Sometimes too much power too soon, or the wrong kind of power can be more of a curse than a blessing. We’ve all read about lottery winners ending up broke, or child stars who never recovered from the damage that too much wealth and fame did to them at an impressionable age.
First I should probably explain what I mean by female power. Not all power women wield is female power. Just like men and women both have testosterone and estrogen, each can have both male and female power. Both kinds of power are closely related to the respective gender’s sex appeal, but the two are fundamentally different. A man’s sex appeal is derived primarily from his male power. A [young] woman’s power is derived primarily from her sex appeal. As a result most young boys dream of being smarter, stronger, faster, funnier, and wealthier than other men; most young girls still dream of being prettier, more fashionable, and more popular than other women.
Male power is easy to understand and exercise, but typically takes many years for a man (or woman) to acquire. Female power is strongest when the woman is still very young, and is mostly the result of genetics rather than a long process of self improvement. Female power also is very difficult to spend, even though it can be extremely intoxicating. A comment by Jess on a post at Hooking Up Smart provides a classic example:
One of my friends did some lapdancing work at college. She used to loudly proclaim the benefits of the easy cash and the ego trip of having power over men.
Ego trip indeed. Men want her, and women want to be her. Who wouldn’t enjoy that? But converting this currency into spendable form has never been a sure bet, and has become much more difficult for women to do following the sexual revolution. Jess continues:
But its a slippery slope, she was tempted by a huge cash sum to go one step further and briefly dabbled in prostitution. Somehow she contracted a severe std and she said later it was the greatest regret of her life. I have not seen her for a few years now but she got really stung by the whole scene- I think eventually it jaded her view of men and sex, in addition to the physical symptoms of her infection.
Being rewarded for bad habits early in life typically is absolutely devastating to a person in the long term. Richard Ferri writes in the book All About Asset Allocation that one of the worst things which can happen to an investor is to get lucky early on in the stock market. Maybe they bet on gold or tech stocks going one direction or another and are proven right. They aren’t able to understand that this was simply good fortune because they had an underlying theory which caused them to expect this to happen. These investors typically spend the rest of their investing lives trying in one form or another to relive that initial glory, usually with disastrous results.
Female power at its core is about manipulating those with real power into using that power on the female power holder’s behalf. Sometimes it is fairly out in the open, as can be seen when an especially beautiful woman is treated to something free by a male working at a bar or store. In other cases it is more subtle, where an establishment might provide perks to beautiful women in order to attract men who will ultimately pay their own freight and that of the women. But the more subtle the form of power, the more fragile it tends to be. The gold-diggers at Dating A Banker provide a perfect example in their rant against bottle service:
It was a magical time. Picture the velvet rope scene outside of a XYZ trend-o-rama club. Hear the roar of the bouncer, “Three dudes no ladies? Just go home!” See the line of guys waiting to get in. Now see girls prancing to the front of the line and being ushered in without having to explain to Alex that they were invited to Joe Schmoe’s table.
Behold: Female Power! What could possibly go wrong? Our golddigging friends explain how bottle service shifted the power back to the men who were ultimately footing the bill in either case:
Bottle service changed all that… If you are willing to buy a bottle of grey goose with a 500% markup, then a club is willing – justifiably – to let you in even though you are in violation of the BYOB [Bring Your Own Babe] policy.
Now the men are in the center of the power position, and the women are “dancing in a crowded circle around a solitary table topped with a veritable grey goose totem pole”.
Sometimes the fragility of female power is far more brutal and traumatic, and the switch from feeling powerful to being powerless occurs in an instant. The blogger at No Nonsense Self-Defense explains this in the section Having Power and Losing Control in the context of his larger post on rape.
many young women don’t realize that the power and influence they have over young men is given to them by the men. It exists only AS LONG as the man is willing to listen to her. And, as stated earlier, the reverse also is true. Men only have power over women as long as they grant it to them.
But, many young and inexperienced women assume that the power and control they have over other people comes from within themselves(1). This gives them a false sense of confidence and often a dangerous overestimation of their own abilities. They assume that the power is always going to be there and that with words alone they can control others.
