I thought I was done with Wonder Woman, but yesterday’s Wonder Woman Op Ed by Jessica Bennett at the NYT is too hilarious not to share. See the accompanying photo, described as:
Attendees of an all-women screening of “Wonder Woman” at the Alamo Drafthouse in Brooklyn.
Credit Nicole Craine for The New York Times
The photo shows two women in “Nasty Woman” T shirts wearing paper tiaras, with facial expressions so stunted the woman in the foreground looks like she just soiled herself.
Was the crowd at the theater so incredibly stunted that this was the best photo the Times could run to display the empowerment of the movie? Or perhaps the professionals at the NYT were crying too hard after watching the film to notice how laughable the photo was:
It was the first fight scene of the movie, and I was trying not to sob.
Maybe they were blinded by a strange feeling of ferociousness:
In fact, I was proud. So were legions of women I know who took daughters, nieces, nephews, mentees or simply went in droves, some of them to women-only screenings — and walked out of theaters with a strange feeling of ferociousness.
Bennett explains that the movie is important because visual images are important:
…visual storytelling — which brain researchers will tell you is processed tens of thousands of times faster than the written word. And yet so much of the messaging we receive about who can do what in the world is subliminal…
Indeed.
I think the one in back might be that man that slipped in to the screening.
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It might be the shadow, but I’m telling you, it looks as if (xhe) has an adams apple.
I went and saw it on Sunday as a comic book fan and not necessarily a Wonder Woman fan.
It’s a pretty solid little movie. And if you didn’t read anything about feminism or an agenda beforehand, you wouldn’t even think about any of those things while watching it. It’s amazing, though not unexpected, the way they’re trying to force it to be all sorts of things that it’s not.
Wonder Woman = fantasy. Reality: https://www.steynonline.com/7841/dangerous-woman-meets-dangerous-man
Mentees? Is that an aquatic mammal found in Florida, or a large collection of Mentoes, or something else?
Hilarious.
Of course male reviewers are bending over backwards in obeisance to the FI in their reviews. The WSJ review mentioned it as an amazing portrayal of female empowerment in the very first graf of the review. Sorry, but not seeing this one — not contributing to that garbage of an agenda.
Make mine Marvel
I don’t even see the point any more. Most of the movies have plot holes that could fit a death star. They’re all written to pander to our modern sensibilities even if they are ancient stories. The only acceptable baddies are Russian mobsters, and white rednecks. Let’s be sure and throw in some gratuitous T&A for the teen male demographic.
Add to it the cost and friction of going to the theater, and I’d rather keep working on The Republic. At least I know there is value in reading Plato even if he is nuts.
John Wick was a decent movie, but the second one was garbage. Guardians of the Galaxy and #2 were OK, better than average, but when compared against the hassle of going to the theater and the cost, I’d rather watch someone on youtube with my adblocker turned on.
Disclaimer: Didn’t see the picture – won’t, as I don’t have any daughters to consider as some commenters do.
In fact, I was proud.
This quote from Jessica Bennett (35 years of age, lives with dog in NYC, writes feminist books and articles http://www.jessicabennett.me/about/ ) follows directly on the heels of this quote.
And yet, much like Jill Lepore, the author of “The Secret History of Wonder Woman,” put it in The New Yorker: “I am not proud that I found comfort in watching a woman in a golden tiara and thigh-high boots clobber hordes of terrible men. But I did.”
Jill Lepore was comforted, but Jessica was in fact “proud”. The point of pride is the clobbering of hordes of terrible men by the ferocious woman.
That Bennett Op Ed is worth a look. There is unintended comedic value, but it also shows an understanding of what is effective on her readers. She is next gen feminist leadership. Not fat, tatted, dyed or shaved off hair; doesn’t seem like one to be wearing a pussy hat and screeching invective. She looks sane, has a platform and writes to her base with the kind of terminology they understand. “Clever girl”, as a man once said to a dinosaur right before it killed him.
@ Novaseeker:
Of course male reviewers are bending over backwards in obeisance to the FI in their reviews. The WSJ review mentioned it as an amazing portrayal of female empowerment in the very first graf of the review.
That’s NOT what this film was. I saw it, and I have no idea what the feminist empowerment hoopla is about. These women are all delusional, seeing what they wanted to believe was there. I reviewed it too, if you want the Cliff’s Notes version.
Elspeth —
Fair enough. I think that the feminist empowerment hoopla springs from the rather obvious fantasy of a super-powerful woman kicking huge numbers of men in their asses, physically. Yes, she falls in love with a mere mortal human man, but that’s coming from a position of super-powerful, feminine, strength — no dependence, no physical inferiority. Just the pure choice of a powerful, independent, empowered female to *choose* to love a physically inferior, merely mortal, male. I don’t see how it could be more third wave feminist, really. The image of a woman who is more powerful than all mortal men, not dependent on any man, choosing to love a lesser male is not undermining of third wave feminism — it’s kind of the ideal.
In any case, I didn’t see the film, and I won’t, so I am basing what I wrote there on how you have described it. Frankly, it seems very feminist to me.
Elspeth (and others),
You may want to listen to
He notes several key underlying things in the movie.
I have not seen it and find it unlikely I will, even though I was quite the comic book fan and would have loved all this movies (in concept at least) when I was younger).
I do note that many non-thin women like anime and I have yet to see one favorable female character in anime that is not thin. Funny that that entire genre proves that only a certain figure is attractive.
Fair enough. The fact that she isn’t human (ergo, in no way relatable to the average woman) completely ruined the feminist angle as far as I was concerned.
It would be like men bursting out into tears when they first saw Superman on the big screen because “Finally! Someone I can look to, emulate, and be one day!” Most people would think such a thing was absurd.
That was my takeaway. *shrug* Just another superhero movie as far as I could tell.
A key thing noted in the video I linked is that only one evil woman was in the movie, and she was allowed to live at the end. All men were bad except for one and he died to save things, even though other routes to salvation existed.
