I happened to be on Shiela Gregoire’s blog the other day and noticed one of her top trending posts was from a year ago, titled When Women Start Saying “No” to Church Activities. As Gregoire explains, this is a column* she wrote for Faith Today, Canada’s largest Christian magazine. It opens with:
I hate it when someone from our church family dies.
I’m not talking about hating grief. Grief is a normal part of life. I’m talking about hating guilt.
And when someone I don’t know from our church passes away, I invariably receive that guilt-inducing phone call: Can you make sandwiches for the funeral?
I must have missed the Sunday School lesson when they taught girls how to make funeral sandwiches…
The premise of the column is that women in the church are working too hard while men coast. In order to right the situation women need to collectively stop saying “yes” when asked to do things like make sandwiches:
…this dysfunctional system can’t right itself until the over-functioning people start saying no.
Looking around, I think we’re just about at that point. Women are just too tired, and few men will willingly take on the jobs women have been doing in the background for years. If churches want to support the women in their midst, then, they will start adapting to the new reality.
Gregoire frames this as being asked to do too much, but the reality is it isn’t the amount of work which offends her but the kinds of work she and other women are being asked to do. Her feminist obsession with getting men to make sandwiches and casseroles and take an equal interest in decorating the church for Easter and Christmas is transparent. The entire column is riddled with feminist clichés; the harried super mom who manages to do it all, the lazy husband, guilt, the “new reality” etc. Like her secular counterparts Jessica Valenti and Margaret Sanger, Gregoire is resentful of being a woman and deeply envious of men.
Gregoire’s burning resentment of cooking and cleaning and all things womanly didn’t end when she traded in her graduate work in women’s studies for the title of Christian wife and mother. To confirm this, you need look no farther than the title of her blog:
To Love, Honor, and Vacuum …when you feel more like a maid than a wife and mother.
In her book by the same name Gregoire explains that biblical headship and submission means wives need to give their husbands lists of housework to do:
My husband is motivated by lists. If I just tell him I would like him to help clean up after dinner, he doesn’t know what to do. But if there is a list of daily and weekly chores on the fridge, and he can see what is left to be done, he’s like a Tasmanian devil whirling around the house, cleaning.
But no amount of twirling, decorating, or sandwich making by her husband or the men of the church will make Gregoire’s torment go away. So long as she resents being a woman she will be consumed with envy of men.
*You can see the original print version of the column here.
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Ska-doosh!
I agree with your general idea that many women view empathic and giving behavior as low status and want to avoid it.
That said, I have also witnessed religious women I know (I am not one) genuinely burned out from all of the demands that church activities place on them and seem to enforce with guilt.
As a general rule, both men and women like to give and be appreciated for it, but no one likes to be expected to give constantly and guilted into doing things. So I think that IS a separate dynamic, that perhaps compounds the first one that you’ve been talking about lately (about women looking down on giving and empathy).
I mention this because I think that if you want to make a point and have it reach new people, it is important not to exaggerate, as that destroys credibility. Exaggeration and overstatements will only work with people who are already “converted.”
‘So long as she resents being a woman she will be consumed with envy of men.’
That’s what it really comes down to. They get a lifetime’s worth of brainwashing to shun the feminine and become terrible pseudo-men in the process.
Though, I should say that it really goes the other way: Because she engages in the sin of envy, she hates her own life; hates the raison d’être of her very creation. Can hatred of that creature’s creator actually be far behind?
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Even though on the surface it seems like a widespread hatred of masculinity…deep down it’s a widespread hatred of femininity. Just ask any woman who thinks loving her husband, raising children, and taking care of a home how much grief she gets from WOMEN.
I mean if women hate men so much…why do they want to be just like them.
@Cane
It is a fair question whether resentment or envy comes first. That the two are intertwined is more important than which comes first, and one might argue they are so closely related that neither really comes first. Part of what tipped me in the direction of resenting being a woman (as the beginning) comes from seeing feminists describe their resentment of their “femaleness”. Pirran linked to another article by the same author I linked to in yesterday’s post Culinary frigidity. This one was about Cope’s pregnancy:
On the same site, there is another post by a different feminist which focuses on the same theme titled: NURSING WHILE BUTCH: A Comic
These women are even farther down the path than Gregoire (although far less dangerous because they don’t come with a Christian stamp of approval). Sometimes seeing something in the extreme makes the more subtle examples easier to spot.
They get a lifetime’s worth of brainwashing to shun the feminine and become terrible pseudo-men in the process.
This is precisely why good parenting is absolutely necessary. The only way to prevent a child from being brainwashed (girls being told that they are princesses and boys that they are born criminals and nobodies) is to prevent the brainwashing process, particularly in their formative years. Even Disney is not innocent anymore.
I bet she demands to be treated with the same treatment she resents. From the government on down to individual men she expects and demands empathy and respect.
Have her go out and shovel snow and repair roofs while the men prepare lunch in the warm kitchen talking about their wives butts.
@greyghost
Yes. If the ship is sinking she demands the Full Titanic Experience.
To repeat what Cane Caldo and earl have already said, your last sentence – “so long as she resents being a woman she will be consumed with envy of men.” – sums up the entire feminist position.
So many women are resentful of being women – any man should avoid any such women like the
Plague.
Mike from UK
The article is bad – the comments are worse.
If they’re going to complain about women being stuck doing the nursery duty, they need to get over their paranoia about men being with children… or they could just, ya’ know, take care of their own kids.
If they’re too busy with ministries, maybe they could stop doing the ministries that men ought to be doing, like teaching, preaching, and organizing everything. When the early church needed to set up a ministry to feed the widows they didn’t turn to the church ladies, they commissioned deacons to see to it – all of whom were men (Acts 6).
This seems like the churchian version of asking for toasted ice again – they want to be seen doing the work, and they discourage the men from being involved (and even demand in the cases of ministries that involve children), but they also want to be seen as martyrs… or at least selfless, harried victims of lazy men.
