Brian Dodd (the same blogger I linked to on my last post) explains that wives cheat because their husbands fail to show leadership.
I’m convinced women do not want to cheat. I read many articles about the incredible guilt and grief they experience because of their actions. Satan knew that when he tempted Eve that more than just one life would be destroyed.
Men, sometimes you can do everything right and there will still be women who simply make selfish, bad decisions. However, most of the time if we practice proactive, loving leadership that is not passive, we can address these 6 reasons while protecting our wives and saving our marriages from the widespread and generational damage that results from infidelity.
If you are a worthy enough man, your wife is almost guaranteed not to stray. And of course, the key is leadership. Keep in mind that he isn’t talking about headship. This is the kind of non threatening “leadership” modern Christians love. Most of the “leadership” Dodd urges husbands to practice boils down to not letting their wives lose the tingle. Key to that is leading by telling her she is pretty:
5. Her ego needs a boost. She needs to feel pretty again or get her groove back. Husbands, if you don’t tell your wife that she is pretty, your passivity will open the door for someone else to fill that void.
Dodd offers a specific warning in this area; if a husband loses his job and his wife goes to work, other men will tell her she is pretty instead of her husband. In this case leadership means not telling her she needs to stay at home, but allowing* her to stay at home (emphasis mine):
If you are a husband who has lost his job or you stay home with the kids because your wife earns more money, be very careful. She puts on a suit and goes to work every day where she interacts with high-achieving alpha males. She gets complimented frequently because she looks good and is accomplishing much. Then she may think she comes home to an under-achieving husband who takes her for granted. Many times, this woman can think she deserves better than you and will act on that thought. An office romance ensues. If it comes down to it, husbands go to work. Let her stay home regardless of the financial implications.
*Dodd tells us that he is a huge fan of Fireproof and War Room, and both movies feature wives who are career women.
See Also: Don’t blame Heartiste for the equation of Alpha with virtue.
Uhm, that piece was just really weird.
Men and women alike sin for 3 reasons
1) lust of the flesh
2) lust of the eye
3) pride of life
3, not 6, that’s all there is
Dodd’s argument, such as it is, is to inoculate against the lust of the flesh through an appeal to vanity (pride); which will guarantee an epic failure. Adding pride to lust I s matches and gasoline.
As I’ve oft remarked, imagine if this had the roles switched and the writer said “I’m convinced men do not want to cheat/look at porn.” They then provide ways for wives to satisfy their husbands desires and needs by arguing that “most of the time if we practice proactive, loving intimacy that is not passive, we can address these 6 reasons while protecting our husbands and saving our marriages from the widespread and generational damage that results from infidelity/porn.”
And the “Special Warning” says – If you are a wife who has gained weight or is losing her looks, be very careful. Your husband puts on a power suit and goes to work every day where he interacts with young, cute and willing females. He gets flirted with frequently because he looks good and is accomplishing much. Then he may think he comes home to an overweight wife who takes him for granted. Many times, this man can think he deserves better than you and will act on that thought. An office romance ensues. If it comes down to it, get in shape, use some makeup, wear clothes he likes to see you in, and make use of every opportunity to initiate sex with him.
In fairness, Dalrock, it’s not like he’s a Christian writer/blogger. In that case, I’m certain he’d mention God. I read the article and I didn’t see “God” anywhere in it.
“wives cheat because their husbands fail to show leadership.”
Isn’t “fail to show leadership” another way of saying that husbands lose their attractiveness? What is controversial about betas being unattractive?
Wives cheat because their husbands are unattractive. Or less attractive than Harley McBadBoy, Executive BigBux, etc. Shock!
Women fail to corral themselves. They fail to even realize that they need to corral themselves.
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Take, for example, his article on Why Men Cheat. He lists things men need to do to stop men from cheating:
You see, Dal, men can stop men from cheating, but only men can stop women from cheating.
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From Dodd’s site: “49% [of wives] stated they had cheated on their spouse. Sadly, another 26% said they would if they knew they could get away with it.” Likely “cheating” here means an emotional affair, not necessarily sex. Maybe sexting.
@ Anchorman
I read the article and I didn’t see “God” anywhere in it.
The Song of Solomon also has no mention of God. [wink]
If what he says is true about women, then all husbands have an automatic justification for an annulment in that their spouse is not morally competent to make a vow before God.
Leadership means telling her she is pretty…good, for a girl.
If what he says is true about women, then all husbands have an automatic justification for an annulment in that their spouse is not morally competent to make a vow before God.
At the tail end of my first marriage:
Me: So, what were you thinking when you said “until death do us part?”
Her: Well, I meant it at the time.
Women cheat because they follow their own selfish desires.
@Cane Caldo
It is just that kind of passivity* that proves that Dodd is a better man than you (and me).
*Where the definition of passivity is anything which Dodd doesn’t like or agree with, so long as he is adopting the opinions that his wife demands he adopt.
@ Scott
At the tail end of my first marriage:
Me: So, what were you thinking when you said “until death do us part?”
Her: Well, I meant it at the time.
She was In the Moment ™.
“I’m convinced women do not want to cheat.”
So, why do they do it?
Well statistically, the advice about being a stay at home dad is a good warning. Athol Kay had pretty specific advice for men in that situation and generally recommended against that.