The flaw today is that the underlying values are so woven in we can get used to them and only see the action parts. Thus we enjoy things and don’t realize what we are “affirming” when we share our enjoyment.
I am not seeking to ban everyone from such movies, but it is worth considering the underlying messages much more.
completely ruined the feminist angle as far as I was concerned.
Sure, I saw that was what you were focused on. And I get that distinction. But that’s’ lost in that she was *female*. That is the main takeaway, and I think it isn’t accurate to think that the feminist, woman, director didn’t intend it to be a film about female empowerment.
Men don’t cry about male superheroes kicking ass because we have no physical inferiority complex about our physical strength when compared to women. Women, however, especially feminist ones, rue, rue, rue the physical strength disparity, and seeing a female, even a super-natural one, completely obliterating that (in real life un-obliteratable) inferiority is deeply emotionally cathartic for feminists, and almost certainly was intended to be so by the director — again, as far as I can tell from what I have seen written about the film, and from the reactions to it by both male and female reviewers and op-eds.
Agreed, the feminists are seeing what they want to see. This is always the case.
And being as feminists favored daughters financially landed flat on their fat-asses in ‘Ghostbusters’ last year; they are clamoring to hitch their wagon to a ‘winner’ and force the WW movie into their pre-ordained mold.
Wonder Woman crushed it at the box office this past weekend not because it was chock-full of feminist bullshit……….but because it was restrained in that regard (relatively speaking).
There are a couple of moments when the director absolutely couldn’t help herself and threw some one-liners at the men in the movie (and the audience). But it could have been much, much worse……and I think DC understands they are NOT trying to push male viewers out of the theatre; as women will not be enough to financially fill the void if men boycott.
Again, see 2016 ‘turd of the year’ “Ghostbusters” for the proof thereof.
Just the past couple of days, Dan Aykroyd came out speaking poorly of Paul Feig and blaming him for the budget overshoot of 30-40 million re: reshoots that ‘they’ (whoever the fuck ‘they’ are) asked Feig to shoot originally.
At the same time Aykroyd double-downed supporting the female cast. Aykroyd still doesn’t get it, and even with a 40 million haircut in costs Ghostbusters STILL would have lost money.
Feig is getting his just desserts for being a stubborn a**hole to the fans of the original Ghostbusters. Enjoy your new life directing movies with single digit budget figures.
FYI………..Wonder Woman still didn’t do as well as the original Spiderman from 2002 (and that’s with unadjusted dollars I believe). I.E. Spiderman took even more in 2017 dollars.
Any woman that would don a ‘Nasty Woman’ T-shirt deserves to walk a tough, dreary life……….alone.
It is a cunty attitude to put it mildly.
There is nothing empowering about it, unless you embrace the idea that your terrible attitude is endearing to those around you.
I get the Trump reference, but so what? The decision by HRC to run with that ‘Nasty Woman’ label is undoubtedly part of what lost her the election.
Men are sick and tired of women who wear their rebelliousness on their sleeve.
For Christ’s sake……what man would wear a ‘Nasty Man’ T-shirt?
We DON’T NEED women to pick up the mantle of feminism! We NEED more women to pick up the mantle of femininity!
legions of women I know who took daughters, nieces, nephews, mentees or simply went in droves, some of them to women-only screenings — and walked out of theaters with a strange feeling of ferociousness.
Those women would have that feeling of ferociousness for about a second in a real fight, until an adult male knocked them on their ass and put her in the hospital with a fractured skull like that chick who took a swing at a frat boy at Rutgers.
“I felt ferocious after watching this awesome film, then a man I didn’t find attractive spoke to me, and I collapsed in a quivering ball of fear from this street harassment. Why is the government protecting us vulnerable women?! There should be a law!”
If chicks want real empowerment, we should do away with domestic violence laws all together and let the chips fall where they may. No difference between men and women at all and the idea that women need anyone for protection is merely outdated Patriarch nonsense.
Women should be made to put their money where their mouths are. They are not empowered by their own wits or strength but instead through an entire system that caters to their whims and protects them from the consequences of their actions. If women can do everything a man can do and better than men should be the ones who need protection from women not the way it is now.
Just another movie that pretends women can make a difference – only with super powers though, eh? They’re empowered till a fist meets their face..
Whilst Wonder Woman has super powers, the modern female gets hers from the state. You don’t get what feminism is, do you? It’s women bartering with the state to put men in their place. That’s all it is. Women give their vote in exchange for power over men. The state puts men to the sword to keep them in line at the behest of feminists.
Take away the state, you take away Wonder Woman’s power.
@Elspeth:
The one detail is, I believe, that these Women already live in a fantasy world they don’t want to leave, so they can’t abstract properly from it. It’s little different than some small child thinking Star Wars is real.
The worst part is that these aren’t children, they’re adult Women. Who, as we understand, are little different from children.
As to the Cultural Programming angle, I’ve gotten the impression it’s actually far less pushy than most Sci-Fi movies. Probably because if they got pushy with it, it was going to collapse a movie they could little afford to fail. This wasn’t Ghostbusters with stupid studio execs. This was DC + Warner with a very important need to not blow their 1+ Billion dollar investment into this DC movie universe. The All-Mighty Dollar keeps the stupid in check a bit.
It’s still a Half-god from a Fantasy realm based off a real but ancient pagan religion that’s played by a Model that has a relationship with a Hollywood star. It’s pure projection bait for the Hamster, if you can’t abstract from it.
It’s pure projection bait for the Hamster, if you can’t abstract from it.
I’d wager it wasn’t intended for people to abstract from it.
Reminds me of….
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I’ll just wait for CinemaSins to post his disrespecting of WW. That should cover all the movie’s (two or three) highlights.
Reading the linked article, I wonder how seeing WW could possibly be empowering to women. These people do have the adult ability to separate fact from fiction, yes? It would explain SO MUCH if women could read a couple comic books and honestly believe that they became superpowered humans after spending the the last half hour sprawling on the couch.
