As complementarian women continue to push the feminist envelope, complementarian men are forced to ramp up their non-threatening imitation masculinity. Ladies, if you want your Christian feminist rebellion to come with a stamp of (sort of) tradition, you are going to have to snuggle up with this:
Pursuing Your Wife: Embracing a War-like Posture
Because dating and pursuing one’s wife is such an incredibly important issue, we are going to begin a multi-part series here at Manual encouraging you, urging you, and coming-off-the-top-rope-with-a-biblical-manhood-elbow-drop into you to challenge you to raise the bar in how you date and pursue your wife.
There is no close second, bro.
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Never be perfect or an open book.
Just allow room for mystery and spontaneous play.
lolling hard at this. the jokes write themselves.
I guess I’m confused. Why do men need to pursue that which is already caught? What am an exhausting thing it would be to be married to a woman who expects that!
…why do we have so many dudes in our churches that are failing in this endeavor?
Perhaps because they think of themselves as “dudes” or “guys” rather than as “men”?
Who taught men to denegrate themselves into “dudes”, I wonder?
The rest of the article is completely predictable, I’m sorry to say, concluding with the usual exhortation to choreplay. Some “War-like posture”…
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Go screw yourself, bro!
Seems their litmus test of a man is one who grovels and constantly pursues his wife, the woman who agreed to marry him, to find her inner Godly vag. Or some such. I leave them to discover their fate.
Cuz vag. Or cuz LSD Gamer says so based on arbitrary reading into of Song of Solomon . Or because she will divorce and take the kids. Or any number of reasons rather than taking into account a wife’s duty to submit to her husband and to honour and respect him.
In other words, it is all to skirt the issue of the duties of the wife; and return responsibility but not authority to the husband. He just needs to……… [fill in the blank]
It’s a joke on the husband and only those men who marry have to play it. Enjoy!
Maybe I’m just confused a bit, being a bachelor, but it makes no sense to “date and pursue” your wife when she’s your wife. You date and pursue when you’re both single.
It’s almost like they’re trying to say, “Remember when she said ‘Til death do you part?’ Yeah, well, you missed the fine print at the bottom of the marriage license that says the vow doesn’t apply if she’s not happy, and criteria for that are many and vaguely defined. Do what you want, but our advice is act like she didn’t mean what she said.”
As I’ve done before, let’s flipped the script around see how it would come off.
“Because submitting to and obeying one’s husband in everything is such an incredibly important issue, we are going to begin a multi-part series here at Manual encouraging you, urging you, and coming-off-the-top-rope-with-a-biblical-womanhood-sammich-making approach to challenge you to raise the bar in how you submit to and obey your husband.
There is no close second, honey.”
From the article:
“Don’t be the guy who comes out of the shower buck naked with a cape trying to pull off the Captain Morgan pose and think that’s going to work.
“Believe me, it doesn’t.”
P.J. O’Rourke said it best: I almost don’t have the heart to make fun of these people. It’s like hunting dairy cows with a high-powered rifle and scope.
That script sounds really Biblical actually, The Question…
It’s how it is meant to be.
Time for some captn Morgan posing practice, me thinks!
Self-delusion around the problem. Once you build up that a “good Woman would never do THAT” as a social course, everything flows logically. She obviously isn’t doing X because you’re not “Man enough” for it. Or something.
It also feeds into a “Mr. Fix-it” personality that most quiet Christian Men will generally be. The ones that willingly show up to church will be especially vulnerable to this tactic.
@ feministhater
I know, that’s the scary part. It shows how upside-down the situation is. Men are being told to chasing after their wives like they’re still single is normal, but my revised script would cause a riot among middle class WASPs everywhere.
In general, most people aren’t blindingly stupid about their progression from A to B. No one will take you serious if you make too many mistakes in moving between your initial statement and its conclusion.
However, that makes no assumption that A is reality. That’s the rub and that’s where all of the action is at. When the assumptions are all wrong, all of the proper logic will just twist you in knots. What you’re seeing in the link requires very exotic mathematical concepts to decipher, as a result.
You know, I’ve always wondered about the “dating your wife” thing. There are t-shirts out there, I have friends who have one, that say something like “I still date my husband.” Women who says this, do they mean date as in trying to win the affections of or date as in let’s spend some time together like we did when we were single and dating. Where does the expectation of constant pursuit in order to win affections come from in terms of a husband still pursing his wife?
@ gah
The Blue Pill is that marriage means that a woman is “caught”. lol The Song of Solomon teaches men that women need to be gamed.
Husbands are to imitate Christ.
“Washing of water with the word”
Baptize the wife in a tank, bathtub, or river, lol? Naaah, water means “semen”. His fountain. “Water” is standard figurative language for “semen.” It’s connected with baptism, surely, because of the word “water”. Christ baptizes us with water and husbands “baptize” their wives with their fountains.
“The word” means verbal game and expressions of love by the man.
Conclusion: The husband’s responsibility is sex + verbal declarations of love. The husband must create sexual tension which the wife wants to resolve through sex. It turns sex into a relief from the grind instead of sex being a chore. Flirting, cutting distance, teasing, playing, rough-housing, breaking rapport, rinse & repeat. The husband should set expectations well in advance and let the wife’s expectations create sexual tension as time passes.
Gamer maxim: Flirt early, flirt often.
Sexual tension in the Song of Solomon:
May he kiss me with the kisses of his mouth!
For your love is better than wine (SoS 1:1)
The woman is thinking about kissing the man and imagining it and feeling desire. Sexual tension.
Perfume
Girls (maidens) communicate the desirability of husbands with the wives via the girls’ perfume (“oils” having “a pleasing fragrance”) and the husbands’ nonverbal signals.
Your oils have a pleasing fragrance,
Your name is like purified oil;
Therefore the maidens love you (SoS 1:2)
Mrs. Gamer sometimes cries when she smells perfume on me. She gets to be an actress in her own, personal soap opera fueled by her imagination, lol. Girls all need drama, even if they say that they don’t like it.
Since Rollo has not yet graced the thread, there are two things that must be pointed out:
First, this entire screed is all about negotiation of desire, the idea that a woman’s sexual desire for her husband can be negotiated via some sort of quid pro quo. “I did the dishes, now I get..”. The premise buried underneath is the same, old, tired 2nd stage Feminist fallacy that “men and women are exactly the same except women can have babies”.
Second: this article contains nothing new. Not one suggestion or prescription is novel or new, it’s a rehash of the same, tired stuff that “relationship experts” both secular and religious have been putting out for years, decades even. I’m sure one could trawl through various Christian sites and find pretty much the same article written 2 years ago, 5 years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago…
The popular definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. By that definition, this article is insane, and the author is also.
Men are not helped by pap like this. Neither are women. Until the conservative feminists give up their 2nd stage feminism, marriages will continue to crumble.
So what is more important to conservative feminists, “complementarians” and the like: actually fixing marriages or continuing to virtue-signal via empty articles like this? What’s their real intention and objective?
Good God! Look at those gaunt, haunted faces pasted on those so called “men of God.” These guys get their overweight, Churchian wives to screw them about once a month and THEY are going to tell US what works? I could LMFAO if so many men were not fooled and horribly abused by these sheep clad wolves.
Oh, yeah, one more thing: I note that the CBMW doesn’t allow comments on its site.
Gee, I wonder why that is?
Dating and pursuing your wife seems so weird. I often thought date night with your wife seems contrived. A date is an agreement to go out. You don’t expect to be turned down. Maybe he fears being dumped. Such things make a marriage worse and are usually a red flag that your marriage is in trouble.
Heavens to Murgatroyd ! What an endless cavalcade of comedy these halfwits present. Like the Borscht Belt in the 30’s or something. Is it truly possible that they are playing this game straight all the way down the line?
Anyway what these guys really need can be summed up from the wisdom of old Doc. Glover when he warns us man to never make a woman the center of his life. Instead, he says go build a great life and invite a woman to be part of it. If she joins you great, if not you still have a great life,. But that pearl of wisdom took 30 seconds and is free so by all means Warriors of Christ go to a an all weekend symposium and buy the book and CD set that tells you that women get really hot when you become her chambermaid. That’s why romance novels all feature women in the embrace of chambermaids and not with men who like Clay Matthews after a hot shower. Or even flipping Captain Morgan at half mast. You really have to work hard to unlearn so much about inter sexual dynamics as these fearless churchians have done.
On a lighter note since good old PJ O’ Rourke was mentioned earlier, let me leave you with my favorite PJ witticism of all time. ” I laughed when she called me a Nazi, cause you know what, say what you want about the Nazi’s, no woman ever had a fantasy about being tied up and beaten by a liberal”.
