Several years ago Captain Capitalism first made the observation that many women in HR act more like they are looking for a boyfriend than looking for professional talent. The Daily Mail has a post up today which only makes sense if you consider it through this lens. The article is about Ms Haseler, a director of a family owned company, and the letter she sent to Mr Allen, a man who had interviewed to be a “self-employed labourer” with the company. After Allen sent Haseler a note chiding her for not keeping her word about contacting him, Haseler went ballistic in her reply. Keep in mind that this is regarding a job interview, and not a first date:
James,
Sincere apologies for not replying to you today, as it happens I actually have a job, and other things to do with my day other than reply to you, when I had already had the misfortune of wasting 30 very long minutes of my life speaking to; not only the most inappropriate person for this job role, but probably for any role, you will spend the next few years applying for, only to get rejected as soon as they meet you.
You are without doubt one of the most irritating, rude, obnoxious and arrogant people I have had the misfortune to meet, and your email just solidifies this.
Also, for an old aesthetically challenged guy with no teeth you have an unbelievable amount of confidence!
What appears to have driven Ms Haseler over the edge is not just that she finds him unattractive, but that he clearly doesn’t know that she (her firm) is out of his league:
James had therefore rejected the self-employed role in this email, so he was not looking for feedback. He said he was not interested.
Pingback: Hiring as courtship. | Manosphere.com
The Daily Mail comments section is sadly full of people defending Haseler. Good on James for apparently rejecting the company first. And may God help people who have to survive working under a woman like this.
I subscribed to a get chicks quick newsletter a few years back and while it didn’t land me any hot babes, I did get hired at a female dominated workplace and I chalk that up to some of the NLP techniques, plus fierce eye contact and a smug grin. I got employee of the month just when I was running my hardest game.
Pingback: Hiring as courtship. | Neoreactive
@Philochoreo
It is hard to say just how much of an ass James was. He may well have been quite bad. But her response is so much more like a scorned woman after a bad first date than a hiring manager that it is really striking.
“‘Feminists’ say men are nothing more than their libidos. In reality, women are the ones more likely to bring SMP behavior into all other spheres of life, including the workplace, as well as the voting booth.”
Obama, Slick Willie and JFK all got the female vote on their charm and sex appeal.
‘At any rate, many Game fundamentals apply to the interview process, voice tonality, posture, and confidence being the three big ones. ‘
Well even if you have confidence apparently it can be negated by ‘aesthetically challenged’.
Interesting what the Internets have bestowed upon us… Notice the “Supported by RightPricePCVu” in the right hand corner.
http://www.sarahhaseler.com/image.html
or here if is suddenly goes down:
http://web.archive.org/web/20150214002244/http://www.sarahhaseler.com/image.html
” . Keep in mind that this is regarding a job interview, and not a first date:”
A first date is a job interview for the job of wife. Or I’m just crazy
There are similarities
– I want a man who’s 6 feet tall
– I want a man who makes more than $100k a year.
– I want a man who owns a nice car.
vs.
– I want a candidate with 5 years of experience in C++, 3 years of experience in Java, 10 years of experience in iOS development, 20 years of Python experience, etc.
We need more sammiches and fewer female HR employees. Hey. I have an idea…
FSK, you forgot:
-13 years of .NET experience.
Oops.
The woman who wrote this letter should be fired if the company has any integrity.
D. Check for a pingback. I wrote that post you asked about.
“10 years of experience in iOS development”
HAHA!
We need more sammiches and fewer female HR employees. Hey. I have an idea…
Would you eat a sammich made by Ms. Haseler?
‘Feminists’ say men are nothing more than their libidos. In reality, women are the ones more likely to bring SMP behavior into all other spheres of life, including the workplace, as well as the voting booth. Many men can put that aside when an important task needs to be done, or if men need to work in a team.
Surprisingly, testosterone is a big factor in their ability to do this.
“Testosterone, now just for sex drive anymore”
Now we know why the workplace and, so, the economy is so bad these days…
This is a running joke I have! I just got promoted on the job and the interview seemed like an interview for a dating service. I busted out laughing at the first line of the article
I’d like to say that women shouldn’t be in positions of authority (oh wait… I think I will just say it: Women should not be in positions of authority). Too many of them simply cannot divorce their personal feelings (read: attraction level) from the job they’re supposed to be doing as managers. Sadly, a lot of men aren’t much better: there’s a reason why every inch of height above 5’9″ for men averages out to an additional $789 per year (source).
But that level of unprofessionalism is truly epic. It’s bad enough that she wrote that to herself to vent, but to actually send it boggles the mind. It’s not like she just typed it out to make herself feel better, either: she composed her rant as an actual e-mail and addressed it to him. She says she sent it by accident, but I doubt it: too many steps are involved. Even if it was an accident, she was typing it on her business computer – the same one she’s supposed to by working on. If I were her boss I would send her packing, and make sure the reporter knew that she was no longer in my employ.