Well, according to Microsoft, in the future, women shall rule and men shall be invisible… just as it is today but with more high tech stuff and so-so background music. Men shall prepare the meals and the advanced technology will just invent itself. Soon, the oppressive sandwich tyranny shall end.
Well Chris Rock mentioned it before…’Women love to complain.’
@Lyn87
Not to mention stop doing the ministries which ought not be done at all. There is no need for a “ministry” teaching envy and resentment, teaching the opposite of what Titus 2 says older women are to teach younger women. Yet the column/blog post itself is part of Sheila’s self styled “ministry”.
Interesting set of complaints. No mention of who sets up all the tables and chairs for that meal, who handles parking, who sweeps and mops the floors afterwards. Rhetorically wonder why some work is considered exhausting and other work “just is”.
One legitimate aspect of this complaint might stem from the demographics of her church. Some churches consist mainly of cotton-tops, and likely have a funeral every other week, if not every week. That would get old, I agree, but not just for teh wimmenz.
Lyn87
This seems like the churchian version of asking for toasted ice again – they want to be seen doing the work, and they discourage the men from being involved (and even demand in the cases of ministries that involve children), but they also want to be seen as martyrs… or at least selfless, harried victims of lazy men.
That’s an accurate summary. It isn’t new. Years ago I happened to read part of the famous feminist health manual “Our Bodies, Our Selves”. The section on contraception was interesting, it can be boiled down to “Men won’t bother to be involved in this because they are selfish” at the beginning of the text, a discussion of various methods with pros and cons, then the last paragraph was along the lines of “and if men did get involved they would do it wrong, so we have to take care of it ourselves anyway”.
“You men won’t do this the way I want it done so I’ll have to do it myself and then complain about having to do it all myself”. Looks like a classic martyr complex to me.
In any organization the Pareto rule (80/20) rule likely applies. No reason churches should be different.
All that said, Dalrock’s summary of Gregoire’s real complaint is dead on the mark.She doesn’t like being female.
Maybe men are just tired because of all this chick’s feminist nonsense permeating throughout the churches across the West. It’s hard to be a moral center (which is what a husband is) when your wife is constantly disobedient and encouraged by your pastor to remain so.
‘If churches want to support the women in their midst, then, they will start adapting to the new reality.’
The mantra of every feminist. The churches should adapt to their reality…instead of the churches promoting the Gospel to the world.
In my church
so as to please the women
the men make the sandwhiches
and the women
fell the trees for the coffin
the feminist lumberjacks process the wood
and dig the the six foot graves
they also
designed and build the hearse
change its oil and tires
they cut the marble rock for the tombstones
in the feminist quarry
haul it in trucks to the feminist tombstone maker
who cuts and shapes and polishes it
they chisel the names in the tombstone
they mow the grass in the graveyard
and they put up and repair
the fence around it
and they carry the coffin
and gently lower it.
it sucks, and it is unfair
but such is feminism
that da GBFM now has to spread
mayonaise on bread
and put turkey and tomato and lettucsueus
dat i don’t even gets to eats!!!
(now and then when nobdody is looking i eat sums, but don’t tell bnobody lzozolzlozoz!)
To Love, Honor, and Vacuum …when you feel more like a maid than a wife and mother.
It just occurred to me. She looks down on maids and cooks, doesn’t she? For example, she would never say
“To Love, Honor, and Code …when you feel more like a computer programmer than a wife and mother.
To Love, Honor, and Fly …when you feel more like a combat pilot than a wife and mother.
To Love, Honor, and Write …when you feel more like a mystery writer than a wife and mother.”
All the above are professions that women do now, no question that the women in these professions would have these sentiments at times, as they are all jobs that require 100% commitment. The difference is that being a combat pilot is SEXY, and being a maid is LOW.
For Mrs Gregoire, it’s about the ego, not the work.
Good going Mrs Gregoire, say, what about your maid, does she get to bitch and whine also? Or is that different because she only gets paid 15/hr, whereas you practically own your man slaves ass for life?
@AndyC
I was wondering, why did that video piss me off so much? And then it hit me – the utter ingratitude. The total and complete dismissal of any good we men have done. The frivolous, childish contempt.
I think most men here at this point realize that women for the most part are not, and never will be capable of doing our jobs. While the reality is we probably could do theirs if we had to. Instead of appreciating us, and our generosity and kindness, they seek to undercut and supplant us.
They make themselves both disgusting and, ironically, utterly irrelevant.
Because the only real job we truly need them for is … Love. And when they allow themselves to be sucked dry by envy and petty hatred, they become incapable of that. Many are now at best able to mimic the forms of love, but no longer have the soul for it.
So I guess she’ll have more time to chip in for vehicle and home repairs for widows, maybe help stack some firewood, fix a roof? This is what a Church family is about and she doesn’t want to contribute, farewell and good riddance. Don’t call me when you need something Sheila.
I guess “The least of these my brethren” doesn’t resonate at all with her? She’s going to have a bad day in her future.
To Love, Honor, and Build
all the homes and pave the roads
to invent the lightbulb and electricity
to invent the computer
and build the iphone and internet
to drive around in garbage trucks and collect
all the trash
to fight all the wars
to police the streets
to fight the fires
and rush into burning homes
to build churches and schools
to write the Bible and the Great Books
to pen the Constitution and DEclaration of Independence
to architect the empire state building
and build every building
in new york city and
beyond
to erect all the skyscrapers
to coach little league
to fight on the front lines on foreign shores in spurious wars
to create google and yahoo and youtube
to build the shopping malls
and the cars everyone drives there
and to change the oil
and tires
in said cars
to drill for oil
and build the power plants
and erect the high voltage towers
and string up all the wires …
to lose it all via alimony
to lose one’ kids to the feminsit state
to lose one’s retirement and pensionz
. . . .
when you feel more like a slave than a husband and father.
Damn you, Dalrock. I had forgotten about Field Marshall Gregoire until this post!
