Beach #1
Mrs. Yes makes it a point to be warm and inviting whenever her husband storms her beach. He is always welcomed with a kiss and a lei.
Beach #2
Field Marshal Gregoire has erected a few obstacles for her husband to overcome when he tries to storm her beach.
This way to the marriage bed?
As a result, it is slightly less inviting.
One night after a series of failed landings where her husband was thrown back into the frigid waters, he successfully navigated the obstacles.
The next day an unexpected gift arrived.
Is this a trick?
Field Marshal Gregoire was suspicious. Was this unexpected gift an attempt to trick her into not manning the guns?
After a thorough investigation she fortunately determined that in this case, a thoughtful gift was in fact a thoughtful gift. It would be absurd for a husband to attempt to manipulate such a wife, after all.
Image Sources:
Private beach image licensed as creative commons by Jarrod Trainque.
Atlantic Wall images (Machine Gun, Standing Guard, Low Tide, and High Tide) licensed as creative commons by the German Federal Archive (Bundesarchiv, Bild 146-1987-017-29A / CC-BY-SA)
Flowers image licensed as creative commons by Ian Muttoo.
So I guess a “Date Night” would be analogous to the Navel bombardment and massive bombing runs meant to soften the defenses and clear the beaches before-hand?
On D-Day, June 6, 1944, the bombing runs missed their targets and the Navy didnt fire nearly as long as they planned due to horrible visibility conditions, so I guess the analogy works as deeply as you want to take it.
Related
http://www.salon.com/2013/01/30/why_do_rape_laws_still_protect_spouses/
You are aware that it is 2013, right?
Also related:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/want-more-sex-survey-says-stop-helping-chores-213917047.html
Don’t read Salon, it will just make you depressed.
Oh, and fuck you Alex Pereene.
“A Tale of two B*tches”… clever … 😀
That gift is a trojan horse!!!! Time to lay more land mines.
Modern day marriage is more like successfully storming the beach and claiming victory, only to have the politicians of both sides declare a truce and then charge you in the International Criminal Courts for going against the Geneva Convention and committing war crimes. You go from victory celebrations, aka marriage, to sitting in a cell at The Hague awaiting trial, aka divorce court, wondering why you ever listening to your leaders, aka Church Pastors and other elders, who fed you useless information about enemy tactics and positions forcing you to go above and beyond any normal means, aka game, which then just gets you in trouble and into jail for following orders.
I’m more of a spectator than a believer in what you guys say, but good god, that second one is very hypocritical and man blamey. Especially towards the end.
She says “See a doctor if you have male sex dysfunctions and it’s not porn related, it’s your fault if your wife is unsatisfied even if you’re fine with less sex.”
Then the next thing she says is “Accept it if your wife just doesn’t want it sometimes.”
Not that I agree with the whole “let’s throw out marital rape laws, your wife always owes you sex” mentality that some of you have, I’m just pointing out the blatant double standards she seems to have.
I wonder if Mr. Gregiore was able to feign happiness, enthusiasm and interest as he picked through the jagged barbed wire and faced the onslaught of verbal attacks and overall repulsion.
I’m no good at that, my face gives away the truth.
It appears to be a mark of success to be “empowered” enough to emasculate a man.
While this might inspire awe amongst the hen mafia, it inspires something else in the actual men involved.
Disgust.
I wonder how the men fake it, cover it up, and pretend they still like her. I wonder if even Mr/ Gregiore has placed his illustrious wife on the Ticking Clock. If he has, she’ll never know, until it detonates. I tried to fake it- pretend that I still super-liked my wife… I’d never be able to pull off that act again, and I forget how in the world I managed to pretend, and still offer up a kiss to the person who despised me so.
Her posts, after he wipes out and bails, will surely prove to be quite enlightening.
The infuriating thing is that there are men out there who prefer a hand grenade over a margarita.
I can’t remember who said it (it was a poster here some weeks ago I think), but the phrase has stuck with me like a sliver in my mind:
“Marriage is a commitment to disadvantage”
Feminist Hater, sounds like your Ex was Portuguese too! lol
(I can laugh about it now……….)
Fantastic imagery, Dalrock! My comment was delayed until I could stop laughing!!!
This captures the foolishness of feminism perfectly — taking something beautiful and fun and turning into an impossible stress test:
Men: “Full-speed ahead! Keep moving forward, men. There is only safety victory!
Women: “It’s a trap!”
Excellent. Just excellent.
Very humorous take on this, I think. Well done.
Field Marshall Gregoire is a tree stump-stupid, hyena-faced howling hideous huffbucket that could scare the stink off a pile of camel shit.
Mother of God, what the hell has happened to Western women?!
Mrs. Gregoire is doubting her husband because she thinks that he is doing what she would likely do if the roles were reversed.
As far as I could understand Gregoire’s post, she says that:
1.) If your wife has a lower sex drive than you do, that’s your problem.
2.) If you have a lower sex drive than your wife, that’s your problem.
I’m not sure what a wife’s obligations are in Gregoireworld, but it doesn’t sound like marriage there is a worthwhile proposition for a man.
@Twenty…or you could even go more general with marriage.
If your wife has a problem, that’s your problem.
If you have a problem, that’s your problem.
And that’s why single life is so enticing…sure I have problems, but they are 1/10th of the problems your average princess has.
According to Gregoire, all men are natural louts. Well, until the magical vagina comes along of course. And with denial of sex at the vanguard of the offensive against loutful husbands all around the Western World, men are sure to get on board and marry these prideful, boastful and manipulative women. All hail the brave wimmenz brigade leaders, hail!
“Mrs. Gregoire is doubting her husband because she thinks that he is doing what she would likely do if the roles were reversed.”
Ouch, Stingray nails it in one.
@ Feminist Hater….
No kidding…without a vagina how the hell would I be able to feed, clean, and keep up a household by myself. How I was able to find a job…I’ll never know. I should start telling women what a miracle I am to have survived this long without their domestication.
Funny comparsions. Why girls cant understand how easy it is to be desirable is great sadness of our times.
> If you’re the one with the lower sex drive, and it’s not because you’re using porn, see a doctor.
Uhh… Can you imagine anyone telling a *woman* to do this?
“Mrs. Gregoire is doubting her husband because she thinks that he is doing what she would likely do if the roles were reversed.”
I disagree. She would likely berate and threaten her husband into submission, were the roles reversed. Coaxing with displays of affection probably wouldn’t cross her mind.
Would you rather be happy, or right? That’s a question my father once asked me when I asked him why he was putting up with a veritable hail of whining from my mother. As it turns out, he should have been asking my mother the question.
Men tend to ask themselves this question on a regular bais, opting for happy. For women, the idea never occurs. Everything is about truth, justice, and the feminine way.
The fact is women were self-reportedly more satisfied with their lives when they spent their days caring for their children, maintaining the house, cooking delicious meals, and exercising so she could flash her husband a view of her shapely thighs as she headed upstairs for the night. Never mention this fact to the modern woman as it will give them the vapors. “But that’s, not right! Women didn’t have CHOICES! They were basically SLAVES! They didn’t have INDEPENDENCE! There’s no way they could have been happy.”
My theory is that once women get over this need for their ideas to be “right,” they’ll find a quiet and serene peace and a level of excitement they never thought possible at the same time. We do have choices and independence, however to pretend that there are not “poor” choices misses the point entirely.
So in one piece of advice I must learn to touch my wife’s clit and in the previous I must learn to touch and not expect it to go anywhere. I’m confused.
Rocky Horror seems to have better advice Toucha Toucha Touch me!
Saving Ryans privates
iforget, I’ll take the first B*tch anyday!
Field Marshall Gregoire was raised to believe she was at war. She is probably incapable of seeing the beach as anything other than a vulnerable spot. In a way, she’s only hating her own body.
Mrs Yes, on the other hand, recognizes that her man loves hanging out on the beach, and that she is supposed to be the only provider for such activities for her husband in a committed relationship. She takes this responsibility seriously and provides what is needed. She does this much as a man provides income, shelter, technical help, and muscles when needed.
@A
People do tell women to do this. It’s not at all unusual for the woman to have a lower drive due to a medical condition, or a bad pill combination, or any number of factors that are correctable with medical attention.
empath, I believe his ‘privates’ were saved just in time for their first court date. In the story, Saving Ryan’s privates, his 3 other brothers all got out of divorce court proceedings by dying on the battlefield in Europe and the Pacific. The new feminised army couldn’t let this travesty continue and merely allow the 4th brother’s soon to be ex-wife not to have her cash and prizes from her hubby fighting far away on the distant front against other naughty men who likewise are dying before their divorce proceedings are over and the correct amount of alimony can be imputed on their soon to be dead bodies.
FH, lets roll with the script. This could be amazing. You got my point.
Gregoire’s opinion w.r.t. porn is very interesting. She considers it cheating, but fails to analyze why her man might seek porn instead of a Wife/S.O. Basically, shes saying that any use of this forbidden fruit is wrong, but the desire to use an easy road to a substitute rather than storming the beach and getting shot down has nothing to do with her.
So, remember boys, if you find a deserted stretch of sand to set the cooler down and set up the bbq just offshore, you’re cheating. However, losing a portion of your ego in a minefield is proper.