But… why do I think there would have been a different outcome if she had found him attractive?
Would you eat a sammich made by Ms. Haseler?
Probably not, but sammich making would do her good.
ithere’s a reason why every inch of height above 5’9″ for men averages out to an additional $789 per year /I
What is it with the American society and the obsession with height? I have lived in several countries during the course of my lifetime. It is only in America that height (both of men and women) seems to be at a premium.
I doesn’t matter as much for women. As for men? I dunno’, but it sucks for guys who are below the average for height… like me: I’m 5’7″ in my thick socks. If a could go back to my teens and trade 10 points of IQ for 10 inches of height I’d be a four-star general instead of a retired LTC.
“Stature”, literally. Also, the taller the society, the further separated Male & Female heights are. Height is pretty important for most cultures, as its an attraction vector for Women (at least the relative difference). And it’s something you can’t learn. Intrinsic factors and all that.
Batshit crazy can be found everywhere.
Haha, I know quite a few HR women who absolutely think entire companies would go down if it weren’t for their specific skill set….
Is cross dressing wrong… in a play or skit?
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=946200
—
State of the Unions: Why marriage may be better the second, or third, time around
http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/02/13/state-of-the-unions-why-marriage-may-be-better-the-second-or-third-time-around/
Anecdote for the collection: at one of Jon’s old workplaces the women in HR would congratulate themselves on firing a temp when he had bad facial hair or showed no interest in them.
Actually, if you read between the lines, you can see she is turned on by Mr Allen. Roissy must have a Maxim to the effect that the more outraged a woman waxes the more turned on she is.
Farm Boy: ‘Surprisingly, testosterone is a big factor in their ability to do this.
“Testosterone, now just for sex drive anymore”’
Interesting, if true.
Citation needed.
Opus,
I agree, with a twist. I think what happened here if she found the guy unattractive during the interview and didn’t keep her word to reply to him for that reason. But then he sent her a letter ‘chiding her’ for her behavior; i.e. he called her out. His audacity and boldness struck her loins like a bolt of lightning: completely unexpected; suddenly and overwhelmingly powerful. He may as well have sternly put her over his knee, pulled up her skirt and gave her a good spanking.
She is FURIOUS that a man she dismissed as unworthy of her further attention 1) knew how to press (as she saw it) the magic button and, 2) had the boldness to actually do it. The key bit from her rant:
“Also, for an old aesthetically challenged guy with no teeth you have an unbelievable amount of confidence!”
I think it’s very telling that she felt compelled to say that.
‘testosterone appears to genuinely decrease self-interest.’
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/10/study-testosterone-is-truth-serum/263515/
testosterone appears to genuinely decrease self-interest
Inject women we should?
women in HR would congratulate themselves on firing a temp when he had bad facial hair or showed no interest in them.
Proud of such an accomplishment they are?
Low bar they do have
‘Inject women we should?’
Only your wife and only with yours.
Interesting, if true.
Citation needed.
Google “testosterone singlemindedness” one should.
Many “Google Books” references do appear.
Select at will.
@Kowalski
I entirely agree. Women hate, utterly hate being judged and this loathsome toad did just that. I am however reminded of Herod’s step-daughter Salome and her disgust/fascination with The Baptist (at least in Oscar Wilde’s retelling).
My experience (at work) is that women often lose touch with their professional obligations and let the mask slip to reveal their pretensions to be merely a cover for their personal likes and dislikes.
People love to judge others…they hate being the ones judged. Hence why Matthew 7 is important.
Shem: “Obama, Slick Willie and JFK all got the female vote on their charm and sex appeal.”
Sometimes women even admit it. In the 1990s I read an article in a Los Angeles alternative newspaper — the L.A. New Times, I think it was — written by a woman journalist.
She said that Bush lost to Clinton in 1992 because of “the Ick Factor.” She said Bush “reminded every woman of her first husband” (assuming there’s at least a second), and that upon seeing him they just felt a shudder of revulsion and a feeling of “ick!”
I just now Googled “the ick factor” women elections, and came up with all sorts of stuff. Apparently “the Ick Factor” is a real electoral phenomenon.
Lyn87 “If I were her boss I would send her packing, and make sure the reporter knew that she was no longer in my employ.”
I doubt it’d be that easy. In our current climate, she might have a good case for wrongful termination — especially with women on the jury. Remember, she called the job hunter “irritating, rude, obnoxious and arrogant” in her email. That’s a legit reason to not hire him — and she could lie she on the witness stand to back up her claims, and the women on the jury would support her.
Lyn87: “I’m 5’7″ in my thick socks. If a could go back to my teens and trade 10 points of IQ for 10 inches of height I’d be a four-star general instead of a retired LTC.”
