Sarah Boesveld of the Canadian National Post wrote an article commemorating the 100th anniversary of men standing aside and drowning so that women on the Titanic could enjoy additional leg room on the life boats. The Post titles her thoughtful piece:
Titanic Anniversary: Is a man brave or condescending if he lets women and children go first?
No word on a rumored follow up piece commemorating the Spartan 300 at Thermopylae tentatively titled:
How hard would it have been for them to put the toilet seats down before they went into battle?
I don’t have time to write a detailed take-down of this latest piece of gruesome hand wringing that more men didn’t perish in the Costa Concordia. However, I didn’t see anything new so a link to my previous posts on the subject should hopefully suffice.
I was rather surprised that none of my favourite bloggers sought fit to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the disagreement of the RMS Titanic with the Iceberg – until now. A rather significant date for the MRM. In Belfast where Titanic was built, a new memorial naming the thousand plus victims has been unveiled. As 90% of the victims were male the monument records their names. How long I wonder, before women start claiming that the monument is sexist as it fails to give equal recognition to Women? Given the article you link, presuably, not long. So now we know, men would rather be condescending and die an icy death rather than save themselves first, the selfish misogynists!
@Opus,
They will just put all the names of the survivors sans men on the memorial too, because their suffering afterwards is worthy of the same recognition as the men who not only stood aside to allow the women and children to go first, but assisted them in going, and carrying things to the boats that might be needed, and of course beating and killing men who tried to get on the boats before the women and children.
@ Helig Ko
Ah, the suffering – I forget that – though in fact most women are programmed to overcome loss of a husband rather quickly. That reminds me of the Evo-Psych reason for staying behind. The man who stays behind – and survives – will be seen as attractive to women, as being brave and resourceful. Of course on The Titanic – as in Flander’s Fields, – the men had no chance (but the hind-brain doesn’t know that). Women thus bite the hand that feeds them by seeing the men’s action as condescending, when in reality it is the reverse, namely fitness-preening.
@Opus
I think there is much more to it than that. It takes a great deal of social pressure to convince entire groups of men to stand firm in the face of mortal danger. The Greeks had perfected this with the Phalanx, but this was something extraordinary. In the case of Titanic it was strong social conditioning to sacrifice for the good of others. Either way it is largely a western phenominon, so it can’t be that simple. Calling it fitness-preening stikes me as offensive as calling it condescending.
She can easily be reached by phone by their 1-800 number… just saying.
*Sigh*
I am sickened to no end by lefty writers like her, with BS degrees, zero insight, nothing but a ‘token’ feminists for right-wing newspapers get fat pay cheques, while papers die, and high-quality bloggers suffer in obscurity.
“commemorate the 100th anniversary of the disagreement of the RMS Titanic with the Iceberg…” Love it.
Maybe it should be called, “The iceberg’s stand for right of way.”
“No word on a rumored follow up piece commemorating the Spartan 300 at Thermopylae tentatively titled:
How hard would it have been for them to put the toilet seats down before they went into battle?”
’nuff said. And hysterically funny!
Feminist Titanic headlines:
“Iceberg strikes death blow against patriachy!”
“Women’s superior survival rate on Titanic proves we are ready!”
The arrogance of feminists is limitless. The question they should ask themselves is:
Are women condescending for expecting men to prioritize women who are strangers along with children?
OT – I’m sure that this will surprise no one; but according to this item in the Telegraph, a survey was undertaken that asked men and women to self-assess their “morals”, and women graded themselves as being more moral than did men:
Women are more moral than men, survey says
Women are more moral than men, with those over 30 years old having the strongest values, a survey has suggested.
Also OT, but a great line:
“Someone give Katie Roiphe a Ph.D in Women’s Studies, written in crayon on the back of a Burger King placemat!”
Seems Roiphe has written a piece for Newsweek on “The Fantasy Life of Working Women” in which she uses as her references:
2 books quoted
4 books name-checked but not quoted
2 movies
1 TV show
3 vague internet searches
2 magazine stories
2 quotes from other women’s writing
2 quotes obtained by speaking to someone
The whole take-down can be found here:
http://gawker.com/5902286/your-rape-fantasy-is-boring-katie-roiphe
Up until about 200 years ago, it was pretty much men and children first, as the understanding was that men could best protect and provide for the children.
This can be seen in that Ancient Roman Epic on Pietas, The Aeneid, with Aeneas’ flight from Troy as it is burning. Aeneas shoulders the burden of his father and his son (as well as gathering followers to escape the advancing Greeks.) In the chaos his wife, Creusa, is killed. Her ghost tells him that his destiny is in Italy, and the story is about following that destiny for his son and his followers (in the course of which he meets and abandons Dido, a story which later formed the basis of ‘Romeo and Juliet.’)