What that stupid ass Dodd is doing is encouraging women to cheat with his statements. If he wasn’t a pussy worshipper and knew just a little about women he would focus on female natural behavior. The best way to slow down cheating women is to call it out and announce her as a cheating slut. He then should have written an article address to men on how to spot a cheating woman and what to do about it,. Up to and including MGTOW in he first place. Through in a story about a guy jacking up his wife and not really not condoning it but also not condemning it either.
What the guy is doing is telling all women just do as the pussy desires because you husband is at fault for any negative consequences. Women will take that as a thank you and about time somebody understood what the pussy goes through. In other words the wicked natural selfish nature is like water and assumes the shape of the container it is in.
@ greyghost
You nailed it, except for omitting that if a woman cheats, it’s a man’s fault. So she has an out from Dodd.
@Iron Man
Yes, it is.
So basically the story of the woman in Proverbs 7 … the husband was away, working, too much, and that is why she cheated. So really it is the husband’s fault, right?
[D: Ha. I have a post on Proverbs 7 set to auto-publish tomorrow morning.]
Like the wife said, “You cheated because you were an asshole. I cheated because I was confused.”
Good one, Poke!
Except she said, “You cheated because you were an asshole. I cheated because I didn’t get enough attention from you.”
We should have a thread just for these. Mine was:
“To get your attention.”
“She thinks she deserves better than you and acts on that thought.”
Pride & list.
“Deserves got nothin to do with it.”
Skanks are going to be skanks. No point in leading them anywhere except to the door to kick their ass outout of your life. Been there done that. Some truths just have to be learned the hard way. Unfortunately I also learned also that frigid women have a habit of staying and making your life hell.
Lol, marriage is a noose around your neck that strangles you just enough to hurt but not enough to kill. No thanks! Almost like a choke chain!
Mine was “to figure out what I need”
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I’m confused. The fact that a woman has the duty (Christian or otherwise) to submit to her beta husband and love him with the idealized love with which he loves her doesn’t mean it’s a good idea for him to expect her to. That ends in misery and divorce.
Of course it’s not fair, but what is? I was born and raised beta, and the change is still painful. But if I revert after I get married, I can’t pretend like I don’t know how it will end. So the responsibility does fall on me, after all.
I once heard a married woman call KFI-AM’s The Jesus Christ Show.
She wanted to leave her husband, because she’d met another man. She said that she had prayed, and truly believed that God wanted her to be with that other man. That God intended her to be with that other man. That the other man was a blessing sent by God.
It’s not that her husband was a drunkard or a wife-beater. He just wasn’t her God-intended soul mate. She felt that she had a right to leave her husband and accept this blessing from God.
The Jesus Christ Show is somewhat Blue Pill, but not entirely: http://www.thejesuschristshow.com/
“Jesus” told the woman there’s no such thing as soul mates. That God gave her the choice of who to marry. She made her choice. Now God wants her to honor her vows.
It was incredible how this “Christian” woman was rationalizing, trying to justify her adultery as a “blessing” sent by God. As though it were God’s desire that she commit adultery.
I’m convinced women do not want to cheat
Hahahaha.. I’ve got more than 40 years of experience saying the exact opposite of this, and how much “leadership” do you think a 14 yo boy is showing? Hmmm? I wanted what they wanted, and was more than happy to get it and give them what they wanted – which was a good hard pounding. Married women were easy – still are the easiest to get into bed if you want them…
So don’t go thinking women are more than they are. And every weekend I get those women that don’t want to cheat coming back stage when we’re done performing – and staying the night while hubby is taking care of the kids. So, you can live in your world of rainbows and unicorns – and I’ll be enjoying your wife and/or daughter in the real world – as long as they are attractive enough to turn me on.
If you’ve been living with the idea that women don’t want to cheat, and you think that you have kids, you should be thinking about a paternity test as you may find that you don’t have any…
@Dalrock
It would be fun to interact with Dodd and his wife in real life. It goes back to your advice to Hank Flanders about his friend, George. When guys like that get married, they become Dodds, and they are baffled by joyful, respectful, and fun marriages where the man doesn’t fear, or even pretend to fear, his wife.
OMG!!! I was gonna say something about this tool and his foolishness but then read THIS:
“The Question:
As I’ve oft remarked, imagine if this had the roles switched and the writer said “I’m convinced men do not want to cheat/look at porn.” They then provide ways for wives to satisfy their husbands desires and needs by arguing that “most of the time if we practice proactive, loving intimacy that is not passive, we can address these 6 reasons while protecting our husbands and saving our marriages from the widespread and generational damage that results from infidelity/porn.”
And the “Special Warning” says – If you are a wife who has gained weight or is losing her looks, be very careful. Your husband puts on a power suit and goes to work every day where he interacts with young, cute and willing females. He gets flirted with frequently because he looks good and is accomplishing much. Then he may think he comes home to an overweight wife who takes him for granted. Many times, this man can think he deserves better than you and will act on that thought. An office romance ensues. If it comes down to it, get in shape, use some makeup, wear clothes he likes to see you in, and make use of every opportunity to initiate sex with him.”
What more need be said? Except it ISN’T SAID!! Not by the church. It reminds me of another comment I read in the androsphere: “For twenty years everyone was telling me what I needed to be doing to keep her. But no one every talked about what she should be doing to keep me”!