Or a churchian.
I read that and just about vomited. They have no clue about the real world of intersexual Dynamics. Groveling and chasing a woman will only make her run away as fast as she can covering her breasts and crotch in utter disgust at the thought of ever having sex with such a man.
BPP, you mean these faces?
http://cbmw.org/2016-preconference
Sheep clad wolves……baaaaaaaaaad asses they are
@ Anonymous Reader
CBMW folk don’t allow comments face to face or via pastoral email. Why would they allow them on their site?
>>There is no other relationship, in any other environment in this world, which so closely reflects Christ and the Church.
While it is true that Christ never screwed the church either, I have to think there is some hidden meaning in this statement.
Let me check the Book of Oprah:
>>we need to begin to act like our marriages are the number one aims of our lives.
So…put your wife FIRST. Put yourself LAST? That is just what Christ said, right? Love your wife and neighbor MORE than you love yourself. Wait, that isn’t what he said? You must be using the wrong Bible.
This instruction is right there, Chapter 2 in the Book of Oprah.
—‘Thou shalt worship thy wife as a graven image and subdue yourself as a humble servant in her eyes’ (Oprah 2: 1)
>>The wrong thing to do here, I think, is to function as a pastor (or mentor) to your wife.
—‘Thou shalt wash thy wife in the Word of God by listening to everything she says and by avoiding leadership at all costs. Further, all other precepts in Scripture that contradict or dilutes feminine power are null. Any exegesis of otherwise Holy Scripture that does not empower wives over their husbands is from the evil one.’ (Oprah: 6:4, 5 and 6)
>>>>Before all else, focus on your relationship with Jesus, not your wife’s relationship with Jesus. Focus on your prayer life. Focus on your heart.
—How dare you! How dare you upset your wife by interfering with her relationship with Christ. Verily I say, you should hate yourself and love your wife. Your wife has her own relationship with Jesus that is far superior to yours and she does not and should not listen to you. Did you knave and arrogant fools forget that your wife is a WOMAN? She is spiritually pure and closer to God than you can ever be! Wherefore thou shalt not be a Shitlord and command your wife but you shall love her with all of your heart and obey her words and anticipate her moods, all of which is your responsibility. Thou shalt look to the weaker vessel- who is “weaker” only because she is closer to God and filled almost to the breaking point with the Holy Spirit. Thou shalt permit this weaker vessel to fill you with the word and know that if your wife is unhappy this is entirely your fault and the solution is to pray, obey the word of your wife, and seek her forgiveness with flowers, housework, and other appropriate supplication so that you know your place and are subdued in the eyes of God and Goddess alike (Oprah 9: 2).
>>When it is real and genuine, and not out of obligation or duty, then your wife will follow suit.
Do you know not that you are in error? If your wife is unpleasant, mean, or cruel this is YOUR fault. If you would love her with the complete sacrificial love that Christ loved the church your wife will WANT to follow you. If she is rebellious and cruel that shows you are not loving her like Christ and you are in error. Repent of your many sins O’ man and beg the forgiveness of the superior being who shall be magnified in grace and glory by the golden uterus (Oprah, 4: 5 and 7).
>>>We MUST have face-to-face time with our wives. We have to connect with them emotionally. We have to be able to open up to them, have them open up to us, and then try our best to not “fix” them.
Thou shalt reveal thy innermost feelings, fears, and pain to thy loving wife and she will love you as a mother loves a child, folding you safe and warm in her strong arms of comfort. If thou should feel unnatural sexual urges at any time when your wife is comforting you then thou are in error and your sin has been revealed. You must practice self control and not pressure your superiors for satisfaction. For the woman’s body and soul belongs to her while the man’s body belongs to the woman and his soul belongs to Caesar. If your wife should not show her love to you when you reveal your fears and doubts, and should she fail to comfort you as a mother would comfort a child, then your sin of not loving your wife as much as Christ loved the church has been revealed and you must go to Christ and repent of thine sins, tearfully and on your knees before thine holy wife (Oprah, 8: 1-4).
>>>Don’t be the guy who comes out of the shower buck naked with a cape trying to pull off the Captain Morgan pose and think that’s going to work.
>>>Believe me, it doesn’t.
>>Again, it starts with Jesus. It’s all about him. Sex is a gift from God,
Your God shall be your wife and she shall rule over you. If you make any crude gestures that might offend the sensibilities of your Goddess then you are in sin and must ask Christ through your Goddess for forgiveness. If you seek consummation of the marital vows, you must approach a wife quietly and with full humility, providing informed consent for each and every advance and withdrawing if you sense she might be uncomfortable as befitting one who loves another like Christ loved the church (Oprah 4:3).
>>> you have to pursue your wife practically. First of all, you have to go on dates….
I say to you that you shall date your wife and buy her things not once or twice but ten or a thousand times! Thou shalt buy flowers, and presents, and expensive dinners. If thou shoulds’t annoy thine Goddess in any matter, then thou shalt pay in flowers, presents and expensive dinners a hundred fold, nay a thousand until thou shall feel humiliated and subjugated. Verily I say to you, the key to attracting your wife is to love her like Christ loved the Church. Christ feeds the church and takes care of her and expects nothing from the church and so shall you feed and clothe and love and expect nothing from thine Goddess (Oprah, 11: 3).
>>>When was the last time you [insert chorplay here]…
Besides pleading and supplicating and supporting her and buying her things and taking her on dates and loving her like Christ loved the church thou shalt do more than your share of the housework. Science has proven that women just need a little more help around the house in order to “get in the mood” and you who do not do most of the housework are merely little boys in men’s bodies who shave. Such men will be punished most severely and shall verily not be gifted with the moist and most divine and august vagina (Oprah 12: 45).
So it is written, so it shall be.
Amen.
@getalonghome
A couple may be married but commitment and attraction are not static. You do not make commitment once and forever, nor are you forever attracted to your partner. Be aware that commitment must be made every day, and be aware that just because your spouse was once attracted to you, that attraction will change positively or negatively depending upon your relative sexual market values.
Men will always be attracted to women based almost exclusively on their physical attributes, and if women allow themselves to become unattractive, they do so at their peril. Women will always be attracted to men based upon status, looks, income and how other women perceive their man, and if men allow themselves to become complacent in any of these areas, they too do so at their peril. It takes work on the part of each partner in any relationship, and it is exhausting. But if you fail to do the necessary work do not be surprised the morning when your spouse tells you that they love you, but they are not in love with you. By the time you hear these words, you have lost a relationship that is most likely unsalvageable. Do the work or pay the price.
If God forbid the man actually pursued her with some real self-confident and virility, not the garbage they call pursuit, they would shame him for not advancing to the “next stage of love.”
@ASDGamer; While there are lots of places in the Song of Songs that practically describe washing the wife with semen (“I kneel in his shadow and his fruit was sweet to my taste”) I am certain that when Paul said “Wash your wives in the word” he did NOT mean cum on their face.
While your interpretation is certainly good advice, I am confident that is not what Paul was talking about.
So, bpp, do you routinely dunk your wife in the bathtub as a religious act? “I baptize thee in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Amen.” heh
@BPP:
I’m glad I wasn’t drinking anything. Both comments were hilarious.
But I also realize how far outside of the “Mainstream” we are. We’ve got a long road ahead of us.
Curious; did Toad get banned, or is he just taking a break?
[D: I haven’t banned him.]
That sounds like a lot of work, especially given that it’s designed to fail. You want to succeed in your marriage? Make your wife pursue you. Be mysterious. Be firm. When she’s having a moment of womanly emotionality, let her. She’s a child. Children don’t understand their parents, and a woman should never understand her man. Let her worry about whether or not dinner was good enough. “But that’s awful! Can’t you just be nice?!?” You know what happens when a Man is nice and removes all worry from his woman’s life?
Divorce.
Your woman needs a roller-coaster of emotion just to feel like she’s still alive. Give it to her. Tangible things? They mean nothing. Your woman has no ability to think logically about her own future; she only knows how she FEELS, right now. So let her feel. She’s not a Man. She can’t do it.
@ bpp
You need to do better than just saying, “Unh, unh.”
Jesus flirted. Lots of references to water and the context is obviously very sexual. Lots of sexual language using water: well, fountain, draw, thirsty, water, springing, drank. See https://theasdgamer.wordpress.com/2014/09/26/jesus-flirted/
We can look in Proverbs and see water connected with sex: Should your springs be dispersed abroad,
Streams of water in the streets?…Let your fountain be blessed, And rejoice in the wife of your youth. (5:16,18)
If I’d followed the advice I this article I’d have been severed, stripped and abandoned by the roadside years ago. Yeeg.
