Following the violence in Charlottesville last month, NBC News asked What is Antifa? What Is ‘Antifa’? Meet the Fascist-Fighting Coalition Dubbed the ‘Alt-Left’ by President:
They relish in punching Nazis. They protest in all black. And they’ve vowed to physically confront racists and extremists across the country.
But who exactly are the protesters that violently clashed with white nationalists in Charlottesville, Virginia?
NBC brought in Dana Fisher to explain that Antifa is a violent reaction to Trump’s hateful rhetoric:
Dana R. Fisher, a sociologist who has studied protest movements in the United States for decades, said she’s come to view Antifa protesters as a militant response to the rise in visibility of white nationalist organizations since Trump’s election.
“Violence begets violence,” she said. “One of these groups is coming out with this violent message of hate, and the other has responded with a violent, reactive message.”
But as the NBC article hints at, Antifa has a long history of using violence to silence anyone they disagree with. They are very much like Mao’s Red Guards, running amok with tacit government approval.
One of Antifa’s cherished symbols is a bloody picture of a black man kicking a white man in the head. The caption reads “Good night white pride”. The Tumblr site Antifa International explains the origin of the symbol.
May 9, 1998: The KKK, decide to hold a rally in Ann Arbor, MIchigan despite having their asses handed to them there two years earlier. The Ann Arbor city council obliges them, spending $137,000 of taxpayer money to accommodate their hatefest in the middle of town.
Anti-Racist Action, the Revolutionary Workers’ League, and the National Women’s Rights Organizing Committee all mobilize to confront the KKKlowns.
This photo of Harlon Jones, an Ann Arbor anti-racist showing a racist scumbag some Michigan hospitality, is legendary and is where the Good Night White Pride logo comes from.
The article closes explaining that Antifa learned a critical lesson from the incident. They learned that their role as a violent political militia was endorsed by the state (emphasis original):
The lessons of Ann Arbor on May 9, 1998 have repeated themselves in the years since: people standing together can take their streets back from racist scum; city officials and police are happy to spend tax dollars protecting racists and persecuting anti-racists; and most importantly, fighting hate is not a crime!
Antifa International offers more of the back-story in Good Night White Pride! An interview with Harlon Jones. Jones describes the moments leading up to him kicking the white man in the head. Jones was frustrated that the group he was with was merely chanting anti racist slogans. He wanted action, and he soon found his opportunity:
People are standing around. And I’m like “where’s the action?” And people are trying to figure out where the KKK are at.
Then all of a sudden, I saw people running in the other direction, so I ran that way and there’s like five people chasing the guy you see in the picture, his friend, and one of their girlfriends. One of them had been approached and asked if they were KKK and he said yes. So we were kinda chasing them and the smaller guy and his girl got away but the other, bigger guy – it just felt like everybody backed up for one millisecond and I just came in and kicked him.
Notice that at best he heard a rumor that the white man he kicked supported the KKK. But given his description of how quickly it all unfolded, even this seems incredibly unlikely.
Yet this wasn’t the end of Jone’s action for the day. It wasn’t even the highlight of his day, which was when police ran away after the Antifa mob started throwing rocks at them:
But to me that was a small incidental part of the day…
…There was a rock garden across the street. Everybody just went over there and grabbed rocks and hurled them at the cops. It was the best scene I’ve ever seen in my life – the cops retreating! I swear to God, I’ve never seen anything more fulfilling than the cops running away like that.
The next day, the photo of Jones kicking the white man in the head was on the cover of the local newspaper. Jones was at first afraid he would be arrested, as the local police knew who he was. But Jones explains that the police he had thrown rocks at the day before had no interest in arresting him:
..all the police used to come in the store every day and they all knew me. They knew that was me, everyone knew it was me! And the crazy part about that was that they were so scared to prosecute me and have all this negative press on the university itself, they didn’t even pursue me. Not at all.
AI: That’s weird, because the cops went after people pretty hard after the fact.
HJ: But they saw me on a daily basis and didn’t pursue me. You gotta understand, at the time the university had a real problem with race relations and I feel like arresting me was a war they didn’t want to fight. I was literally the easiest person to find and they did nothing.
Part of the reason Antifa is given free rein to “punch nazis” is because they are an arm of the left, and therefore the left has no interest in stifling them. NBC News brought in Professor Mark Bray to explain why Antifa and their long history of functioning as a political militia is ethical. Bray explained that the important thing is that Antifa doesn’t shut down Democratic party affiliated groups. From Antifa Violence Is Ethical? This Author Explains Why:
If you establish that so-called fascist speech is illegitimate, then who decides who will be targeted as fascist? Can’t it lead more mainstream politics to end up being targeted?
…there is a certain political lens that — agree or disagree with the lens — there is an element of continuity in terms of the types of groups targeted. I don’t know of any Democratic party events that have been ‘no platformed’ (shut down) by anti-fascists. So there is a political lens, people will quibble about what the lens is, who designs the lens, but I don’t think the slippery slope is actually, in practice, nearly as much of a concern as people imagine it would be.