Looking at the linked picture… You ladies who lurk here, do yourselves a big favor and NEVER wear that style of glasses.
…
@Chris Nystrom, that’s a hilarious context for the Manchester bombing.
“Say it with me, girls, I’m a dangerous woman!”
“Aloha Snackbar!” *kaboom*
Hopefully Dunkirk will be good and worth supporting.
“When Superman began to fly, sob, I finally had someone I could look up to. Finally a man I could be. I spent hundreds of dollars dragging every male to the theatre so we could hold each other and cry because we finally had a role model. Yes, this is representation!” said……no….man….ever. Off to do the actual superpower women have-creating life. There are going to be a lot of these women on their death beds, alone and being tended by a robot, realizing they wasted their lives on cats, careers and adult tiaras.
Ok. That is bizarre. I wrote my comment before I read the comments and had the exact same thought as Elspeth.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4569438/sex-cult-Wonder-Woman-William-Moulton-Marston-mistress.html
It gets even better, the author of the Wonder Women comic was an Sex Fiend, Patriach who oppressed his wife and two mistresses and admits Wonder Women’s costume is based on his love of bondage. These fools turn from the Living God and worship illusions. So much for empowerment, even just as a fantasy.
@ Billy S:
The video was interesting, especially the part asking questions about how, if men are so terrible, they go tot be that way. Other than that, meh. Even the foolish way Chris Pine saved the day wasn’t lost on me. One should expect to suspend reality when entering a movie theater.
To be honest, I didn’t give much thought to the Amazon land and the implications because, again, no new ground was tilled here. Nothing that we haven’t seen 1000 times before. It just so happens that we are in a period where professional feminists and media are pushing hard to keep their imaginary battle raging.
They know full well that once you get past the higher education point, they have lost the war. Younger women (contrary to popular opinion here) are mostly not buying it and the ones who are stumbling along are doing so precisely because they have never been offered any alternative to the dominant narrative of the culture. No sooner than they get a clue, they bail on feminism.
Carlotta,
“When Superman began to fly, sob, I finally had someone I could look up to. Finally a man I could be. I spent hundreds of dollars dragging every male to the theatre
From these reactions, I am beginning to wonder if these twats know that the Wonder Woman character has existed for half a century…
The 1970s children cartoons were actually better at portraying her :
Elspeth,
No sooner than they get a clue, they bail on feminism.
You can’t be serious. Bailing on the word ‘feminism’ is not the same as changing one’s assumptions and expectations.
If young women were actually bailing on the ideology, the divorce rate and out-of-wedlock birth rate of women age 20-30 would be going DOWN.
Falling for this trap is tightly analogous to the erroneous belief that Republican women are against ‘feminism’…
Feminist porn: https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2017/06/06/feminist-porn-empowerment/101283776/
There’s a new F-word in the porn industry: feminist.
Last year, women accounted for 26% of all traffic worldwide for pornography site Pornhub. As viewership has increased, so has the desire for adult entertainment that emphasizes female pleasure and mutual respect in the bedroom. …
Porn made with feminist values “is about showing an authentic representation of human sexuality,” Lust says. “Mainstream porn is full of repetitive codes and tiring power tropes that are all about (female) genitalia and body parts, yet nothing about the woman. For the men who dominate the industry, pleasuring women normally entails rose petals and silk sheets. Oh no — women like sex just as dirty, kinky and exciting as men do. That’s a myth mainstream porn has set out for us and it’s completely untrue.”
With her XConfessions project, which she started in 2013, Lust creates short films based on erotic fantasies submitted anonymously by fans and followers on her site, featuring both heterosexual and lesbian partners.
I guess the cucky pastors will say that, because men won’t “man up,” women are now forced into actually enjoying porn.
@anon
Reading comprehension is ALSO not your strong suit, huh?
Stay classy low rent.
Carlotta,
I understood it completely. It is YOU who failed to understand that I was agreeing with you. By ‘these reactions’, I meant the feminist reactions.
Epic fail. Are you sure you are male?
I refuse to even watch the film or support anything the leftists produce. Period.
These people do have the adult ability to separate fact from fiction, yes?
Evidence in support of that assumption is mighty scarce.
Elspeth
Fair enough. The fact that she isn’t human (ergo, in no way relatable to the average woman) completely ruined the feminist angle as far as I was concerned.
That’s a practical point-of-view, but do many women think that pragmatically? For some time, I’ve been amused that the “female” lead in Ex Machina wasn’t even organic, let alone human and that that movie was described by some writers and commentators as “feminist” and about a woman “escaping her patriarchal male oppressors” and all that. It seems that even characters who simply resemble women can be feminist role models.
This guy gets it. All they’re doing is dropping labels. Change colors but not intent. That’s it. It’s your typical cunty behavior.
OF course. You don’t expect a bunch of pussy boys to call cunts out do you?
“Epic fail. Are you sure you are male?”
@Anon
Ok. That is too funny.
Now back to your comment, my bad and my apologies. I thought you meant my reaction. Carry on .
@Hank Flanders
That is a good point. First being a women was not good enough, then being a man was not good enough and now being an actual human is not good enough for feminists. It seems to be a pattern with them to never be happy with any solution until finally, they break with reality and the only true worth any woman can have is as a comic book non existent, non human….super model. It really just gets more and more ludacris. Like the womens marches.
“What are you marching for?”
“Equal rights!”
“You have more rights then men.”
“Abortion on demand!”
“Already the law.”
It goes on and on till she is wearing a pussy hat and screaming about how she grabs back. It is a circle of lunacy and sin and constant failure.
Clean your bathrooms and you won’t have time for that.
The difference between a feminist and a women appears to be sanity.
A blatantly posed picture outside an overhyped movie accompanies a farcical article that uses a laughable phrase like “…strange feeling of ferociousness.”
Lame
Finally, women have something to feel good about!
Elspeth,
He clearly did not really know the comic background, but I still thought his points had merit. Imagine the situation if all the sexes in the movie were reversed. That would not go over at all.
