taller the Americans were than their European counterparts (3 inches on average), even though they came from the same European stock. Why? Americans were simply better fed than Europeans. Even in 1900, America was swimming in food compared to the rest of the world.
America’s economic heyday was in the 1950’s and 60’s. The obesity crisis didn’t start till approximately 1990.
As far as food goes, I don’t think availability of food (at least in the USA) is the problem. Rather, it’s the type of food. Food that comes in a plastic bag, increased sugar content, emphasis on carbs over fat, fewer home cooked meals (due to women working) & more fast-food/microwave/instant dinners, easy delivery of junk food (pizza for example). In other words, I think the quality of the food we eat is the problem, not the quantity.
@Rum on “December 9, 2019 at 9:40 pm
My daughter is now a Fellow Of The American College of Surgeons and is fully accredited as a trauma Surgeon.
When she was back in her teens, I made sure that she became an excellent pistol shot with all the weapons that I had gifted to her. (all..4 cal & above)”
You could have raised your High IQ daughter to be a loving wife and mother, but instead you raised your daughter as a son because you wanted your daughter affection more than you wanted what was best for her. You are literally bragging about your selfish contribution to the dystopic trends of the West’s regression into barbarism. Congrats bro.
Slow clap for Rum.
Sounds like he raised a girl who is ok being away from her baby – he raised a defective woman.
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