But the other reason Antifa has been given free rein is that despite the constant propaganda, the right has no sympathy for Klansman and Nazis, or anyone merely accused of being one. The man Jones kicked:
- Was white.
- Had a suspicious haircut.
- Was rumored to be a Klansman.
- Was being chased by the mob.
This was enough for Jones, and moreover enough for everyone else. The right and the police looked the other way and the left celebrated him as a hero:
AI: How did other people react to the photo?
HJ: I mean, everybody loves me, you know? To this day, I have friends that are so proud of that whole situation that they have me come over and tell the story to their kids at dinner, just so they know that they don’t have to be scared to go out there and do something.
Punch a nazi! Hey, you kind of look like a nazi…
The problem for the right is that looking like a nazi is a very flexible standard, and the left is using a very old tactic of dehumanizing their adversaries to justify a wide range of political persecution. It isn’t just bald white men in the proximity of a Klan rally that have to worry. To Antifa, Trump supporters look like nazis. To Charlie Hebdo, the people of Houston look like nazis.
“God Exists! He Drowned All the Neo-Nazis of Texas,” the weekly mag’s cover screams.
An illustration of half-submerged swastika flags and arms giving the Nazi salute accompanies the headline.
This standard is so flexible that literally anyone can now be labeled a nazi, and therefore the subject of the pogrom. Houston has a black mayor, but since the left hates the way Texans think on a number of issues they are deemed nazis. When the citizens of Houston suffer and die, the left praises God!
Social Justice Warrior technology companies are also joining in on the pogrom. Just this week Google successfully pressured The Liberty Conservative to remove an article Google disagreed with (H/T Vox):
Despite this necessary surrender, The Liberty Conservative writer remained optimistic. “We look forward to the day where rival ad platforms who respect the intellectual freedom of their customers can outcompete Google, but those days have not arrived yet,” he wrote. “These tech companies have us all by the short hairs, and post-Charlottesville, they are all working in unison to enforce the Orwellian nightmare. Nobody is safe.”
This is all part of a coordinated attack from the left on everyone they deem not sufficiently enthusiastic with the party line. Antifa, Google, and Charlie Hebdo are not alone. They are part of a massive machine. Groups like SLPC are contributing by publishing lists of enemies that need to be taught a lesson, and organizations like CNN and GuideStar then get the word out:
The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) is a cash cow that uses its coffers to slander mainstream conservative and Christian organizations as “hate groups.” The SPLC began by tracking real hate groups like the Ku Klux Klan and black nationalist groups, but later it added mainstream groups to its list.
…
CNN broadcast the SPLC’s “hate map” on its website and Twitter account this month (with the FRC still marked on the map). In June, the charity navigation website GuideStar adopted the SPLC “hate group” list, marking each profile of the targeted organizations as a “hate group.” ABC and NBC parroted the SPLC’s “hate group” label against Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) last month.
Punishing the wicked.
This is a religious war to the left, and anyone who isn’t radical enough is wicked, and needs to be punished:
First they came for Daily Stormer. Then they came for The Liberty Conservative. Then they came for the Family Research Council. LGBT activists speak openly about “punishing the wicked,” by which they mean anyone who refuses to take part in a same-sex wedding.
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I wish I could give proper credit, but I read it and can’t remember where.
Antifa is the American Taliban.
The problem for the right is that looking like a nazi is a very flexible standard, and the left is using a very old tactic of dehumanizing their adversaries to justify a wide range of political persecution.
It’s worse than this. The problem for the right is as usual they have conceded to the frame work of the left. Where is it written that communists/fascists (Antifa) get to kick Nazi’s (also fascists) in the head? Even if the victims of Antifa really are Nazi’s, what moral standard permits street violence towards them in a country supposedly governed by rule of law?
Remember that antifa and Nazis are BOTH left-wing.
Anything that is not small government/free market is left wing.
https://anarchistnotebook.wordpress.com/2017/08/31/nazi-is-the-new-outlaw/
“Under English common law, a man who was declared an outlaw had no rights. The pronouncement caput gerat lupinum – “may he wear a wolfish head” – meant he was to be treated like a wolf in the wild. They were persona non grata. Anyone could take from them and it was not theft. Anyone who found them could kill them and it would not be considered murder. It was a form of political and social death.
We are seeing this phenomenon, in which a society strips a person of their rights and membership in the community, play out today.
Except they don’t call them “outlaws.” They call them “Nazis” or “white supremacists.” But the intent, the actual meaning of those words and the purpose for using them, is the same.”
OT for this article (but not this blog).
I wanted some of the more grounded and realistic commenters that reside here to comment on two recent Heartiste articles :
Article #1) https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2017/08/28/porn-lowers-mens-real-life-standards/
The article is about how porn is lowering male libido (by actually lowering their standards or something like that).