Well, the Field Marshall Gregoire gets together with the High Flying Generals of the Allied Forces. Obviously they’re all women now as women need to train those loutful men of the army by withholding vital vagina time. Just because they’re no women serving on the front lines, doesn’t mean that they’re not doing their part for the offensive against those naughty German Nazis who want to ‘marital rape’ and ’emotionally abuse’ their Fraus back home. Naughty Nazis, I bet Hitler raped Eva Braun constantly at Auschwitz! A feminist told me that, so it must be true!
Now back in the United Feminist States of Feminist America (UFSofFA), the wimmenz brigade gets on with divorcing their impotent and sex crazed husbands (yes, that’s a contradiction but these are women, so it’s correct). As they do this they are also receiving telegraphs from the front with the deaths of men reaching epic proportions. How will the other poor wimmenz of the UFSofFA continue without the alimony and child support from their dead ex-husbands? No one knows?
The difference between a wife and a ho is that you’ll pay 100 times more for the wife… and get 100 times less!
How will the other poor wimmenz of the UFSofFA continue without the alimony and child support from their dead ex-husbands? No one knows?
This informs the sequel
Shaving Ryans Privates’
Field Marshall Gregoire comes up with a brilliant idea to defeat the evil of evilest, damn naughty German Nazi, wife beating Bastards.
Collude with die ‘Fraus van Deutschland Organisation Against Nazi Penises Everywhere’ or FDOANPE for short. After colluding with them, together they will use the ‘Achtung, achtung! Vergewaltigung! Vergewaltigung!’ propaganda pamphlets and by dropping them all over Germany, the German women will rise up and defeat the naughty German Nazi Bastards and declare the Democratic Feminist ‘Males don’t vote’ German Women’s Republic of Women (DFmdvGWRofW).
Other women around the UFSofFA agree that this is a mastery of planning and to the applauding of superior wimmenz everywhere, she gets directly promoted to President For Life Elect.
The fact is women were self-reportedly more satisfied with their lives when they spent their days caring for their children, maintaining the house, cooking delicious meals, and exercising so she could flash her husband a view of her shapely thighs as she headed upstairs for the night.
Well, in fact, most women didn’t even exercise. They cooked meals but nobody demanded that they were delicious: they only had to be edible. They had no boss, no schedule and they worked with the people they loved most in the world (their children, when they were not at school).
They gave up on this cushy and happy existence only because some radicals told them that having a job was a paradise. They imagined that men were having great fun slaving themselves every day and they were banning women from all this fun. They stormed into the workplace, expecting a “Sex and the city” lifestyle…If something proves that women are stupid, it is exactly that.
Fast forward 40 years and some women are beginning to suspect that they have been sold a bill of goods. The brightest ones can realize 20% of that, while the rest keeps on believe feminist absurdities. Slow learners, aren’t they? Women are dim.
Against Nazi Penises Everywhere’ or FDOANPE for short.
Like that old joke that ends, “Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day”?
I disagree. She would likely berate and threaten her husband into submission, were the roles reversed. Coaxing with displays of affection probably wouldn’t cross her mind.
Ok, I don’t read her blog at all. Let’s go with this then, she thinks her husband thinks like a woman and is distrusting of his gesture because that is how another woman would manipulate feelings to get what she wants.
Dalrockiscool says:
Oh sorry, I thought it was 1957…
Now the feminists got women(but not radical feminists) the right to fight in the front lines, they can storm the beaches.
Dalrock, empath, FH….ya’all need to get together and pool your money and buy me a new monitor, since you’re all responsible for the coffee sprayed all over it!
lozlzolzolzolzolzolzol
Empathologism, I actually told that joke to a woman named Wendy once. She took it pretty well.
Come on vacation,leave on probation!
Meanwhile,unbeknownst to the the would be beach users,fieldmarshal
Frau is filling ICBM silo’s with VAWA funds,and they GET USED on a regular basis.
Most of the beaches are bristling with heavy doses of radiation,and will not be inhabitable for eons.
I actually told that joke to a woman named Wendy once. She took it pretty well.
WHAT?!
So are the things that Shelia Gregorie mentions in her post unreasonable?
Yes, she is using sex as a weapon against her husband in direct conflict of Scripture and then justifying in a coat of nice sounding lies.
Yes T, its ridiculous. Some specifically, and others just in general because it sets CONDITIONS.
But the part about “touch without expectations”, and “don’t let her get tired” are silly.
T:
“So are the things that Shelia Gregorie mentions in her post unreasonable?”
Not per se. The problem is that in Field Marshal Gregoire’s view, these things are all preconditions for sex. The wife is not making it easy for him to approach her. Instead, the husband is required to do things, to remove obstacles, to EARN sex.
A husband is ENTITLED to sex from his wife. The “earning” part was taken care of when he said “will you marry me”, she said “yes” and they stood in front of God and everybody and said “I do” and “I will”.
If she did not want to give her husband frequent, good, regular sex, she should have said “No”.
Just look what the bitches have gone and done:
http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/01/31/Gay-dog-saved-from-euthanization-thanks-to-Facebook-campaign/6981359646899/
@ deti – I see. I saw most of that list as things that husbands should be doing anyway. So the problem is that she doesn’t say that even if he doesn’t bother with any of that, then she should still have sex.
Basically the wife sets the conditions for sex. If that is the case…then the man should set the conditions for his protection, provision, and commitment.
If he doesn’t feel like it or he is tired then she should just fend for herself. If he want to marry somebody else…why not? What a wonderful marriage that would be.
The problem is a woman dictating how things are going to be, not that the things are bad.
If she is a Christian, but asserting authority over her husband and requiring his deference, she is out of order and in rebellion.
But see, she isn’t rebellious because underneath, she doesn’t see God as Lord and Master. She, by her actions and outlook, has said “ehhh, let’s just be friends” to the Lord.
She isn’t taking orders from God, or her man. Neato!
Except that taking orders is the mark of a good servant. It is how we show love. Her defiance translates directly to disrespect and a breakdown of the unit. He has responsibilities, and so does she. She is in breach of contract and covenant.
THAT is the problem.
Treating women well is wonderful. I’m all for it… if, in fact, their behavior warrants it.
Hahaha. Very good analogy Dalrock. Hostility is naturally responded to with hostility.
@T
Is it unreasonable for a man to help occasionally with vacuuming, cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc..? Of course not.
Is it unreasonable for a man to accept 50% or more of the child rearing responsibilities? of course not.
Is it unreasonable for a man to spend a day or two with the mother-in-law unexpectedly because the wife forgot to inform him of a calendar event? of course not.
These things are not unreasonable. The attitude that specific social/economic/physical/mental conditions must be met for a woman to meet her mans needs or the wife gets unhappy is a completely unreasonable attitude.
Men don’t lay such complicated restrictions down on their marital provision obligations… mostly because they are obligations and required for survival. Women in the developed world have by-and-large decided that the survival of the species is less important to them than their happiness, which is part of the reason the birth rates in developed (feminized) countries have plummeted BELOW maintenance rates. White women are not having babies, and the populations of European nations are in serious decline. I find this a result of a completely unreasonable attitude by women towards their biological role in the propagation of the species, brought to you by Feminism.
Let’s look at Der Field Marshal Gregoire’s demands (er) recommendations.
1. Tell your wife she’s beautiful.
Ummm, Most men are not going to call their wives fat slobs and then go for the nookie. Most men think their wives are beautiful. But even this isn’t the point. This makes him responsible for her feelings. It requires him to make her feel loved, and conditions sex on her feelings. REsult? She has control in the relationship.
2. Touch her–without expecting it to go anywhere.
Most men do this too. But again: It puts her in the driver’s seat in the relationship. She controls sex, what sex there is, and when it happens.
3. DOn’t make her more exhausted than she already is.
Does anyone think men believe that women are NEVER exhausted? This makes men sound like insensitive brutes. Oh, and as if men are NEVER exhausted. No sirree, working and bearing 100% of the financial burdens is no problem, piece o’cake, sure is. No stress there. No problems there. We’re just ready and rarin’ to go when she says “vacuum the house, honey!” after a 70 hour workweek and a boss riding our asses. (Sarc off/)
Yeah. Hows about the ladies don’t make US more exhausted than WE already are?
4. FIgure out where the clitoris is — and what to do with it.
Wait a minute. I thought we lived in an era of sexual liberation. Women know their bodies. They have detailed Gray’s Anatomy diagrams in every Cosmo issue to show everyone EXACTLY where the clitoris is. Our society is so sex-drenched every single person over the age of 14 has seen detailed anatomical diagrams of the external female genitalia. So it is YOUR responsibility, wives, to tell your husbands how to stimulate you best. YOU tell HIM where YOUR clit is and YOU tell HIM what HE should do TO and FOR YOU. This is YOUR responsibility — not his.
5. Porn is evil. Live with it.
Using porn is a sin. It is NOT cheating. If you are withholding sex because he looked at porn, YOU are sinning. Wife, maybe you should ask yourseif WHY your husband felt the need to get off on porn. If your husband can’t get off except through porn and he’s looking at it, maybe he has decided you aren’t sexually avaialble to him. Maybe you need to look at YOUR role in why your husband is looking at porn.