I meant to put something in my post about that, but my wife distracted me (not the good kind of distraction: she was on her way out the door and we had to discuss who’s doing what today). I’ll venture to say that most of the ministries that churches do aren’t necessary, and quite a few of them are actually counterproductive. Most “ministries” and “programs” and “groups” serve to fragment the body of Christ into sub-groups rather than promote unity, which is one of the prime directives for the church. Do away with them, focus on the gospel and the mission, and stop preventing men from leading those ministries, and Sheila will have more than enough time to slap together a sandwich or two. She would feel a lot less “over-committed” if she restricted herself to doing what she ought to be doing.
I’m not sure why so many women think that “women’s work” is so hard, anyway. I can pile a turkey platter up with hand-made sandwiches in about 20 minutes, and that’s if I want them to be “fancy.” Women generally get the easy tasks that free men up to do the hard stuff – it’s been that way since the dawn of time. Any man who’s ever lived alone knows that he can get ALL his housework done in a hour or two (a couple of times a week), while the average women takes all day every day to do it… while complaining about how hard she works at it.
Because the only real job we truly need them for is … Love.
Close, but I need respect from my wife, not love. Sex is a part of that as well. Women need the love.
They never get tired of being selfish and feeling put-upon. Making sandwiches isn’t hard. I know, I worked at a sub-shop for a couple years. Nobody’s told her in real life to get over herself, that she has it easy, and that being a woman isn’t a curse, it’s a blessing. If she had to live as a man, she’d kill herself cause she can barely even handle being a woman and that’s a helluva lot easier.
Like her secular counterparts Jessica Valenti and Margaret Sanger, Gregoire is resentful of being a woman and deeply envious of men.
Nailed it.
There has been a sammich strike for decades now, and par the course, this feminist wants men to step up and act like women while she pretends to be a man. She says the women are so tired now and men should pick up the slack. Well how about you women quit trying to be men and get back in the kitchen. Then you’ll have your sammiches back.
Women who complain about the “maid” thing always make me wonder… is that a subtle confession of latent slob and/or hoarding tendencies?
I mean, if you live alone, you still have to dust, vacuum, mop, cook, clean the kitchen and bathroom, etc. and I don’t remember ever hearing a single person complain so bitterly about that. Occasional whining about entropy, yeah, but not this feminist loathing attitude. It makes me want to ask her something like, “So, if you were single, you’d never clean up after yourself? Why are you upset at the thought of doing chores as a married woman that you’d still have to do if you were single?”
She probably wouldn’t realize Dalrock’s right about the ugly motivation and just make up more feminist babble blaming men, though. :-\
I’ve got it! Personal Jesus, being a feminist fantasy, doesn’t have a stomach and thus never gets hungry hence doesn’t need to have sammiches! If a part of the body of Christ is hungry it just means that they aren’t worshipping Personal Jesus properly. Do we know why?
Because Personal Jesus doesn’t want any poor feminists to have existential crises because someone asked them to make a sammich and would rather the grieving hungry just starve silently to avoid such a travesty. Isn’t Personal Jesus good? He SO understands feminism.
@Andy C, I couldn’t get to the end of the video, but up to the five minute mark, I counted five males including the old hag’s dad and the guy serving tea. In all the other scenes, the men were appendages, extensions of the awesomeness that is woman.
Dalrock,
Really, Shelia doesn’t hate that she is asked to make funeral sandwiches. In reality, Shelia hates that she is asked to do anything, at all!
I think one of the cornerstones of feminism is that women want to make the rules and the decisions but they don’t ever want someone else to ask them to do something and under no circumstances do they ever want someone else in authority who has the power to make them do something they don’t want to do. To a feminist, every day that they wake up is a day that is all about them. Kind of like Erika a couple days ago, she wants Christian men in her church to ask her out on a date. But that is only because she wants someone else to pay to entertain her, to do the things she wants to do. Everything in feminism is about the woman seeing to it that she gets her wants met on her terms as she is in control.
I think I went and discussed on this blog the time I worked for 9 women in their “start-up” company. I answered the freebie ad on Craig’s List and met 3 of my future 9 bosses. I was hired (but that was probably because I was the only one willing to take the job.) These 9 women were all wives of men who have collectively agreed to finance their on-line fashion and marketing company. But they didn’t actually know how to do anything, technical. They didn’t know much abotu business either, but they knew how to yell and give orders. So I was the guy they hired to do all the work, to build the website, to set up the databases, to configure all their computers, to install all the software, to answer the phones and help them with things like Excel, Access, Powerpoint, Visio, Word, to do everything. And these 9 women liked to yell at me…. all the time…. and they assured me that each one of them was my boss and I had to do whatever they told me to do. Well after about four weeks of this crap (getting pulled into 9 different directions) I went to the most reasonable one of them and told her that I can only do one thing at a time and that the 9 of them had to get together and decide what to have me do first, what was most important. She resented that I make her out to be the “office b-tch” whatever that is but she got them all together and they held a meeting. At the end of the meeting, none of them gave an inch (since they were all equals, none having any authority over any others), they just insisted that everything remain the same, that since I got a check each week that I had to be all things to all of them, because all of their pet projects were important and I just had to put up with it. Well, I tried. After eight weeks, I quit. I just walked out under a barrage of yelling and hellfire from 3 of them. I get home and not even a week later, one of their husbands gives me a call and asks me (almost begs me) to go back to the office, to go back to my job, to “help him out” because he and the other husbands were getting sick and tired of having to take time away from THEIR days to go and DO THINGS for their wives in their office, because none of these women were willing to follow the orders of anyone else. I told him no. He asks me again and I ask him why his wife didn’t call me? He says, “…you know how women are. Look, just help me out here, please?” The answer was still no. I think their office was empty with big For Lease signs in the windows about a month later, probably because these husbands were siick and tired of taking time away from their days AND writing all the checks. I don’t even think they ever went live with the website.