Heartiste turned into a tradcon so slowly I didn’t notice. So what if porn lowers male demand for real women? How about the pressure it creates on real women to improve? If porn substitutes some women out, that is no different than democracy turning the government into a giant mechanism to transfer money from men to women, rendering 80% of men without anything that women need or want anymore? Male loss of MMV is far more damaging to society than female loss of MMV and SMV..
Article #2) https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2017/08/31/a-test-of-your-game-sudden-impact/
The story is about how a woman misbehaved and poured her drink on the man’s head. The man slapped her, which aroused her, and they then proceeded to have sex.
So this is quite believable, but the risk is too high. If you slap a woman, dependent on context and her inherent attraction to you, she could call the police and get your life ruined for sexual assault. Or she could get very aroused. At any rate, no man should have slapping a woman as a component of his game, even if it may often work, as the risk is too high.
The secondary thought is how all these subjective laws about ‘violence against women’, despite the fact that certain violence is very attractive to women, is ridiculously unfair, and does not fit into the due process model at all. The fact that women can unilaterially decide which violence they like and which they don’t, and can change it retroactively, is absurd. This is another reason that artificial intelligence is going to be a disaster for women, as all these ever-changing nebulosities will keep getting exposed and worked around by decision-making AIs, without seeking approval at each step.
Thoughts on both?
@Dalrock, JDG & Anon
It’s even worse than JDG says. The movement of which Antifa, commies, and Democrats both belong isn’t anymore essentially Left than its opponents are Nazis. The essence of the movement to which these groups belong–what they have in common–is a hatred of three things:
1) Christianity
2) Men
3) Whites
The order of hatred depends on with which faction of the movement one deals, but the three are essential. For example: Feminism hates men first, then Christianity, then whites. Black Lives Matter orders it Whites, Christianity, then men, I think. Sometimes, as in the case of Antifa, more than one plank is of equal weight. Antifa hates America as a whole because it recognizes that America is fundamentally a work of white Christian men.
A Facebook “friend” effectively branded me a Nazi sympathizer because I voted for Trump and haven’t jumped on the hate bandwagon.
Watch now for signers of The Nashville Statement to be antifa’d (sorry for verbing the noun) in the near future. Enemies of the people, and all that.
Antifa is a wing of the German Communist Party. They are literal not figurative Red Guards.
Apparently Cauput Gerat Lupinum originated in Ancient Rome as a term for those who had been driven from the city. The concept was widely used during the Middle Ages when the logistics of long term imprisonment and fugitive pursuit were impractical. It dictated a declared criminal was no longer protected by the law.
Following that, Hostis humani generis (“An enemy to all mankind”) originated in British Common Law. Transporting pirates to Courts of Law was impractical back in the day, so the British enacted legislation that pirates were considered enemies of all mankind. This meant that they could be tried and executed by whoever captured them.
In both examples those in authority declared who were the enemies. How is it that common street thugs get to dictate the rule of law? This is how: Those who are in positions of authority (and who claim to oppose the ideology spouted by the street thugs) accepted the false premises from the “left” and conceded what little moral high ground they had not yet given away. In effect the battle was lost before it began, as usual.
Anon, I should have specified when I use “right” vs”left” I’m not referring to red vs blue or repubs vs dems but rather autonomous vs totalitarian.
They always pooh-pooh the “slippery slope argument”, and yet that’s all we ever see, e.g. first it’s “legalize” gay marriage, then you have to supply them with goods regardless of your own beliefs, and now it’s practically “mandatory attendance or be ostracized!” (everyone must wear their uniforms!). The only positive is they tend to devour their own “allies” as quickly as they attack the “NotSees!”.
“Anti-fa”. Funded by George Soros, who also funds BLM, Occupy Wall St., These people do not even know what facism is. It is a combination of state and corporate power. Which we are under in the west. The term Nazi (correct me if wrong) was used to describe Bavarian country folk. Hitler and his ilk hated the term and wanted to be referred to as National Socialists. Former Hitler youth and older Germans said the party was a left wing party.
Cane Caldo says:
September 1, 2017 at 1:23 pm
The essence of the movement to which these groups belong–what they have in common–is a hatred of three things:
1) Christianity
2) Men
3) Whites
Yes, and a hatred of God Himself. They are lovers of death.
Proverbs 8:36
“But he who sins against me injures himself; All those who hate me love death.”
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They always pooh-pooh the “slippery slope argument”
But cuckservatives love the slippery slope. It is how they pretend they are in opposition, while actually being allies.
@JDG
No. It’s not autonomous vs. totalitarian, nor is it globalists vs. nationalists, nor is it politically correct speech vs. free speech. They are not FOR anything in particular. They exist to be AGAINST things. Specifically, they are against
1) Christianity
2) Men
3) Whites
Some are fine–and even for–capitalism in China, India, wherever–as long as the benefits are not for Christian white men. They love to welcome Muslim mid-easterners, but the Christian mid-easterners are served right to be killed and exiled. There is no rhyme or reason to these affiliated groups except what they are against.