6. Talk to her.
This is best shown in Gregoire’s explanation of this: “Women need to feel loved in order to make love.” Therefore, to Gregoire it is the husband’s responsibility to make her FEEL loved; and thus HER feelings are HIS responsibility. No. This is wrong. Her feelings are her responsibility; his feelings are his responsibility. And further – marital sex is not to be preconditioned on her feelings. If it is, then she is in control; and sex happens only if she feels like it. The husband is forced to dance, perform, jump through hoops, to get what is his due as the husband.
So T, you gettin’ all that?
@T
Yes. Would it ever by reasonable for a man to say, “Well because you didn’t wash the kitchen windows the right way, and starch my shirts just so, I’m not feeding you today, sorry.” ? Sex is a marital obligation just like providing for the family. If we are going to suppose that it is fair to put arbitrary restrictions on when intimacy can be engaged in, it’s entirely fair to form specific contractual obligations on home-making and when food can be distributed to the family based on performance.
I should start a blog called “White Glove Test” and describe exactly what conditions must be met in home-making in order for me to supply my significant other with shelter, food, and warmth. This seems like a possible humor theme…
7. See a doctor.
If he has low sex drive, perhaps it’s not physiological. COuld be, but are there other things going on? Wife, are you acting like a bitch? Are you being demanding and unloving and insensitive? Have you gained 100 pounds? Is he stressed out from working to care for you and your kids? It is his responsibility to love you, but it is not his responsibility to make you feel desired and fulfilled.
8. Sometimes she can’t make love. Let it go.
Believe me, wife, we understand this. We know sometimes you’re not up to it. We know sometimes you can’t. We are not insensitive, uncaring brutes. We just doubt that you’ve had a headache every night for two years.
9. Love her anyway.
We do. Tell you what, wife. We’ll love you anyway, even when you’ve gained weight, even when you’re PMSing and acting like a nutcase. OK? We’ll do that if you will respect us even when we don’t know what to do about something; even if we’ve lost our jobs, even if we get depressed; and even if we don’t make as much money as Biff Malibu down the street. If you’ll promise not to divorce us because you’re unhaaaaaaaappy, we’ll promise to love you anyway.
“FIgure out where the clitoris is — and what to do with it.”
Basically what she’s saying is that you men need to learn how to perform cunnilingus.
I actually kind of agree with this.
But — I think a lot more men would go downtown if women would too.
T:
JEremy is right.
If I am not entitled to sex from my wife; then my wife is not entitled to my investment (in the form of my money and labor) or my commitment (in the form of my marital fidelity).
If she is entitled to withhold sex on her whim and fancy, then I am entitled to withhold my money and financial support from her.
@ deti – so the wives of unemployed men or poor providers can withhold sex? I don’t think that sex and money is a good comparison.
“Wait a minute. I thought we lived in an era of sexual liberation. Women know their bodies. They have detailed Gray’s Anatomy diagrams in every Cosmo issue to show everyone EXACTLY where the clitoris is. Our society is so sex-drenched every single person over the age of 14 has seen detailed anatomical diagrams of the external female genitalia. So it is YOUR responsibility, wives, to tell your husbands how to stimulate you best. YOU tell HIM where YOUR clit is and YOU tell HIM what HE should do TO and FOR YOU. This is YOUR responsibility — not his.”
Having to do this causes vaginal dryness. Just FYI.
@deti
I don’t agree with the phrasing. If my woman won’t show me what makes her feel good, why spend the time? If she’s so uncomfortable with her own body that she can’t even tell me what she wants, why am I with her? This phrase “figure out what X is and how it functions” is fine if your business is reverse engineering and someone lets you take apart some mechanical part to figure it out. Somehow I doubt it’s legal to perform a full destructive failure analysis on the average wifes clit, and guessing at root cause for the intimacy failure is a waste of time without data.
She should KNOW how to use HER OWN BODY, and be able to tell you what to do. If she can’t do that, she’s not ready for marriage IMHO.
Believe it or not, most women don’t instinctively understand male parts, or how best to get their man off with their hands or mouth without causing chafing/pain. They have to be taught too. The difference here is that nearly every man knows how best to use his own parts and won’t be shy about telling the woman how best to do it.
@ Jeremy “These things are not unreasonable. The attitude that specific social/economic/physical/mental conditions must be met for a woman to meet her mans needs or the wife gets unhappy is a completely unreasonable attitude.”
But a wife whose husband doesn’t do most of those things actually isn’t going to be happy. Although I agree that she shouldn’t withhold sex no matter how she feels, a husband who doesn’t do some of those things is a turnoff.
empathologism – Just look what the bitches have gone and done
He was a Dog Going His Own Way after neverending rejections from stuck-up, entitled female dogs. Bitches be crazy.
He needs Doggie Game. http://nightskyradio.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/look_again_theres_something_about_these_pictures_640_04.jpg
T:
You’re being intentionally obtuse. Think about what the traditional requirements and duties of a husband and wife are; and think about what men and women most want when they come into a marriage.
What does a husband want when he gets married? Access to sex at reasonable intervals with a minimum of effort.
What does a wife want when she gets married? Security, safety and provisioning for herself and her children.
If he is unemployed through his own fault, or has never been a good provider, or he can’t hold down a job, or chooses not to hold down a job, then he is a bum who never should have gotten married in the first place; and she showed poor judgment in marrying the bum. A pox on both their houses, but especially on his.
If he loses his job NOT through his own fault or has to take a job with lesser pay and this requires her to return to work; then she is NOT entitled to withhold sex, even if their lives are more difficult or tenuous than before. Remember the whole “for better or for worse” part? This is the “for worse” part.
Let’s say the wife is paralyzed from the waist down in a car accident. She cannot have sex, but it is through no fault of her own. The husband is OBLIGATED to stay with her even if their sex life is less fulfilling than before. Again, this is the “for worse” part.
T, your arguments are trolling. Come on. If you really believe what you’re advocating, you don’t understand what marriage is all about.
@T
When you paint it as a picture of money vs intimacy, you’re simply reframing marital obligations as “good” and “bad” obligations. You’re playing on the notion that money is dirty, but sex is precious and re-framing it as if this is a whore/john relationship. This is not reality. The reality in a marriage is that two people have agreed to fill the needs of the other for life, which makes it a drastically different relationship.
Having to describe your body to a significant other in an intimate setting and how best to touch it causes physical problems? Go see a psychiatrist, you’ve got a disorder. I’m not joking.
Deti – You’re being intentionally obtuse
Seems to be common around these parts. Save your breath for someone who actually wants to listen.
Imagine the list that many women could make if they were really being honest. Forget the conditions for sex, they could write out a list of conditions that will keep them from divorcing, as deti suggests.
That a corresponding list would be a rare thing for most men to imagine as marital permanence conditions is already a testimony to why her adding these silly conditions to sex is unacceptable
@T
A woman who doesn’t clean the house perfectly might be annoying, but I’m not going to stop feeding her because she’s a little lazy. Why? because I have an obligation to provide for her and the kids. On the other side, I’ll listen to what a wife tells me she wants out of me and I’ll do what’s reasonable, but simply withholding an obligation on whims is not acceptable behavior.
I’m fairly sure there are more women unreasonably withholding sex from husbands…than husbands not pulling their weight being protectors, providers, and keeping commitments.
If I ever get married and my wife tries that stunt…the next paycheck I get goes all to me.
Fuck, why do you keep debating with this delusional fuck wit?
I am so happy I am no longer married. Never again.
And notice everytime a woman uses withholding sex it’s due to just giving birth or medical reasons. Do they think that men don’t get pushing a watermelon through a small hole is going to cause some pain for quite a while?
Ladies…we get not having sex for medical reasons. I mean as much as my spirit would want to have sex if a lady is willing…if my flesh is bruised to intolerable pain it isn’t happening.
He was a Dog Going His Own Way after neverending rejections from stuck-up, entitled female dogs. Bitches be crazy.
“Put the bone back in, the dogs been hit by a car…”
actual lyric, Terry Jacks, B side-Seasons in the Sun
@FH
http://xkcd.com/386/
Women will never see anything they do as wrong, nothing. You cannot reason with them, debate with them or discuss what matters to you with them. They do not care! It’s the reason why men can die in our millions and women joke about it, they only care in as much as it affects them back home. They do not care about you. At all, only your utility matters to them. Once that’s gone, so are you.
Her obligations do not matter, remember Hilary Cliton, she gave the complete answer to a woman’s thought process, she answered every single last question you will ever ask women in the history of time and all time to come. The answer they will give is the same and it’s meant with the same flippant attitude with which Hilary gave it.
What does it matter?!
They do not care.
Sorry, “Put the bone in”…not back in
http://learning2share.blogspot.com/2008/05/terry-jacks-put-bone-in-1974.html
(some here like scholarly references)
[D: Glad to see you are finally catching up on the classics.]