Those opposing the modern feminization of our culture don’t see all the underlying assumptions in many places.
Elspeth and Anon,
My ex-wife claimed to be anti-feminist, yet she is living out the feminist dream (for a short time) on her own, abandoning a very long marriage to do so.
Many church women are completely woven through with feminism now. Jezebel was a feminist after all….
@Dalrock, “stunted” facial expressions?
Huh?
Other than fellow members of their coven, these people appear shallow, narcissistic and posturing falsely to the vast majority of people.
Meh, kick the sexual politics aside, these are practical issues to me. They’re being sold a delusion. Girls and women are weaker than men in every physical measure, yet they’re fed delusions via SuperGrrl, Wonder Woman and cop movies where 90 pound perfect 10s routinely floor and cuff guys three times their weight. Then, the viewers take their new-found delusions into the world. YouTube is proof positive that they get their asses kicked squaring off against men. You’d think the movies and shows depicting women as “strong” would come with a disclaimer and notice not to try this at home.
@Jim
And if you didn’t read anything about feminism or an agenda beforehand, you wouldn’t even think about any of those things while watching it.
I think this is exactly how it’s done by the more savvy purveyors of modern feminism. As highlighted in the OP, visual storytelling and subliminal messaging. You don’t even think about any of those things while watching it. You saw the movie and didn’t think it was about feminism, Elspeth saw it and didn’t think it was about feminism. If hundreds of thousands of people see the movie and don’t think it’s about feminism…
Mission accomplished.
By chance, I was yesterday reading a precis of Kleist’s play Penthisilea which I imagine derives from Greek myth. In Penthisilea, the eponymous heroine, an Amazon, fights the toughest guy in the Greek Army Achilles. He beats her up really badly and she is unconscious for a while but when she awakes he leads her to believe that in fact she beat him – they fall in love. After a while he tells to her that he was not being truthful. I forget the ending, but the similarity to the Wonder Woman fantasy struck me as pertinent.
The idea that I would be physically afraid of any woman is something that has never occurred to me but I would never be so cavalier for my safety with any man.
@Splashman
Did you click on the link for the image? Something is very off for these women, especially the one in the foreground. It goes beyond the sense of childlike wonder I think the photographer was going for, and crashes all the way through to severely developmentally impaired. Perhaps instead of stunted you would prefer retarded.
One of the questions that gave me pause when creating the post is the possibility that the women in question aren’t merely retarded by their feminism, but actually are truly (traditionally/medically) mentally impaired, having been brought to the movie by an overseer as a special treat. Looking at their faces, I think this is a very strong possibility (although the Nasty Woman shirts make me lean the other way). But even if this is the case, why did the Times choose this photo to represent feminist empowerment? How is it that this photo best advanced the Times’ feminist agenda? How bad did the non mentally impaired women in the audience look?
Is no one talking about the bizarre choice for the director, Patty Jenkins? IMDB has her directing only one other non tv movie 14 years ago, “Monster.”
The story is:
“A dark tale based on the true story of Aileen Wuornos, one of America’s first female serial killers. Wuornos had a difficult and cruel childhood plagued by abuse and drug use in Michigan. She became a prostitute by the age of thirteen, the same year she became pregnant. She eventually moved to Florida where she began earning a living as a highway prostitute–servicing the desires of semi-truck drivers. The tale focuses on the nine month period between 1989 and 1990, during which Wuornos had a lesbian relationship with a woman named Selby. And during that very same time, she also began murdering her clientèle in order to get money without using sex. This turned the tables on a rather common phenomenon of female highway prostitutes being the victims of serial killers–instead Wuornos, herself, carried out the deeds of a cold-blooded killer. “
Nasty woman is as far from Wonder Woman as Pee Wee Herman is from Superman.
Vladimir Putin has interesting and true comments about women which you don’t hear in the western media. A couple of paragraphs so it’s a short read. Some manginas are up in arms in the comments section. 🙂 This article is a keeper
http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/06/putin-i-dont-take-days-off-because-im-not-a-woman/
women do tend to read Female Empowerment into everything … when they aren’t reading Rape Fantasies into them.
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is also often claimed to be a ‘feminist’ movie. which is an hilarious misreading of what’s happening on the screen, ie – all of the ‘feminist’ characters are either antagonists or make awful choices which destroy the lives of their friends and loved ones. the closest thing to a ‘feminist protagonist’ in the movie commits suicide to try to redeem the damage she’s done.
Fury Road was another which might appear feminist to someone without the attention span to follow the story arc. the only thing Furiosa ‘succeeds’ at in the entire movie is when she rips off Joe’s face. the shooting the arc light thing? that didn’t even stop the approach of the Bullet Farmer. Max still had to go kill all of those guys. and every other decision Furiosa made in the entire movie was RETARDED FAILBOAT and would have resulted in the rape / murder of both her and all of the wives had Max and Nux not been there to bail them out.
@Elspeth
I believe the crying is 100% fake news (the tears were either wholly imagined or willfully summoned) but of course people have visceral connections to artistic representations. That’s what art does. Superheroes communicate in archetypes; templates which inform, and are informed by, a particular worldview. Wonder Woman is a communication of a supposed woman warrior archetype which both informs women that maybe they can fight a man, and also misleads them away from female archetypes that are actually good and useful to women and society; mother or wife archetypes, for example.
In other words: You’ve conserved the Feminist message that women are just as capable warriors as men if we stipulate certain phony parameters. “It’s just another superhero.” Those phony parameters (For example that WW is not human) the mind will toss out because they’re phony and so leave the average 100 IQ viewer with the idea that it is possible that women could be just as capable warriors as men, don’tcha know. Gadot was even in the military, for real. Take that, men!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4579256/SARAH-VINE-d-wolf-whistle-m-50.html
This one is golden.
And, another one. EPL girl switches teams.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4579456/Elizabeth-Gilbert-partner-held-commitment-ceremony.html
Wonder Woman is a communication of a supposed woman warrior archetype which both informs women that maybe they can fight a man and also misleads them away from female archetypes that are actually good and useful to women and society; mother or wife archetypes, for example.