While this can be true as far as it goes, there are many situations where words no longer have power.
He follows this with an example where two men are engaged in a fight and the women in their lives are attempting to exercise power over them in this context. But their normal power over these men is totally ineffective. They are too focused in the fight itself for the women to have any impact on their actions. To the women this can come as a huge shock:
All in all the most common reaction is for the woman to stand in total shock and confusion when her normal influence is temporarily shut off by the male. For that moment in time, she has absolutely NO power or control over him. This sudden and unexpected stripping away of her perceived power and control is as much a complete and overwhelming shock to her as the savagery of the fight itself.
I’m not saying women shouldn’t exercise their female power. On the contrary, I’m arguing that they should exercise it to their maximum advantage. But they also should be aware of both the limits and the fleeting nature of that power and the need to balance this with more traditionally male forms of power. Manipulation is a dangerous habit, but a very difficult one to kick even long after its main effectiveness has worn away. Obviously many women already understand this quite well. Many others wouldn’t be open to learning this even if was explained to them in detail.
Excellent post, Dalrock! I was blown away by that comment by Jess. Frankly, a woman with an education taking up lap dancing is difficult for me to understand, regardless of the pay. Surely, she would understand that she is putting herself at risk getting intimate with men who are strangers. Taking the next step into prostitution really baffles me – this is not the decision a woman with a loving family background would be likely to make, in my opinion. There’s got to be a high level of risk-seeking and neuroticism there – I think some women believe that their sexual power is all they have to offer.
Thanks Susan!
Yes, that really was an extreme example. Whatever the reason, that woman clearly miscalculated in her efforts to get maximum value for her female power. My sense is that in most cases the miscalculations are much more subtle but in the end nearly as harmful.
Not so surprising. Didn’t some British woman recently publish a book on working her way through a doctorate in psychology by hooking? It also seems to me that either Slate or Jezebel once linked to a blog about an American woman who attended college on the hooker plan. It’s empowering, don’cha know?
Family background, risk-seeking and neuroticism aside, the lure of easy money with little time spent on the job leaving more time for study is often cited by those who do it as a reason that sex work makes sense for young women.
Intersting post as usual , Dalrock!
Some comments:
Female power at its core is about manipulating those with real power into using that power on the female power holder’s behalf.
That is traditionally true. In fact, I say that all power exercised from below is manipulative and, to a degree, female–at least by your definition. All underclasses everywhere have been viewed as sneaky and manipulative, seeking to control indirectly by getting those in power to protect them. That women use their sex and “womanly wiles” to do is no surprise. Think of Lucy of “I Love Lucy” as a comic example. Lucy could never demand or even ask for anything from the macho and volatile Desi. I saw the same dynamic play out between my parents. My dad was a less funny version of Desi. (Listening to someone scream in a foreigh langauge while tantrumming and slapping their own forehead is surprisingly not funny IRL.) My mother never confronted him directly. Instead, she manipulated the hell out of him. Same deal with my husband’s parents–a volatile man with a manipulative wife. As a result, my husband is extremely self-possessed, and I am very direct and non-manipulative, even confrontative. DH hates “womanly wiles,” which is part of what attracted him to me.
A [young] woman’s power is derived primarily from her sex appeal….most young girls still dream of being prettier, more fashionable, and more popular than other women.
Liberating us from all that, including the petty prostitution of using men for things like “bottle service,” by giving women real power was the goal of feminism when I was in college. One reason I am so resistant to the notion that all that attracts men to women is their looks/sexuality is that it consigns women to that sort of petty prostitution even, in some cases, with their own husbands. That’s what has women “dancing in a crowded circle around a solitary table topped with a veritable grey goose totem pole”. It’s an attempt to use “female power” to gain goods and protection from a guy with enough cash to pay a 500% mark-up on a a bottle (and enough social proof to gather crowd to watch him do it).
Your post, Dalrock is incomplete in two ways:
You talk of “real” power as if females didn’t have any.
Forget for a moment that manipulation often works.
You forgot about reproduction and the raising of the next generation. Short of rape, your reproductive success as a man is at least partly in a woman’s hands.