I note the title doesn’t match the text, or as we comedian types say, the carpet doesn’t match the drapes. What is the “warlike posture?” Posing with a Weatherby?
Someone up above is dissing @asdgamer (whose married game advice I admire) as “LSD Gamer”, which is unfair to him but is a sobriquet I find rather funny. I think I’ll steal it for my next handle if I’m ever outed.
THANK YOU, asd.
Marriage without gaming your wife is hell. Gaming a woman NEVER stops. It is the ultimate bluepill to think that once a goal is achieved it will stay that way.
It’s like saying “Hey, I was baptized! I never have to worry about sinning again!”
Ew.
Look at those gaunt, haunted faces pasted on those so called “men of God.”
The Look.
Really?! Are you serious? The Bible seems to be one big sex show to you.
Water now means semen? How do you take yourself seriously? Everything you read has some sort of sexual meaning, even when it simply means a husband is to wash his wife in the word of the Lord, not his semen…. what the heck?
Everything you espouse on in the Song of Solomon is easily explained via infatuation, yet you take a moment in Solomon’s life, new love and all, and expound that he is somehow expected to keep that sort of passion throughout the marriage.
You read far too much of your own meaning into the words of the Bible. Your whole screed is nothing but hollow devotion to the pussy.
Why is it unfair to him? His meanderings through scripture are quite hallucinatory.
OFF TOPIC:
Dalrock a request. You mention how the men should be the leaders and not women. I’d like your thoughts then on Deborah (Judges 4 and 5) and Joan of Arc (although with you not being Catholic, you could just dismiss that one). I could mention Elzabeth the 1 of England, or Catherine the Great of Russia, but those were inherited roles, not ones that seemed to be from the Devine- I won’t be looking in the comments for a response, and would appreciate a blog posting on it.
For the record, I think of these 2 (Deborah and Joan) as exceptions, not as the general rule.
/OFF TOPIC:
ACThinker,
I don’t think I’ll do a post on it. As you mention I’m not Catholic so I don’t have any thoughts on Joan of Arc. Deborah was a prophetess, and Paul doesn’t prohibit women prophesying. She wasn’t a priest, and she wasn’t a warrior. She didn’t lead the men into battle; she accompanied Barak at his insistence. She also chastised him for his insistence that she do so. God denied Barak the glory of the battle because he insisted that a woman go with him as he lead the army.
@ATCthinker
A woman being in charge is unnatural. “Youths oppress my people, women rule over them. My people, your guides lead you astray; they turn you from the path.”Isaiah 3:12.
When men become weak (especially morally) and the nation is evil, God will set up a woman as the head. All kingdoms are in God’s hands (Romans 13:1)”The authorities that exist have been established by God.”
As for Deborah, It says in the begining of Chapter 4 “Again the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the Lord” . She goes to Barak and tells him to go fight as God will give him the victory. What was his answer? I will go if you (Deborah) go with me and how does she respond? The honor will go to a woman.
Not only do you have morally weak men in Israel so that they did evil in the eyes of the Lord, you have a weak pussy of a man Barak who cant go on his own.
When God puts a woman as head, God is showing the nation and the other nations that he is allowing that nation to be in shame.
Case in point, South Korea
South Korea had a huge Christian revival in about 1904. They send out the most Christian missionaries to the world only behind USA. They now have a woman as their head.
Have you seen Korean media? K pop and movies? It rivals the backwards filth of Hollywood. Gender reversals, effeminate K-Pop men that women got crazy over, more and more homosexuality in their media, ect… They have truly fallen from the huge Christian revival that the country experienced when they decided to come out of their Hermit Kingdom mentality and let other cultures in (in this case, Christianity).
The Queens of england, do you know how evil the Brits are? They are seeped in freemasonry (satanic/satan worship). Dont you think that God could have given the Kings a son? Our past presidents, all have only daughters. Their seed (name) dies with them.
“I’m such a masculine Christian man that I can turn my wife off with my supplication with one hand tied behind my back! I can submit to her in two seconds flat! How about you, tough guy? Do you have what it takes to be a real Christian man? Why don’t you step into the ring and see who is more badass at not being a badass?”
@RPPaul:
Korea is mostly still the traditional Korean religion. We’re only up to about 25% “Christians” there at this point. It was 5% in 1962 ( http://aatfweb.org/2014/10/31/development-of-protestantism-in-south-korea-positive-and-negative-elements/ ). Don’t over-stretch Christian influence just yet. It’s growing rapidly, but 2050 would be the earliest to expect it to reach 50%. (Which would be a wonderful thing to see.)
@ACThinker:
Deborah was a prophetess; Barak was judge. The Lord gave the glory to a housewife because Barak was weak-willed. It’s never a hard point to understand if one actually reads the Books. 🙂 (There’s a fascinating context to much of these discussions since just reading the Books tends to address most of the issue.)
On Joan d’Arc, there’s a few French jokes I could make, but the Lord uses whom he chooses. But sometimes just to mock the people on the receiving end. Gideon being a good example. Or the time the Lord used a donkey, I always enjoy that one.
Who’s Mommie’s strwong widdle hewo?
If i remember correctly, a lot of the revival happened in northern Korea. My family (grandfather)was from the north and went down south durring the war.
Makes me think a lot of Christians died or left behind durring the war. 5% is low.
I was just reading a passage from Plutarch where in Pompey, Pompey fights his way eastwards and after yet another successful battle his troops notice among the dead, uniforms and weapons belonging to Amazons. On closer inspection however none of the dead are female.
Catherine the Great, Christina and Gloriana are of course very interesting and not unsuccessful but to concentrate on Elizabeth, if she married (say the King of France) England would end up as a province of France yet if she remained single there might be civil war between contending Englishmen. As you know she opted for the old enemy (Scotland) – and look how badly that turned out. All Queens and female Presidents (and Justin Trudeau who is an honorary woman) inherit from their Father.
Joan of Arc was insane but Shakespeare gives her some good speeches in Henry VI Part 1 and then you can also read Shaw. In those days everyone was Roman Catholic and so with respect to Dalrock even Protestants can have a view – one does not have to be sane to be canonised. I am neither French nor of course in any way biased.
@ Fred Flange serial name changer
Someone up above is dissing @asdgamer (whose married game advice I admire) as “LSD Gamer”, which is unfair to him but is a sobriquet I find rather funny.
I think it’s hilarious. Sometimes men crush on me. Really, I’m not all that awesome. Garsh!
(And thanks for the props.)
@ Per
You’re welcome. Props. And gaming your wife makes marriage a whooole lot more fun!
Last night I was meh about Fun & Games ™, but Mrs. Gamer was gung ho. (Not sure what was up with that?) Anyway, I went to pick her up and throw her on the bed and she said, “Nooo! Don’t pick me up!” Of course, I picked her up anyway and threw her on the bed. She asked if she felt heavy and I said, “No, you could weigh another 50 lbs. and I could still pick you up easily.” Mrs. Gamer threatened to go on an eating binge. Teasing, of course. Whining, teasing, bitching are all part of the Game. Just bring popcorn.
@ fh
Really?! Are you serious? The Bible seems to be one big sex show to you.
Yeah, you’re right, David and Bathsheba were really just playing tiddly winks. Samson and Delilah likewise. And circumcision is a Jewish folk dance.
Our past presidents, all have only daughters. Their seed (name) dies with them.
You mean like GHW Bush? or John Adams? What about JFK? Or Reagan? Or Taft? Or T. Roosevelt? Or F. Roosevelt? Or A. Jackson? Or F. Pierce? Or Grant?
5% is low.
From 0 to 5% in a very short time is incredible.
Who’s Mommie’s strwong widdle hewo?
The one that suckles while standing up.
Circumcision , in the day, could make some Jewish folk dance…..be sure about it
@Dr torch
Modern past president. America was not morally like it is today as in the past, though not saying it was perfect in the past.
The moral decay is getting faster in American culture
I should have clarified “recent past president”
Sorry women, I have a deity already (e.g. Creator God) and HE is not a woman. I’m not going to treat you as if you’re my god because you are not and never will be. MGTOW.
I really love this one:
” Sex is a gift from God, and when used in the right context, it can be the most joyful experience and gift in your marriage.
It doesn’t come easy, though.”
This guy fails to understand that a women could actually want sex. His life experiences are probably such that he cannot fathom a women offering sex for free out of true desire.
How else do these churchian guys think they can supplicate more than they are. I guess the next sermon from some female preacher is for husbands in sexless marriages need to love their wives enough to allow her to feel sexual relief from someone of her choosing.
I bet if we worked at it we can get that in.