If I remember correctly on the Titanic, the only men who didn’t follow the “women and children” dross were still decendents of Aeneas (Italians.)
So by their convolted logic:
When women and children die men are hardest hit.
Makes sense in a sort of way as dead men is in a state of eternal sleep.
Seamus: Well, it’s not like Aeneas left Creusa to die! He got separated from her and ran back into the burning city to try and find her, but it was too late.
I think we are way over-reacting. Her message is clear. We men are being forced to accept that when next we are caught on a sinking ship, the feminist line is to throw all the women into the freezing water as quickly as possible, so that they may be spared the ignominy of getting a seat on a lifeboat. That painful fate is to be ours.
Start practising your lines chaps. When you are rescued from the sea along with all the other men, with female corpses floating all about, you did it because being saved is a fate worse than death itself. Demand a monument for this new level in sacrifice. The Canadian press will pay for it.
It never ceases to stun and disappoint me that, when considering the women in the lifeboats of the Titanic, it is unthinkable to note that those women were not forced nor robbed of choice. At any moment each could have dived into the sea to make way for another child, or another woman, or another man. Each and every one of them selfishly kept her seat in what could be construed as the greatest recorded collective act of feminine passive-aggressive mass murder in history.
We have the testimony of, again, each and every one of those women that they got the better part of the deal, because for the rest of their lives, however “impoverished”, they chose life every day they lived, when they could choose death, even a death of diving into freezing waters if they preferred.
The author defies and denies the life of every female survivor of the Titanic to write her screed, and the stories of all of their lives call her “Liar!”
And, when I recover just a bit, I realize that, largely, the readers of this sleazy manipulative lament let it pass without comment, when they ought to end the career of the writer with outrage.
Then I feel very alone in the world.
That social programming exists today, there is a Sienfield episode where George runs out of a building when he thinks it’s on fire, the whole premise being that he was a coward for not evacuating the children and woman first and immolating himself in the fire voluntarily.
The comments I read were at least more sensible than not. Seems there are enough men who maybe cannot identify the smell, but know when something stinks these days and try and wade in with some Lysol
My comment is a bit off-topic for this particular thread, but I believe it is on-topic for this blog. I hope this may be of interest to some of you.
This is a field report from my recent weekend at a professional training conference. I am a woman who is employed in a female-dominated job – I am a dental hygienist. The conference included several continuing education classes.
One of my classes had to do with recognizing signs of abuse and how to handle suspected cases of abuse in our dental patients. The instructor for the class about abuse has worked for many years as a forensic dentist. He has assisted various police agencies in building legal cases against abusers by using dental evidence such as bite marks. He pioneered some computer software programs for this purpose. He has identified human remains in mass-casualty situations such as plane crashes by examining the dental evidence. In short, the man is an expert in the field of forensic dentistry, and he presented a tremendously interesting class to us. Part of the class had to do with recognizing signs of physical abuse. He cautioned us that children are slightly *more* likely to be victimized by a woman than by a man. He also advised us that we should be cognizant that men are just as likely to be victims of domestic violence as women are. The lecture accompanied photographs in powerpoint as he discussed various cases he has worked on. One unfortunate victim was a man who was bitten on his penis by his wife. The photographs were just horrifying. The penis was not bitten off, but it was badly cut and it looked tremendously painful. It was heartbreaking and sobering to have to learn so much about such a sad topic, but it was good to see what I believe is a fair representation of physical abuse and how it breaks down by gender.
On a lighter note, another class had to do with overall fitness and general health and wellness, and how these topics relate to the practice of dentistry. The instructor for this class was an exceptionally fit woman. Truly, she looked amazing. She is a pilates and yoga instructor, and it shows! By her appearance I had guessed her age to be early- to mid-40s, but during her lecture she mentioned that she and her husband were about to celebrate their 30th wedding anniversary, so I guess that would probably make her in her mid 50s. When she mentioned the upcoming anniversary, she got kind of dreamy-eyed and told us that she loved him more now than she did all those years ago, and it just keeps getting better and better. She told us how lucky she felt to be married to him, and that he was a terrific guy. She even got a little giggly about it. It was really sweet to see. I think her husband is pretty lucky to have a wife of 30 years who looks incredible and is crazy in love with him. This made me really happy to see.
Opus: Women thus bite the hand that feeds them by seeing the men’s action as condescending, when in reality it is the reverse, namely fitness-preening.
surely theyre devouring the hand, but i reject Evopsych on this (and scientism in general)
titanic, flanders, etc — those men displayed incredible courage and honor — albeit unappreciated by beneficiaires of same (females and wealthy men)
their actions were appreciated by God tho, b/c they express part of the unique greatness he breathed into the human male
boys and men wont always be used/wasted such — i’d like to preserve the impulses but ensure theyre channelled in ways bearing little resemblance to past, uh, usage
@Dalrock & Ray
Do I detect a denial of Evolution by way of Natural Selection? – some Christians accept it to be correct, some don’t and some (Catholics) hedge their bets.