Feminism can’t possibly exist in a vacuum. Because with feminism, nothing gets done. I learned that first hand. Feminism is a parasite that sucks off its patriarical host of productivity, order, purpose, and authority. We can not have feminism in the absence of the patriarchy. So long as there are men who are willing to work, be controlled, take orders, and get things done, feminism has an opportunity to sieze some portion of that surplus productivity and wealth creation for its own self-centered ends. Take away that wealth creation, feminism ceases to exist faster than that office disappeared.
Ms. Gregoire, in this world, there are about 5% of the people who do. It is not a man/woman thing. In every aspect of my life, from sports to organizing the “annual fishing trip” to running a busyness, it has always been the same few people who get the event/team/job ready and THEN the others participate.
Women are just as lazy as men. I know in the Church of my youth, it was the same men who were the ushers/table movers/hall sweepers, etc. ALWAYS!
Just as it was the same women who made the sammiches/coffee, covered the tables, etc.
Difference was, they KNEW, that if they didn’t do it, it wouldn’t get done, so they took PRIDE in their volunteering, and dedicated their labour to helping bring the others closer to God. You know, the Big Fella that you as a Christian are supposed to be living your life for?
Please remember everyone.
Feminism is for your church and school and court and univeristy.
But not for Hollywood:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/diverse-casts-deliver-higher-ratings-777428
Behind every 100 “strong” feminists there is a man teaching them how to seize your property and deliver it unto him.
Let’s play the one degree of feminist separation:
https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2014/12/22/the-ugly-feminists-of-christmas/
“But…I’m not a feminist. I’m a Strong
IndependentChristian Woman®”‘Close, but I need respect from my wife, not love.’
Yup, the only female on this planet who is capable of giving a man love is his mother. That’s why it is important to know the differences between a mother and a wife and to not make your wife into your mother.
@IBB
When it comes to feminism it’s all about control freakism. They want to give the orders or do things they like…but only when they feel like it.
@IBB
That was the greatest story I ever read. Seriously, it has to become a post of its own.
Jonathan Swift could not have done better.
@IBB
You should submit that to return of kings and ask them if they could publish it on their site
Oooh, a subject I have a lifetime of experience with, women, church work, and the supposed imbalance between how much women contribute to it versus men.
It is true that when funerals and anything that requires food preparation is required, women are called to serve. When I was a young girl, even in a community where women working full time has always been the norm, the women somehow still had time to volunteer their cooking and serving skills.
In fact, it was not unusual for there to be too many hands or too much food in the kitchen, food more elaborate than a sandwich I might add, as there was such a turnout of women and families desiring to help other families in need. Even women from other churches would show up because our small town was one where everyone knew everyone else. I honestly can’t remember ever hearing a woman complain about being expected to serve in this way, or of being too burnt out to do it.
As to whether women carry a disproportionate share of the burden, I don’t think this is true. At all. It can be true that some churches ask a lot of those people in the church who are willing to work. This is primarily because there are so few willing to volunteer their time any other day than Sunday. But from what I have seen in my life in the church is that the men who are willing to show up and work do so consistently, contribute a lot, and work hard.
Even in our mostly black church, where you’d think the pews would be filled with women, most of the ushers are men, and men are everywhere doing all kinds of work. Women too, but the distribution of labor is roughly equal at best. I think there are more men working though. The fact that women are called to prepare the food is not a denigration of women’s other skills but a complimentary nod to the fact that women cook and serve well, and is largely based on the model of a time when women were already at home near the kitchen anyway. Just make an extra casserole and bring it.
But all the setting up, putting away tables, etc? The men are present and accounted for to do that. Additionally, at least in our church, the Biblically outlined work of ministry such as visiting the sick, feeding the homeless and ministering to prisoners? Mostly men doing that too. And it was that way in my childhood church as well where there was a preponderance of women in the pews.
I haven’t really witnessed the phenomenon Sheila is referring to. Even when I consider all the churches I have visited or been in contact with in the area I live in now (MC/UMC), it’s the same. Men working. Men witnessing. Men doing the heavy lifting of the gospel with their wives working alongside.
I can remember when I felt the way she felt, before I stopped parroting foolishness and bothered to observe carefully. We’re just conditioned to complain about being called upon to do something that someone else isn’t. The only way to overcome it is to learn to pray, think, and bring every thought captive. We’re not supposed to be complaining about this stuff. And when I truly was being stretched too thin by some of my church responsibilities, my husband reined me in before I even got a chance to really complain about it.
Funny how that works.
IBB, that needs to get screenplay treatment.
As per C.S. Lewis, I can’t accurately say that this “woman” is a Christian, but I can accurately say, if she is a Christian, she’s a bad one.
Earl
Yup, the only female on this planet who is capable of giving a man love is his mother. That’s why it is important to know the differences between a mother and a wife and to not make your wife into your mother.
That’s true. For all the snarky ranting of feminists about “men’s mommy issues”, there surely a temptation for some men to just let a wife “mother” him. On the flip side, the control issues that all women have can lead to her trying to “mother” him, if not at first then after children arrive. This seems to be true regardless of whether she’s SAHM or working in the economy – the mistress of the house gets into a mental state where she’s the only adult, and everyone else is some sort of child who must be supervised. This leads to a matriarchal home, and sooner or later both herself and himself will find it stifling, annoying, “just plain wrong” and so forth. A matriarchal home may also lead to stunting the real growth of children, especially boys, because “let Mom do it” is way too easy an out.
Remember, men and women, it is not possible to spell the word “smother” without including “mother”.
The interesting thing about resentment is that it makes everything thing you do for someone you resent both extremely exhausting, and seem like a gigantic task, so the tired hectic women are actually doing considerably less than women of a couple generations ago, and feeling like they are doing more.
“Women who complain about the “maid” thing always make me wonder… is that a subtle confession of latent slob and/or hoarding tendencies?”