Where do they get the idea that we have to continually pursue our wives? God does not continually pursue us. If we refuse to submit to Him,Romans 1:24-28 says He will give us over to our uncleanness and vile passions. He wants our hearts. After all, He is a jealous God, but He is no love-starved sap, chasing after us like some hungry puppy.
SnapperTrx- 100% spot on.
@Cane
Hilarious!
And when is a ‘war-like posture’ bowing down at the altar of a woman? This article has all sorts of wrong in it. Last time I checked any war movie, bowing down was a sign of surrender, grasping a five foot piece of razor sharp steel with both hands and clenching your teeth – that was a ‘war-like posture’. I think this guy might have some issues with his word comprehension. I shudder to think that other men are learning this. Maybe Wednesday night services should include instructions on how to properly let your mistress plant the heel of her knee-high boot into the back of your exposed neck without leaving a permanent mark.
Husbands are to imitate Christ.
Many do, at least passively. They attempt to lead and love their wives, but are despised, rejected, and ultimately crucified.
Has it ever occurred to these folks that being married is not an end in itself? That a wife is expected to support the husband as he pursues his life mission? That the wife, or his marriage is not his life mission? That the doctrine of “eternal courtship” has no basis in Scripture, and is contrary to reason and common sense?
The article is awful. How do Christian men get it so wrong? All I can see in this article is a preparation for a married life of sexual frustration. I’m no Red Pill man – more a Beta who takes Red Pills – but I can see that everything written in this article is the antithesis of Red Pill thinking – which works, like it or not.
The conclusion’s list of “When was’s…”is particularly depressing. It assumes that women’s desire is based on cause and effect: do this and you get that response. If that were true, 25% of all marriages would not be platonic and sexual frustration the norm for another 40% on top of that.
The Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood should just change it’s name to Council of Biblical Womanhood, or Council for Henpecking. In none of their publications linked to this blog have I ever seen anything remotely resembling a critique of women’s sexual laziness within marriage. Not once. Never. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Every Christian man I know suffers from a scarcity mentality when it comes to women. Even after they’ve been married for a decade that scarcity is manifest in every exaggerated word of praise they have for their wives. It’s this constant self-sense of unworthiness of any woman’s notice much less intimacy.
They’re raised and conditioned to acknowledge this less-than status so if any woman deigns to acknowledge his existence it’s a sign of God’s grace and intervention to him. Once that Christian Beta is miraculously married he evangelizes the same scarcity mentality for his brothers, imploring them (and himself) to spend every waking hour praising their wives and qualifying themselves with acts of life-long devotion, because they are terrified of the thought of having to go back to their worthless single solitude.
Beta Pastors like this guy use overt Dread to commission men to condition other men to accept their God-imposed scarcity mentality.
Dal, it’s an hour, but you should really watch this video:
I had to sit through this and not throw shit at him.
@ Rollo
I know what you are talking about Rollo. Until I came to my last two parishes, all the husbands there had that same attitude. It was especially repellent when the Deacon in one parish weaved it into his homilies. Thankfully the men in my current parish don’t seem to have that. Makes it a lot easier to enjoy their company.
@Rollo:
You probably should have. I figure knocking someone out with a flying Bible counts as proper correction.
@ LG
“Let a good man strike or rebuke me in kindness”
(Psalm 141:5a
Something I noticed as a young man was how these complementarians never try to make marriage attractive. They take for granted that men will keep marrying no matter how many demands and burdens get piled on.
…
Spike @ 5:45 pm:
“The article is awful. How do Christian men get it so wrong?”
They think they’ll be respected if they work hard. They think Pastor has a hot wife, why would his dating advice be bad? They think (and are indoctrinated) that serving a wife is the only legitimate way to serve God. Eventually, constantly being shamed for constantly being rejected will death spiral him into believing he deserves no better… unless he leaves to walk the path of either MGTOW or PUA, neither of which is ideal or easy.
I myself struggle with low self-esteem from a Churchian upbringing. The endless shame of having normal male desires… ten churches in a row have no use for a bachelor except running the damn slide projector… it sinks in that you know the Bible better than every pastor you’ve met in your adult life… when you finally wake up and, like Neo, realize you are nothing but food for an evil so vast that a piece of you no longer wants to live. Do not speak to to me of selfishness; I have seen the face of that beast; I live for myself because that is the one thing slaves are not permitted to do.
@Donal:
Oh, good one. 🙂 So “in kindness” would be keeping it under a need for hospitalization, right? 🙂
TGC and now CBMW can be addictive in a bad way once you see what is going on. I’m so glad every time you highlight one of these. The Scotts (I haven’t seen him much here), RCs, and others may feel some distance from these sites, but they’ve been such a major part of the church culture for me. I think my pastor is going to be a speaker at an upcoming CBMW event, to give you an idea of why Dalrock’s focus recently has been so uplifting.
I was at a guy bible study Tuesday and the guy who keeps denying and minimizing my problems the most is the missionary who got a masters at Wheaton. He completely buys into the mindset of the OP. He’s got 4 kids and a SAHW and thinks everything can be fixed with simple solutions, and he just refuses to grasp the idea of a rebellious and hard female heart.
If it wasn’t for the specific examination here of TGC and CBMW, then I’d have to conclude I worship with zombies based on my church fellowship.
He’s got 4 kids and a SAHW and thinks everything can be fixed with simple solutions, and he just refuses to grasp the idea of a rebellious and hard female heart.
On the now defunct Spearhead there was a commenter by the handle of Anonymous Aged 64. He’s still out there, he’s just 70 or so now. I no longer recall the thread, but he produced Bible quotes from the book of Proverbs having to do with wives. I’ll pass them on to you, with a few he forgot.
Proverbs 12:4, 14:1, 17:1, 19:13, 21:19 and 27:15 – 16
This does not necessarily speak to your situation, Swanny, but it might be a start in cracking the ice with the pastor. Yeah, rebellious, hard hearted, contentious, miserly with affection – that exists. And it’s not new, it’s not something that just happened recently, if it’s in Proverbs it for shore is not new.
Oh, and one more: Proverbs 25:24
You women lurkers, especially the married ones, go look up these. Look yourself in the mirror.
Is that you? If it is, better do something about it soon.
AR, I pray that it will be so soon, but why should it? Who teaches those Proverbs, what coffee talks do those words grace? In today’s conservative church those Proverbs would only cause the men to gang up on me and tell me focus on my own walk and that my improved closeness to the Lord will either bring about a change or be its own reward. Another common response is to dismiss a brother who brings up those verses by saying all women act like that at times, don’t sweat it. And of course, the obligatory telling of guys sins. The church itself has removed the incentives to obey the Word regarding marriage even as they faithfully and weekly teach God’s Word.
Get on the top ring…AR’s verses are an example of that and I think ,I’d faint if I saw a man at church or the TGC, rightly use them.
The Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood should just change it’s name to Council of Biblical Womanhood, or Council for Henpecking.
How about “Cuckholding of Beta Male Weaklings.” That way they won’t even have to change the acronym.
Oh, and one more: Proverbs 25:24
You women lurkers, especially the married ones, go look up these. Look yourself in the mirror.
Is that you? If it is, better do something about it soon.
All of which would require introspection, admission of fault, and a sincere desire to please their husbands.
C’mon now, AR – you’ve been at this long enough to know that women don’t work that way, especially not on their own.
Rollo says:
March 10, 2016 at 9:11 pm
((Evil grin spreads across feeriker’s lips))
I’m tempted to print copies of that and put them up on some church bulletin boards to see if anyone complains – or even notices.
“bpp, do you routinely dunk your wife in the bathtub as a religious act? “I baptize thee in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Amen.”
No, while I have dunked her head in the bathtub, I was holding her low back with one hand and her hair with the other so was not able to make the Sign of the Cross and was also grunting and gasping so I also failed to recite the Trinitarian Formula in English and sadly not even a quiet “in nomine patris et filii et spiritus sancti.”
@Rollo: “I had to sit through this and not throw shit at him.”
You should write a post on how to maintain frame in that situation. I would have left to go to the bathroom and never come back.
@Gunner: “Eventually, constantly being shamed for constantly being rejected will death spiral him into believing he deserves no better… unless he leaves to walk the path of either MGTOW or PUA, neither of which is ideal or easy.”
There really should be another way- you know, something for married guys who want to stay married by taking charge of their marriage, leading, using the known Red Pill attraction cues strategically, and of course, screwing her good and hard. It would have to be some type of praexology between MGTOW and PUA which lets us stay married if possible.
If there were a place for guys working on developing a praexology like that I would call it “Married Red Pill”
https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill
If I wrote a book about that topic I would call it: “Saving a Low Sex Marriage; A man’s guide to Dread, Seduction, and the Long Game”
https://bluepillprofessor.wordpress.com/2015/05/22/hello-world/
@Anon Reader:
This is a checklist the ladies who won’t look them up. Is that you girl?