Ask yourself, Is she worth having around.
@Just Saying:
I was curious when you were going to make an appearance. Mostly as your life is living proof of the falsehood of the assumptions.
Things going well, otherwise?
This right here is off the charts.
You have got to be kidding me. This is pure madness. But the fix is MGTOW,PUA, sex bots, VR sex, porn, artificial wombs, and surrogacy, The fix doesn’t involve the church because they are in on it. Imagine telling some woman this.
Say husbands get cheated on because they are “unworthy”, sounds a lot like ” Brother Jim is rich and prosperous because God has blessed his faith and rightousness. And you are poor because you don’t have enough faith.”
I’ve seen lots of wives in church that are married to uber-beta, servant-leadership, mutual-submission husbands that suck down the kool-aid like it’s Jonestown every Sunday. Their women are miserable and they are easy to AMOG and dominate. I can think of at least a half-dozen wives that are attracted to me and I’m pretty sure if I took the time to organize the logistics and create the situation, I could put the horns on their husbands. Not so the single/divorced women, if they’re reasonably attractive. That’s because there are attractive men willing to bang them and they can and do get their itch scratched.
In other words, married women are easy because the guy only has to be more masculine/attractive than her husband, while with the single women the guy is competing against all the other attractive men willing to give her attention. This is why so many women in the church date non-Christian men: Christian men are taught to be unattractive.
As for where to assign the blame with respect to this problem in the church, I’d put it about 20% at the feet of the husbands, 20% at the feet of the wives and 60% at the feet of the feminized leadership that teaches men to make themselves unattractive to their wives in the name of love and Christianity. It’s the church that’s creating the toxic soup in which wives are miserable and desire a strong masculine man to dominate them. Combine the neediness of the wives with all the opportunities available to cheat… it’s not a pretty picture.
But, it’s even worse than that. A lot of these miserable wives have wrapped themselves in the ‘love of Jesus’ and give off a holier-than-thou vibe. They are just asking to be shown that they aren’t any different from anyone else.
Unhappy wives aren’t difficult to spot because they unconsciously display their attraction to men they’re attracted to. Anybody who knows a bit of game and has learned to recognize the signs of attraction can see it. Build some comfort, keep the attraction on the back burner and when the opportunity arises, isolate, inebriate, escalate and it happens. Later she’ll say “I don’t know! It just happened!” I know I’m making it sound like it isn’t the woman’s fault, but that’s not what I’m saying at all. Women tend to respond to a man’s advances, but a wife that will cheat on her husband has already mentally at least considered doing it and in all likelihood decided to do it if she isn’t/hasn’t already.
When it happens the women will close ranks (especially within the church) to cover it up. They will cover for each other because it’s kind of like divorce: Everyone knows it’s wrong but they all want the option if that’s what they decide to do.
That’s why it bothers me when I catch serious indications of interest or flirtatious behavior from married women in church. The best indicator is running into them somewhere in a non-church setting. If they flirt I know she’s already predisposed to cheat, if not already cheating on her husband. Sometimes you look them in the eye and there’s an unspoken understanding and her message is ‘make it happen if you want it.’ They’ll never come out and say it because they want plausible deniability, but you’re the man and if you solve the problem you’ll be rewarded. What I don’t see is wives throwing themselves at other men, but they will send subtle or even overt hints of their willingness to get physical.
So, who ya gonna blame? The husband, who listened to his church leaders and became a cringe-worthy supplicating, pedestalizing gamma that unknowingly gave his wife a case of seething contempt? Or the wife that knows she’s to honor her vows and her husband to honor her marriage and keep herself pure, but can’t manage to keep her legs crossed when she catches the scent of Alpha? As I said, I lay the majority of the blame squarely at the doorstep of the church.
OTOH, I’ve often wondered about some wives I know. They were attractive and feminine, but married a Christian beta who turned into a churchian WK gamma. A few years into the marriage the wife suddenly changed and within a year or two blimped and completely let herself go. Was it payback for her husband being so unattractive, or a case of making herself unattractive so she wouldn’t be able to cheat with the men she was attractive to? Or was she so depressed at what her husband turned out to be that she didn’t care anymore? I don’t know, but I can think of several cases where I watched this happen and they eventually divorced. Within a year of the divorce she’d lost all the extra weight, bought a new wardrobe and looked like her “old self” again.
“She puts on a suit and goes to work every day where she interacts with high-achieving alpha males. “
Yay! Guaranteed immunity for the likes of me. Can’t afford your middle-class morality etc.
It’s only going to hit the tiny religious fraction of the yuppies or whatever they’re called now. Because in my case it would be “She puts on a hairnet and and a chainmail glove and stands at the chicken-filleting belt” or something like that.
These “high-achieving alpha males” are a bit of a mystery though. Does he mean Slawek, the new guy that drives the forklift? Solid guy, plenty tattoos. No spika da inglisch much, mind. Suspected recusant catholic, as well.
“I lay the majority of the blame squarely at the doorstep of the church”
If the AMA decided that illness and infirmity could no longer be spoken of, let alone diagnosed or cured, in the hospitals across the land lest they lose their star patients, and determined instead that they be turned into social clubs and political advocacy organizations, then the medical profession would be roughly in the state our churches find themselves today.