Not hoarding; those women are only insecure in my experience. The one hoarder I knew personally handled it by not having visitors over. She was a nice person. I also heard through family about the hoarders of my grandparents’ time, the ones who acquired the tendencies from the Great Depression, and bad attitudes just don’t fit the stories.
“Slob” is a much broader descriptor, though. Women being the domestic sex, it’s pretty bad when they can’t be bothered to keep a clean home. Insecurity is way different from carelessness.
OK that’s it. Had enough of the whingeing.
I’m going to have a proper cremation (an Imperial ton of stacked cordwood).
Everybody can bring their own ribs and marshmallows. Sammich ingredients will also be provided for the squeamish, pre-frozen and sliced on the bandsaw.
GiL, Ron, & earl,
To be honest, I felt really bad for the guy who called me. I almost wanted to go back and put up with their sh-t just to make things easier on him in his marriage. And I suppose I would have been more anxious to do that if I didn’t have two or three job opportunities inside of a week of me walking.
I don’t really think that situation is all that unique. I’m sure things like that have been tried time and again. And I’m not even saying can’t be good managers. They can. Sometimes. They just have to realize that feminism plays no part in business management and the focus should be about trying to get things done (and that means sometimes listening to your subordinates.)
I was just frustrated with those 9 women. I wasn’t angry the way I was the time I was hired to be CIO and the VP of HR generalism nuked the people I wanted to hire to build 3 websites. She wanted me to be more inclusive in my hiring and I told her that the two women I interviewed weren’t qualified. She said that is fine and I didn’t have to hire them, but I need to keep looking because the men I wanted didn’t pass her screening. I told the president of the company that I couldn’t make the deadline now because I was spending too much time trying to hire people (instead of getting them working) and he had empowered me to make all the hiring decisions, what gives? He gave me some BS-politically-correct-schpeal about how we all had to work together and I told him that HR girl was not going to be working on these three websites, I was, and I needed her to butt the f-ck out. She dug her heels in and threatened the president of the company that she would go to the board of directors if he overruled her and I just walked off the job. Yup, that office closed I think.
When real people are spending real money to get real things done, there simply is NO PLACE for feminism. All it does, is destroy. It never creates.
I just read the article. *Sigh*
And, please, ask people to throw money into a pot to have the funeral catered, rather than requiring women to make sandwiches. I’d much rather give $20 than an hour of my time.
This misses the point of having church members on the ground supporting the fellow members of their local body during their hour of need. If I lose a loved one, which one blesses me more: Your $20 donation to have a stranger serve me a sandwich, or my sister in Christ to serve me my sandwich with a hug and reassurance of the truth that God comforts the brokenhearted?
Sheesh, that was a depressing use of my lunch hour. At first I was just stunned that they were serving sandwiches, LOL. Our pastor decreed years ago that we are to serve the homeless the equivalent of the same kind of meal we’d serve our families at a Sunday dinner, and we do that.
I couldn’t imagine being put out by donating an hour or two of my time to comfort a grieving fellow church member.
*Sigh*. It’s really gotten bad.
Well we can see how it smothers businesses and families…and now the tentacles are getting into the churches. Look how well that is working out for them.
The consumption and thus the making of the sandwich is very poor gastronomy and I regret to say one habit from your colonial period which your founding fathers lacked the foresight when writing the Constitution (that means you Jefferson) to abolish. Had he done so, a proper meal would be served doubtless prepared by Mrs Gregoire’s household servants for one cannot reasonably expect a person who is important enough to get paid for writing down words about how she is so oppressed by the patriarchy and of the Christian variety at that to engage in voluntary culinary pursuits especially of the sort invented whilst at the roulette table by that rapscallion Baron Montagu, The Fourth Earl of Sandwich whose mistress Miss Ray and who bore him five illegitimate children was shot dead in the foyer at Covent Garden Opera House in 1779 prior to her performance on the said stage. He is also responsible for the Sandwich Islands. Now you see the sort of person Mrs Gregoire has to deal with.
@Ras
Word.
IBB, that needs to get screenplay treatment.
It would be filled with drama, but what compelling ending would be possible?
I don’t make a great amount of money but I do volunteer my time at the church. I was told by one of the volunteers that giving of your time in many cases is more important than giving money.
@Elspeth
“And, please, ask people to throw money into a pot to have the funeral catered, rather than requiring women to make sandwiches. I’d much rather give $20 than an hour of my time.”
This misses the point of having church members on the ground supporting the fellow members of their local body during their hour of need. If I lose a loved one, which one blesses me more: Your $20 donation to have a stranger serve me a sandwich, or my sister in Christ to serve me my sandwich with a hug and reassurance of the truth that God comforts the brokenhearted?
This is spot on.
It seems very impersonal to me to have store bought food, or to have caterers milling about. I’d rather eat something of average quality made by hand than the prettiest gourmet meal from the store.
BradA, it sounds like comedy to me. where it just gets worse and worse and unbelievably worse for the protagonist, with a mass of comedic schadenfreude at the end.
Earl, giving money is easy and cheap. Giving time is valuable and hard.
One year on my sons’ hockey team, we could not get one parent to volunteer for the fund raising position. I said fuck it, why don’t we all just write a cheque for 50 to a hundred bucks each. It was overwhelmingly endorsed.
Opus, how dare you! How dare you! How dare you dis my beloved sammich.
Dalrock, you had to go and make me click on a link to Sheila’s blog. I could have just hit my thumb with a tack hammer and saved time.
Seriously do all the women who follow this blog realize that the only reason they have regular roles at church is because they have the freedom of working part time or just not working. The whole modern church infrastructure is built on women volunteering because they have more free time on their hands.
BradA, it sounds like comedy to me. where it just gets worse and worse and unbelievably worse for the protagonist, with a mass of comedic schadenfreude at the end.
I guess I would need to see some modern movies to know how they end. It doesn’t seem clear to me, but perhaps they are no longer clear.