This is progress, I suppose, if they’ve tired of bureaucratic oppression and want to give us faces to hit. Methinks a few alt-Righters have been frustrated only by the lack of physical targets.
Similarly, the Internet crackdown will backfire severely. Hello, DarkNet! I don’t see you yet but I know you’re out there. These foolish parasites don’t realize, we built it all the first time and can build it again.
And meanwhile, Tradcons respond by preparing for war against North Korea. Who’s the real national security threat here? The butchers in our streets running free with local gov’t’s permission, or Baby Kim whose life is forfeit in a mushroom cloud if he actually tries anything? Join the Republican Party, live in fear of being called bad names and master the art of being useless!
…
Hmm @ 1:24 pm:
“Watch now for signers of The Nashville Statement to be antifa’d (sorry for verbing the noun) in the near future.”
Nah, they loaded it with “God loves you” and “It’s okay you’re like that”. Sensible precautions for those who choose not to suffer for Christ.
…
Anon @ 1:10 pm:
“Heartiste turned into a tradcon so slowly I didn’t notice. So what if porn lowers male demand for real women?”
That’s why I used porn, because I wanted my desire for a woman to go away at least briefly. (Not an excuse for sin.) Remember Heartiste is a gourmand at the biggest pussy buffet since ancient Rome. Of course he doesn’t approve of other men using inferior substitutes to limit the consequences of their sex drive.
“No, Monsieur! Do not eat zat mac & cheese MRE! Ze London Broil with shrimp, it is full of wonderful tastes! And if you get a disease, it is probably treatable!”
We keep spending and meddling with low level garbage, and blaming these “groups”, instead of identifying who’s behind them. And yes, this goes beyond Catholic Knight of Malta secret society member of the Papacy, George Soros. All roads lead to Rome. But nevermind, let’s no be hateful, and blame the “left”, becasue the “left” is the master mind of all problems.
@Anon
Fascism is hardly left-wing. In fact, the “economic” paradigm of left-wing/right-wing comes from an entirely modernist perspective born out of the post WW2 period. When the term “right wing” was composed, it referred to the Monarchists who sat on the right side of the French parliament as opposed to the Republicans on the left. Both sides were admittedly socialist in that they believed in limitations on capital transactions and the nationalization of critical industries (war at the very least, along with public health and other things in which the servants of order had a genuine stake). Perhaps early National Socialist rhetoric was designed to sound similar to contemporary Marxist economic rhetoric in appealing to workers, but Trump himself made his appeal to workers rather than capitalism. It’s comical to refer to parties which defined themselves in opposition to communism, valued tradition, criminalized homosexuality, enshrined the family, and held order as their guiding virtue as “left wing” (despite whatever else was done in the war period), and the educated will chortle at this notion. Please crack open a book older than Rothbard if you want an actual understanding of right wing and left wing.
@Anon
Most of them aren’t pretending, per se. They just don’t accept what they actually see. They are trained to look for ideological underpinnings and try to perceive the “end game”. There aren’t any. It’s just envy and hatred. The average public educated American refuses to believe that and so they theorize imaginary ideologies and end games for BLM, Antifa, Feminists, and so forth.
Envy and hate aren’t ideological points. They are of the spiritual realm. It’s a spiritual war; not an ideological war, nor an ethnic war.
@ Cane
Leftists hate Christianity more than anything else, but they hate non-whites who oppose the Left even more than they hate whites.
As Dalrock rightly pointed out, this is a religious war for the Left, and the one thing a religious zealot hates more than anything else is an apostate. Leftists believe that non-whites inherently belong to the Left. They view Non-whites who oppose the Left much like Muslims view former Muslims who leave Islam.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/08/25/a-trump-supporter-was-sucker-punched-by-a-counterprotester-why-isnt-it-a-hate-crime/?utm_term=.d4a70772719d
A Facebook “friend”
Facebook? What’s that?
@Oscar
Believe what your lying eyes tell you: A black woman berated a black man for being on the side of whites; not for being on the Right. She has no idea what his ideology/worldview is. All she knows is that he is black. Leftism has nothing to do with this movement.
They don’t know or care what Left means.
They don’t know or care what Nazi means.
They don’t know or care what Globalism means.
They don’t know or care what Right means.
They don’t know or care what Fascist means.
They don’t know or care what Nationalism means.
They don’t know or care what Communist means.
The words, to them, contain no meaning whatsoever. Those things are just words that dead white oppressors made up to separate the real people of color from each other and their belongings. They appropriate and use these terms as various forms of subversive weaponry: dog whistles, cloaks, and diversions.
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Antifa is the terrorist thug arm of the political left and the statists.
Hitler had his brown shirts
Mao had his red guards
Obama/Clinton/Soros/DNC/etc. have these guys.
Yes, they operate with the implicit approval of liberals in government and the police. Conservatives are too cowardly to deal with them.