27 Ways to Be a Modern Man
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/02/fashion/mens-style/27-ways-to-be-a-modern-man.html
@Artisnal Toad said
“…What I don’t see is wives throwing themselves at other men, but they will send subtle or even overt hints of their willingness to get physical…”
I think those wives should read Matthew 5:27-30: “You have heard that it was said, ‘You are not to commit adultery. But I say to you, anyone who stares at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your body parts than to have your whole body thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away from you. It is better for you to lose one of your body parts than to have your whole body go into hell.”
I think this verse could apply to women also. If they intentionally and consciously flirt and send signals to other men that they want to get with them, they have committed adultery in their hearts.
I would like to note that this is the first time I have ever commented on Dalrock’s articles. I have been reading your website for over 6 months, and I love almost everything you have written. Even most of the comments from people are golden and behave as mini articles themselves.
Agree 100%. In olden times many businesses would not even employ women at all. Then government regulations forced them to. Maybe next he can write an article calling for their repeal. Then he can publicly shame women who work.
The Trouble With Women – 1959 Workplace Social Guidance / Educational FIlm – Val73TV
@Artisnal Toad
Great comment AT. Today I met with the pastor from my non-English church. One thing I commended him on was that the people he has on stage in Sunday services do not display open, deliberate rebellion against God. E.g. long hair or dresses on men, pants on women.
Granted, this may be only the first of many required steps, but showing obedience to God, at least by the leaders and at least for the 2 hours of the service, starts us on the road to accepting that men and women cannot have everything they want. There are standards to be upheld and obeyed.
God is God, and I am not. Our place is in obedience to him, regardless of our feelings.
“For better or for worse, for richer and for poorer, in sickness and in health, as long as ye both shall live”.
-These words, uttered solemnly in front of all that a woman deems sacred and in front of everyone who loves her, seem to go get forgotten as soon as the slightest challenge to them appears.
My question is: what part of these words does a married woman not understand? Mr Dodd’s attempt to rationalise these words away indicates not a man of insight, but rather a man whom feminism has gotten by the testicles.
@AT:
One thing commonly forgotten about Women and Marriages is that they work very, very hard to tear down their husbands. Have to remember the constant Fitness Testing, if they do not have themselves under control. The effect your seeing is the *result* of all of the work they’ve done to make their Husbands as they are. Then they simply respond in the gluttony that was already in their hearts.
While they will lose weight after the divorce, the instant they have a new Man, that weight is coming right back. This is part of the reason Women view “weight loss” as starving themselves until they are thin. That’s what nearly all of them do, since they don’t actually want to change. They just want the Male Attention.
@Dale:
I see you went the foreign route. Hope it goes well. Depending on your area, it’s sometimes the only option to find a Church that actually sort of believes the Bible is God’s revealed Word.
Scott
At the tail end of my first marriage:
Me: So, what were you thinking when you said “until death do us part?”
Her: Well, I meant it at the time.
The cynic in me has been coming to the conclusion for a few years that it is simply a waste of time for women to take oaths, swear vows, etc. because everything they say has an implied “…at this time” appended to it.
The non-cynic still believes that at least some women can be trained, given enough time and energy, to at least try to keep vows and uphold oaths.
@Gargoylevirgin01
If they intentionally and consciously flirt and send signals to other men that they want to get with them, they have committed adultery in their hearts.
That’s just it. A lot of indicators of interest are subconscious and her mind is working on two levels. I don’t know how many arguments we’ve had in these parts over the years about whether women have moral agency (and I’m NOT starting another one) but the fact the question is even asked should tell you something. However, a game-aware guy will be able to spot the interest and if he wants to game her, who knows? Read the link at the bottom of this comment.
@LG
While I agree with what you’re saying, I can give you example after example of the ways the church and it’s minions (marital counselors, male coaches, seminars for men) force-feed the men the kool aid with a beer bong. The worst impacted are the men who most want a good marriage. And these guys, I’m telling you, some of them are so self-righteous in telling men that it’s their fault the wife cheated… it makes me want to scream.
Of course the wife is going to shit test her husband. It isn’t that she doesn’t have herself under control, it’s her hypergamy. Look at Genesis 3:16:
“Your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you.”
The word desire is only used in two other places in Scripture. Once in Genesis 4, God speaking to Cain said sin was crouching at his doorstep desiring to over come him. The other was in the Song of Solomon, the woman saying her husbands desire was for her. In the first instance it was a desire for control. In the second it was a sexual desire. For centuries everybody wanted to say it was one or the other, but what game teaches us is that it’s actually both. It’s the source of the fitness tests (her desire to conquer, forcing him to conquer her or fail the test). If he passes the tests, her desire then becomes sexual. All Women Are Like That. A woman’s hypergamy is part of the curse of Genesis 3:16, and that’s why AWALT.
The problem is the church is teaching husbands to to fail, every single time, which robs his wife of what she really needs- the reassurance she was looking for that produced the shit test in the first place. Dead bedroom, anyone?
These feminist, blue-pill white knight gammas are the worst at pedestalizing women and you just can’t talk to them because they are emotionally unable to hear the truth. So what’s a guy to do about these deluded men that are causing so much harm? I’ve got a few questions I ask about that now.