One legitimate aspect of this complaint might stem from the demographics of her church. Some churches consist mainly of cotton-tops, and likely have a funeral every other week, if not every week. That would get old, I agree, but not just for teh wimmenz.
One also might wonder if the congregation of Sheilah’s “church” is predominately female – you know, one of those churchian franchises that has for so long shamed, degraded, marginalized, and ignored men that most of them stopped coming altogether. If that be the case, then Sheilah and her fellow Christofeminists have only the women in the mirror to blame for all of the “burdens” with which they’re saddled.
@JDG
I thought about you when I first saw her post. I knew you would enjoy a good sammich discussion.
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If I lose a loved one, which one blesses me more: Your $20 donation to have a stranger serve me a sandwich, or my sister in Christ to serve me my sandwich with a hug and reassurance of the truth that God comforts the brokenhearted?
I’d have to say that, given the highly impersonal nature of most churchian franchises today (and I have to believe that what Mizz Gregoire calls “church” is exactly such), you would be lucky to have anyone even acknowledge the passing of your loved one {“Who? The name doesn’t ring a bell.”), let alone offer you condolences for your loss.
True story: Two years ago there was an incident that made local TV news in which an elderly and infirm gentleman (a widower, I believe) had died in his bed – after which his decomposing remains weren’t discovered for a full month. What stuck with me most, and the reason I’ll never forget this incident, is that the reporters interviewed members of the man’s CHURCH who expressed “shock” and “dismay” at the discovery of the body. Apparently, it wasn’t until a member of the congregation remembered that “Oh, hey, I think Elmer has been sick, which is why nobody’s seen him in ages. I guess I’ll go drop in on him” and went to do just that that the body was discovered (apparently this person had a key to Elmer’s house, which makes the whole thing even more unsettling).
If one can’t count on the support of one’s church in their dying hour of need, whom on this earth CAN they count on? And is a church that allows that to happen to one of its own really a church?
I would imagine that if Sheila Gregoire were a member of “Elmer’s” church, she would be chiding him posthumously for inconveniencing and traumatizing, ny the matter and timing of his death, herself and the other precious Daughters of the King. Matter o’ fact, Elmer’s church probably WAS full of such, which explains that whole tragic situation.
I do not think the future will be given to women and feminism.
IBB’s scenario is something I see on and off. I helped start a local Chamber of Commerce. Same thing happened and it closed. The two women in charge had three meetings to decide what colors should be used for a Labor Day parade float. The initial meeting was suppose to be an hour long. I left because I had to work and so did some of the others, but the two women who attempting to start it and some other women stayed. The initial 2 had business that their husbands funded (they eventually closed) and had all the time in the world to sit at a breakfast place and ponder colors. Labor Day… how about red/white/blue… nooooooooooo!!!
I was suppose to be one of the office holders, but I pretty much didn’t squat because “they were in charge”. They were astounded that after the first year, the biz renewal for membership dropped by 1/2.
Sure there might be a time when feminism reigns, but ultimately there will be a backlash and collapse and the men will have to rebuild society and have women submitting. Empires never last neither will a continued FI.
Females think too short sightetly to ever keep something going. At least with empires that had men in charge they could go for a while as the corruption slowly caught up to them…but matriarchial command crashes and burns very quickly.
I’d have to say that, given the highly impersonal nature of most churchian franchises today (and I have to believe that what Mizz Gregoire calls “church” is exactly such), you would be lucky to have anyone even acknowledge the passing of your loved one {“Who? The name doesn’t ring a bell.”), let alone offer you condolences for your loss.
When you go to a large church (which we do) this is a real risk when your involvement starts and stops with an hour and a half service on Sunday. I agree. This is another reason why everyone (or as many people as possible) need to be involved.
There have been times when we heard of a person dying and we had no idea who they were. But the people with whom we work closely in our church’s outreach ministry? We would miss them. They would miss us. There would be someone to notify church leadership that someone from the Agent Man household is sick or bereaved.
I can’t help but wonder how much responsibility Peter or Polly Pew-warmer need to take for the fact that they don’t know anyone and no one knows them. And we have volunteered to serve at the funerals of church members that we didn’t know well solely because they were our fellow church members.
Her inability to say “No” is someone else’s fault and not her own. She’s overworked because it accords her the opportunity to draw attention to her situation.
She isn’t serving God or her community. Just herself.
I thought about you when I first saw her post. I knew you would enjoy a good sammich discussion.
Tis truly appreciated.
I wonder if Sheila will ever be asked to do ANYTHING for the church again? Really, as far as being a church member goes, the letter is a real bridge burner.
Good point Laura. I can’t imagine that went over well.
Side note: I found a link to an online representation of the original print article: http://digital.faithtoday.ca/faithtoday/20140304?pg=73
Gee, This will really turn around the incredible drop in men attending church over the last few decades. The truth is that younger men are refusing to marry and refusing anything to do with these American women who have over inflated egos. Men slave away their life, for what? A woman to complain? NO THANKS! Men even created machines like the vaccume to make their life easier and women still complain.
It is a shame that American women even exist. They don’t love their husbands, they hate their own children and dump them in daycare and then sit around complaining. Here’s a hint, don’t like church? Don’t go! Its a joke trying to force men to marry these sluts anyway.
” So long as she resents being a woman she will be consumed with envy of men.”
And…BOOM goes the dynamite.
On /r/marriedredpill we recommend the book “When I Say No I feel Guilty” without the bitter feminist snark. Seriously? I hate when somebody dies because I may have to make sandwiches? Ice water in this woman’s veins.
@Lyn87: ” Any man who’s ever lived alone knows that he can get ALL his housework done in a hour or two (a couple of times a week), while the average women takes all day every day to do it… while complaining about how hard she works at it.”
It is 1-2 hours a day, tops. That includes doing the kids homework, dishes, dinner and 1/2 the laundry. Does the average woman really complain about how hard keeping house is? Sure if you have to start the fire, milk the cows, slaughter the chicken, and cook the damn bird in a snowstorm.