Long ago, I spoke with a retired Air Force Lt Col. who’d worked in the Pentagon. A woman. (Fairly famous — perhaps you know who I’m talking about.) She was real tiny. She even joked “sorry I’m such a midget.” (She wasn’t a midget, just very short.)
She mentioned that height means nothing in the military, that it’s all about rank. She said she knew a general, a black man, who was shorter than her. Five feet, at most. Yet any soldier who saw the stars on his shoulders immediately reacted to it and saluted deferentially.
I’ve also heard that to attain any rank of general or admiral, you have to cease being a soldier and become a politician in uniform.
Red Pill Latecomer, you mentioned two things in the above comment, 1st “woman, then black. I have never seen a short white male general. I was in the Army for 6 years.
@RedPillLatecomer
If the HR employee were fired, it would be on the basis that the email that she wrote made her company appear capricious in its hiring practices, which in today’s economy is a PR disaster. She is a bad employee because she is a loose cannon, not because she decided not to hire the man in question. It is a mark of her immaturity that she did not make an effort to keep her moodiness from showing.
Laura, that’s a good argument for the employer, if he fires her, to make in court. And I agree that she should be fired. But I still think that a jury could go either way.
“I’ve also heard that to attain any rank of general or admiral, you have to cease being a soldier and become a politician in uniform.”
This was not always true (witness Curtis LeMay and many of the WW2 generation). But, it is absolutely true now. It began in During Korea and has gotten worse since.
I have now discovered that James Allen was previously in the military – given that the company are based in Plymouth this surely implies that he was a Mariner. Nice way to treat our ex-sevicemen. And since when was a full set of teeth or good looks a job-requirement for labouring.
And is it not also the case (as TFH always reminds us) that Miss Haseler’s judgement of Mr Allen as being rude obnoxious irritating and arrogant is pure projection – from the woman who sent the most obnoxious, arrogant, rude and irritating rejection letter.
I just saw a truck commercial showing two photos to a panel of women. One photo had a guy in front of a large pickup truck and the other had a guy in front of a dependable sedan. Of course, all the women said they’d rather be with the guy in front of the pickup truck. The last woman’s quote was, “The first guy (sedan) looks like the guy who your Mom wants you to marry. The second guy is the one you leave him for (pickup truck).” Also, they superimposed a picture of the same guy in each photo.
RPL,
In my military career, especially after I became a field-grade officer, I interacted with a fair number of flag officers. Three of them were women. One was really cute (she looked better than most women much younger than her), and was very personable and approachable. Everybody liked her and most agreed that she did a good job. The second one was not attractive but was really funny (which was fortunate for me because I made a couple of wise-@$$ comments to her when we met… she laughed and called me a wise-@$$). I didn’t know the third one very well: who knows? Maybe she was good at her job – she certainly wasn’t very attractive. I also knew another female officer who was fast-tracked for flag rank (and drop-dead gorgeous). Her own people couldn’t stand her. Nonetheless, she was getting preferential treatment far beyond her rank and experience, but somewhere along the line she overplayed her hand and got side-lined. I wasn’t privy to the details… but no stars for her, I think.
I have also rubbed elbows and worked with numerous male generals, retired generals, and guys who became generals later. Every single one of them was noticeably taller than me except for one who was a member of an ethnic minority who was maybe a little taller than me. Were they politicians? Yeah, to some degree, and some more than others. But people usually don’t get stars unless they’re good at something besides office politics… and tall if they’re men.
The woman your friend knew at the Pentagon was partially right. Height doesn’t matter much… for women. It also matters less for black men than for white men. Minorities are not discriminated against in the U.S. military: in fact, it works the other way most of the time, especially among officers. As for the stars on the short, black generals’ shoulders: of course people will salute him… he’s a freaking general and you salute the rank. But because of the culture of affirmative action, people may wonder why a person got the rank in the first place. That’s true in the corporate world as well.
@Earl, @Forge the Sky @Yoda @Farm Boy
“testosterone”
This correlates with studies that show testosterone can prevent fatal heart attacks or strokes
When they saved my life last year,
the best doctors in the world used testosterone injections.
Minorities are not discriminated against in the U.S. military: in fact, it works the other way most of the time, especially among officers
If you are white and male, better you must be.
Good that green I am.
@Lyn87
My experience in the military was that hot women didn’t make it past O-4. Occasionally, there’s a semi-decent O-5, who might have been hot when she was younger. The military is not a profession for pretty girls. But I think that might be more a matter of intragender politics. Nothing is as nasty as a female officer who decides she doesn’t like one of her female subordinates.
Cynthia,
I knew quite a number of females who made it past 0-4… more than I can count from memory. At one point I had two female 0-5’s working for me: neither was particularly attractive. One was forced on me against my wishes (she turned out to be a great asset and we’re still friends today), and one I asked for by name (she was a disaster – I consider that asking for her was one of the two really big mistakes I made in my career).