More to the point in todays society women as a group control more money than men as a group. I know you’ll look at Bill Gates and note that the list of the world’s wealthiest people is overwhelmingly male and think I’m nuts, but I’m not.
Women, you see, through divorce, through living longer, and through being daddy’s girl are actually in possession of more value in the stock market than men as a whole are. Other income streams that women tend to get that are unavailable to most men are paid for dates or other gifts (most gift giving is male to female) and alimony where many middle class men lose big-time esp. if they have (as can happen in a few states) alimony added to their child support.
In short, with their control of reproduction women have never been powerless in any society, with formal equality and informal subsidization (via such things as affirmative action) in this society they now control most of the wealth of the country.
And need I mention women make up most of the voters of the US?
Great post, Dalrock.
“Sometimes the fragility of female power is far more brutal and traumatic, and the switch from feeling powerful to being powerless occurs in an instant. ”
The more gradual version of this phenomena is what I was talking about when I said that the presence of people who, in earlier times, would be married and off the market has a distorting effect on the sexual market place. http://gameformarriage.blogspot.com/2010/09/augustines-maxims.html
Empirical evidence of all this can be found here: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-case-for-an-older-woman/
Dalrock,
Great post. I’ve tried to comment before on this, but it didn’t take. I’ll try again. Empirical evidence of the curse can be found here:
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-case-for-an-older-woman/
I was making a somewhat related point here:
http://gameformarriage.blogspot.com/2010/09/augustines-maxims.html
Ricky of The Rawness website wrote of female power in stages: sexual power (girlfriend), marriage power (wife), and familial power (mother).
So while the most obvious power that we see, the one being advertised and bombarded all over the place, is indeed most abundant for a woman when young, the power of a matriarch over her children and her family should not be underestimated.
As clarence points out above, women also have tremendous power in marriages. They can exercise this power even when their looks have faded. They also can be unscrupulous in misusing and abusing their powers.
Solid wife and mother power actually come from years of foundation and work, during which she accumulates her powers via being a constant and nurturing presence in her husband and children’s lives. It does not manifest immediately but after a long time. Truly powerful women understand that their feminine powers last via love and compassion, not their sexual appeal which is fleeting.
Great analysis Hope. All of those categories of female power you describe fit with what I had in mind, but as you say the sex appeal one has the most visibility. All of those powers though are about influence over others. When used properly this is a huge positive for all involved. When used improperly it becomes resented manipulation and eventually blows up in the woman’s face, just when she is least able to learn a new way of managing.
Hope is correct.
However, blatant abuse of, and mis-investment of their “girlfriend power” has led us to the current situation, where many of them will not get to experience/wield wife power or mother power.
Screw enough bad boys and flip off the good men, and no one will be there for them later.
They have put all of their eggs (heh.) in one basket.
Gonna be a lot of lonely women in the coming decades.
Hi Clarence,
I didn’t intend to argue that women are powerless. I was trying to address the double edged nature of the more traditionally female power. Manipulation often works as you say, but not forever. Sex appeal is great while it lasts, but fairly difficult for most women to convert into wealth (although you reference how this can be done). I would say it is certainly getting more difficult, at least. The biggest challenge I see is women becoming seduced by their own sexual power at an impressionable age, and not cultivating either the more mature forms of feminine power Hope references in her comment, or more traditional male forms of power (money, skills, etc).
As for women living longer, one thing which I found interesting when reviewing the actuarial tables is that much of this effect is due to very early life deaths of men. If a man and woman are both age 60 for example, the wife on average will only live about 2 years longer than the husband. The main difference is when you add this to the 5 or so years that husbands tend to be older than their wives. If he’s 65 and she is 60, she will on average live 7 years beyond his death.