@Andy C: The video, it just seemed like a terrifying sterile world. The bit characters in the movie, mostly male, seemed all totally absorbed by the computer image of the moment. The only human connection was her skyping with an older guy, probably her dad, about his recovery from a procedure or injury. Even then the woman just smiled thinly, silently checking off another item on her to do list of the day.
She says the women are so tired now and men should pick up the slack.
That is not happening in my household. There are no tired women here. I am unmarried. Out there in the world there is a tired single woman. She could have been less tired now if she had married me. But she would have had to be worth it. Pity.
Over at SSM’s, JDG and I would tag team feminist women who commented. It was always revolved around women making sammiches for their men. So innocuous, so devastating.
Those were the days…
Being single and with a fine salary, I can just go to Panera for sammiches.
Strikes are ineffective when there are substitutes available.
Sandwiches? Has it gotten down to refusal to make sandwiches now? The men I know in church argued and thrashed out budgets at the Parish Council. They confronted a heretical minister. They pitched into repair a 250 year old building, and built another whole church inthe south of the suburb I grew up in. One retired man finally complained and was replaced – by a man – mowing the church grounds. All of this voluntarily and out of their own pockets on top of their paid full-time work.
2014 was the Year of the Feminist Fail: ‘Ban Bossy’, ‘Gamergate’, ‘Shirtgate’, ‘He for She’ and that French girl that loudly proclaimed some feminist slogan before intending to jump but slipping off the jetty instead demonstrated women’s selfishness and incompetence. Even worse, they demonstrated that the Feminist Revolution isn’t a grass-roots, bottom-up genuine revolution, but rather one concocted by the rich and powerful elites and foisted on the rest of us by means of the media.
Ms Gregoire adds a Christian dimension to the stupidity of female rebellion by now complaining about sandwiches. Forget the terrible burdens of Christian women being raped in the Islamic State: what we need now is for Christian Women to boycott sandwich -making.
Recently I was talking to my pastor about women, and the Ten Commandments I have given my son – ” Do Not marry Her If…” He was dismayed that “She is not a Christian” was not on the list. I told him Christian women can be just as vile as their pagan counterparts, and here’s my proof.
Farm Boy – Those were the days…
Yep! The thought of setting foot in a kitchen for a bit of sammich making always seemed to get them hot under the collar. They really should give it a try. There’s nothing like a good sammich to calm the hamster.
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In my church
so as to please the women
the men make the sandwhiches
and the women
fell the trees for the coffin
the feminist lumberjacks process the wood
and dig the the six foot graves
they also
designed and build the hearse
change its oil and tires
they cut the marble rock for the tombstones
in the feminist quarry
haul it in trucks to the feminist tombstone maker
who cuts and shapes and polishes it
they chisel the names in the tombstone
they mow the grass in the graveyard
and they put up and repair
the fence around it
and they carry the coffin
and gently lower it.
it sucks, and it is unfair
but such is feminism
that da GBFM now has to spread
mayonaise on bread
and put turkey and tomato and lettucsueus
dat i don’t even gets to eats!!!
(now and then when nobdody is looking i eat sums, but don’t tell bnobody lzozolzlozoz!)
Hey GBFM, I just wanted to let you know that it looks to me like rehab for you was a total success!
Congratulozlzolzolz!
Another great post, Dalrock. We go to a very large church, and we’ve both served in different ways during the years we’ve attended (my husband an Usher, me a “Greeter,”) and since having our first son, we’ve both served in the children’s ministry (it’s required actually – if you’re going to use the ministry, you need to be putting something back into it). The men who work in the children’s ministry at our church are amazing!!! They are almost always some of the most dedicated and loyal workers – and the kids love them – they can be more fun & unpredictable (and funny) 🙂 We have a lot of pre-teens/teens that help out too, and the younger kids really love interacting with them during class as well. Volunteering is beautiful.
I’d have to say that I have actually seen some women go a little too far in serving more than they are being “fed.” I’ve known some that only serve each week – and never make it to church itself to hear the sermon. And I’ve seen women leaders who “wanted” to step down and let someone else take over, except they didn’t want to actually let go of the control aspect of their position & so they’ve stayed longer than needed, and refused to pass the baton. But I’d say it’s very rare, and mostly it’s their own psyche making them feel like they HAVE to take on too much, or control everything. Most people that serve are doing so because they either enjoy it, or they realize the great need for more people to volunteer their time, and maybe very few do so in a kind of martyr-like manner.
As for serving at funerals, I can’t believe she feels such anger and resentment for something that really touches the family members (having people show they love and care about them in their time of need). Elspeth’s comments are right on point… and from my own experience, it’s much better to be there for the people, and serving them food is just so nurturing during that time.
Ah yes! But of course. Feminist’s have often lamented –
“We have stripped men of their status, their honor, their authority, and made their lives miserable…. now why do they refuse to do our work for us?”
Your assessment is absolutely correct that feminists will be forever unhappy until they cease battling their true virility and nature as women, to realize the ultimate power within them they must cease living for themselves and start living for their husbands.
You know, curiously the two examples I’m thinking of both the women aren’t submitting to their husbands. One, her husband isn’t even Christian, so he isn’t leading her spiritually… the other, her husband is “pussy-whipped,” – she is the boss, she runs the house & controls everything, and she does whatever she likes.
So that makes sense.
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Dalrock says:
Yes. If the ship is sinking she demands the Full Titanic Experience.
Sandwiches are too much of a sacrifice to ask of women, but men better be ready to sacrifice their very lives. I’m speechless…
‘I told him Christian women can be just as vile as their pagan counterparts, and here’s my proof.’
Everybody has that nasty sin habit. Christian women should know better but they seem to swallow the idea of feminism pretty easily.
Let the women sin. Let them go, let them be the Prodigal Son. They can have it all. I don’t care any more.