Apart from a miracle, the West is utterly doomed.
My hope is in Christ alone!
remember when everyone was all “je suis Charlie Hebdo”?
yeah?
fuck Charlie Hebdo. i hope Mohammedans murder them all.
I forgot to add something.
Like the brown shirts, the red guards, and everyone else who opposes the Lord Jesus Christ, Antifa will ultimately be utterly doomed to the lake of fire.
Still, many decent people will suffer and die in the meantime.
We American Christians will almost certainly face severe persecution (probably Pol Pot style).
We must hold fast to faith in Christ. He is glorified when His people suffer for righteousness. Evil men opposed Him, and will certainly oppose us as well.
All who trust in Christ will ultimately prevail at the return of the King.
Come Lord Jesus! Come!
The more they promote antifa the more likely Trump is to win reelection.
isn’t anymore essentially Left
yes, it is. practically everything the Left hates, they were told to hate *by Marx* in the Manifesto.
if you haven’t read the Manifesto, you need to. Marx declares war on marriage ( because Bourgeois ), advocates making children the property of the State ( so they can’t be reared Bourgeois ) and universal Democracy and compulsory education.
anyone with money is not Proletarian.
and Marx tells the Proletariat to genocide the Bourgeois. this is why American Leftists so much prefer the importation of 3rd worlders over their own countrymen.
a – as Marxists, their primary allegiance is to the Proletariat. and lo, there is none more Proletarian than someone making <$1,000 per annum
b – if you object to allegiance to Proletarians, you have self identified as someone the Marxist intends to liquidate, due to your false Bourgeois consciousness.
and this genocide has been the overt goal of all Marxists since 1848.
Dalrock,
Like all of their work the Charlie Hedbo article was satire. They are shining a light on the ridiculousness.
The biggest problem is the right agrees with all this. You have Romney giving Antifa moral high ground because some dumb Neo-Nazis snuck into a rally about something else. You have mayors and governors conspiring to allow violence and nobody bats an eye.
And as this article points out anyone to the “right” of them is ready for a beating. People will soon learn in blue jurisdictions they have no rights, and in red jurisdictions the law is followed….until everyone gets sick of that. Then it will be ugly.
The enemy of my enemy is my enemy’s enemy. No more. No less.
Bart @ 3:07 pm:
“Apart from a miracle, the West is utterly doomed.”
Hardly. The miracle is they’ve gotten away with as much as they have, for as long as they have. God had to check out of Planet Earth entirely for this to happen and that won’t stay true for long.
Leftist parasites think modern society has always existed and whoever controls it controls the world. That’s why they think pushing us out of the warren is a death sentence. They’re always “Google won’t allow Stormfront to operate anymore! We win!” and never “What if Stormfront builds a newer, better Internet because we forced them to?” It literally does not occur to them that we men can make something NEW. That we CAN go our own way.
Soon they’ll be “Either the Dindus kill him or we enslave him for being violent! He has no hope!” followed by “It’s Batman! Run!”
@ Cane
“Believe what your lying eyes tell you: A black woman berated a black man for being on the side of whites; not for being on the Right.”
And Richard Losey (a white dude, as far as I can tell) punched RC Maxwell (a black dude wearing a MAGA hat). I’ve been on the receiving end of Leftist hatred enough times to know what I’m talking about. And I’ve observed how Leftists treat their non-white opponents enough times that, yes, I do believe my lying eyes.
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ANTIFA = Anti-First-Amendment Terrorists…
@Oscar
Let me try this a different way: What did that black woman know about that black cop’s ideology? Nothing. She assumed that his identity as a black man should have precedence over his identity as a cop.
It is a mistake to think that all the “street soldiers” of Antifa et al know for what they’re fighting. And we shouldn’t assume that they rank the three things (Whites, Christianity, Men) I posited equally. An anti-white white man can punch a black man (or vice versa) as a race traitor because to them race, paganism, and matriarchy are The Cause. Those are not The Cause to me. That doesn’t matter to them, and it doesn’t stop other whites from being attacked on the basis of race.
Regardless: Leftism is not their Cause. Globalism isn’t their cause. Anti-fascism and anti-naziism isn’t their cause. Any effort put into combating those ideologies is mis-spent and wasted on a diversion. Making common cause with others who purport to be on my side because they’re white, or because they are capitalist, or because they believe in free speech, are also distractions and not actually allies. That’s what I would like you and others to understand today.
Ironically, a lot of blacks look better with shaved heads
@Adam
That is an interesting take. If I understand you correctly, you are saying Hebdo cartoon is mocking the left for making political hay out of the carnage. Essentially, you are arguing that Hebdo is using a satirical cartoon to mock the satirical cartoon of Politico’s Matt Wuerker. Is that right? I haven’t seen this argument made in the press, but it is an interesting one.