@Deti: Good stuff. Very good stuff. Especially that porn is a sin but it is not cheating — i.e., it is not grounds for divorce (unless perhaps it is ongoing and unrepentant despite church intervention). And that there’s no reason the wife can’t communicate what works for her and her clitoris. (My ex was so phobic about sex that she had never masturbated, had no clue what worked for her, and refused — on conscience grounds — to experiment with herself even if it was with my consent, in my presence, and at the recommendation of a Christian counselor and/or Christian sex manual. As far as she was concerned, masturbation was masturbation, and masturbation was of the devil. Oh, and she thought my enthusiasm for cunnilingus was further proof of my depravity. I hate that she got remarried, but I’m thinking of starting a pool on when the new hubby figures out what he’s gotten himself into.)
Gregoire doesn’t realize (I’ll charitably presume) that she’s giving a lot of wives easy excuses for sinning against their husbands. That should be illustrated by putting the shoe on the other foot and applying her reasoning to the things everyone agrees a husband is obligated to do regardless of his feelings at the time, but somehow the analogy doesn’t penetrate. Does anyone know whether she has ever addressed the shoe-on-the-other-foot analogy, or has she just ignored it?
@FH
Fortunately for the future of civilized society, not all women are like Hillary Cliton. Some of them actually like men and don’t consider them disposable.
Better still, some of them actually like masculinity as a complement to themselves.
Jeremy, where are they and what are you smoking? I need some.
[D: Glad to see you are finally catching up on the classics.]
I invested, like, 2 mins 45 sec on that in 1974. My commitment shall not be doubted.
@T
If you are going to argue with me, you are going to have to argue with Sheila. The first post I linked to is advice to men about how to supplicate to their wives to get into their pants. Do the housework, tell her she is pretty, don’t expect anything, etc. Do all of this and you might get lucky! The second post I linked to is her getting angry that her husband was supplicating to her in an attempt to get into her pants:
But then she realizes that he wasn’t really supplicating to her, he just felt loving since for one night she rolled back a bit of the barbed wire. This of course got her thinking, why all of the miscommunication? It turns out that men are being taught to supplicate to their wives for sex, and this is all wrong! Of course, as Sheila explains, only a man would suggest this:
So who are you arguing with? Me, or Sheila, or Sheila?
David J:
Yes, you’ve got it. Gregoire and other Christian ministers giving wives sex advice get it all wrong, for this very reason. Men: you need to make her feel loved. You need to take the responsibilities off her shoulders. You need to do the housework and make her feel pretty. You men need to figure out how to pleasure her. You men need to do this, that and the other thing. And even if it doesn’t work, you have to love her anyway.
The problem with all this is it makes the man responsible not only for HIS feelings, but also for his wife’s feelings. Thus, he is led to believe he can control her reactions and responses if he does certain things. The truth is that he cannot control her responses; and he is not responsible for her feelings.
It also puts the wife in firm control of the couple’s sex life. When she wants to have sex, he must hop to it. But if he wants sex, he has to jump through hoops and give good Choreplay. And she is the sole judge and arbiter of whether his efforts measure up. He doesn’t get sex because he is her husband; he gets sex as a doggie treat, a reward for his performance. “Good boy!” It also reinforces the false notion that her sexual desires are always good, noble and pure; while HIS sexual desires are always bad, dirty and base.
Wow, of course, women are such natural thinkers and men are merely morons who somehow, through the light of God, see things logically and therefore try to find solutions that work instead of making up shit as we go along.
What Sheila really means when she says all that bunk is that it doesn’t matter what her husband does at all, ever. If she wants sex, she will get it. If she doesn’t, there’s not a damn thing in the world he can do. Of course she’s had one too many partners, doesn’t feel much attraction for current hubby and feels like sex is a chore.
To Sheila’s husband, sorry chap, that’s just the truth of the matter.
@jeremy – “Having to describe your body to a significant other in an intimate setting and how best to touch it causes physical problems? Go see a psychiatrist, you’ve got a disorder. I’m not joking.”
Now who is being obtuse. Having to explain what you want to someone who is sexually incompetent (and a man who can’t find a clit and doesn’t know what it is for is incompetent ) is not sexy.
It also reinforces the false notion that her sexual desires are always good, noble and pure; while HIS sexual desires are always bad, dirty and base.
here is the churchian derivation of this, for those who REALLY want to control the husbands beasty desires:
From 1Thes 4:3-8, it seems there exist choices in how one possesses “his vessel”.
Does he do so in “sanctification and honour”?
Or does he do so “in the lust of concupiscence”/”passion of lust”?
Engaging in the “passion of lust” is to “go beyond and defraud his brother”.
His transgression/ his lusting transgresses boundaries and DEFRAUDS HER.
1Thes 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; 5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: 6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter:
1Thes 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from unchastity;
4 that each one of you know how to take a wife for himself in holiness and honor,
5 not in the passion of lust like heathen who do not know God;
6 that no man transgress, and wrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we solemnly forewarned you.
7 For God has not called us for uncleanness, but in holiness.
8 Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you.
There you have it…..do not have sex based on physical desire
NEXT
@ dalrock – Shelia contradicts herself all the time. I’ve noticed that reading along and you’ve done a great job pointing out where I’ve missed it. However I do think that a husband who doesn’t do the stuff that she listed is likely to actually turn his wife off. Doing those things won’t guarantee that she is turned on and wants sex, because those things aren’t necessarily turn ons, but their absence will be problematic.
Well, T obviously feels that men should Just get it, and that if a woman has to explain anything about her body and its differences, then the man is failing to “get it”. Nevermind the fact that part of the joy of the marital bed SHOULD be exploration and learning what works for each other, and that feedback and a bit of guidance can be a lot of fun for everyone involved. (And women are generally not as, uh, “easy” to figure out as men are, in terms of what works, sexually)
And oh, by the way, if your man knows his way around the female body enough to give you rapturous orgasms from the get go with no guidance at all… Well, have you considered what that implies? I know male sexual experience doesn’t have the weight that female sexual experience does, but I get the impression T still CONSIDERS HERSELF to be Christian, and so I assume she still holds chastity as a value.
@T: You’re missing the point. The question isn’t whether Sheila’s suggestions are or are not pragmatically conducive to sex. The question is whether they are valid (biblically, morally, or contractually) prerequisites to ungrudging sex.
So if a man doesn’t do those things it will turn her off…if he does those things it probably won’t turn her on because they aren’t turn ons.
So tell me what’s the incentive?
T:
I confess I am really having trouble understanding your argument that telling a husband what you want in bed is a turnoff. I went back to your original response to me.
I said: “So it is YOUR responsibility, wives, to tell your husbands how to stimulate you best. YOU tell HIM where YOUR clit is and YOU tell HIM what HE should do TO and FOR YOU. This is YOUR responsibility — not his.”
T replied: “Having to do this causes vaginal dryness. Just FYI.”
You then fleshed it out with: “Now who is being obtuse. Having to explain what you want to someone who is sexually incompetent (and a man who can’t find a clit and doesn’t know what it is for is incompetent ) is not sexy.”
Anyone who has been through high school sex ed knows where the clitoris is and what it’s for. The issue isn’t so much finding the clitoris as it is how to stimulate her clitoris. Every woman is different. In today’s day and age with men and women having multiple partners, most women have to tell their men how to stimulate them. Men do not know automatically how to perform oral or manual stimulation. They have to learn how; and there are no manuals on how to do this. (Sam Kinison (RIP) had a funny comedy routine on this.) Women have to tell their men what they want.
@ taterearl – “So if a man doesn’t do those things it will turn her off…if he does those things it probably won’t turn her on because they aren’t turn ons.
So tell me what’s the incentive?”
Not turning her off and being a good husband? Let me try and find an example that will work for you. I try not to nag. My lack of nagging isn’t a turn on to my husband but if I did nag it would be a turn off. Some of the stuff on Shelia’s list is like that.
@Empath: doesn’t that reference his vessel as being his own body? Not referencing hers?
Saying, basically, that men should be in control of themselves, not burning with lust to the point that they make poor decisions.
There is no way the bible says “defrauds his brother” but actually means his wife. How do they make that leap?
@ David J. – “@T: You’re missing the point. The question isn’t whether Sheila’s suggestions are or are not pragmatically conducive to sex. The question is whether they are valid (biblically, morally, or contractually) prerequisites to ungrudging sex.”
I think that whether they are valid prerequisites to ungrudging sex is irrelevant for practical purposes. Most women won’t be able to have enthusiastic sex with a husband who is lacking in many of these areas. You can tell her that her prerequisites are invalid and she will tell you that you’ve turned her off. She may grab some lube and fake it for you if she believes that she owes that to you, but it isn’t going to get you a mutually satisfying sex life.
T:
If a woman cannot have enthusiastic sex with her husband unless a litany of prerequisites (such as she FEEEEEELS sufficiently loved, he has done a set number of chores or amount of housework; and he tells her how pretty she is) have been met, then she is not in love with her husband or is not attracted to him. She certainly does not respect him.
This is why Dalrock continually hammers on the point that a woman ought not marry unless she has found a man she can be head over heels in love with, whom she can respect, and whom she will willingly follow.
Sorry for Hijacking the thread
A timely video by Barbarosssaaa:
The Karamazov Idea
Women’s view of being “right” is based on feelings while men’s are based on something more concrete (principle).