There seems to be a notion that woman in any given situation have as a form of currency the lives, convenience, health, time and self-repect of of any men that happen to be in their vicinity. They can write ridiculous articles discussing the ethics of how and why this happens as if men cannot make up their own minds. It’s that hubris that is so telling. Guess what, I will sacrifice myself for who I want to, when I want to, how I want to., and I really don’t see myself caring about societal approval should I choose to sacrifice or NOT. The ladies and their white knights can hand wring all they want and armchair quarterback my ehtics and my bravery/cowardice all they want, that won’t change the fact that the very act of judging is an act of cowardice in itself.
This author, and those suffragetes didn’t have to face the fear of certain death on that fateful night. They didn’t have to contemplate freezing in ice cold water and what lay on the other side, the panic and terror in the hearts of those who cold have easily, by force, not have chosen to die that night.
The choice was the mens and that is TRULY what galls the feminists. (Whether to be traded as currency for a seat on a bus or to go down with the ship). It galls them that men can still choose to sacrifice or not. All value systems should be feminist, egalitarian and men should be subject to the peck order established by the biddies.
Oh, I get it:
The iceberg stands for mother nature, is part of gaia or whatever and is therefore female.
The Titanic, being MAN-made in both the literal and figurative sense is therefore male.
The poor iceberg thusly experienced a sudden and brutal rape by the attempted penetration of the phallic ocean liner. And the name ‘Titanic’ seems to be compensating for some deficiency as well. The designers probably were not well-endowed.
All ocean travel is rape, then. Andrea Dworkin, please call your office.
On a side note, perhaps the kindest fate for the beta male is a quick and relatively painless end, rather than suffering the “thousand natural shocks” of realizing the true nature of females.
Better to die on the field of battle, imagining that sweet Betty Lou is waiting by the mailbox for your love letter, than to come home and find out the classless little strumpet has been riding some other guy.
I wonder how many battle heroics came in the days after receiving a Dear John letter?
@flirtyintrovert,
Yes, but Aeneas’ least concern was looking out for a full grown women. Today, inspite of or more likely because of liberation, full grown men are expected to look out for full grown women. Aeneas of course went back to look for her, but not after he had taken care of his duty (‘pietas’ which is the main ethos of the Aeneid.’) So we can gather from that that savin damsels (i.e. full grown women) was not ‘pietas’ or ‘duty’ of a man.
And remember folks, Aeneas was one of the paragons for Western virtue through the Fall of Rome, into the Middle Ages, until the Renaissance. So not even Knights followed what White “Knights” do today. The Western Virtue or Code of Chivalry was to “protect the defenseless.” So a man would (and this common sense) would choose to save and protect a child over a full grown woman.
And for the Evo-psych people, here’s a thought experienment: an Ice Age settlement is attack by a pack of maurading wolves, the defense fails, and it running times. Men, women, children rabbit for the hills, yes men too, in the flight the children obviously can’t keep up with the adults on their own. So the children have to be protected/carried by an adult, who would best do that, even the most Beta of males, with his superior upper body strength and longer stride would be more suited to carry a child to safety.
But the reality is that the alpha/beta paradigm really isn’t suited to humans.
@Professor Ashuer,
“I wonder how many battle heroics came in the days after receiving a Dear John letter?”
Probably none, if you know the fighting man or the hero mentality. Read the Iliad.
Just to use a small case, the Spartan stand at Thermopylae, all 300 were married men with sons. And they were older battle hardened veterans, who were inured to death, even their own. And it is not like the Spartans truly had an intact family structure either, but the men at Thermopylae, if they fought for a specific person it was probably to buy time for their sons and younger compatriots.
Men in fox holes have since time immemorial pretty much fought for each other.
Seamus-
By “battle heroics” I was not referring to what you are referring to. I was thinking more of someone who throws themselves into danger more recklessly due to despair.
I could certainly understand – a Dear John Letter at just the right time could make a man a bit more impulsive. Also, I was thinking more of the typical youthful conscript rather than a professional soldier.
Well I hope this at least partiallyputs to rest the idea that there is talking to women and appealing to empathy and compassion from a woman. Women will one day give up feminism and the misandry required but it sure as hell will not be out of kindness.
So blue piller take a look. Do you think there is any act of kindness you can do to gain a womens love and respect? These poor guys gave their life and this is how women see it. how much overtime can you work? How well can you do house work? That bitch can legally kill your kid. The church kisses her ass,the law kisses her ass,children take a back seat to her ass. Even sacrificing your life for her is not enough. Statisticly a higher percentage of children died on the titanic than adult women. MGTOW
Greyghost is correct.