“Does that means Christ didn’t exercise His Headship and leadership well enough when we sin?”
Of course, we all know the answer.
“OK, what does Christ do that husbands don’t?”
That *always* gets the answer that Christ’s love is perfect and ours isn’t.
“Ahh. I see. So in Revelation 3:19 where it says that Christ rebukes and chastens those whom He loves, and we see that husbands no longer spank their wives, that must be the missing link. Right?”
People sin because they choose to sin, including wives. Sometimes they are led into temptation and if they’re weak, they’ll fall. This is where the husband’s inability to pass her shit tests and give her the masculine dominance she craves comes home to roost.
https://artisanaltoadshall.wordpress.com/2013/11/09/women-be-careful/
@Artisinal Toad,
You comments are very insightful!
In my later teen years, and as a young married woman, my Mum has often warned me about keeping sexual temptation in check. Making sure I’m not alone with other men, particularly those who tend to spark an attraction.
And she’s openly shared about several times she has had “crushes” on other men, and the steps she took to deliberately stay out of their path. She warned me that during ovulation is a particularly tempting time for us women.
My husband is far from “supplicating beta” and there is plenty of attraction between us, but still, when ovulation comes around each month, I REALLY need to watch my thoughts. I’m much more inclined to “notice” other attractive men around, and I have to practice a lot of self-control to keep my thoughts pure.
I hate admitting that, but there it is – women’s biology!
I imagine this is similar to husband’s “noticing” women who wear revealing clothing. The sin is not in the noticing, but in where we allow the thoughts to go.
@AT:
We’re not on different pages. There’s a hot place in Hell for far too many “Christian Leaders”. And I know now a good number of Men that do a lot of work to have “good” marriages. Their biggest mistake is, unfortunately, listening to other Christians on how to do that. There is a massive circuit of that stuff and it does great harm.
That still doesn’t remove culpability of the Women involved. The Fitness Test comes from their Heart, they say the words. They lie to their Husbands then get angry and devalue him for answering honestly. There is blame for the failure all around, but the Sin is the Woman’s alone. And she works really hard to rationalize it. Responsibility still lays with her. Even if Men need to be taught how to deal with it.
@AR:
There are Women that can get it under control. They have a much, much higher probability of ending up with “Saint” before their name.
@GXcX: point taken. We tend to forget women’s ability to rationalise everything away. As Scott (tragically ) was told, “I meant it at the time” – an appalling lie.
@Seriously Serving:”…when ovulation comes around…” – at least you admit it.
@AT: “A few years into the marriage the wife suddenly changed and within a year or two blimped and completely let herself go”. – the outward expression of inner gluttony, toxicity and turmoil. When I first got married I was at a church where many young people got married in rapid succession. This was accompanied by not-insubstantial weight gain by the new wives in due course, matching the weight gains of the older married women in the congregation. It was so common that I asked my wife, “Is it normal for Christian women to get fat as soon as they get married”?
I think that because of the conditions Marriage 2.0 sets, wives know they can selfishly indulge themselves without penalty, thus abusing marriage.
Be careful, oh lustful home-wrecker. There are men like me who do exist in this fucked-up world of ours.
Indeed. Which is why Machete don’t do married.
Sounds like he’s letting women off the hook for cheating by blaming men for not being good enough for her. Total horse shit. Essentially they’re being forgiven in advance for their piss poor decisions.. Adultery.
It’s one thing to tell her she’s pretty, but that’s not leadership. Kindness maybe.
This reeks of blue pill and beta. Any respect I had for Dalrok just went out the window for even posting this. Disgusting.
http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/powerful-photos-released-from-aurora-theater-shooting/28/
MarcusD
Heartiste did an article on that https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/10/01/high-sexual-market-value-chicks-dig-mass-murderers/ Just the way it is
@Spike
Responding to Seriously Serving, “…when ovulation comes around…” – at least you admit it.
Sounds like she does a lot more than just admit it. That was one of the most honest “admissions” I’ve heard in a long time and it sounds like she takes steps to deal with the problem. The issue is so few women are willing to admit it, much less do anything about it.
@SeriouslyServing
A well-formed woman that takes care of herself will look good in a potato sack. Part of it is what we used to call “bearing” when I was in the Marines. A mixture of posture, attitude and expression. A beautiful woman who carries herself well is even more attractive wearing modest clothing than dressed like a slut. Men notice because of biology, not because of revealing clothing. The more a woman projects an air of grace and serenity, the more she will be noticed.
The woman’s body is the product, the clothing is part of the advertising campaign. The modest clothing and quiet spirit advertises one thing, the revealing clothing another. Women wrongly think revealing clothing is what gets men to notice them but this is where they get it completely wrong. The revealing clothing signals availability and attractiveness plus availability will result in attention.
However, for women who aren’t so attractive, the revealing clothing can still generate attention, so women mistakenly think the revealing clothing is what triggered the attraction. No, it was signaling availability. An attractive and modestly dressed woman will get consideration from almost all men, but less attention because entire classes of men recognize that she has standards they don’t want to meet. It’s like women in revealing clothing complaining all men want from them is sex. Isn’t that what they’re advertising?
@Artisinal Toad
“That was one of the most honest “admissions” I’ve heard in a long time and it sounds like she takes steps to deal with the problem. The issue is so few women are willing to admit it, much less do anything about it.”