Interesting & thoughtful post. Although the power and influence they have over young men is given to them by the men. It exists only AS LONG as the man is willing to listen to her”, this is true to a substantial extent of *all* forms of power. The power of a corporate CEO, for example, is dependent on the consent of shareholders, bondholders, employees, and most of all customers, and these can all be withdrawn. (Sometimes, of course, he doesn’t fully grasp this until it is too late)
Good insight about the dangers of getting too much power/success too early. A naval officer recently remarked that when he was promoted to command, his mentor told him that “You will now think you have become better looking, more powerful, and much wittier. Only one of these will actually be true.” The same thing likely happens with a very attractive woman; people laugh more at her jokes and are more respectful of her insights. The difference is that the naval officer is usually somewhat older when he achieves his first genuine position of power.
Screw enough bad boys and flip off the good men, and no one will be there for them later.
Agreed.
My biggest surprise was that she contracted an STD. I thought those had all been outlawed! Turns out they still exist. Who would have thunk?
Good analysis J. Part of what I had in mind when I wrote this was seeing older wives/mothers who had finally crossed the manipulation line with their friends and family. They end up powerless and alone at the worst possible time, and they have no idea how to try anything else. Not every woman gets stuck here, but some really do.
Liberating us from all that, including the petty prostitution of using men for things like “bottle service,” by giving women real power was the goal of feminism when I was in college.
You always have to be careful about trusting marketing brochures. Remember Communism was always about economic prosperity and freedom. Every time. Next time it will really work though.
“Gonna be a lot of lonely women in the coming decades.”
Not convinced on this, not in comparison to previous decades, you’d need some really widespread social behaviour to touch anything like the effects post world wars. A *lot* more single women in my grandmother’s generation than in mine. Granted the effects may not have impacted the US as much as the UK.
… seeing older wives/mothers who had finally crossed the manipulation line with their friends and family. They end up powerless and alone at the worst possible time, and they have no idea how to try anything else.
This has actually happened to my mother. I take care of her, but I cringe waiting for the manipulation to start. My husband avoids her and my sons, whom she loves in her own way, can’t deal with her. My dad’s temper had a similar effect on the family.
The truly sad thing though was that my parents reinforced each other. They were stuck in a cycle of bad behavior that he was as much to blame for as she was. Had he been easier to talk to, she would have manipulated less and the atmosphere in our home would have been better.
When I was a teenager, I had a burst of idealism during which I tried to be honest, direct and open with my father. His inability to deal with anything that “threatened” his position as “paterfamilias” eventually lead me to ignore him when possible and manipulate him when I had to. It made me respect him less. It took years from me to understand how, in trying to be strong, my dad actually weakened himself.
OTOH, it gave my a blueprint of what to avoid. I married a man I could be open and honest with and who as a lot of inner strength.
You really are mining some rich territory here J. My own folks fell into a similar pattern, each misusing their own power to shelter themselves from the kind of feedback which they desperately needed (and still need). On the female side it typically is manipulation. On the male side it tends to be more brute force. But the end results look very similar. Ironically the brute force method looks to me to be too much alpha.
Roissy talks about maximizing “hand”, but this is something which in excess can morph long term into exactly the kind of problem for men which you describe. I recall one commenter at Roissy bragging about how when his wife asked him about his surfing porn he made her cry and she never brought up the issue again. This kind of almost cleverness is very dangerous.
@Dalrock
You really are mining some rich territory here J.
That’s for sure!
My own folks fell into a similar pattern, each misusing their own power to shelter themselves from the kind of feedback which they desperately needed (and still need).
That’s the irony, isn’t. The desperate need for the very feedback they deny. I personally am still locked into this BS with my mom. She’s getting senile now and can STILL manipulate. It only ended with my dad when he died. Try as you may, they won’t let you out.
Ironically the brute force method looks to me to be too much alpha.
You know, that’s why I hate this terminology. The CR crowd would have called my dad an alpha and perceived him as a very strong man, a man to emulate. Though I loved him very much, I’ve called him an alpha thug. He had that sort of strength and liked to throw his weight around, but deep down inside, he was actually weak. My mom and I spent a lot of time sheltering him from things that would have angered or frustrated him or that he would have reacted inappropriately to.
He loved to downgrade my husband as soft, as incidentally did my FIL (another “alpha” thug), but frankly I admire quiet, patient, steadfast men more than I admired my dad. And certainly, my husband is far more effective and successful than either one of them. I can trust my husband to act rationally in emergencies. A loose cannon is no protection.