I personally would rather be right, and joyful and the possibility of not being happy, than to be wrong and “happy”
Hm, sexual experience comes with time. T sounds like she wants a porn star for no man on this Earth is going to be able to make a woman orgasm without either the woman teaching him over time to give her better sexual stimulation or by spending time outside of marriage perfecting his skills. So… which is it T?
@ deti – “If a woman cannot have enthusiastic sex with her husband unless a litany of prerequisites (such as she FEEEEEELS sufficiently loved, he has done a set number of chores or amount of housework; and he tells her how pretty she is) have been met, then she is not in love with her husband or is not attracted to him. She certainly does not respect him.
This is why Dalrock continually hammers on the point that a woman ought not marry unless she has found a man she can be head over heels in love with, whom she can respect, and whom she will willingly follow.”
Sex is not just physical for some women, it’s emotional as well. Before I developed some emotional control if my feelings were hurt, or I wasn’t feeling loved at the moment I didn’t want sex and couldn’t enjoy it if I had it anyway. I am head over heels with my husband most of the time, and certainly find him very attractive.
“T” is for “Troll”. Why do you let her hijack these threads?
She just wants to own it all, and take your soul apart
“Honey did you paint the door?”, a kiss is not enough
She’d put you on a railroad, she’d dearly make you pay
For saying it to her face, that you just want some play
Love her way, it’s a new day
You may as well wish that you were gay
I was reading Deti’s comments and Psychedelic Furs came on the radio…
@Twenty
The problem isn’t that she is being responded to, but that too often her attempts at reframing are being taken as legitimate attempts at logical debate. If T delivers a slow pitch and you want to effortlessly knock one out of the park, feel free. If she were to engage in actual logical discussion and you want to participate, that is good too. But if you look closely nearly all of her comments are simple re-frames thinly disguised as logical arguments. If you take these seriously you fall for her trap. In one sense this is to be expected because the OP is fundamentally a reframe of Sheila’s absurdity. Women like T can’t stand the reframe so they come swarming out like ants stinging and biting and furiously trying to rebuild the mound.
“Sex is not just physical for some women, it’s emotional as well.”
Fascinating…I never put together that women base things off emotion.
Did women ever consider that sex is emotional for men as well? What emotion would you feel if you were rejected?
Why do you cooperate by feeding this T(roll)?
I will tell you the truth, point blank: American women are frigid whores, period: they demand all kinds of payment for sex. They have been taught since the age of 12 that they can extract favors from men by using sex as a carrot. And American men enable them by accepting any humiliation only to have a bit of sex.
If you know other cultures (as I do), you will see that women enjoy sex and want to do it with their husbands every time they can. Don’t marry American women and you won’t have to be in the humiliating position of supplicating and jumping through 50 hoops only to have sex with your own wife.
@T
—> It’s too bad that you find describing your body and what you want from a partner as not-sexy, as that’s exactly the process that needs to happen to build intimacy with a partner over time. With that attitude, you are frankly doomed to a life of inadequate intimacy.
—> You’re going to describe a virgin man who doesn’t understand how a female body works as incompetent? Really? So abject and natural ignorance of that which you do not have and have never seen is now how incompetence is defined? You’re either using english as a second language, or you’re a base troll.
@T: “I think that whether they are valid prerequisites to ungrudging sex is irrelevant for practical purposes.”
You cavalierly accept Christian wives’ hard hearts. One of the most significant reasons for the (blatantly sinful) state of affairs you’ve identified is that churches, Christian counselors, Christian marriage authors, and Christian women in general propagate the counterproductive drivel of which Sheila’s output is merely one example. Christian wives such as you don’t stand up against the opinion-shapers but instead revel in the erroneous grant of permission to deny or withhold sex for unbiblical reasons. If you care about right and wrong, then quit being an apologist for the drivel and start speaking the biblical truth to yourself and the wives you know.
Dalrock- “furiously trying to rebuild the mound.”
comedy.
@ taterearl – “Fascinating…I never put together that women base things off emotion.
Did women ever consider that sex is emotional for men as well? What emotion would you feel if you were rejected?”
I see you point. I also suspect that if you hurt a man’s feelings or bruised his ego enough he might not want to have sex with you. I am not saying that this behavior is allowed in the Bible, but it is what it is.
Thinking like that exhibited by T is typical of feminism, and is exactly what drives quality men away from women like her. She’s probably single, considering that she can’t attract quality men because she expects them to “just get it”, and her standards are clearly too high for her to be interested at all in men closer to her SMV. It’s a sad place to be, T. A lonely and sad place, T. Don’t be that girl.
But seriously, women should not be like jobs. I know that in the job marketplace right now, you practically HAVE to HAVE experience just to get employed… even at entry level jobs. In other words, this is the job equivalent of what T seems to be expecting from men. She wants a porn star for a hubby.
Or worse yet, a virgin who has studied porn for too long. That might be up T’s alley, given the reasoning exhibited by her.
But does that line up with her sense of Christian purity? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Sex has been uplifted to religion status thanks to the assortment of media, woman magazines, and movies. Therefore since women read it, see it, and probably experienced it before…you as a man should just know it from the beginning. Regardless if you are a virgin or not.
And guess what, before the sexual revolution people learned how to have good sex by old fashioned marriage and practice. Other than a few rare cases is anybody a natural at anything the first time they do it?
@ David J – “You cavalierly accept Christian wives’ hard hearts. One of the most significant reasons for the (blatantly sinful) state of affairs you’ve identified is that churches, Christian counselors, Christian marriage authors, and Christian women in general propagate the counterproductive drivel of which Sheila’s output is merely one example. Christian wives such as you don’t stand up against the opinion-shapers but instead revel in the erroneous grant of permission to deny or withhold sex for unbiblical reasons. If you care about right and wrong, then quit being an apologist for the drivel and start speaking the biblical truth to yourself and the wives you know.”
I have told friends that there is no reason to deny sex and that their marriages will probably improve if they are sexually generous with their husbands. That doesn’t change the fact that sex can be difficult for women to enjoy when they aren’t feeling good about their relationship. I don’t consider a woman’s emotional needs to be “drivel”. They shouldn’t be the center of the marriage or controlling the sex life or husband, but many women are not able to enjoy sex when they go unmet. I don’t think that’s hardheartedness either. It is just how many women are made.
T wrote:
This gets said a lot by women, but I’m not sure this is generally true. You only ever hear married women say this, not single women.
Here’s what you never hear Suzie Singleton say: “Ohmygod, Jen, I met this guy named Mentu at the bar, but I just wasn’t feeling like he loved me sufficiently, so I just couldn’t get into it, know what I mean?”
No, it’s Michelle Marriedlady who says things like this to their marriage therapist, “Well, Bob really hurts my feeling by not helping with the dishes. I just can’t have sex with someone who doesn’t have enough love and respect for me to help around the house. I can’t have sex with someone who hurts me like that.”
I think it’s manipulative poo, frankly. It’s physical enough when she wants it to be.
Mrs. Gregoire wrote:
LOL, I love how Mrs. Gregoire makes sex sound like such a horrid chore for men. What man wants more work and responsibility to deal with? Who wants to hear, “Get down in that trench and get to work!” and then an endless litany of complaints, “No, not there. No, not there either! No, you’re not doing it right! Ugh.”?
If that’s what it’s like for those poor guys, no wonder somebody invented internet porn.
@ SSM -“I think it’s manipulative poo, frankly. It’s physical enough when she wants it to be.”
All women aren’t picking up men in bars and having sex with them. I have only had sex with my husband and I can be very emotional about things. I suspect however that there are no negative feelings about the man that “Suzie Singleton” is picking up. He hasn’t hurt her feelings and he isn’t close enough to her to do so. The only thing there is lust, and if lust enough for sex then she goes with that.
SSM – If that’s what it’s like for those poor guys, no wonder somebody invented internet porn
I’m pretty sure it’s not a coincidence that the internet, online gaming, streaming video, and high definition TV all kicked into high gear on all thrusters just as feminism (complete with feminist-y “co-presidency”) peaked.
Solomon, yea, I’m just pastin em as I find em
T, if you has sex with another man, and don’t think it cannot happen, the tending of the flame would be hey I’ve got a few minutes meet me at the parl
If you’ve only ever had sex with your husband I salute you for being righteous towards him and God. However, even if one is not a virgin, withholding sex is not just a sin against your spouse but can and will lead to serious damage in your marriage. Sex, children and family are the glue that keep you together. And yes, sex is included with those two, strange as it may seem, because without sex, the other two do not come about at all, ever.
A serious question to women. Do you love your husband or don’t you? Do you want him to do well at what you need him to do well at? Is marriage some kind of joke to you, some play that we can stop when we get bored? No?! Then quit being so negative and love your husband and love your marriage. And last but certainly not least, love God with all your being and do what he says, for he is wise beyond reproach and his greatness will lead to your understanding… eventually. The journey we all have to travel.
I will accept that some times spouses can be unhealthy and not fit for sex. I understand that this is unattractive and not great for sexual intimacy. However, that is the exact time to be a good spouse. Don’t withhold sex as a punishment as that will not help heal your spouse. In that case withholding sex might be for health reasons only until the spouse is once again fit and healthy, not for punishment though. So… in the meantime, help your spouse by going to gym with them. Help them by lending both physical guidance and spiritual guidance, don’t be a dickhead about it.