@ Lyn87
“Act like a man, get called a bitch. A love letter to all the badass bitches who aren’t afraid to be themselves in the business world #BiB
Made by Columbia Business School students”
Female general:
.jpg)
Dear Miss ——-
Thank you for attending in connection with the position of wife/friend with benefit/booty call [delete two]. I regret to say that on this occasions your application has not been successful and we have decided to go with another candidate whose youthful age, looks and general hotness, lack of excess weight and comparative chastity more closely match our criteria. We wish you well in your future search for marital or other happiness and thank you for the interest that you have shown in Opus Enterprises.
Dear Cynthia, Lyn, etc.:
This is one of those cases where I honestly don’t know what y’all are talking about here.
It is probably true that very-goodlookin’ women don’t make general officer very often, and it’s for the same reasons that very-goodlookin’ women don’t head many large corporations. Those exceptions that exist usually turn out to be dykes or otherwise unwomanly women.
Women of the very-goodlookin’ variety have much better options than micromanaging a bunch of pencil-pushers in the office. Wealthy men often show up wanting to wife them up on a regular basis, for example. This is just sorta common sense to me, so I don’t know why it’s a source of contention in this context.
Boxer
Boxer,
Being a flag officer doesn’t involve much micro-managing of pencil-pushers in offices. It does, however, involve being able to tell a lot of men what to do… and being treated like royalty on a daily basis. It will not come as a surprise to anyone here that some women like that sort of treatment and (all things being equal) being a pretty woman greases the skids in almost any endeavor, including this one. You are certainly correct that most women with good looks find an easier way to go through life (that’s true of men as well), but I have to admit that soldiering can suck you in, no matter why you started down that path. Once you get more than a few years in, getting out gets very hard: retirement eligibility comes at the 20 year point, attractive females get plenty of attention from fit alpha men, they earn decent pay and receive excellent benefits, they get a hand up whenever they want it, and they get a fat check every month for life once they begin collecting retirement (around age 40 for active duty and age 60 for Guardsmen and Reservists).
-Of course, if this was a man sending this type of rejection letter to a woman (calling her fashion-deaf and chunky, for example) it would be instant lawsuit.
-I had my own experience with this issue, in that I worked for a company where the hiring manager was flamboyantly gay. He would hire men based purely on how attractive they were; our office was full of young, incompetent, inexperienced pretty boys. When I complained about how useless a new hire was I was told, “too bad, he’s super hawt.” *Sigh* Some stereotypes are totally justified
OT – new courtship movie http://oldfashionedmovie.com/
“Ms Haseler, a director of a family owned company”
britspeak primer:-
“Company Director” = career criminal, who by some oversight has not yet been arrested (think: any Guy Ritchie (Mrs Madonna) film. If still unconvinced, refer to the court pages of the local paper. Preferred profession of those who’d rather not admit to the jury what they actually do all day). Otherwise they’d say “carpenter” or “accountant” or “proper thief, y’r’onner”.
“Family owned” = Tax, tax, tax. Whatever shall we do about it, eh?
Hiring one’s kin as “employees” is something even our elected representatives appreciate. Particularly if public subsidies such as “Tax Credits” are in the frame. Doesn’t cost the “business” a penny, the more the merrier. If they actually turned up at “work”, it might cause embarrassment, as seen above.
Considered verdict? Pikey scum, the lot of ’em. Fetch the rope.
As Mr Allen well knew beforehand I suspect, the cheeky monkey. Showing them up with his high-falutin’ laborer’s intellect an’ all.
“window and conservatory firm”
Oh there we go, smoking gun. Bloody UPVC window merchants. Notorious for decades, that whole racket. Put the “cow” into cowboy they did. Dodgy doubleglazing firm, probably a franchise, don’t even own the mitre machines, or the roll-front industrial unit they smoke and look at dirty comics in.
The only reason Miss Haeler is a director of this very blue-collar company is (surely) because she is related to the owner and he has given her the entirely inappropriate job of vetting the casual staff – note Mr Allen is a job seeker but is being offered self-employed work – which is not true employment. Getting a woman who has never had her hands dirty to vet a labourer is a bit like getting a Janitor to vet a consultant surgeon.
Pingback: Father Knows Best: Congratulations, I’m Sorry Edition; End of Hiatus Announcement | Patriactionary
When I was in the military I saluted all officers even the incompetent ones, including a black military doctor malpracticed himself to death, and a black female nursing supervisor who couldn’t understand cause/effect of cooking the acuity books to hide lack of staffing and the pentagon not sending more personal. Military non Asian minority nurses that fail their nursing boards 3 times in a state are transferred to another state to try again.