Roissy talks about maximizing “hand”, but this is something which in excess can morph long term into exactly the kind of problem for men which you describe….
Well, let’s consider the so-called alpha commenters on the blog. One has admitted to being diagnosed with a mental illness that he doesn’t want to take meds for despite being urged to by his father. (I fear for his wife and kid, and I don’t mean that in a snarky way. I say it because I onces worked with teens with mental illnesses.) Another routinely slaps women and claims to have impregnated a dozen women and had his GFs abort the babies. Yet another called me dirty names because in didn’t respond to his posts when I was busy with my family. Apparently, even random strangers must make him the center of their universes.
And these are alphas? Pleeeaaaase…. IMO, a real man doesn’t act like that. (And if that sounds like shaming language, oh well. 😉 )
Hand? Look, I agree, no woman wants a pushover. But no emotionally healthy woman wants to be dominated either.
On a lighter note, my DH and I had dinner with some other couples and the subject of who wears the pants came up. We were all teasing each other and trying to guess who wore the pants in each couple. One man said that he thought I’d be a handful, but one of the women said she thought my husband wore the pants. I said that no one really “wears the pants,” and my husband smiled dirtily and said, “It’s better that way.”
We seem to be in violent agreement on this J. I’m not sure, it might make for a good post all on its own.
I said that no one really “wears the pants,” and my husband smiled dirtily and said, “It’s better that way.”
Given everything we have just discussed, from what I know of game/attraction tempered with real life my suggestion would be that both of you would be happier if you had exactly the same relationship you now have, but had both answered that he wore the pants. The reality is, saying it doesn’t make him into a tyrant. He isn’t that guy. And your girlfriends would be secretly (or not secretly) jealous.
violent agreement
Great phrase.
I’m not sure, it might make for a good post all on its own.
It would actually.
my suggestion would be that both of you would be happier if you had exactly the same relationship you now have, but had both answered that he wore the pants.
How so? No one would have believed it.
Most people we know see me as a tough cookie with a hidden soft side and my husband as a cool character who knows that I can be volatile but sits back and enjoys the ride. I can’t imagine that anyone sees him a pushover. I think there’s a subset of guys who see my DH as tough simply because he can handle being with me. 😉
He isn’t that guy.
No, he isn’t.
And your girlfriends would be secretly (or not secretly) jealous.
Meh. I’m not one of those women who lives for that.
And, it would only alienate them anyway.
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And these are alphas? Pleeeaaaase…. IMO, a real man doesn’t act like that. (And if that sounds like shaming language, oh well. )
Well, maybe. A good man and an alpha are two different things.
Alphaness (in a relationship context) is defined by the number of women who desire him.
Don’t confuse “being alpha” with “being a good man” or “being an effective leader”. That is not how “alpha” is defined.
Alpha = leader of men (and women), amongst other things.
Ability to have sex with lots of women doesn’t make anyone an alpha. Especially not in this day and age (or even the 60s in western countries).
Alpha males do have that impact of course but one should one confuse cause and effect.
It would be great if being gay were a choice, since I could go dutch on all of my dates and have it be socially acceptable! Since I lack that particular gene, however, I am subject to the fierce competition not only with other men, but with the ladies’ internal mindsets themselves. I am optimistic, however, since the number of white single women who do not smoke, aren’t obese, dress respectably and reasonably, are between 18-30, are reasonably intelligent, and keep healthy might be relatively low, but a guy should still consistently be vigilant.
That was sort of my point. Alpha doesn’t equal good and I personally think goodness is a desirable trait in a man.
Lily-
You obviously want to have your own private definition of “alpha”. Feel free to do so, but most everyone else in this corner of the internet understands what the word means, not what you think it “should” mean.
Jack
I don’t think it is my own private definition..as far as I know, it’s the definition outside the PUAsphere.
Though even in the PUAspehere I’ve seen it described as 20% of all men. And obviously in this day and age more than 20% of men are able to get frequent sex with multiple partners. And I think if I told alpha males that I know that ability to get sex with many women was the only thing that defined them as an alpha male, they would frankly be insulted. They have a lot more going on in their lives.