I have it on good comic book researched authority that WW grieves that she cannot be a mother. It’s another one of those things that made me question what the heck these delusional women are going on about. WW is usually the kind of woman they hate. A sexy woman in a corset and thigh-high boots, which most men desire wields a certain power even if she can’t lift more than 15 pounds.
These women took the fact that WW could lift a tank and dismissed everything they say they believe. They did this for no other reasons than it is convenient and feels good, much like the women in that first Daily Mail piece anonymous_ng linked to up there. Besides the common trope that you’ve come to expect from the Amazon story, there was nothing here that should have been considered grrrl power propaganda. I’ll reiterate why after I say this next bit.
In other words: You’ve conserved the Feminist message that women are just as capable warriors as men…
LOL. It’s been a while, Mr. Caldo, but you know better than that, But let’s pretend that you do believe that I believe that, so I can set the record straight: I harbor no delusions that any woman can ever be as capable a warrior as a man.
…if we stipulate certain phony parameters. “It’s just another superhero.” Those phony parameters (For example that WW is not human)
This phony parameter is what makes the whole thing a fantasy that no one is her right mind should take seriously. If a woman “smart enough” to write an article for the NYT can’t make this distinction, there is a far more serious mental delusion at play here than can be compared to someone being “hamstrung” with an average IQ.
If we’ve gotten to the point where women actually walk out of that theater thinking they can be anything like WW (from her beauty to her strength, to her otherworldliness), and I get that this is what the media is pushing for a narrative, things are worse than I thought.
And I already tend to be pretty pessimistic about the state of things.
@Elspeth
At some point in the future you’re recall that women, even Feminists, want to have it all. When they hate motherhood, it’s because motherhood interferes with some other desire. When they love motherhood, it’s because they are empowered to create life while directing a company in fabulous shoes. There is nothing that Feminists would deny a woman as long as it doesn’t seem limiting.
So what? The problem isn’t an appropriate level of pessimism. The question is: How do stories work, and what is that work?
I know you’ve heard those women who scoff at the Proverbs 31 Woman. After all, she doesn’t even have a name. She’s just a story. Are they wise for rightly recognizing that they will never be the Proverbs 31 Woman and so dismiss it, or are they foolish for under-appreciating her inspirational value as a goal towards which to work? Somewhere out there, a feminist has written:
“This phony parameter of old-yet-beautiful, rich, tireless, respected, well-married with great kids and always pleasant is what makes the whole “Proverbs 31″ thing a fantasy that no one is her right mind should take seriously. If a woman “smart enough” to write an article for the CBMW can’t make this distinction, there is a far more serious mental delusion at play here than can be compared to someone being “hamstrung” with an average IQ.
If we’ve gotten to the point where women actually read a chapter from a book thinking they can be anything like the Proverbs 31 Woman (from her beauty to her strength, to her submissiveness), and I get that this is what the patriarchy is pushing for a narrative, things are worse than I thought.”
What woman will actually live-up to the the Proverbs 31 Woman? None. That’s not the point of the 31st chapter of Proverbs. Not every facet of the Proverbs 31 Woman is even under her influence. The Proverbs 31 Woman is an archetype. She is supposed to inspire. She gives direction; even for women who are poor, or married to lazy men, or who have rebellious children, or struggle with submissiveness, or otherwise lack any (or all) of the qualities ascribed to the Proverbs 31 Woman.
Someone said “People don’t have ideas. Ideas have people.” The pervasiveness of kick-ass females in contemporary stories isn’t a ho-hum event. It is an evil which wars against other good archetypes for human souls.
So you’re saying that just as I view the Proverbs 31 woman as something to aspire to even if I can never fully arrive, these are women who look at WW the same way? My inability to place Hollywood/fictional/comic book archetypes into the same basket as Biblical archetypes hindered my ability to see it that way.
Because I have internalized a starkly different truth (namely, that my life is as well as it is largely due to the love and protection of excellent men throughout my life), WW didn’t register with me in the same way. It was just entertainment consisting of pure fantasy.
Repeated ingestion of this stuff as “empowering” by women with a competing truth probably would have a harder time resisting the priming these things can produce.I get it. I don’t like it, but I get it. I was projecting.
Touché.
@Cane Caldo
I’m not entirely sure what to make of it. It could be that women are following the (perceived) herd here, and either crying because they think they should or crying because of the power of suggestion. But given how frequent the claim is, and the way it is being made, I’m inclined to believe that it is a real emotional release in response to years of delusion crushed by painful reality. Finally their burning envy seems to be attainable. The idea that women aren’t just as tough as men really was just a lie after all, and this movie proves it!
The latest example I’ve seen is from the LA Times: Why I cried through the fight scenes in ‘Wonder Woman
Part of why I’m inclined to accept the latter hypothesis is that crying is so incongruous to the whole fierce/badass theme the same women are so excited about. The very absurdity of the contradiction makes me think it very likely is a genuine female emotional response. If it were rational, I’d give it a harder second look.
That’s NOT what this film was. I saw it, and I have no idea what the feminist empowerment hoopla is about. These women are all delusional, seeing what they wanted to believe was there. I reviewed it too, if you want the Cliff’s Notes version.
I haven’t seen it, but all my friends who did said the same thing: The creators bent over backwards to keep politics out of the film. There’s no Ghostbusters-style yougogurl moments. It’s just a comic book action movie with a stunning lead and a well-done antagonist.
All the feminist slobbering is self-generated.
@ anonymous_ng
Re: the first DailyMail link you attached @ 12:35 pm.
The article can be summarized as follows:
When women DON’T want male attention, it is to be admonished.
When women DO want male attention, it is to be forthcoming.
i.e. file this under the standard female narrative of ” ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, ME !!! ”
Do any of these ‘past-their-prime’ women regret the many ‘nuclear rejections’ they gave men of years gone by? Probably not.