Off topic
@ Cane
“Leftism is not their Cause. Globalism isn’t their cause. Anti-fascism and anti-naziism isn’t their cause. Any effort put into combating those ideologies is mis-spent and wasted on a diversion. Making common cause with others who purport to be on my side because they’re white, or because they are capitalist, or because they believe in free speech, are also distractions and not actually allies. That’s what I would like you and others to understand today.”
I understand your point now.
@Dalrock
That is the way that I too had understood the Hebdo cartoon – as parody. It would not be funny otherwise!
Rugby11
Certainly a great video, and I’ve appreciated Gary Wilson YBOP for sometime.
Very helpful, BUT TOTALLY OFF TOPIC.
Still for anyone using porn, please stop. Porn enslaves, and Christ wants us to be free men.
Like all of their work the Charlie Hedbo article was satire. They are shining a light on the ridiculousness.
From what I know of the publication, I am at least 75% certain that this is correct. They did have the courage to call out Islam (and paid a heavy price for it), after all.
They exist to be AGAINST things. Specifically, they are against
1) Christianity
2) Men
3) Whites
This does seem to be a theme, despite many of that mob being in fact white, or men, or even white men. There are some pieces missing here, I can’t finish the puzzle. They can’t all be sociopaths. Or can they?
Fascism is hardly left-wing. In fact, the “economic” paradigm of left-wing/right-wing comes from an entirely modernist perspective born out of the post WW2 period.
That is incorrect. Mussolini considered himself left-wing. Dinesh D’Souza explains why over here :
Plus, Nazi Germany really was left-wing. ‘Nazi’ stands for ‘Nationalist-Socialist’ after all…
Bart
According to the SPLC, et al, anyone who denies the gay/tranny agenda is a hater. If you say that someone born with a penis is always a man, then you are a hater.
Curiously, while the SPLC lists several Christian groups as haters for denying the gay/tranny agenda, I don’t see any Jewish or Muslim groups listed as haters, though some of them surely also deny the gay agenda. I wonder if that will change in the future?
Well, the JDL is listed as a hate group. But not for denying the gay agenda.
The most important thing to understand as the world goes crazy is that God is still in charge and Judgement Day is coming. You, me, and Anitfa will all stand before God and give an account. Those who are not in Christ will face eternal condemnation. If we don’t understand that God is the ultimate judge, we can never respond properly to these folks.
@Lost Patrol:
The best way to frame the issue: Why do sluts add more & more tattoos?
Answer: because they’re desecrating their flesh to slake the evil that’s within them.
It’s the evil in their Souls being brought out & channeled. It’s a way to appease the roaring demons that oppress them. This is why they all look so terrible in the mugshots. They’re tormented people.
Thus, they attack the defenders of Christianity in the West: White Men. The actual goal is to completely drive Christians out of the public sphere, to then kill them all. Because that’s what Evil is *always* trying to do.
This is also why it’s important to understand that the Churches were the first to be converged, and that was 200 years ago that it started in earnest. All we’re seeing is another aspect of it crop out.
But pray deeply that Trump succeeds at his plans, as the “problem” can be easily dealt with. However, the solutions that come next include “rivers of blood”. But we always have Hope, for we have the Lord.
@Dalrock,
Tim Newman has a good explanation of how Charlie Hedbo operates in this specific instance, (he also lives in Paris so has a good understanding of the French mentality.)
http://www.desertsun.co.uk/blog/?p=5408
The results of one of the leftist radical movements how it got established:
Comparable and even worse than the Nazi movement:
Looking Glass: Why do sluts add more & more tattoos?
Actress Lena Headey (Queen Cersei on Game of Thrones) is heavily covered with tattoos. Her entire back, behind her ear, on her feet, inside and around both arms, which she proudly displays on TV talk shows.
She’s said that she gets tattoos because she finds them calming.
That’s her word for it. Tattoos are calming.
She’s divorced once, and has another child with a man she’s unmarried to.
From what I read in the tabloids, she really did a number on her first husband, an aspiring rock musician.
Hubby was living in Ireland. Headey was in Los Angeles, and convinced her husband to uproot and move to L.A. They married in 2007. She had a son with him in 2010, about when she got onto Game of Thrones. Being suddenly rich and famous, she filed for divorce the next year.
She moved back to Britain with their son (where she now lives). Her husband fought it as best he could, saying they had an agreement that she would stay in L.A. so they could raise their son together, But he has no money, no fame, and, being a man, no legal rights.
Headey said he was welcome to visit their son, in Britain.
Lena Headey markets herself as an amazingly compassionate women, deeply caring about migrants, refugees, and gay and transgender people. But her personal life reveals that she’s a deeply selfish, narcissistic woman.
@RPL:
Yup. Rather than tattoos being “Witchcraft”, they’ve always been a sign of the demons. One can actually see the DisInformation added to “witchcraft” for Moderns to see how they hid this information.