I think women are loathe to admit it because they hate the idea that they are (or could be) controlled by their own biology, rather than their brains, in who they are attracted to.
I still feel uncomfortable admitting it, but I am thankful that my mother was candid with me in her discussions, and that she didn’t shield me from the truth.
Thank you for your thoughts on women and clothing – much to think about!
I very much like what Artisanal Toad just wrote, and I would like to say that what I am about to write is in some way connected with this thread but it isn’t so perhaps just treat it as a natural break or intermission:
The Hollywood Studio System lasted for about half a century until it began to break down somewhere after 1950. I cannot help but notice that in that time (Hollywood’s Golden Period) so many of the leading men were English: Stan Laurel, Charlie Chaplin and Cary Grant immediately come to mind, but Gary Cooper and Errol Flynn had English parents and were schooled in England and in the case of Flynn cut his theatrical teeth with three years in ‘Rep’ in Northampton – not exactly what one expected of one seriously under-rated actor (absolutely steals the picture from Tyrone Power – who was, of course, Irish – and Ava Gardner in The Sun also Rises – no mean feat that!). In the tier beneath them Ray Milland, George Sanders and Basil Rathbone were also English. Does not this give a certain edge to Hollywood? Those leading men who were 100% American – Gable, Stewart, Tracy, Wayne are really quite different. I cannot immediately think that there were at that time any English leading ladies in Hollywood (other than the occasional import such as Vivienne Leigh).
@paddy:
“So basically the story of the woman in Proverbs 7 … the husband was away, working, too much, and that is why she cheated. So really it is the husband’s fault, right?”
You forgot “I went to ‘church’ this morning.” 😉
Bob Hope was also English – his family leaving for America when he was just five years old – though I find it difficult to detect anything obviously English about his performances. One simply cannot imagine for example that Humphrey Bogart had ever even set foot in the British Isles.
Oh wow!!!!! This is horrible! So many off statements in what this man says it’s hard to respond.
A wife should never make the husband feel like he needs to tell her she’s pretty – good grief, talk about an insecurity complex! I thought men didn’t like women like that – that constantly needed to be reassured that they’re beautiful or pretty. She needs to be comfortable in her own skin first, work on herself maybe if she needs to, and find her security in who she is in God. Inner beauty above any outer superficial beauty. And a MAJOR part of inner beauty is not needing to constantly have your outer beauty reaffirmed for you. It’s blaming the husband for the wife’s insecurity… but she can only find that security in God.
Then… blaming a HUSBAND for the WIFE choosing to cheat on him while working… how much worse can this man’s advice get?!?!? As if women don’t have their own responsibility to be moral!???? I can’t believe I read that.
That, together with telling him he needs to tell her she’s pretty all the time, is just crazy… but then… behold, the best part:
“f it comes down to it, husbands go to work. Let her stay home regardless of the financial implications.”
In other words… Let her sabotage your finances because she can’t be trusted to work outside the home becasue she takes no moral responsibility for her own choices in life. AM I READING THIS? Some wives are needed by their husbands to work outside the home… sometimes it’s what’s best for the family. It is up to the husband to decide whether or not she needs to be a SAHM or a working mom/wife, not up to her hypergamous tingles!!! Lord Have Mercy!!!
So, regarding a friend that got married to her long-term, long-distance, beta boyfriend (looks alpha on the outside, but knowing enough of their inner life, he’s beta). She would tell me throughout the years of them dating that she was attracted very strongly to other men at her work – to the point of even forgetting that she was already in a relationship (they were long-distance), meanwhile her boyfriend was in a different city and she only saw him on the weekends if that. 😦 I constantly told her that this wasn’t good… that she needed to marry someone she was highly attracted to (she complained about his weight, etc.), but she didn’t listen, and after years of dating him, married him.
When you’re dating, it’s a bad sign if you’re tempted to cheat or tend to “forget” that you’re in a relationship because some alpha is working with you. When married, obviously like SS said, you need to be extremely careful not to get close or to outright avoid those men. But when you’re dating, in my opinion, it’s just a bad sign that you might be settling because the woman thinks she can’t do better. But then after marriage, she’ll be sizing up all the other men that look better than the husband she settled for, and if they notice her, there will still be that attraction more than likely. And will it be a greater attraction than what she has for her husband?
SS.. I was going to point that out too, what AT said. That men will notice women even if they are dressed modestly…. If they are beautiful, and really own their beauty in confidence, men will notice and admire it. This isn’t the same as noticing a woman just because she’s dressed immodestly or inappropriately.
“For better or for worse, for rich or for poor, in sickness and in health, till death do we part.”
I think the wedding vows need this added in: “in times, exciting or boring, till death do we part”
Since so many women today will leave a guy if he gets boring and is not giving her that tingle.
Dragonfly @ 9:05 am:
“That men will notice women even if they are dressed modestly… If they are beautiful, and really own their beauty in confidence, men will notice and admire it. This isn’t the same as noticing a woman just because she’s dressed immodestly or inappropriately.”
This is the male Madonna/Whore instinct at work. Provocative dress will get attention from men the same way blood in the water will get attention from a shark. Women go wrong when they think they can switch from feeding the shark to petting the dolphin.