I can always tell an alpha male, for example a group of 3 workmen started work at my house today. I spotted the alpha as soon as he walked in. I don’t know whether that’s an intrisic thing women have. I mentioned it to my partner who laughed it off, but at the end of the day he said to me after he’d observed them that he agreed with me But whilst this workman was an alpha and IMO none of the others were, at least 3 of them would be able to go out pubbing/clubbing every Saturday night and have sex that night.
I do agree, however, that goodness does not equal alpha. There are obviously betas who are good men and alphas who are not good men. One doesn’t preclude the other, should not be used in a definition.
Lily,
What is confusing you is that there are three types of male alpha’s:
A. Leader of Men types
B. Good with the ladies types
C. The lucky bastards who are both
In order to be a “natural” alpha one must have either always been a leader, always been good with the ladies, or both.
And most men have some alpha traits, as well as some “beta”, “gamma” , “omega” whatever traits as well.
Hope that clears things up a bit.
And yes, some alphas are assholes who deserve the death penalty and others are just great all around guys.
Clarence,
I’m not confused…Jack said to J “Don’t confuse “being alpha” with…..“being an effective leader”. That is not how “alpha” is defined.”
Sorry, just realised there was a mistype in my previous post, I meant to type “I can always tell an alpha male, for example a group of *7* workmen started work at my house today.
1 was an alpha, at least 3 others were certainly not would be able to get SNLs easily pubbing/clubbing on Saturday nights, just being above a threshold in looks and personable enough. It’s not hard in England in those environments where there is a lot of alcohol around and women looking for a good time. The other 3 weren’t immediately obvious, but I only met them all today and of course if any of them had any game they should be able to bypass other factors.
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If this article had to be boiled down to one golden sentence, it would be: “Men derive sexual value from power, women derive power from sexual value.”
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My Grandmother at 60 rocks the social dances in Brooklyn, NY. She has all the elder men lining up to dance with her. Charm, self-confidence and shinning happiness never ceases no matter what your age. Grandma gets a lot of men who want to take her to dinner etc. There are so many older charming, scintillating people over 50.
Women will always have power because not only do they possess a vagina which most straight men cave, but they also possess that soft, feminine nurture side. We need women and seek their approval. Every man on his death bed I guarantee wants a woman be it his mom, wife by his side. Adding to this, just look at the parent that most people look into the camera and say “Hi” to at events which are filmed for TV; it’s always a person waving and saying: “Hi Mom”.
Gold-digger is a “control” tactic that is uttered to take away a female’s power to seduce.
I agree that this author writes as if women had no other real power other than charm and pussy power. Reproduction. Even women as old as 60 can still successfully reproduce. Sperm banks won’t accept a male’s sperm if he’s older than 35 so we must seek permission of a woman if he wants to bred, thus he better have something good to offer a woman, like mental stability, and resources.
In sales, it’s always the woman who makes the final decisions on major purchases. And it’s women consumers that keep our economy marching forward.
And, I agree with you that “Women, you see, through divorce, through living longer, and through being daddy’s girl are actually in possession of more value in the stock market than men as a whole are. Other income streams that women tend to get that are unavailable to most men are paid for dates or other gifts (most gift giving is male to female) and alimony where many middle class men lose big-time esp. if they have (as can happen in a few states) alimony added to their child support.”
My little girl has me wrapped around her finger. She’s a princess, but get this: I love her and love giving to her. Her mother got me in the same way when I met her at 35 years old. We men need women and it means a lot of us that we are needed, and valued by women and children.
@Glen Bates,
I consider the sum of your comments to mean that you are a pathetic reprobate. I have no respect for your opionions and I woulnd’t trust you farther than I could throw you. How do you “Know” what men want on their death bed? How many death beds have you been too? Before you spew your simpering, tear soaked montage to how little of a man you are and how much your wife and daughter have you wrapped around their finger, Perhaps realize that othermen actually have a backbone and are not shivering manginas. YOU are not the man that would gladly give his life for his freedom, for his country. You are the man that would stab other men in the back for “princess”.
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