And T, don’t be a troll. How do you expect men to please any women without experience? Even men who have had experience with tons of women cannot know the intimate emotional needs of any one women. This takes time and effort, always has and always will. The first time might not be gigantic fireworks buzzing off but it’s still special since it is the beginning of something wonderful. Your married life together. You have the rest of your lives to explore each other and try your best to fulfill each other. Praise God your father for giving you that opportunity.
@Mr. T
“Now who is being obtuse. Having to explain what you want to someone who is sexually incompetent (and a man who can’t find a clit and doesn’t know what it is for is incompetent ) is not sexy.”
Now who is being obtuse. Having to explain what you want to someone who is sexually incompetent ( and a woman who can’t give a blowjob and just lays there is not sexy.
@Mr. T
“He hasn’t hurt her feelings and he isn’t close enough to her to do so. The only thing there is lust, and if lust enough for sex then she goes with that.”
You really need to go find a psychology book and pay extra special attention to the whole sex chapter. You’re way behind the rest of the class.
T is not a worthy woman I bet she isn’t even married. After reading the entire comment section you have completely derailed the conversation and made it about you. You are a crap wife and are proud of it.
Back to the original article. If any man could frivorce his wife the same way any woman can today that woman would be be in a constant state of sexual arousel, just the way it is.
SSM
No, it’s Michelle Marriedlady who says things like this to their marriage therapist, “Well, Bob really hurts my feeling by not helping with the dishes. I just can’t have sex with someone who doesn’t have enough love and respect for me to help around the house. I can’t have sex with someone who hurts me like that.”
Plus, if Michelle Marriedlady decides to have an affair, she won’t be fussy or picky about details when it’s time for a tryst. She won’t be cranky about the faded curtains and lumpy bed at the NoTellMoTel, nor will she complain that the back of his van isn’t as warm as she might like it, or that the guest bedroom in her bestest-friends house has a vaguely musty smell, etc. No, if Michelle decides she’s DTF with Hank Harleyrider or Sam Salesman or Mark Music-mission-marvel, she won’t make any of the demands on them she’d make on Bob.
There is a phrase that is way overused, but in this case, it applies: “It’s all in your head, woman”.
The brain is a critical organ in sexual behavior. Used the right way, trivialities melt away. Used the wrong way, every speck of dust, every little dot on the window, is sufficient reason to do something – anything – other than The Act with The Mister.
I’m not referring to women (or men) with genuine medical issues, with genuine abuse or other bad things in the past, or other ghosts in their head. I’m referring to the majority.
It’s in your head. Get over it. The message Sheila is sending to her husband is simple:
I Do Not Love You Any More, Please Go Away.
That may well not be the message she intends to send. But that’s the message a lot of men would receive from her actions, regardless of what her various mewling words claim. If she keeps that up long enough, he may indeed put her on the clock. Or he may decide that he has to be married to her, but he sure as heck doesn’t have to sleep in the same bed – or the same house – with her. Women do not realize how difficult it is for a man to sleep next to the woman who is working on becoming his ex wife, and how much better he can sleep when she’s not there. He doesn’t feel the frustration and anger building up, comparing what used to be with what now is.
Gregoire is trolling for a separation, or worse. Tick tock, indeed.
Lol Greyghost, you’re probably right, they would be tingling so much so they wouldn’t have to troll websites to get their thrills…
@ Feminist Hater – “Do you love your husband or don’t you? Do you want him to do well at what you need him to do well at? Is marriage some kind of joke to you, some play that we can stop when we get bored? No?! Then quit being so negative and love your husband and love your marriage.”
I really think that some women are just so emotional about their relationships with their husbands that it can be hard to see clearly. Withheld sex can be more about sadness and hurt feelings than punishing the husband. As I’ve grown up I’ve come to realize that I can put those feelings aside with effort and determination but when I was first married my emotions pulled me every which way. I wish that spouses could switch places for a few minutes and see what things feel like from the other person’s perspective. I would’ve known that my husband hadn’t stopped loving me because we’d fought or he’d been distant, and he would have known that I was an emotional wreck over it and wasn’t avoiding sex because I wanted to punish him.
I know that some women do use sex as punishment and manipulation, but I think that those women are rarer than those who are emotional about things and either don’t realize how much more peaceful and happy they will be if they reign in their emotions and have sex anyway, or can’t reign in their emotions. I realize that withholding is a serious, destructive problem in marriage, so I don’t want anyone to think that my comments are excusing it.
Mr. T
Joseph pities the fool.
@ Joseph – “You really need to go find a psychology book and pay extra special attention to the whole sex chapter. You’re way behind the rest of the class.”
Ok. I’m certainly not the sex expert. I don’t know for sure the mindset of a woman going to have sex with some dude she met in a bar. However it seems that since there is no history and no relationship between them then the only feelings there would be the ones generated during their brief presex encounter. Meanwhile with your spouse there are a lot of deep emotions there, both positive and negative that, if you are the emotional sort can effect your thinking and feelings about sex with that person.
@Mr. T
“However it seems that since there is no history and no relationship between them then the only feelings there would be the ones generated during their brief presex encounter.”
Just go and read Married Man Sex Life. Look at Athol’s post on the different relationship hormones and discover just how wrong you are. A special type of bond is created between two people when they have sex. A woman who has sex with random people off the street has deeply damaged her ability to pair bond.
It’s damaging to both men and women, but creates an almost insurmountable obstacle for a husband trying to pair bond with a wife who has a high number of partners. This is part of why sluts and whores are shamed so badly. They aren’t capable of having a marriage that any man in his right mind would care to endure.
“I wish that spouses could switch places for a few minutes and see what things feel like from the other person’s perspective. I would’ve known that my husband hadn’t stopped loving me because we’d fought or he’d been distant, and he would have known that I was an emotional wreck over it and wasn’t avoiding sex because I wanted to punish him.”
I wish women could experience marriage as a man. You are EXPECTED to do virtually everything. Pay the bills. Mow the law. Be sensitive. Read her mind. Know how to please her in bed without asking. Do dishes. Man up. Listen to our nonsense for a change. Have all the responsibility and no authority. Be told we are better than you and that you suck because you stopped trying after we told you that. Experience Father’s day in a modern church and be told how incompetent you are. Live in a world that is a poisonous fume. Be raised by mothers who give the suckiest advice about women known to mankind. Be divorced because we were unhaaaaappy, loose half your stuff, loose your kids, and have your living conditions diminished while having to attend therapy for anger management after we told the lawyer that you were abusive. Have people laugh on television when someone makes a joke about cutting off your sex organs and throwing them in the trash disposal. Have a woman be completely ungrateful for all the sacrifices you make for her and just EXPECTS it of you because your supposed to all while she makes sex like storming a beach.
But, we don’t always get what we wish for.
Oh, I forgot to add that I get to put crap on your side of the bed to “train” you that I’m not your maid.
“American women are frigid whores”
Only to 80% of men.
“I wish that spouses could switch places for a few minutes and see what things feel like from the other person’s perspective.”
Projection. Women don’t do empathy.
A special type of bond is created between two people when they have sex. A woman who has sex with random people off the street has deeply damaged her ability to pair bond.
I know this! I was talking about the reasons that SSM’s “Suzy Singleton” might have less reservations about sex with a stranger than “Michelle Married Lady,” has with her spouse.
I wish women could experience marriage as a man. You are EXPECTED to do virtually everything.
I am beginning to realize that my husband is under a lot more pressure than I give him credit for.
Oh, I forgot to add that I get to put crap on your side of the bed to “train” you that I’m not your maid.
You just had to go there.
Absolutely right an observer women don’t do empathy. Rather than tal\k about how women are sinning and hurting themselves or the effects of womens behavior on others and society in general the discussion needs to be on how to severely punish women and bring on as much ironic or good old fashion cruel pain to the lives of women. Women don’t give a damn about anybody but themselves.And they have the vote and the law. The feral behavior is natural and normal and selfish. The converstion needs to be how does some wicked selfish person behave virtuously? When it is in there own selfish interest. That is where the comment of men having the power of the frivorce with the same out come women have today will make for a sexually aroused woman indeed with very good cooking skills I might add. Not Dalrocks style but he is getting there.
I like it when my wife welcomes me with a kiss and a ‘lei’.
https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/a-tale-of-two-beaches/#comment-71305
This. ‘Nuff said.
https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/a-tale-of-two-beaches/#comment-71323
Joseph,
Amen brother. Men are indeed expected in most marriages to share in everything; I suspect that most do given the fact that they bargained for this in marriage. Only it never gets him anywhere – the more he does, the more she expects. The man does all the “man stuff” and is expected to do half the “woman stuff” regardless of the how that works out relative to one another or relative to work outside the home. In many marriages, even where both work, the man often is working a dirtier, more dangerous or stressful job than his wife to provide for the household and protect her from having to do so. What he typically gets in return is resentment and hostility.