An excellent[a] wife is the crown of her husband,
But she who causes shame is like rottenness in his bones.
The wise woman builds her house,
But the foolish pulls it down with her hands.
Better is a dry morsel with quietness,
Than a house full of feasting[a] with strife.
A foolish son is the ruin of his father,
And the contentions of a wife are a continual dripping.
Better to dwell in the wilderness,
Than with a contentious and angry woman.
A continual dripping on a very rainy day
And a contentious woman are alike;
Whoever restrains her restrains the wind,
And grasps oil with his right hand.
Of course there is another Checklist for Women of Virtue. Is THAT you ladies?
Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
14 She is like the merchants’ ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.
16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.
18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.
19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.
23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.
28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.
29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all.
30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.
31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.
“Don’t be the guy who comes out of the shower buck naked with a cape trying to pull off the Captain Morgan pose and think that’s going to work.”
That is exactly the guy I want to be.
“Don’t be the guy who comes out of the shower buck naked with a cape trying to pull off the Captain Morgan pose and think that’s going to work.”
Why WOULDN’T it work?????
Yeah, I don’t get how the Captain Morgan bit is supposed to be “wrong”. Are they that ashamed of their manhood that they don’t even want their wife to see it?
Would explain the problem.
@Gunner Q
>They think Pastor has a hot wife, why would his dating advice be bad?
Really? I do not remember any “hot” pastor’s wife.
In my experience:
1) They all have short, boyish hair, rather than hair long enough to give their husbands pleasure by showing “their glory” 1 Cor 11
2) Over half are noticably overweight, a small portion obese. Not from self-control Titus 2:3-5.
3) All either regularly or (almost?) always wear men’s clothing / pants. Regardless of your interpretation of Duet 22:5, this is hardly feminine and attractive.
I cannot think of one pastor’s wife, where I would desire a similar woman.
Sorry to hear you continue to struggle with self-esteem. Regardless of what the servants of Satan tell you, you are worth enough that God himself is concerned with you. Part of Psalm 139
1
You have searched me, Lord,
and you know me.
2
You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.
3
You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.
4
Before a word is on my tongue
you, Lord, know it completely.
5
You hem me in behind and before,
and you lay your hand upon me.
6
Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.
7
Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
8
If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
9
If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10
even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.
11
If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me
and the light become night around me,”
12
even the darkness will not be dark to you;
the night will shine like the day,
for darkness is as light to you.
13
For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
15
My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
16
Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
17
How precious to me are your thoughts, God!
How vast is the sum of them!
18
Were I to count them,
they would outnumber the grains of sand—
when I awake, I am still with you.
Now, I must admit that the love, acceptance and presence of God is not enough. When Adam had a far fuller relationship with God than is possible for us, due to the now-present sin, even then God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone” (Gen 2:18). Fortunately, while a good woman is not open for most Christian men, good Christian fellowship with other men is.
Such male communion will not satisfy all my needs… but it helps with some.
Dalrock’s church is of significant help to me in this respect.
May God bless you my brother.
I cannot think of one pastor’s wife, where I would desire a similar woman.
In your list of negatives you could also have added “are contentious and visibly in competition with their husbands for power and influence over the congregation.”
I can think of only one church I’ve ever attended where the PW wasn’t trying hard to be co-pastor in the “Hillary Clinton as ‘co-president'” mode.
“God denied Barak the glory of the battle because he insisted that a woman go with him as he lead the army.”
Huma Huma Huma! that sounds vaguely familiar. Here in New Israel.
<<<<<>>>>>>>
Because she outweighs Von Miller?
Oops. The quote got erased. It was a response to this;
“Don’t be the guy who comes out of the shower buck naked with a cape trying to pull off the Captain Morgan pose and think that’s going to work.”
Why WOULDN’T it work?????
But the timing got thrown off, I thinkl
think*
Not my greatest 15 second run.
All I need to see is these “men” here:
Useful idiots for the Feminist Complementary movement to conquer Christianity and bend it to their purposes. Each and every one of these boys need their asses kicked. They never had any power over their women to begin with, nothing was ever lost to these gents. Each of the two women in this poster, aside from the Dindu, carry more testosterone than the other “men”, combined. They must surely be a couple of ball-busting shrews. As I said, with no balls to lose, these gents went along with all of it.
They said the following after the swashbuckling towel remark?
Cant happen , years of rejection and the fact that so many wives are armoured up make pharmacology his only hope of this happening
Agreed, Empath. How do they ignore the fact that the wives lose respect for their men? After doing the long list of chores we all know (including the wives) are traditionally a woman’s work, the division of labor bargain is broken. The man earns, turns over his resources to the family AND then performs the work inside the home that a good woman does for her family. All to pursue his wife, make life more comfortable for her so that she might love him and make time and energy to “please” him?
The women would snicker with disrespect at their men. Already been done that discussion, the women don’t want their men to touch them, their skin crawls at the very thought of such a weak man, even their husband, having sex with them after such a degradation. And yet, the Complimentary movement wants this. Logically then, the next thing on the list is granting the women permission to take a lover they can be attracted to because after all, their husband “failed” them. Again.
I don’t get how the Captain Morgan bit is supposed to be “wrong”. Are they that ashamed of their manhood that they don’t even want their wife to see it?
Two reasons. 1)They did it when they were first married and their wives scoffed at them because it was too little. 2) They see it on TV with their wives and their wives insincerely scoff again at “that arrogant jerk”. 3) Women don’t find that attractive because they are too good for that nonsense.
How do they ignore the fact that the wives lose respect for their men?
Because they’ve become so feminized they believe praise from a woman is respect forgetting the fact that it works exactly the opposite of that.
@ empathologism
Brevity is the soul of wit…and you, my friend, are a soul brother.
@ Gunner
I myself struggle with low self-esteem from a Churchian upbringing. The endless shame of having normal male desires.
What you are experiencing is The Matrix ™. Hostile forces have implanted a hostile program in your mind. Your language shows this program operating, even now. Calling yourself a “male” instead of a man is a subtle undermining of your ego. What you should be aiming for is to be able to recognize when that program is operating, see it as hostile propaganda, and be able to lol at it as coming from silly manginas. When you can do this, it will have no power over you.
“Above all else, pursue Jesus. From your pursuit of him, everything else will follow (Jn. 15:5). The wrong thing to do here, I think, is to function as a pastor (or mentor) to your wife. Many people err on this, thinking they have to sit down and do exegetical bible studies with their wives and family every single morning, teaching them and equipping them, as a pastor would his church.
There is an aspect of “love your wife as Christ loved the Church” in this thought, but I think it begins more with you, as the husband, and I think it ends with you, too. Here’s what I mean: Before all else, focus on your relationship with Jesus, not your wife’s relationship with Jesus. Focus on your prayer life. Focus on your heart.
When it is real and genuine, and not out of obligation or duty, then your wife will follow suit. When it feels more manufactured than anything else, then you need to reevaluate and go do some work with God.”
They fear a Godly man who guards, guides and equips his own family like nothing on earth.
“Above all else, pursue Jesus. From your pursuit of him, everything else will follow (Jn. 15:5). The wrong thing to do here, I think, is to function as a pastor (or mentor) to your wife. Many people err on this, thinking they have to sit down and do exegetical bible studies with their wives and family every single morning, teaching them and equipping them, as a pastor would his church.”
There is an aspect of “love your wife as Christ loved the Church” in this thought, but I think it begins more with you, as the husband, and I think it ends with you, too. Here’s what I mean: Before all else, focus on your relationship with Jesus, not your wife’s relationship with Jesus. Focus on your prayer life. Focus on your heart.
When it is real and genuine, and not out of obligation or duty, then your wife will follow suit. When it feels more manufactured than anything else, then you need to reevaluate and go do some work with God.
So a man not married to her can teach you wife. A women can teach your wife. But you, the only one given the Biblical authority to do say can not…..because that is what this guy “thinks”. And of course, this is job security for these people. If American, Christian men woke up enmass they would all be out of jobs.
There is nothing these people find more terrifying then a Godly man who actually guards, guides and equips his family Biblically.
Especially those last two, wow..
“Because dating and pursuing one’s wife is such an incredibly important issue, we are going to begin a multi-part series here at Manual encouraging you, urging you, and coming-off-the-top-rope-with-a-biblical-manhood-elbow-drop into you to challenge you to raise the bar in how you date and pursue your wife.
“There is no close second, bro.”
*Rolls eyes*
Hearing/reading Christian milquetoasts trying to adopt the language of the culture in an attempt to be “relevant” and “hip” is just cringeworthy.