What they regret is not having that power any longer.
They are invisible to men now.
A quotable quote from the article that hangs on is as follows:
“Young women HAVE it ALL, and don’t KNOW it.”
“Older women KNOW it ALL, but no longer HAVE it.”
Speaks for itself.
@Elspeth
Yes. After all: Her name is Wonder Woman; not Wonder Amazon.
@Dalrock
Good reference to the L.A. Times article. Maybe you’re right in the case of devoted, message-oriented, Feminists. If so, it’s not the tank-throwing itself. You picked the money quote from that article, but the rest of the sentence is important.
If Meredith Woerner cried, I think they were tears of joy that the makers of WW read the same “woman can do it too bible” as her; rather than enjoying WW vicariously, if you follow.
I don’t know. It’s complex. Maybe you’re right.
Elspeth,
Which iteration of Wonder Woman (or any other superhero for that matter)? The Golden Age WW was far different than the current one, with several steps in between.
Black Widow (Marvel/Avengers) is said to have also lamented no being able to have children, but she is still able to beat up men she never would in real life.
Comics has varied many times over the years. Even the idiot things of the 1970s and 1980s are nothing compared to the lunacy today. I am not quite a comic nerd, but I have collected them in the past and follow it occasionally. The SJW impact on comics is quite clear, and some even acknowledge it has harmed them, including the movies.
====
A general comment: The WW movie needed to do well since the previous Batman vs. Superman kind of flopped, after the previous Superman movie also alienated some fans. The franchise needs a strong lead into the upcoming Justice League movie, which may or may not be happening.
I think people are so starved for anything that even the tripe they are getting is better than nothing, or at least it seems so. The feminist message is woven into it so much that many like Elspeth don’t even see it. That was also true for the 2 recent Star Wars movies (which I have not seen either). (I am not sure what Elspeth thought of them.)
I have talked with Christians who just liked “the action,” without thinking about the underlying issues.
We all hated the last two Star Wars movies. The feminism was MUCH more in your face.
@Carlotta –
“It gets even better, the author of the Wonder Women comic was an Sex Fiend, Patriach who oppressed his wife and two mistresses and admits Wonder Women’s costume is based on his love of bondage. These fools turn from the Living God and worship illusions. So much for empowerment, even just as a fantasy.”
What power could facts ever have against the magical power of feelings?! These empowered women are “reclaiming” Wonder Woman and recreating her as their own febrile power fantasy. If they were to acknowledge the truth about W.M. Marston, they would only say it highlights how awesome she is, overcoming the oppression of her own creator (like a religious experience) to become the feminist Superwoman!
I think people are pushing the feminist angle to downplay the soft-porn aspect of WW. I haven’t seen the movie but remember how we saw Lynda Carter playing the role when I was at HS back in the 70’s. Quite a few boys liked the show back then whereas there were a few girls who faintly disliked it because they saw Lynda dressed up as WW as being a bit of a young man’s fantasy figure. The new movie is similar I imagine, plenty of super hero action with a strong dollop of soft-porn attraction to the young male demographic. Having WW fall in love with a normal man as well seems to me to be pandering to the young make audience. As I said to begin with, stressing the “female empowerment” angle just helps to negate the criticism that the film is just another about sex and violence. .
I just watched this movie and i gotta say I think this is a very well done assault on feminism. Step 1 give them some understated girl power red meat to set the stage and get their guards down. Step 2 make all the physical feats of wonder woman a metaphor for love and emotional strength. Step 3 let her final victory come from finally understanding what her man was trying to teach her the whole time.
Also they chose a pretty much nobody female director with a totally stalled career to be a place holder for marketing reasons (more girl power red meat)
I always find it interesting how women despise men and resent us for masculine sexuality, strength, power, authority and sense of justice, but then they make every effort to try to be like the men they despise.
When they attempt to put on those boots, they never quite fit right.
Men who are masculine are evil, oppressive monsters and toxic.
Women who are masculine are good, empowered heroes and refreshing.
Whatever happened to picking a lane and staying in it?
@Dalrock, of course I clicked the link. Regardless, “facial expressions so stunted” wouldn’t work for any picture. As you suggest, “facial expressions so retarded” would work (though it’s hardly PC), because the common association of that word is such that the reader would understand it to mean that the person looks like an idiot. “Facial expressions so stunted” does not work, because the common association of that word regards an object that has not grown or developed normally (e.g., a stunted tree, a stunted economy). So your phrase means “a facial expression that has not grown or developed normally.” Stunted intellects, those women certainly have. Stunted expressions, no.
Also they chose a pretty much nobody female director with a totally stalled career to be a place holder for marketing reasons (more girl power red meat)
Given how dry of original ideas Hollywood is and how badly they mangle recycled naterial so consistently, would it surprise anybody if Jenkins’s next film is Monster Woman, the story of a super heroine turned serial murderess?
Given both the nearly non-existent attention spans and memories of the general public, as well as their execrable taste in entertainment, such a movie would probably be a runaway blockbuster, reviving Jenkins’s moribund career and providing her with sufficient capital to make decades worth of the same sort of tripe.
This is all so weird. There are LITERALLY hundreds of movies about strong powerful kick butt women I do not know why suddenly Wonder Woman is the focus of all this energy. Apparently its a good movie. I planned to watch it but am getting ill of all the medias focus on it as a girl movie as something unique. You want a superhero movie featuring a girl? Lucy starring Scarlet Johnson’s. Or Ghost in Shell starring her. What about The Force Awakens (but was a terrible movie).
This must be the saturation point of feminists insanity. Since they have no sense of perspective every new movie is a revolution. Every female accomplishment will get played to death. Its both trivial and exhausting.
“Someone said ‘People don’t have ideas. Ideas have people’.” ~ Cane Caldo
Cane landed on a very important point. Comic books are like modern versions of ancient myths. What are Heracles, Bellerophon, Jason, Perseus and Theseus if not superheroes?