All of the husbands I know would literally run into a burning building wearing a gasoline suit to spend a little quality time with their wives. I do not know and do not attempt to find out about the intimacy of their marriages, but I suspect that they, like many men, supplicate like most married men to get it a couple of times a month.
Most women are too caught up in the lies they’ve been told about men and in the false righteousness of their own existence to realize that they are quite literally, killing the golden goose.
O man… all you have to do is read Sheilia’s comment threads to realize how clueless and selfish a lot of these supposed Christian women are. I just spent an hour over there and I don’t think I ever stopped grimacing.
Yep. Just checked. I am still grimacing. LH&V has given me permanent facial disfiguration.
“I wish women could experience marriage as a man. You are LEGALLY BOUND to be accountable for all personal failings of both male and female, both during and after the marriage is terminated for no fault at the woman’s request, with obligations enforceable by threat of arrest and jail time.”
Quote amended and amplified as required.
Lyrics from the 80’s come to mind..
Oh baby, love me right
Let me love you till I get it right
Can’t you let the others be
‘Cause with you is where I got to be, yeah
Oh sugar, where you been?
Hangin’ out with your male friends
Listen, somebody’s going to hurt you
The way you love to keep hurting me
We say
Oh oh, Sheila
Let me love you till the morning comes
Oh oh, Sheila
You know I want to be the only one
Oh baby, understand
That I want to be the only man
But it seems you’re screaming too hard
Now think yourself to have an own friend
Oh baby, it’s plain to see
That you’re qualified to fill your needs
I think you threw an oath on me
Honey, baby, just you wait and see
@Mr. T
“You just had to go there.”
YOUR training has begun. 🙂
Field Marshall Gregoire is a tree stump-stupid, hyena-faced howling hideous huffbucket that could scare the stink off a pile of camel shit.
Uncool. First, except for the short hair, Sheila is actually rather cute. Keeps her body in shape, too.
Secondly, even if she were ugly, that’s an unfair, ad hominem attack. Attack the views not the looks. A person’s looks, they might not be able to do much about.
with modern make-up they can’t do anything about their looks? Oh, really?
with modern make-up they can’t do anything about their looks? Oh, really?
Only touchups. Fundamental bone-structure-deep unattractiveness, cannot be helped.
Meanwhile with your spouse there are a lot of deep emotions there, both positive and negative that, if you are the emotional sort can effect your thinking and feelings about sex with that person.”
A bit of champagne and cocaine and she’s good to go again,just a matter of upping the ante,aye?
Or perhaps a trip to the Caribbean of Hawaii and staying in the 5 star hotel,all the things HarlyMcRider
doesn’t have to do
because she hasn’t made that ‘love’ *conditional.*
(on his end.)
Ssm said it well,
“manipulative poo.”
POOPY!
Census Bureau DataMapping tool from census.gov
Dalrock, I don’t know if you have ever seen this tool. I stumbled across it while looking at a geography site. It is a tool from the Census Bureau and it maps census data to the county level. I think it is Adobe Flash Player Tool. Also it allows you to save tabular data and gives a link to a free Microsoft Excel Viewer download.
http://www.census.gov/geo/maps-data/maps/datamapper.html
[D: Thanks! I’ll check it out.]
@ anonymous:
When people are ugly on the inside, that often manifests itself with regards to how others see their actual physical appearance.
Having said that, the fact you think she’s “rather cute” says a lot.
The point being: these excuses are an attempt to project the wife’s failings upon the husbands,with an easy out,as he could never quite meet the criteria for success.
“Another quaalude
and she’s gonna love me again.”
Tony Montana
*desire for perpetually increased SELF gratification projected upon the spouse as an external obligation,when in fact it’s an excuse to pull the hypergamy trigger and find that special satisfaction that can only come from a new lover.*
GUILT TRIP on the innocent party!
Yeah,I’m on to you.
Way too much thinking/analyzing going on at the Gregargoyle household.
If women experienced marriage like men…nobody would ever get married. Men are finally waking up to the con game presented to them.
I still say if the woman has an unreasonable request to withhold sex (fake headaches, lacking emotion, fatigue)…then the man can make unreasonable requests to withhold his paycheck, his housing, whatever assets he has that she uses.
I mean I go to work when I don’t feel like it some days even though I love my job…bad weather, tired, thinking of better things to do…but I go because I have a nasty habit of wanting to eat.
One of the problems as I see things is, women rarely feel loved regardless of what a man does for her. Way to many women think whatever a man does is only achieving the bare minimum. Open door for her; no points given because that’s what you should do. Bust your ass and make big money for the family; providing is what you are supposed to do. Plan a romantic date night; it’s what men are supposed to do. Take a bullet for her; no big deal that’s what men are supposed to do
Whatever is done for her or the family no matter the cost to the man/ husband is way to often brushed off as no big deal, achieving the minimum etc which is why choreplay does not lead to more sex
One thing nobody mentioned here is the funny way Field Marshal understands “fair” and “right”: namely, “fair” and “right” is when things go the way she likes them to go. Men used to understand this quirk of inborn female ethics (it’s not 100% fatal, might be corrected with a proper upbringing) back in the fifties and sixties
Women also seem to have a careless disregard for men’s emotions. The determining factor always has to be based off her feelings. Guess what…while men may not show it as much but our emotions are deeper than yours. We just have a greater controlling mechanism.
You don’t think we feel tired, angry, stressed, unloved, or the other myriad of things that makes sex seem terrible to women? We do…probably 10X worse than you ever will. Thing is society doesn’t care.
So which approach results in “The Longest Day”?
Holy reframes, Batman!
It goes back to something we’ve long said in the ‘sphere — watch what women do, rather than listen to what they say. What they say is going to be often jumbled, confused, contradictory and nonsensical to your rational side because often it is driven by emotion primarily if not exclusively. It’s not that women do this intentionally — it’s how they are, it’s how they experience the world, everything is tempered through emotion and refracted through it. This is even more the case when it comes to any issue pertaining to men, their relationships with men, their husbands/BFs, etc., as these are already core emotional areas. So you’re going to get a bunch of reframes, ad-hoc, post-hoc type stuff going on that is often contradictory and may really just be a rationalization of what she is feeling at the moment. It isn’t very telling, as a result, of anything other than her emotional state and what she is feeling when she says it (and in that respect it can be very telling if you are skilled enough to listen to what she says as an emotional tape and reflection, rather than trying to understand it in terms of making rational substance out of it).
But … watch closely what they do. Now, what they do also is primarily rooted in emotion, too, that’s clear, but actions aren’t obfuscating in and of themselves, and they are concrete, whereas words are not. So watch what they do, and read what they say primarily as an emotional tape especially if it regards anything concerning men, relationships, sex and so on — all core emotional areas for most women.
(Note I am not saying that a female physics PhD can’t discuss physics in a rational and detached way. I’m saying that the same PhD can’t discuss things pertaining to her relationships with men in that way, generally, regardless of how rational she is generally, and you shouldn’t expect her to do so. Read those conversations for their emotional tape more than rational communication of substance and you”ll be better off).
T,
“I wish that spouses could switch places for a few minutes and see what things feel like from the other person’s perspective.”
I am enthralled by this comment of yours!
I think it is indeed a very good policy to try and see things from the other party’s point of view.
Having said that, it is of course difficult to completely put oneself in the other person’s shoes, as, for one, both parties do not share the same biology and therefore thought processes…
And now I have a question for the men:
Is there never a ‘saturation point’ where …um…marital relations are concerned? Whilst I totally ‘get’ that a man has earned the ‘right’ to ‘easy’ access to his own wife, is there such a thing as ‘too easy’?
Perhaps this question is evidence of my own ‘projection’. But I wonder if there is some truth to my theory??
(I guess my question would be already answered if ‘Mrs. Yes’ had already posted her husband’s reaction to her year-long ‘trial’. But as yet, she hasn’t, and I am curious as to the effect on a man if his wife never said no. Even if this were a realistic scenario (that she never says no), my question is, does this bring with it a whole new level of problems, i.e. a certain lack of respect for wife?)
Explanation in detail most welcome!
Apparently Mr. Gregoire suffers from Male Privilege:
“Is there never a ‘saturation point’ where …um…marital relations are concerned? ”
Is there never a saturation point where earning money is concerned?
“American women are frigid whores”
Only to 80% of men.
Right. I thought of that yesterday but I was in a hurry and I couldn’t write another message. Of course, we are talking about the average woman, YMMV.
I think it takes two centuries of American puritanism to make women so manipulative about sex. In the country I live, it’s me who says: “Today I’m tired honey” or “Let’s go to the movies, instead”.
Sane women LOVE sex with their partners and can’t get enough of it. American women have been become insane by the poisonous American culture.
Spacetraveller
No
Spacetraveller, let me pose a counter question:
Is there ever a saturation point for attention paid to a woman? That is, can she ever get “too much” listening to her talk, “too much” affection, “too much” hand holding, “too much” flower-giving, etc.?
“Is there never a ‘saturation point’ where …um…marital relations are concerned? Whilst I totally ‘get’ that a man has earned the ‘right’ to ‘easy’ access to his own wife, is there such a thing as ‘too easy’? … Even if this were a realistic scenario (that she never says no), my question is, does this bring with it a whole new level of problems, i.e. a certain lack of respect for wife?)”