They fear a Godly man who guards, guides and equips his own family like nothing on earth.
Would “they” in this case be churchian beta milquetoast pseudo-pastors? Rebellious churchian women (married or single)? Temporal powers that be whose goal is to destroy the family (a competitor for power and influence)?
I would say all three (and I ask this as a serious rhetorical question, BTW).
I think about “Last of the Mohicans” and Uncas charging to rescue Alice. And killing and dying in perpetuity, like Sisyphus with a tomahawk. I see Kora look at Hawkeye and proclaim that he must pursue her like THAT to prove his love and her worth.
At some point the hero is supposed to get the prize. What is heroic about being a dead sucker? At some point the pursuit must end and the possession of the prize must start.
Since men aren’t allowed to have and to hold anymore we are left with what Dalrock aptly describes.
What else would you expect from cowards?
We are left with a hollowed out form or marriage and perpetual pussy worship. Yay!
@feeriker
“I would say all three (and I ask this as a serious rhetorical question, BTW).”
All three have the same thing driving them and don’t want to actually have to fight a “strongman”, better to persuade him to walk away. We wrestle not against flesh and all that.
Just an aside, why are all these “Pastors” threatening physical violence against other men? I would like to see this man try to elbow drop me let alone a bunch of men.
@Jim Christian, compare and contrast the looks and message of the complementarity “men” and these guys:
@ feministhater, to the FI a dead Uncas is better than a live Hawkeye. Look how much more he sacrificed to prove his woman’s worth!
Everything about that article’s stance is opposite to scripture. Jesus did not chase or pander to the church. In his whole ministry he was found saying, “follow me.” Which, if you know anything about female desire, they want a man who leads. I’m astonished. 2Tim 4:3.For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions.
Rollo, I didn’t make it far before I noticed the pastor (and presumably his wife) would have $85K of debt when he was a youth pastor. How can we trust anything he says if he is stupid enough to get in that much debt for nothing of use in his calling? Youth pastors (or even pastors) didn’t need a really expensive degree the last time I checked.
And his wife was in the middle of gaining more debt and he just jokes about it?
@Bill Smith
Ignoring living and family expenses, the seminary I went to would have been about $30k (Canadian). So perhaps the seminary you considered was far more expensive.
I stopped going after trying to communicate to the dean of theology that the seminary was a religious school instead of a Bible school, and that this was bad/inadequate.
i’ve commented already, but i stumbled on this song from my past. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj4gqJzlIvc It’s normally a song for cheaters, but the article in question channels the spirit of the song for winning the heart of a bored ex girlfriend/now wife for a lifetime(?) but not properly chastised for a man’s use based on Deuteronomy 24:5. Now you know.
Pursuing the wife is another great glob of consensus or conventional wisdom that everyone just knows. It works in a synergistic way with the slow cooker and microwave sex metaphors as well as the never fix, just listen advice, These and more, mixed up in a melange, is crap.
Hardly anyone even thinks anymore. The reason all those early days with spouse were so cool is that you learned new things with each conversation, each shared activity, all the time new new new stuff. That makes it interesting. Imagine the best book you’ve ever read. Now, read it 30 times front to back consecutive days reading. It will not be great after awhile.
There are things to do to make life fun and interesting. I personally think rightly deployed humor, well crafted gullibility tests for wife, planned pranks, etc….are good. Talk talk talking with her and truly not really even understanding what she is saying, is not helpful. If she mentions an interesting thing and we begin to converse, I get totally lost. She will use the words “that” and “this” with reckless regard for whether they convey what the thing is she is referring to. If i stop and ask her, what is “that” is it the fridge or the city water department? She says I should wait, she will get around to it.
No, she wont. In fact she often gets pulled into some other conversation and cannot even recall what she was telling me. And with this i am expected to learn her heart and all that. She will insist that she told me something, and she didnt, or that I did not tell her something, but I did, and the kids all constantly back me saying mom, not only did he tell you he was doing xyz tomorrow, you had a back and forth conversation about it.
Im not sure how men are to pursue women after 26 years married. I believe we can make the marriage fun and rewarding, comfortably age together. But the magic was the learning new things. That’s all done. These pastors are convinced that by recreating early marriage days and reconnecting the wife will pant for sex. They are lousy with knnow-nuthin
Your experience reminds me of my ex-wife’s behavior about our communication. Sometimes she was right, but sometimes she was wrong. When I was not certain, I would say that I didn’t think she told me, but I might have forgotten or not actually listened when she told me. In the reverse scenario, she never did that. What I hated most was her unwillingness to apologize to me when it was proven she had not told me. Instead, she would often say, “Aren’t I allowed to make a mistake?” It did not seem that I was allowed to make one.
I hope that your wife respects you and is willing to apologize when she is wrong. If she won’t apologize, then she needs to change her behavior, and I hope you can find a way to accomplish that.
“Aren’t I allowed to make a mistake?”
What you ought to have said: “Not when you refuse to apologize.”
It did not seem that I was allowed to make one.
Rule #1
The Boss is always right.
Rule #2
If the Boss is wrong, see Rule #1.
The issue is almost always whether you can hold frame and pass the shit test. Any little mistakes pale by comparison.
I can’t help but wonder if what drives this blue pill beta greg gibson is an awakening of just how truly vulnerable he is to his wife’s displeasure if he fails to satisfactorily worship her. Obviously he’s much better off with dread game than what he’s trying to sell us but remember he’s lost on how women actually work. He’s no doubt watched many hapless Christian men go through divorces where adulterous wives and the courts reduced the husbands to visitors in their children’s lives. After being thrown out of their own homes the whores sometimes move boyfriends into the ex-husbands home, bed and role as man of the house, an immoral other man interacting with his kids… Now the Christian ex-husband pays child support/alimony to his whorish ex-wife and her stud. Are you pissed off just thinking about it or is it fear you feel?
@Feministhater: That’s a pair of square-jawed Mamas for sure. Those boys in the top row, 1,2,3, look like complete cucks. No match for the “women”. The Dindu sets off my gaydar a little, truthfully. Anyone know if homos and tranzzies are accepted and/or celbrated in the Comp community?
@ Rollo, Thanks, I didn’t need that. Cucks, apologizing for being men. Well-trained little fellas, aren’t they? I don’t know why they don’t demonstrate their sorrow and both drop their pants and together, slice off their little bitty man-parts in absolution and sorrow. They clearly have no use for them. Still, that might gain the approval of the women in their lives. What ya think, Rollow, does their pathetic tome in the video buy them ANYTHING with the women in their lives? Knowing the women that have passed in and out my doors, I think not. Ye Gods.
I have not read whole thread so apologies if this has been mentioned, but it seems for a lot of you the disagreement is just about technique. They want to chase their wives forever, you want to “game” your wife forever. That is a technique question – both agree a husband dedicates his life to some effort to maintain her. I don’t have time for that. I have a life to live. Both game and this supplication is a waste of time.
Nobody wants to “game’ their wife it is just something you have to do with the current laws of misandry. Most if not all of the behaviors you see here including the feminized supplicating church is a just a work around for the laws of misandry. With out the laws of misandry I would just get rid of her and be a single dad. That being said with out the laws of misandry I wouldn’t need to get rid her.
@Rollo
Try to imagine a woman producing a similar “Dear Man” video and apologizing on behalf of an entire gender.
Not in our lifetime.
One of the guys in that “Dear Woman” video is John Gray, the author of the Mars & Venus book that is – according to Amazon – “The New York Times #1 Best Seller on Relationships of All Time” with 50 million copies sold.
Amazing how helpful those 50 million copies have been, what with the dramatic reversal of divorce trends we’ve seen and the reciprocal empathy/respect/understanding/honor of Venusians towards Martians.
@Kevin,
I agree. The redpill starts off as the greatest thing but then some tougher issues arise. For me, the most disagreeable fact of all is that ‘game’ doesn’t end with marriage. A lot of guys say that ‘game’ is just beginning then. Ugghh… I’m sure it’s true and I know some guys have so internalized ‘frame’ etc that it might not be as difficult as it sounds (for them). But the fact that ‘game’ is essential in marriage is about the most exhausting concept imaginable. The thought of a daily game of psychological jenga with a flighty female mind (that is absorbing divorce porn like a sponge) just seems like a ‘waste of time’ as you say. A lifetime of jumping through hoops for a woman who I don’t even care to see naked (after the first year or two) is just screaming ‘WHY?’ to me. Developing an effortless ability to jump through those hoops (natural gaming) is still hoop-jumping imo.
clean the house….
why are these christians so obsessed with trying to domesticate men?