>“I’m convinced women do not want to cheat.”
Well men don’t either. It just….happens.
@Scott: We should have a thread just for these. Mine was: “To get your attention.”
How did that work out? I have a theory on this and strongly believe there IS a time to “cheat” if you can even call it that. If you don’t have your wife’s attention- aka she does not have the “Dread” then nothing you do matters. Sometimes you have to take extreme measures to get that attention or else the only alternative is divorce. God said he “hates” divorce but never said he “hate’s” when a men steps out on his wife. So when choosing between 2 harms choose the lesser harm. Or so goes my theory.
@Art Todd: “Christian men are taught to be unattractive.”
This should be the headline of the post, not buried in the minutiae. This is the central problem. Dalrock and others (like me) advocate using game to teach Christian men how to be more attractive. There are lots of criticism of this approach but I have not heard of an alternative even within the insane but rather detailed meanderings of the late great GBFM.
@AT: “What I don’t see is wives throwing themselves at other men, but they will send subtle or even overt hints of their willingness to get physical.”
INOW- GAME.
Take note game deniers. This is level 1 Game stuff. For Game level 10 try Daniel Rose “The Sex God Method.
>If they intentionally and consciously flirt and send signals to other men that they want to get with them, they have committed adultery in their hearts.
Hah! Good luck with that. 95% unconscious IOI’s are not the same as staring down a hottie and undressing her with your eyes. Anyway, I always thought that little example is misplaced and gravely overused. Jesus was pulling a Rush Limbaugh and illustrating absurdity by being absurd. In the previous sentence he suggested cutting off your hand and plucking out your eyes. He was explaining that attaining Heaven is impossible without God by giving examples of man’s inherently sinful nature. He wasn’t imposing those impossible requirements on us as the Churchians would have you believe.
@AT, SS & Dragonfly:
A gentle Woman in a nice, white sundress with a hat will shine like a supernova if she knows what she’s doing. Everyone wears their attitude in their walk and stance (unless they’ve learned to do otherwise), so it shines right through.
@Gunner Q:
That’s a really good analogy.
And this might be a complaint for Men that don’t have glasses, but I’m over 6 feet tall with working eyes. From my angle, looking at a Woman’s face, her face is “smaller” than her cleavage in most modern Women’s clothes. I quite literally remember some Women by their cleavage more than their faces because that’s what their clothing highlights and it’s what you most remember.
@AT: we see that husbands no longer spank their wives, that must be the missing link. Right?”
Meant facetiously but there is more than a grain of truth ensconced in that fistula. It is very possible your grandmother’s and likely your Great Grandmother’s were spanked by their husbands. Advertisements in the 1950’s showed husbands spanking their wives for buying the wrong kind of coffee. Also during this span of time which includes almost all of human history before the 1960’s: Women were feminine, the infidelity rate was minuscule, divorce was unknown, and there was no such thing as Dead Bedrooms.
My wife left me with the line, “I just need to do what’s right for me.”
Sounds very similar to her spiritual brother, Alister Crowley, who said, “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.”
The linked article is wrong. There is no safety in your wife being a SAHM. I learned that the hard way. It’s even worse, because not only will they get more child support, they will be spending your money on stuff for “us” during the (limited) term of the marriage.
Have her spend her own money. Work her like a mule. She is doing it to you. Offer to stay home yourself if there are kids. She will grow to disrespect you, but guess what? 90% of the time, that’s going to happen anyway. Heck, if she gets high enough in the company, she can only have hypergamy for the C level, who don’t want her… perfect insulation against infidelity!
@BluePillProfessor
Meant facetiously
No, sir, I was entirely serious in that remark. Husbands are commanded to love their wives as Christ loves the Church. Revelation 3:19 is one of the most clear examples of what Christ does as a demonstration of His love for those He loves. Elsewhere in Scripture it says the father that refuses to discipline his son hates his son. But, and this is key, women only want to be manhandled by a man they’re attracted to.
I would say my marriage started dying the day I stopped spanking my wife. I’d still smack her on the butt occasionally, but that was playful.
Want proof? Look at the popularity of FSoG, which was spread word of mouth, woman to woman. Just knowing that if they went far enough over the line there would be consequences would be a tremendous help to them. I firmly believe most women are miserable because they no longer have the security of knowing there are boundaries.
Men have to be the at the “top” at all times in relationships. Top decision maker, the top priority for women(& yes that means wife puts husband before children), and the top provider(preferably the only provider). If not? Kiss the relationship good bye! Female Hypergamy doesn’t care!
I firmly believe most women are miserable because they no longer have the security of knowing there are boundaries.
I share this belief.
Dodd’s article begins with these words:
Unfortunately, this is not an original thought. I have heard others parrot this same faulty line of reasoning, and they never seemed to get called on it. The next time I hear it, I’m going to counter with: “So what you are really saying is that Adam sinned first?”
And I imagine a conversation such as the following would ensue…
What do you mean?
Your implication is that Adam failed his wife by not “covering her” properly. So, he sinned first by neglecting his God-given responsibility.
Well, I didn’t say that. Eve may have sinned first, but it never would have happened if Adam hadn’t failed.