I have begun to view the uncivilized female as largely amoral and Machiavellian. Entirely pragmatic as opposed to driven by principles definable as good or evil.
I like what Rollo Tomassi said:
Men believe that love matters for the sake of it. Women love opportunistically.
http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/12/27/women-in-love/
The author of that article is right… this sort of behavior really has gone on for long enough. To make up for the actions of those of our gender who oppressively drowned themselves aboard the Titanic when they forced women to safety, in the event of future maritime disasters we men should ensure that we are the ones who climb first into the lifeboats. Women should no longer be denied a mans right to a quick watery death in the event of a sea bound mishap. As men, we shall take on a womans obligation to ensure each lifeboat is filled to at least half capacity, (or near enough anyway). Our brave struggles to continue on with our lives once rescued shall serve as a testament to our desire for equality, and our committment to make up for the sins of our fellow man. As men, we should stand together, and just say NO! to concescention against women!
Thanks for the props Professor. Coincidentally I also wrote a piece on the Women & Children First dynamic around the time that all the pissings in the wind were going on about chivalry and the Costa Concordia disaster:
https://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/01/24/chivalry-vs-altruism/
http://www.theonion.com/articles/48yearold-man-actually-very-open-to-dating-25yearo,27339/
“The men got to die a quick death while women were left alone and impoverished.”
this is some fucked up shit.
dalrock, i have been thinking a lot about this victim mentality, i have been calling it PVM, pure victim mentality, and was thinking of comparing the PVM of feminist culture and black culture to the culture of the germans and jews and japanese, three groups that were hit so hard by WW2 but have come back with a vengeance.
in contrast, women — and blacks — keep on asking for more and more favors from society and from the government, but then continue to blame white men for all their problems. it is never their own fault.
also, women will never be half of congress or half of the fortune 500 CEOs because they don’t like to take big risks in life. i was just reading the book by tony hsieh, that dude has balls of steel, making millions because of his genius *logical* mind, then betting all of his millions on zappos, and winning big.
men either win big and end up as CEOs, or lose big and end up in jail or homeless or dead. we don’t see many women in jail, or homeless, or dead from war — but women never complain about that. it’s the apex fallacy i know, but i am just thinking of ways of communicating that in ways that the general population might understand.
i started with a saying, “society is a pyramid. men will always be at the top of the pyramid, and at the bottom, because they like to take big risks. women are always seeking work/life balance, so they will always be in the middle. not CEOs, but not homeless on the street.”
here is one version:
http://rivelinoinspain.wordpress.com/2012/03/04/there-is-a-pyramid/
anyway, i thought this was an idea that could really help us explain what is really going on, since i am so sick of all the feminist bullshit — and now, all the black bullshit surround trayvon martin. not sure how much you touch on racial issues, but the more i got into the TM thing, the more similar it seemed.
alright, just food for thought. i am looking to actually get away from all this stuff for a while, and focus on my photography, but these are ideas i wanted to share with you and the other men who truly know what’s up.
thanks man, keep up the great work.
This kind of vicitm mentality feminists have and now many women in general have is why we are going to see more and more men avoid female relationships period. hate to say it guys but no man wants to be with a woman who thinks his life is worth less than hers. I can see younger guys avoiding relationships because of this. Unsaved men will only use women for sex and you can forget about marriage. Christian men- will not be far behind if Christian women behave the same way. I have strong morals and would never use anyone as a sex object or as a sexual release, but some may. There are other ways of relieving sexual tension wihout having any kind of contact with a female.
Another good reason to avoid ocean cruisese with members of the oppostie sex aboard. LOL you might be considered part of the furniture instead of a human being with needs and vaule. The poor little “sweet helpless” wimmin need you to die for them since they can’t take their own luggage nor swim. I think if I ever decide to be stupid enough to go on an ocean cruise liner i’ll take my own inflatabile life wraft so i can jump off and save my own butt. Since I am single and have no kids I’d be one of the first men they would say has to stay behind and die for all the whoring single mothers who have kids by several different men out of wedlock. I guess to them I am just a disposable utility for entitled scum bag females. I read the article from female supremacist Sheila Gregorie- wow- i coudn’t beleive my eyes. And the comments by another one of her bloggers about how we only need a few men to repopulate the earth?! Such hatred of men- it’s unbeleivable. And these are so called “Christan” women. Some woman named Rachel- i think- was the one who left the comment about only needing one man to repopulate the earth?! So men are utlities to help the poor defenseless wimin and we are sperm donors to give the females a baby to keep the population going and to amuse the ladies? She sounds like an evolutionists as well as a female supremacist. The KKK has nothing on these despicable low life scum bag females. I even wonder how any of them ever get dates or ever got married with the kind of vitrol hatred coming from their lips! They wouldn’t get anything from me but a dirty look and if I’m in a really bad mood my uplifted middle finger.