I do not recall God disparaging a single man in the bible for not looking after the house well enough or not practising good homemaking
men demonstrated their love for their wives by being men, leading, protecting , providing
yet now it is twisted and being domestic is part of being a Godly man…
sigh
in fact it seems like CBMW have just taken Sheryl Sandberg’s lean in and thrown a few biblical words in it…
loving this series Dalrock!
@feministhater,
“We are left with a hollowed out form or marriage and perpetual pussy worship. Yay!”
Not to mention extremely low-grade pussy at that, 9 times out of 10. One thing that happens when guys start to philosophize about women is that ‘pussy’ becomes a concept that is just an idea straight across the board. ‘Fungible’ is the right word, maybe. Like it’s all the same numeral to be used in these equations. But it’s not fungible at all. Is it a 24 year old Venezuelan with long black hair and a fantasy-fiction novel physique or is it a 38 year old donut-eating Dunhamite? That MAJOR difference is too often disregarded when males start working up their equations with this stuff.
@Anon
To clarify the Ancient Greeks never got female suffrage. Yet America and the modern world managed to progress to that once they transitioned to a Republic.
My church’s teenage group is watching “Old Fashioned” (evidently it’s the ‘christian-date-movie-what-a-godly-man-does-to-pursue-a-woman-type-of-film).
They ordered the expanded package with workbooks, companions, guides, worksheets and other teaching accessories and during church announcements it was said “And married guys…you should come to this too you may learn that pursuing your wife is a life-long process, you have to learn to make her your queen!”
I glanced over the materials…it’s all geared to Christian teenage boys / Christian college aged boys mostly even though our teen group is about 95% girls………and it teaches the boys to be exactly what NOT a Christian girl wants. We’re raising another generation of boys in the church who are limp, wet noodles, pacified, spineless and giving the future generation of women to “justify” sin and date “real men, who are not Christian…..but God knows their heart….”
The movie is a joke. Guy has to come to terms with his past and be “the man God intended him to be” while the “free spirit” girl doesn’t even become Christian (wait…..she reads a verse in the Bible……..so God knows her heart and her (cough) intentions), and he is pursuing her.
Shameful is what it is. No one speaks up about this. I mentioned to a few of the men, and it’s shrugged shoulders and dumb lines of “God has the plan, and we win in the end”
@Kaminsky,
“I agree. The redpill starts off as the greatest thing but then some tougher issues arise. For me, the most disagreeable fact of all is that ‘game’ doesn’t end with marriage. A lot of guys say that ‘game’ is just beginning then. Ugghh… ”
Gaming my wife is fun. Cocky/funny, Agree & Amplify, flirting and slapping the wife on the rear throughout the day is fun. Gaming clerks at the store is much more fun than staring at the cash register. Dalrock even said, “If it is not fun, you aren’t doing it right.”
Jim Christian, thanks for pasting the CBMW flyer. I’ve mentioned that my pastor will be speaking at an upcoming CBMW event but I didn’t know the details. It’s that event and he’s in the top row. I don’t think he’s aware of the red pill viewpoint of headship and wouldn’t be surprised if he becomes an advocate of it once he learns of it. Or at least that’s what I hope for. I came to this point because of, primarily, a wife who is so rebellious that she is but a caricature of a strong independent woman. For my pastor, his wife is so supportive, hardworking and sweet, it will be a different path to headship. Red pill would only seem like an enabling of abusive men to him (he doesn’t buy into the idea that unhappiness is equal to abuse, he sees physical abusecas abuse, and I don’t know if he considers porn as abusive). He watches more sports than me, determines the food they eat at home and doesn’t do domestic work and has 5 kids so I don’t think he is like what people here think of. But I do wish he wasn’t silent about headship but it’s probably due to the fact that he’s running his house with strength. I hate these caboose comments, no one reads them it seems. Hello….hello……
@Swanny River:
We see them. If it comes up with the pastor, just call him Blind and a Coward. Blind because while he is Blessed, not everyone else is and it’s the height of arrogance to ascribe yourself as the arbiter as what others have to deal with. A Coward because he would never tell the Women that how his wife acts is how they *should* be acting and you’re doing your Faith wrong if you don’t.
Realize that nearly all Christians can, generously, be called “Blind Fools”. And I choose that phrase very specifically, as anyone with a solid grasp of the use of “fool” will catch on to. It’s a deep & accurate insult.
@Swanny River & @Looking Glass
Many people really do seem to lead charmed lives. They have idyllic childhoods, followed by good experiences in college and in the workforce, and then they marry an excellent spouse. It often leads them to assume that other people are exaggerating their problems, or that other people’s wounds are largely self-inflicted.
These people have no understanding at all of what it is like to be trapped in a marriage with a spouse who lacks a basic sense of fairness, because they have never even had to deal with a truly rotten boss or co-worker. Lots of these people end up as pastors and marriage counselors and their limited life experience causes a lot of damage. They smile and say that “it takes two to tango” without ever realizing that in a lot of troubled relationships, one person is vastly more at fault than the other. They will urge you to invest even more heavily in the relationship than you have in the past, and communicate, communicate, communicate while the other spouse continues engaging in outrageous behavior while lying about it to the pastor/counselor.
Sometimes these people do get a huge wake-up call of their own at some point in later life, but by then they have given out a lot of bad advice to a lot of desperate people. Youth pastors who tell high school kids that as long as they have Jesus in their hearts, everything will turn out fine because the Lord is going to smooth the path before them are contributing to the sky high divorce rate in the church. The church would probably be healthier if a much higher proportion of pastors were ordained only AFTER spending ten years or more in another line of work.
@Original Laura:
The sad part is that those jobs, especially a pastor’s, should utterly disabuse the notion that their own lives apply to the lives of others. So I wholly agree with your point about the way they operate and what they should do different, it only reinforces my point about being “Blind Fools” and their own arrogance.
The church would probably be healthier if a much higher proportion of pastors were ordained only AFTER spending ten years or more in another line of work.
Virtually every church leader in the Bible had a secular employment at some point. Even Jesus was an accomplished carpenter for much of his life.
Looking Glass and Original Laura,
I second the idea of working first. Because they won’t give up the idea that being a pastor requires a Masters or PhD you are still looking at a person who is likely to be blue pill. The schooling will train him that way and the fact that he is willing to comply with going through so much sitting and listening. I have never known a pastor who has fixed a car, been in a fight, likes to hunt, etc.
Laura, your comment about it taking two to tango really cuts to the bone. I hate that self-referential sense of objectiveness with a passion. I’m sorry for anybody who has gone through the pain of having that phrase wielded against them. I hear an ugly version of it often, “let’s just focus on you since that’s all you control.,”
Dalrock:
I hope you will consider adding /r/MarriedRedpill to your sidebar. We have tried to split the difference between Athol’s Purple Pill approach with a more Red Pill “Alpha” approach emphasizing both MAP-ing and Dread Game. I know you object to advanced Dread Game and we can certainly strengthen and clarify your objection to that portion. I would even like to consider a Christo-manosphere Flair for comments and questions on MRP but am not sure how that would work and have not spent a lot of time thinking about this novel idea.
I have taken a lot of time thinking about female participation on MRP and am rapidly coming to the same conclusion as you. Male space is not aided by female commenters. Full stop. We have taken considerable heat for already effectively banning women (by demanding respectful comments from a modern woman, lol) from commenting but it was necessary, again to prevent the Athol Kay Femcentric creep.
Many of us on MRP are followers of your writings and we would very much value your input into what we are doing and what we can do better.
Thanks much for all that you do, for considering us on your sidebar, and for any input you would care to provide.
BPP
@Swanny River
We have all fallen short of the glory of God, and following Christ compels us to forgive others as He has forgiven us, which includes forgiveness for repetitive sins. But at some point you have to draw a distinction between “weakness” and “evil” and a lot of Christians just can’t do it.
When the pastor/counselor says, “let’s just focus on you since that’s all you control,” he is stating a truth of sorts, but missing the larger point. In many cases, the erring spouse is well satisfied with the status quo and sees no need to make any changes in his/her own behavior. He or she just wishes that the “victim spouse” would be more cheerful about the current level of exploitation.
There are no perfect marriages, and it is reasonable to encourage people to be realistic about what life has to offer, and to help them understand that divorce creates more problems than it solves in most cases, but a lot of pastors/counselors take a light & breezy attitude toward the dreadful situations that others are in. “It’s all gonna work out fantastic in God’s own time. Just be patient.” I wonder how long they would patiently wait for a miraculous deliverance if they were dealing with the spousal behavior that the person sitting in their office is dealing with?