Those ancient myths transmitted ideas that shaped – and were shaped by – their cultures. Here’s a really terrible example of that.
You may have heard of the term “catamite”, which is a boy (often a slave) kept for homosexual practices. Often, these boys were emasculated before they reached puberty so they’d never develop manly features. The word “catamite” is a mispronunciation of the name Ganymede. Ganymede was Zeus’s cup bearer. He was a Trojan boy that was described as “beautiful”, with whom Zeus “fell in love”. Zeus took him to Olympus and made Ganymede an immortal, which meant he would never age beyond boyhood.
The Romans adopted those myths from the Greeks and practiced the same perversions. In fact, emperor Nero “married” his catamite, Sporus, and paraded him around as his “empress”.
Now, I don’t know if the Greeks made up that myth because they lusted after little boys, or if they lusted after little boys because of that myth, but clearly the two are related.
Myths transmit cultural values. That’s what they’re supposed to do. These film makers are well aware of what they’re doing, and they’re very open about it. As Andrew Fletcher stated:
“There are LITERALLY hundreds of movies about strong powerful kick butt women I do not know why suddenly Wonder Woman is the focus of all this energy.”
I think its just excellent marketing that doesnt let anyone throw a fit about it. This is speculation but maybe a lot of women hate feminism and this allows them to basically assert that with extemely plausible deniability. Feminist writers at Slate and palces like that clearly have no idea how to write about it. They got stymied.
@Oscar
great point.
This is why folks who go on about “well, she’s a super powered hero so OF COURSE she’ll be able to kick ass. its got nothing to do with feminism.” are missing the larger point of how these fictional archetypes and myths manipulate people’s perception of what is good and acceptable in society.
If I was creating good propaganda, or a personal “message” that I want to convince others of, I’m not going to glaze my art/rhetoric with obvious queues to convince you to join or accept my beliefs. That would be counterproductive. Rather, I would sprinkle certain aspects of my propaganda here and there in a manner that is aesthetically appealing to the viewer, very similar to the idea of “pushing the overton window”. Likewise, films such as WW do not need to blatantly shove feminism down your throat to be effective in spreading the feminist message. Show a woman doing a man’s job, with a little feminine “soft side” and that’s just enough to get women and moderates out to the show.
Also its important during the time of Wonder Woman to tirelessly point out, as others have done above, Wonder Woman is an archetype for a fantasy – the woman warrior. The truest archetype for women is always Eve – a mother who brought life into the world and served God.
Is there any irony in Mark Driscoll titling his new book “Who Do You Think You Are?”
All you need for “Finding Your True Identity in Christ” is to pick up an electronic copy by making a generous donation to his ministry.
https://markdriscoll.org/ea1706eb/
A thought about the comics: The Justice League membership is significantly male, even with all the efforts at female empowerment. A few tough women are members, but most are still male.
The strong woman meme can only push things so far. People still like male superheroes more.
I assume that the women are crying even though or perhaps because they know its is absurd. Consider last Saturday when the Media were forgetful that they have to pump a Female Empowerment Narrative: the only mention I heard of a woman was that one was stabbed a dozen times but I heard of the following death-defying bravery: one man in a pub was throwing chairs and anything he could lay his hands on at the terrorists and a Policeman who so we are told took on the three Machete wielding Muslims with nothing moire than his truncheon. He is recovering in hospital.
London carries on but not as before. I attended a concert at the Royal Festival Hall and they were checking peoples bags as they entered. Never seen that before. This had the advantage that in discouraging wanderers it was quiet inside and it did not look as it usually does like an airport terminal. They waved me through despite my desperation to reveal the contents of my bag. This was not a case of race or religious profiling as they guys on the door were black or brown. 😉
I have resumed carrying my little penknife in an inside pocket; haven’t needed to do that since I was at school.
For Pete’s sake, Gal Vodot markets tghe film by going on the Conan O’Brien show and showing him how to beat people up.
If you aren’t reading feminiam into this movie, you’re wrong. Do the math.
headcovering and headship
https://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=1054512
abusive marriage
https://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=1054529
@MtC
Word.
The description of the upcoming movie Professor Marston & the Wonder Women, supposedly the true story of Wonder Woman’s creator:
The unconventional life of Dr. William Marston, the Harvard psychologist and inventor who helped invent the modern lie detector test and created Wonder Woman in 1941. Marston was in a polyamorous relationship with his wife Elizabeth, a psychologist and inventor in her own right, and Olive Byrne, a former student who became an academic. This relationship was key to the creation of Wonder Woman, as Elizabeth and Olive’s feminist ideals were ingrained in the character from her creation. Marston died of skin cancer in 1947, but Elizabeth and Olive remained a couple and raised their and Marston’s children together. The film is said to focus on how Marston dealt with the controversy surrounding Wonder Woman’s creation.
“If you aren’t reading feminiam into this movie, you’re wrong. Do the math.”
Every post-1970 movie is feminist, so youre right in a platitudinous sense but wrong if you think there’s nothing diffrent about this movie.
Patrick,
If I understand you right, yeah.
Feminists vs. Feminists
When Will Wonder Woman Be a Fat, Femme Woman of Color?
http://msmagazine.com/blog/2017/06/05/will-wonder-woman-fat-femme-woman-color/
Hey, just saw this on Instapundit! Albany, NY law professor Stephen Clark is suing over woman-only screenings of WW!
http://nypost.com/2017/06/07/movie-theater-sued-for-women-only-wonder-woman-screenings/
“There was a vibrant argument happening on Facebook,” Clark told The Washington Post. “But when the theater responded to complaints, they were pretty snide about it and willing to mock anyone who had a complaint and that really struck me.”
The Albany Law School professor added, “There is also the fact that what they were doing is illegal.”
MarcusD says:
June 8, 2017 at 7:38 pm
headcovering and headship
abusive marriage
I don’t even have to read either article to know that The Usual Suspects[TM] at that place are equating the former with the latter.
I don’t know what this is, but it hits every stereotype with a sledge hammer.