So, to my point, Adam sinned first – he failed his wife and he failed God. He obviously should have been engaged in 24/7 vigilance. How dare he leave her alone, even for 20 minutes. Isn’t that what you’re suggesting? Because that’s all the time it would take – not hours or days of being worn down. 20 minutes to go from pure to corrupted. Heck, it could happen in 3 minutes. Satan can be a pretty persuasive guy.
The husband is the head. That means he’s responsible.
Then why is 1 Tim 2:14 in the Bible?
The point isn’t who sinned first – it’s that the woman is weaker and needs to be covered by her husband. Doesn’t it say that somewhere? How dare you start up with that ‘it’s all the woman’s fault’ stuff – I’ve heard that my whole life.”
Your whole life? Besides this conversation, can you name the last time someone has talked about it – never mind taught it from the pulpit?
Well, I can’t remember the last time I heard it in church – but that doesn’t matter. Men want to browbeat women with stuff like this. They DO browbeat women with stuff like this.
Yeah, the only men that would dare discuss it are obviously of inferior character and spiritual maturity – men like Paul and Timothy.
Look, why are we having this conversation
Because you inferred that Adam sinned first by not being there to keep his wife from sinning.
Yes, and I stand by that statement. The man is the leader. If those under his care drift into sin, look at the leader.
Oh, you mean like Judas and his Leader?
OH! Don’t be so argumentative. I’m talking about marriage – not discipleship. That’s different!
Ah. I see. Completely different. What say we look at what 1 Tim 2:14 actually says.
Fine. Be my guest.
OK. Here’s what it says: “And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.” That seems pretty clear to me. The woman’s deception is what caused her to fall into transgression – not her husband being MIA.
Oh, so now you’re saying ADAM didn’t sin?
I didn’t say that. He clearly did sin. But the nature of his sin was different. He was more interested in pleasing his wife than in pleasing God.
OMG! Now you’re saying it is wrong for him to love his wife?
No, I didn’t say that either. I said he was more interested in pleasing his wife than in pleasing God. In this instance, going along meant sinning against God. Why do you think God specifically forbade the men in the Old Testament from marrying foreign wives? Isn’t there something in a man that makes him especially susceptible to being led astray by the woman with whom he has sex? That he might value preservation of that so highly that he is willing to sacrifice things he should not? Isn’t that precisely what Adam did by listening to his wife?
I don’t know where you get this crap. It is absolute bunk.
Really? Why don’t we read Genesis 3:17 and see where this “bunk” comes from. “Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’;..” Adam sinned because he listened to his wife’s voice and did something he knew to be wrong. We can argue about why Adam listened – what he hoped to gain – but the point here is that God made a point of explicitly saying “because you listened to the voice of your wife”. He could have just as easily omitted that part and gone straight to “Because you have…eaten from the tree about which I commanded you…”. Isn’t that the real issue? That he ate from the tree? Why was the “voice of your wife” stuff in there?
This is unreal. Now you’re twisting this to mean a man should never listen to his wife!
No, that is not what I said. I said that men are prone to compromise on truth when they think it will have repercussions in bed. Please answer my question: why do you think God added that preface in His remarks to Adam?
I don’t know, Mr. Smug. Why don’t YOU tell me?
Because he knew what was in Adam’s heart. Adam was thinking with his you-know-what. God knew that, and wanted to make an example of it for generations to come, including ours. God also knew what Eve was thinking. Her desire to “rule from behind” was at the root of her decision. She thought God was ripping her off – depriving her of things to which she was entitled. God never spoke directly to her, because the command not to eat of the tree was issued to Adam – and it seems to have been issued before Eve was created. So Eve heard the command through God’s hierarchy: from her husband. She was rebelling against her husband AND rebelling against God, all in the same stroke. Just like God knew what was in Adam’s heart, He knew what was in Eve’s heart: the desire to usurp authority because of fear she would be deprived of something she wanted. His consequences could have simply been to state she would have pain in childbearing, but He was making a point about what was in her heart when He said this: “…Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you.” (Gen 3:16). God knew that what was in Eve’s heart would now be the propensity for every woman. This is why He had special words for her – just as He had special words for Adam and the nature of his sin and future propensity towards compromising the truth for the sake of the sheets.
————–
Yes, the above is a figment. But one can always hope.
mrteebs,
Since the Scripture says that she gave the fruit to Adam, “who was there with her,” I see it as indicating he was there and kept silent. She had clear sin, but I see no reason he should not have spoken up if he was really there with her as it says.
You can only give a piece of fruit to someone who is right there, not someplace else.
Brad,
I assumed she went and found her husband and gave the fruit to him. But if he was mutely present throughout the entire encounter with the serpent, it doesn’t really change the essence of the argument. Either his sin was in the eating, or it was in not stopping her from eating. But God’s chastisement seems to focus on the former and completely ignore the latter. If he sinned in both ways, one would think he would be punished not just for eating, but also for failing to stop his wife’s own consumption. Yet God never hints at this.
Your take on this?
Me: So, what were you thinking when you said “until death do us part?”
Her: Well, I meant it at the time.
And people wonder why I’m a lifelong bachelor. It’s kind of hard to trust women in general when they show over and over that they’re utterly shameless and have no sense of honor.
There are of course individual exceptions. I’m not talking about you or your wife. Culture matters.
#shoutyourabortion
Says it all concerning American women.
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