As I commented earlier, there are MANY pastors who have never found themselves in any sort of important relationship in life that was relentlessly negative. They may have been burglarized, or cheated by a repairman, etc., but they grew up in a happy home, and currently have a happy marriage and a stable career in a church organization in which they have a great deal of status and in which they are respected and well treated by others. They believe that all people are basically good, and nothing has ever happened to them that would cause them to re-think their sunny worldview. They assume that there is a reasonable compromise for every relationship problem, and they really can’t offer much help to someone in your situation, because they are going to give your wife the “benefit of the doubt” until the cows come home. The level of selfishness that you are dealing with is simply beyond their understanding.
The only counseling that has a chance of helping you in any way would be counseling from a Christian man who has more-or-less been in your shoes.
BPP, on the old Spearhead Zed proposed a zero female policy. That seemed extreme to me. Then we went through a number of endless attention-demanding threads and I began to understand. Women want men’s attention. They’ll do a lot of things to get it, to be the center of attention for a group of men. That’s one thing at a SciFi convention, it’s something else again in a group where men are trying to solve problems rather than just talk about themselves. The male-centric “I don’t understand this porblem, everything I”ve been told to do has failed, what is going on?” is not, repeat, not properly answered by some woman babbling on about “if you’d just do this…” or “my husband does that”. And those are the helpful ones. The attention whores, the FI “get back in your pen” enforcer wannabes…no.
More stark was the account by Anonymous Aged 68, who had worked diligently in the 80’s and 90’s with divorced men. He stated flatly that at one point he had participated in group meetings with men and women either in the divorce grinder or just out of it, and too many men were killing themselves. So he kicked the women out and went to all men groups – the suicides dropped immediately.
It’s that stark. Men in a very difficult situation, like the divorce grinder, can become hopeless. Women “advising” or “helping” at that point surely is like rubbing on a raw nerve.
Because they won’t give up the idea that being a pastor requires a Masters or PhD
Post-graduate degrees in the secular world are useless and toxic enough. In the world of theology they’ve been destructive to the point of being almost satanic.
Seminaries were infected with modernism starting with Union Theological Seminary. The Southern Baptists have recently (last 30 years or so) fought off a modernist infection. Modernism gained great credibility in the seminaries because the Grand Theory of Evolution became widely accepted and TOE was considered by many to have effectively undermined Genesis and the Bible.
Modernism gained great credibility in the seminaries because the Grand Theory of Evolution became widely accepted and TOE was considered by many to have effectively undermined Genesis and the Bible.
I think it’s much more mundane than that. Modernism won because, very simply, it’s easier to live than Christianity. Modernism doesn’t demand sacrifice, self-discipline, or adherence to immutable moral principles. It’s the philosophical tool used to separate the Christian wheat from the churchian/secular chaff. I certainly needn’t point out the chaff to wheat ratio.
@ASDgamer:
The Seminaries started to be “captured” in the 1700s. The Ivy League schools were considered all but worthless for actually educating pastors a very long time ago. (A point they don’t like to make when explaining why they’ve been around for hundreds of years.)
These days, most Seminaries should just be burned to the ground. The existence of the buildings is a negative on society.
@feeriker:
It’s a little more pernicious than that. Modernism “works” because it could co-opt cultures with Christian principles embedded within. Much of the “interaction matrix” is Christian in nature in the West, so while actual adherence has historically been bad, there’s a built-in understanding about how things should work.
With Modernism, it’s one giant, massive “Free Rider” effect. But only a few can be a “Free Rider”. The problem is that the Feminine Imperative is always about Free Riding. What we’re seeing is the massive cracks forming in the old order. It’s going to be bloody when it breaks.
This is actually the driving aspect behind the “Trumpening”. Those that have been exploited for years have found a very imperfect avatar, and they want a reckoning. Hopefully it happens at the ballot box because we all know what happens when it doesn’t.
My primary experience with satisfaction with the status quo relates to sex in marriage. My ex-wife was content with the frequency and quality, so she was not motivated to make changes. However, when it came to her perception that I was emotionally abusing her, she pushed for counselling with no hesitation, aiming to have me change.
As a “preacher’s kid”, I disagree with the notion that they are respected and well treated by others. My father was not always respected by all the church leaders, and probably more often than I realized. In one church, I am certain some of the church leaders and congregation were extremely negative to my father. That extended to the rest of my family and me. Admittedly, this was a case that was effectively a church split, in that my father outlasted the opposition and they left the church.
His career was not terribly stable, either. In our churches, there is no national denomination who control the placement of ministers. So, for various reasons, he would decide to leave, or they would decide he should leave. But in most denominations today, it is probably true that pastors’ careers are relatively stable.
Dear Seventies Jason:
The immediate comeback to that is to ask where that line exists in the body of the text.
“Where does it say that we should sit tight and do nothing?”
I predict an immediate meltdown, based on past experience. Guaranteed to amuse and entertain, every time.
Boxer
feeriker @ 10:30 pm:
” ‘Modernism gained great credibility in the seminaries because the Grand Theory of Evolution became widely accepted and TOE was considered by many to have effectively undermined Genesis and the Bible.’
I think it’s much more mundane than that. Modernism won because, very simply, it’s easier to live than Christianity. Modernism doesn’t demand sacrifice, self-discipline, or adherence to immutable moral principles.”
Modernism is the child of Evolution, the logical conclusion of believing we’re different creatures than ages past, that Progress always happens and is always better. It is poison to the idea that we are a created species and dependent upon our Creator.
I was once told directly by a pastor that it’s okay to have women leading men because we’re wiser today than 2,000 years ago. That’s Evolution talking.
@Gunner Q:
A theoretical response to that pastor:
“I’ve read Paul. I’ve listened to you a lot. If you honestly think you’re wiser than Paul, you just told me you shouldn’t have your position at all.”
>“Where does it say that we should sit tight and do nothing?”
It is definitely not in the Book of James but many denominations do not accept this Book. There is no doubt some of Paul’s writings state that Faith is the only thing you need and that “works” are pointless.
“I’ve read Paul. I’ve listened to you a lot. If you honestly think you’re wiser than Paul, you just told me you shouldn’t have your position at all.”
Yes, and to which I would also add “and if we’re all wiser today than 2,000 years ago, why are you paying ANY attention whatsoever to ANYTHING in the Bible? Why would God have dictated His wisdom and direction to us to benighted fools back then rather than wait until now (or another 2000 years hence, when we should, by your “logic,” be even wiser still)?
Indeed, a buffoon who makes a statement like that pastor made doesn’t deserve to be leading any church. Further proof, IME, of the toxicity of modern seminaries – and a very revelatory picture of the type of person who graduates from them.
@LG,
At the time I responded by approaching other members of the church leadership looking for support. All of them agreed with the pastor. The denomination, Assemblies of God, had it as an official position too. Because a female teacher of men had already been installed, I was left with the choice of demanding the church split from its entire command structure or a quiet departure.
Pity. That particular church had impressed me enough that I had joined it in hopes of preventing just such an occurrence. But membership, even volunteer work, didn’t give me a voice with which to defend the church.
…
“Where does it say that we should sit tight and do nothing?”
God does occasionally require it. The battle of Jericho, Christ’s uncomfortable advice to do what the Pharisees said but not what they did, the gap between the Resurrection and Pentecost, the Revelation church of Philadelphia. Patience in the face of affliction is a big part of Christian discipline.
Dale, I was talking about the guy in the video posted before my comment. The speaker said he and his wife to be (at the time of his story) would be $85K in debt when they married, with his wife piling up more to get a graduate degree. That is ludicrous for someone who is a youth pastor. I would argue it is stupid for just about anyone, even a doctor, but it may be bearable if the income potential is high. Youth pastors and even lead pastors don’t make much in general.
Going into huge debt is stupid. Doing so before a career in the “ministry” is especially dumb.
Anyone who doesn’t have a problem with that (as the speaker seemed to not have) is already showing poor reasoning.
I have no idea about your personal situation, so I am not commenting on that, unless you were boasting about having a lot of debt. I didn’t see that, though some preachers do seem proud of idiotic things like this.
Does this help?
Kevin,
I don’t want to do many things I have to do in life. Life is about doing the things that will help us accomplish our goals. Finding the ways to best accomplish these is part of the process. Anyone who marries and then completely ignores anything related to making it easier for their wife to follow is more than a slight bit stupid. Society has taken it far to far to the wife is a princess end of things, but that doesn’t negate the value of doing productive things to get productive results.
Gaming your wife should be fun, as others noted. It isn’t always, but making it a chore means you are not doing things correctly.
Wow… what a bunch of crap. I was raised a Christian… and I do not understand these people. They are trying to brainwash men according to feminism and putting a Christian spin on it. Lol’ing, very hard!
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