The unconventional life of Dr. William Marston, the Harvard psychologist and inventor who helped invent the modern lie detector test and created Wonder Woman
Being responsible for Wonder Women is moral chancre enough, but being also partly responsible for the polygraph compounds that to a point bordering on unforgiveable. I shudder to think of the toasty accommodations Marston is “enjoying” in Hell’s deepest depths.
Contemplating this, the main thing to take away is that fanboys are the courtly lovers of fiction.
Any man’s help would be appreciated.
https://canecaldo.wordpress.com/2017/06/11/research-request-fighting-frontier-women/
feeriker @ June 11, 2017 at 3:38 pm:
“Being responsible for Wonder Women is moral chancre enough, but being also partly responsible for the polygraph compounds that to a point bordering on unforgiveable.”
What’s wrong with polygraph technology? Granted it isn’t very reliable but it still has uses within its limits.
Gunner Q: https://antipolygraph.org/
In general, not a lot of non-USA jurisdictions permit polygraph evidence into court as “evidence”:
Google it. I am sure Opus could enlighten us as to the credibility which it is afforded, on the other side of the Atlantic.
Pax Christi Vobiscum
Hillary Clinton compares herself to Wonder Woman
http://www.theamericanmirror.com/hillary-clinton-likens-wonder-woman/
Bonus material: Producer Elizabeth Banks –
“I am so proud that I get to raise my two boys to love women. I get to present an example of them of a working mom who loves what she does,” she said, according to the Hollywood Reporter. “We are creating culture. We are sending messages out to the world and those messages matter. Co-opting men and boys into that process is the only way that progress is going to happen.”
Bonus material: Producer Elizabeth Banks –
I mean not to beat a dead horse, but can it be any clearer that this was intended to be feminist messaging. I mean she comes out and SAYS it. It’s intended to co-opt men into being feminist allies by means of using traditional male material to send feminist messages. The fact that this was missed by so many posters in the thread who actually saw the film, in comparison to what the producer readily admits, only means she did it very damned effectively indeed.
This stuff is poison, folks. Poison.
Red Stars in the tiaras.
Instalanche!! This thread will have a second life…
But alas, Glenn Reynolds, like Stacey McCain, still bashes only lefty feminists. He does not link to the Dalrock articles that expose how much misandry there is in cuckservative circles. Even RS McCain is clueless about this, still believing that Republican women are ‘against feminism’…
They are still but purple pill….The real shocker is that cuckservatives hate husbands and fathers even more than bluehaired lefty twats do..
The best thing about this movie is how nice Wonder Woman was to all the men she worked with.
Speaking of that, almost every woman in anime is thin and attractive, except where she is intentionally ugly, and it is rare even then. It is funny to see fat women comment on anime they like, not saying a word about the inconsistency.
@BillyS
There’s an easy explanation for this: Anime is made by the Japanese. I’ve been to Japan: There are very few fat people in Japan. Everybody is looks better thin. Also, there are few unattractive females or males in cartoons or anime. The line drawing is too simplistic to display gradations of beauty.
I am not convinced that is the only reason Cane. I did see a very chubby character the other day and she was intentionally unattractive.
I am also not convinced that most people in Japan are really as thin as most anime characters, even the evil ones. I am not sure that simplified drawing is sufficient either, as many characters have plenty of detail, almost more with thinner bodies.
How fortunate for the feminists that WW will protect girls from FGM, etc., when the Muzzies take over. ROTFL.
I briefly went through a superhero fad as a kid—maybe six months of reading Superman comics before I gave up on them. They all have the same problem. They teach kids (or immature adults) that all their problems would be solved not by showing good sense and working hard but by possessing one or more superpowers.
T’aint so, and pretending it is won’t change matters.
Worst of all is what happens when that superpower is merely being a “nasty woman.” The only consequence of that is that people, both men and women, will go out of their way to avoid you. We all probably know someone like. In my entire life I’ve told two people I wanted to have nothing to do with them and both were women who were accusatory “nasty women.”
Anon says:
June 14, 2017 at 10:27 pm
“They are still but purple pill….The real shocker is that cuckservatives hate husbands and fathers even more than bluehaired lefty twats do.”
Not until Trump’s campaign and election did I figure this out. I supported Ted Cruz but as Trump went from strength-to-strength and finally started to run away with the Republican nomination I, as an adult, said: “OK, he’s our guy, it’s all about winning. Plus look at his wife, yowza, that’s says good things about him.”
Fast forward to after the election, Trump’s admin is extremely conservative, and alpha males like Ted Cruz have made their peace with Trump. It’s the cuckservative betas like Geraghty, Lowry, McCain, etc. and who refuse to fully support him due to envy and jealousy (traits inherent to weak betas).
It’s not that complicated: they hate Alpha Males like Trump because they know they are weak betas, and alphas get the hot girls and (in some cases) marry them, and they do not.
BillyS says:
June 15, 2017 at 1:30 am
Hey bro not trying to pick on you this morning but…
“I am also not convinced that most people in Japan are really as thin as most anime characters, even the evil ones.”
I have been to Japan many times. Obesity is rare there. The same is true in China and Korea. And the women tend to be more feminine as well, so Westerners like me find them attractive. However, wealth has given women in the East independence from men and their fathers, and Rollo’s point that hypergamy drives everything then kicks in. Feminism (really open hypergamy) is either spreading rapidly or already dominant in Asian countries.
Emperor Constantine,
It’s the cuckservative betas like Geraghty, Lowry, McCain, etc. and who refuse to fully support him due to envy and jealousy (traits inherent to weak betas).
Jim Gay-ratty is a complete mangina (he married a single mother). Lowry is a wuss, as evident from his face and writings.
The letdown is Stacy McCain, who bashes blue-haired twats daily, but still can’t figure out that ‘feminism’ is much beyond that. He cannot grasp that divorce laws are preventing family formation, that Republican women are NOT ‘against feminism’, as is commonly believed, etc..
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