The combination of blog and topic reminds me of an article I saw yesterday:
A Liberal Definition of the Alt-Left
http://archive.is/5csxJ (https://medium.com/@KeriSmith/a-liberal-definition-of-the-alt-left-72ce53cad35c)
Not sure if this Antifa or whatever, understand history or not. They beat up a teenager in the streets, smaller size and outnumbered, and they think those are the real nazis. Last time the nazi and the opposition clashed for real, it didn’t end very well for the other side. The only thing this idiots do best is alienate people away and do damage to God given right of proprieties of others. They are not fooling the opposition, they are not fooling neutrals, so who are they fooling other than themselves?
It’s scary though that they think punching anyone is ethical. It seems right that they do hate God or don’t fear God, because in their narcissism they each are God!
As Cane has pointed out here and on his follow post today–and I try to do with much less success– one of the best ways to boil down these distinctions is they cannot articulate or describe an end state that does not involve violence, relocation, prison camps, redistribution etc.
I can, and most Christians can too.
It’s all they have. “We hate and are against _______.”
Just remember, if it’s okay to hit and kill Nazis, it’s okay for Nazis to hit and kill you. The police should step aside and let the two groups duke it out.
The fact that Houston is a largely Democrat city must have escaped Charlie Hedbo. I’ll be standing far back when France gets turned muslim, same with sweden. They deserve every terrorist calamity that can befall them, in spades.
Someone posted this on FB. Unfortunately, it only had a few likes. I hasn’t gone viral (at least in my circles) like the sanctimonious “Yes, I’m condemning the nazis (no mention of Antifa) at Charlotsville, too” posts, but I was glad to see it:
“Let this sink in for a minute…..Hundreds and hundreds of small boats pulled by countless pickups and SUVs from across the South are headed for Houston. Almost all of them driven by men. They’re using their own property, sacrificing their own time, spending their own money, and risking their own lives for one reason: to help total strangers in desperate need.
Most of them are by themselves. Most are dressed like the redneck duck hunters and bass fisherman they are. Many are veterans. Most are wearing well-used gimme-hats, t-shirts, and jeans; and there’s a preponderance of camo. Most are probably gun owners, and most probably voted for Trump.
These are the people the Left loves to hate, the ones Maddow mocks. The ones Maher and Olbermann just *know* they’re so much better than.
These are The Quiet Ones. They don’t wear masks and tear down statues. They don’t, as a rule, march and demonstrate. And most have probably never been in a Whole Foods.
But they’ll spend the next several days wading in cold, dirty water; dodging gators and water moccasins and fire ants; eating whatever meager rations are available; and sleeping wherever they can in dirty, damp clothes. Their reward is the tears and the hugs and the smiles from the terrified people they help. They’ll deliver one boatload, and then go back for more.
When disaster strikes, it’s what men do. Real men. Heroic men. American men. And then they’ll knock back a few shots, or a few beers with like-minded men they’ve never met before, and talk about fish, or ten-point bucks, or the benefits of hollow-point ammo, or their F-150.
And the next time they hear someone talk about “the patriarchy”, or “male privilege”, they’ll snort, turn off the TV and go to bed.
In the meantime, they’ll likely be up again before dawn. To do it again. Until the helpless are rescued. And the work’s done.
They’re unlikely to be reimbursed. There won’t be medals. They won’t care. They’re heroes. And it’s what they do.”
“Why do sluts add more & more tattoos?”
Here’s an interesting article I read on the subject many years ago. It was written when tats and body-piercing were starting to become more popular and mainstream:
https://chalcedon.edu/magazine/tattoo-you
J. Radclyffe says: September 1, 2017 at 2:30 pm
Fascism is hardly left-wing. In fact, the “economic” paradigm of left-wing/right-wing comes from an entirely modernist perspective born out of the post WW2 period.
but Fascism predates that, with the Manifesto having been printed immediately post WW1 in 1919 and Mussolini took power in 1922.
so your position is that Fascism … wasn’t anything from 1919 to ~1950? or perhaps was Left then but now is Right?
but even if i grant you THAT idiotic notion, your assertion is STILL based entirely in bottomless ignorance. German National Socialism not only predates Fascism, German National Socialism existed before Marx was born. and German National Socialism is the “True” Socialism.
how do i know this? because it is a citation of fact that Marx makes *himself* in the Communist Manifesto.
https://2m2l2d2d.blogspot.com/2017/08/what-if-i-told-you-that-german-national.html
so, everyone who tells you that Hitler got his ideas from Mussolini’s Fascist Manifesto is lying and lying egregiously. German National Socialism came from German ideas about the French Communist and Socialist literature … from the 1700s … more than an entire century before Mussolini was even born.
and even if the Germans hadn’t invented the National Socialist concept themselves, you can’t date the origin of the concept later than 1848 … when Marx wrote it down in the Communist Manifesto.
J. Radclyffe says: September 1, 2017 at 2:30 pm
and the educated will chortle at this notion. Please crack open a book older than Rothbard if you want an actual understanding of right wing and left wing.
the stupidest person of all is the one who was taught that he has learned something because all the popular kids agree that a particular Lie is so.