This is about the stupidest question I have ever heard. This is clearly a woman that has no idea how men think, what men want, or what the average (naive blue-pill) guy expects walking into a marriage.
When a guy is first married and he comes home from work and his wife rips his clothes off like she’s been waiting for him all day… that is “normal” to a guy. No guy expects to get married and experience anything but Proverbs 5:18-19 every single day.
I don’t know what’s average, but I’d guess that the frequency that most guys are looking for is closer to daily than anything else. Maybe two or three times a day in some cases. Guys are stunned when they are put on a schedule of once every week or two if they maintain “good behavior”. This prison ward treatment… and the dietary equivalent would be two slices of bread and some water once a day.
When he dated her, she laughed at his jokes and made it easy to be near her. Now that he’s married… he was to navigate a randomly generated maze in order to be close to her. And the maze doesn’t always have a solution! Even worse… he has to listen to her complain constantly about how she doesn’t feeeeeel close to him! This is a teeth-gnashing, hair-pulling order of catch-22’s.
Frequent sex does not lower a man’s level of respect for his wife. No… it’s just par for the course. It’s the deal that the average guy *thinks* he is getting into when he ties the knot. (If the dude was a player, he’d certainly have no respect for the women he pumped-and-dumped. But marriage is obviously an entirely different game. And one you know nothing about.) If your husband knew you were going to “gregoire” him within months of getting married, he would would have dropped you like the worthless skank you are.
Is there never a ‘saturation point’ where …um…marital relations are concerned? Whilst I totally ‘get’ that a man has earned the ‘right’ to ‘easy’ access to his own wife, is there such a thing as ‘too easy’?
No.
The issue is that men don’t want to be in a courtship relationship when they are married. The trouble is that many married women still want to be courted. It’s a problem.
@Some Guy
I agree that as a man this is initially a startling question. However, I take it as a sign of good faith that she is considering the discussion seriously enough to ask what is on her mind. If she is worried about this, many other wives must be as well. For that reason I very much appreciate that she took the risk of asking.
I bow to your superior discernment, Dalrock.
And I must say… your post in response to her comment borders on the sublime.
[D: Thank you.]
“The issue is that men don’t want to be in a courtship relationship when they are married. The trouble is that many married women still want to be courted. It’s a problem.”
I actually think this is the pretext that women use to end the relationship when they become unhaaaapy.
taterearl says:
February 1, 2013 at 4:55 am
If women experienced marriage like men…nobody would ever get married. Men are finally waking up to the con game presented to them.
Since we are talking about storming beaches, the hassles many men have to go through to get married in the west is about as difficult as the British/Anzac force had against the Turks in the Dardenelles in WW1.
I actually think this is the pretext that women use to end the relationship when they become unhaaaapy.
In some ways. Note, I mean “courtship” in the sense of having to prove one’s worth. I don’t think men should take their wives for granted romantically. But it’s another thing altogether for a husband to constantly have to prove his worth to his wife — if the marriage is like that, then it’s the same as being her boyfriend, but with more obligations and legal risk. It’s a bad deal.
T and all those women that just can’t seem to let things go,
It’s not about you.
Your husband sees you as desirable. That makes you desirable. Your husband sees you as wanting to have sex with him. That means you desire him. Get off your train and get on his.
Stop worrying about what you think about yourself. Stop worrying about what you feel. Stop thinking you know what he feels and what he sees. You don’t, not on your own.
Feel what he feels and see what he sees by paying attention to what he does and what he says. What he says he means is what he means. What he does is motivated by what he tells you it is motivated by. There is no subtext, there is no alternate explanation that only you can divine.
Stop ignoring life. Get on with living. Enjoy your life and stop trying to control it.
Every day you live your life by your own guidance is another day you aren’t living it with your husband. You might as well not be married because for all intents and purposes you are not married, not as long as you stay on your own train.
@Novaseeker
That is why men no longer court women, why they no longer try to ‘win’ her. There’s nothing to win. Except for the obligation of having to push that boulder up the mountain for all eternity.
D has written before on the increased costs of courtship resulting from women delaying marriage, and how these costs have been dumped on men. But us single guys are ignoring the invoices that arrive in the mail, so Marriage/Divorce 2.0 is now the main mechanism for the transfer IME. This is typical of the ethic of the whole TnA biz: get less, pay more. Just like with our gubmint pimpocracy.
Spacetraveller,
I’ll answer your question with a more elemental comparison.
Ever get tired of eating or breathing?
It is that fundamental. I’m not even kidding.
I learned long ago that giving flowers is the kiss of death in a relationship – which is why you send them to the dead for a funeral. As a result, the only time I would ever send flowers to a woman was/is one that I never plan on seeing again. I still do that – flowers mean “Good bye” it’s just that I’m the one saying so.
So wife number two wouldn’t have to wonder why she got flowers for long – the moving truck with my things in it driving away would be the dead giveaway… As would the divorce papers what came shortly thereafter… As the flowers wilted and died – just like the love that might have once been there had wilted and died… 🙂
That is why I will NEVER marry in the US… Women are granted all of the power – not to my liking thank you very much… I can’t change the nature of US laws, but I can assure that they NEVER have a say in my life… I like even welcomes to whatever beach I take an interest in, and the same scenery is boring… Always nice to switch it up, no matter how much you may enjoy a specific beach…
Let’s turn the whole choreplay notion around and look at it from another side.
Suppose that a married man is doing all those things; he’s not only working to support the family, he’s doing all the outside work on the house (mowing, pruning, repair,etc.) and most of the inside work as well. He’s cooking meals for himself and the family, he’s reading to the children and teaching them things. In other words, he’s doing his job, and much of her job. And with all of this, she still keeps a ration card by the bed, controlling sex for whatever reason (to control him, most likely).
Why should he keep “herself” around? What’s she bringing to the homestead that he either can’t do for himself, or isn’t getting anyway?
This whole business of perpetual courtship, endless gatekeeping, unending “just one more thing” game playing simply points up how little the modern woman in America brings to the table. A man likely cooks as well or better, can clean toilets and bathtubs as well, can vacuum as well, can drop children off at daycare just as well, and so forth. The only thing he can’t do is have sex with himself in a non-masturbatory fashion – and if she won’t do that until he’s jumped through hoop after hoop, then what is the point of even having her in the house? She brings no benefits, only liabilities. She’s just a short, angry man with tits…and those are almost always “off limits”.
The modern woman’s obsession with control of men has rendered her essentially redundant.
@ AR – “Why should he keep “herself” around? What’s she bringing to the homestead that he either can’t do for himself, or isn’t getting anyway?”
This is exactly the reason that many women “frivorce”. They look at their husbands, see someone who creates more housework than he does, doesn’t meet her emotional needs and wants sex while not being sexy. If she’s already going to work and dropping her kids off at daycare then he is also redundant.
Congratulations, T, on completely missing the point. Deliberately, or inadvertently, I can’t tell – doesn’t matter which.
T is the most sexually arousing commenter I have ever read. I would love the chance to please a woman like that.
This thread has been interesting. I’ve just learned (according to the blog subject and poster T, at least) that the average American woman, with all of her education, is less sexually continent and aware (despite the reams of experience gained prior to marriage) than a functionally illiterate Latina or literally ignorant (no schooling at all) Muslima. This isn’t even an exaggeration; I’ve sat on a city bus and listened to Guatemalan women describe their husbands’ oral sex techniques, and I’ve had the “pleasure” of seeing two burkha’d women pantomiming effective diddling motions. Yet, T is talking as if these actions are supposed to be innate (seeing as how Muslims are supposed to be virgin until marriage and Central Americans are the low men in NYC’s SMP, I doubt that either pairings as seen on the bus were exemplars of promiscuity.) Somehow, these sexual illiterates manages to figure out what T sees as unnecessary (after all, men should “just know”.) I don’t know if it’s too funny to be sad or too sad to be funny.
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I find it interesting that in her post “Why Your Husband Won’t Meet Your Needs”, Gregoire decides to redefine ‘Respect’ to mean:
Notice she left out the important primary definition:
or
Her definition comes across to me more like giving kudos to an underling or a kid.
Dalrock leaving a comment since I didn’t see a email inbox.
What do you get out of this Athol Kay post that seems to promote the idea of “There’s no X until Y”. Treating sex as a candy reward for children for good behavior.
http://marriedmansexlife.com/2013/04/there-is-no-female-action-plan/
[D: This would appear to be one area where Athol and I disagree.]
Just a thought: Maybe if men didn’t approach the matter as though we women are passive beaches that need to be “stormed” and “taken,” we’d be more comfortable being welcoming? Drop the violent, possessive, “winner vs loser” attitude. If you don’t treat us like “prey,” we won’t have anything to hold up defenses and try to protect ourselves against. Stop acting like it’s a battle and let your wife/girlfriend be an equal partner. And, for god’s sake, give her an orgasm and a back rub now and then, will ya??? THEN you’ll see a welcoming beach!
Guys have tried your approach for years. It’s called Beta. It results in the opposite of what you describe, more of a disdainful beach.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpI3y4Nqt4Y you got to laugh at it
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