Sandwiches can be purchased from Subway, or made by men, or people can wait a bit to eat if there isn’t time or resources. The post-funeral meal is just a nice gesture. If the women are resentful, they should just not attend that or anything. Just leave.
Yes when women really swallow the feminist mantra hook, line, and sinker…a man almost has to get to a point of cutting them off completely lest he get thrown into Gehenna as well.
Gregoire is a special kind of evil. Yesterday she was encouraging her thousands of christian women to make sure they withhold sex or make their husbands sleep on the couch or take the kids and leave if the husbands watches TV with nudity or violence. I don’t know even where to begin…
I am married to an Asian woman. A couple of Thanksgivings ago I was sitting and chatting post meal with one of my brothers in law. This was really my first chance to socialize, as I had prepared the entire meal and served everything down to the dessert. My wife was in the kitchen standing next to the refrigerator talking to one of my sisters. I asked my wife to get me a soda pop from the fridge. When she did there was dead silence. My brother in law said that he could tell me what would have happened to him if he had asked this of his wife; and it would have involved a serious bit of backlash. This is what modern western women have come to. Performing a common curtesy that would be completely normal between friends, is now an oppressive abuse if done for the person you supposedly love. What next? Will asking your wife to pass the salt become an abusive act of the oppressive patriarchy?
@ Brad, think “The Devil Wears Prada” meets “Madhouse” meets “Falling Down”.
@TFH Sheila ‘Woodchuck’ Gregoire is also relieved of this task, and can go back to being Jabba the Hutt all day.
The field marshal requires more tank traps and barb wire on the beach. Not making sammiches kills two “weaknesses” with one stone. Less time being helpful, more time to blog thereby poisoning other women with her crap attitude.
md5,
A few days ago I had lunch with seven of my colleagues – all male, seven of us are retired field-grade military officers and one is a senior NCO nearing retirement. The talk turned inevitably to wives and family…
I heard one guy after another say that they knew who ran their households: and it wasn’t them. I never cease to be amazed that leaders of men… many of us having gone to war in leadership positions, were not at all shy about declaring their subordination to their wives. It just didn’t make any sense to me before, but I think I get it now. That strikes me as something one would be ashamed to admit, but these men are proud to have found women who are so good that they can bow down before them and polish their pedestals. It’s…
… humble-bragging: “A woman who is so good that she deserves my unquestioning obedience and veneration chose to marry me.” (Therefore I must be pretty great myself.)
That’s the only way I can square the circle in my mind.
But that’s a feminine way of thinking. It is women who need to look up to their men, not the other way around. Just as feminism teaches women to think and act like men, these men have swallowed the feminist obverse: that they need to think and act like women.
I just kept my mouth shut, since if I declared the obvious it would be met with good-natured disbelief: the idea that any civilized married man actually wears the pants is foreign to them.
Of the seven, the one I worked most closely with is the senior NCO. He’s starting to get it, but he’s been divorced twice and his current marriage is a shambles. He’s slowly shedding his illusions, but they have cost him dearly over the years. At one point I asked him this question, “If you had to chose: A wife who respects you but does not love you, or a wife who loves you but does not respect you, which would you chose?” He has finally figured out the right answer: respect matters more for husbands (although the opposite is true for wives). A wife who respects her husband will eventually come to love him, but a wife who doesn’t respect her husband will probably stop loving him eventually.
The rest of us – the officers – are all long-term, never-divorced people (AFAIK). That fits the larger demographic trend: UMC/MC college-educated couples tend to stay married for life. Are they happy? They certainly seem to be, and I’m not going to say otherwise… but what are they missing by switching roles with their wives? A lot, I would think.
(That’s not to say that their wives don’t respect them, just that their fawning undermines it. Even with their stated attitudes, they all have the sorts of “masculine merit badges” that women admire, and they can feel safe knowing that their husbands are willing to perform – are are capable of performing – violence in defense of their wives and children.)
Ugh, just perused Sheila’s blog. That woman is evil.
The contrast between men/husbands/fathers/grandpa’s being “bullies” today vs. her “Boundaries in the Family” yesterday is striking. When a woman insists on something all is right in the world, when a man does it is abuse.
What next? Will asking your wife to pass the salt become an abusive act of the oppressive patriarchy?
It already is. I abuse my wife like this all the time (she’s Asian too). The strange thing is there are several other Asians in our area and their husbands abuse their wives like I do mine. What’s stranger still is that those women don’t even know their being abused. They actually think they are normal women with normal husbands* living their everyday lives much like their parents did.
What ever will the feminists do when they learn of all these women respecting their husbands?
*They actually like men as people and tend to think their husbands are good catches.
‘When a woman insists on something all is right in the world, when a man does it is abuse.’
Inside the minds of control freaks…when they make their demands it’s leadership, when somebody asks them to do something it’s oppression.
Women simply won’t accept responsibility for what they have done. They ate from the tree, not men. They divorced their beta husband, not men. They displaced men in the job Market. Men can’t man up even if they want to do so due to lack of breadwinner jobs. Mine did not make these women become single mom’s or to have partner counts over 50. If their solution is for me to be Mr mom then I an done. I opt out.
If a part of the body of Christ is hungry it just means that they aren’t worshipping Personal Jesus properly.
I literally had a friend suggest this back at my relatively conservative Churchian university. He suggested that when you felt closer to God, your physical hunger would feel more satisfied. He backed off when I looked at him like he was mental.
@God is Laughing says:
February 26, 2015 at 10:33 am
“Ugh, just perused Sheila’s blog. That woman is evil.”
Has anyone here tried commenting at her blog? I have. My comment went down the memory hole. And I’m one of the milder regulars here!
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Her post on abuse treads into very dangerous territiory since many teens lie about such things today. I am sure I would have been called an abuser by her followers, even though I was just seeking to keep my children away from the practices of their birth family and on the straight and narrow path.
Teens do lie about such things and automatically believing them is not wise, especially if they have more to the story than it seems.