And just for a little brevity, here’s some Texas rednecks doing exactly what Charlie Hebdo hates:
https://ljubomirfarms.wordpress.com/2017/09/02/not-just-firearms-need-to-be-taken-seriously/
Antifa’s purpose extends far beyond just beating up anyone that looks like whatever a Nazi is at the moment. In the absence of any visible enemies Antifa defaults to violence directed against any police presence that hasn’t already been given stand down orders by sympathetic city officials. Trust, they don’t care about beating up their imagined enemies, resisting anything and everything Trump or stomping out ‘hate speech’ – what they want is a complete destruction of any semblance of what the USA is:
Scott:
Are you sure Charlie Hebdo isn’t lampooning the people you seem to also despise? This cover looks like a reductio ad absurdum illustration.
Boxer
Whites and the right are made soft by comfort cowards who won’t fight back. Specifically they won’t fight back against the police and the state (the real source of their problems, not antifa). They’ve bragged about how they don’t throw rocks back or give antifa goons a good hiding once they have them down. These are the brags of losers and victims, of people kowtowing to and establishment and state that sicked the thugs on them in the first place. We’ve seen the same thing play out in conventional politics for decades, where Democrats and leftists do everything but spit in Republicans’ faces and the Republicans don’t do anything but stand there with that wan smile on their faces quacking about civil debate and pretending that their cowardice, crookedness, and lack of conviction are some sort of moral virtues. They’re not fooling anyone.
Oppression usually relies on the oppressed to cooperate. Part of anarcho-tyranny is that tyranny part will mostly be aimed at those who are easiest to push around. It costs the system nothing to throw you to the mob and as long as that is true you’ll keep being thrown. The primary way to put pressure on the state is to escalate – everyone to the right of Rudy Giuliani should show up at these events with a baseball bat or steel pipe and with the numbers and intentions to blow by the police and tear into these free-speech raping fascists. Fighting back threatens general order and political stability, and that threatens the interests of the elite. The real target is the establishment, not antifa.
Boxer-
I have given it some thought. (Someone upthread pointed out the CH is generally satire).
But at this point, I don’t think it matters. If it is satire, it’s lost on too many people to be effective.
On the contrary. The fact that it’s lost on some makes them the butt of the joke.
http://www.chron.com/entertainment/article/Charlie-Hebdo-Cover-Portraying-Harvey-Victims-as-12164031.php
There are very few real Nazis in America (or Texas). Naziism isn’t something that has historic roots in America, nor do Americans feel any sort of allegiance to the swastika. Those that think so are the primary laughingstock, with those who take anything CH publishes seriously enough to get upset a secondary target.
Boxer
Boxer says: September 2, 2017 at 12:29 pm
Those that think so are the primary laughingstock, with those who take anything CH publishes seriously enough to get upset a secondary target.
you know who the primary laughingstock is?
those of us who took the murder of 12 Charlie Hebdo employees seriously. cuz, you know, their lives are just a joke.
When one is standing at the North Pole, whichever direction one then moves is south from the Pole. In like manner (not my analogy and I forget who made it) any move away from whatever is the current leftist ideology is Nazi; thus any view which does not embrace the current isms or is against the present phobias is fascist. It of course leads to the lunatic realisation that someone like my late father who risked his life against the Nazis in WW2 would now were he alive be a Nazi. We should all embrace being Nazis as we embrace being Spartacus.
Somewhat off topic perhaps I wish to announce after two very unpleasant experiences in the last fortnight that I have formed the view that once again Homosexuality and its propagation must be outlawed. LGBT and their hijacked rainbow are amongst many other things Pied Pipers of Hamlin leading our children to destruction. I’m sorry but that is how I see things (love the sinner hate the sin as the Catholics say).
I’m sorta conflicted. The only people I’ve ever met who hate women as much as I do are homos. I find their endless histrionics and their frivolous lawsuits against bakeries pretty annoying, however.
after two very unpleasant experiences in the last fortnight that I have formed the view that once again Homosexuality and its propagation must be outlawed.
I’m wiling to tolerate homosexuality in private homes and red light districts (remember those?).
But no gay marriage. No gay adoption. No teaching it to children in schools. No public displays of perverse acts outside of the red light districts.
And short of censorship, how can we pressure Hollywood to once again make gay characters taboo.
Dear Anon,
If anything, that understates the case. Mussolini began as a Marxist-Leninist revolutionary. He was expelled from the Socialist Party of Italy for disagreeing with their hesitancy to indulge in armed struggle.
A.J. Gregor authored a couple of serious books on this in the 1980s. Check Young Mussolini: The Intellectual Origins of Fascism (U.C. Press) for an overview.
Best,
Boxer
Jew613:
There is no “German Communist Party” in Germany, much less in Berkeley. This is just dumb.
Antifa is (not unlike the KKK organizations in the U.S.) composed largely of a mixture of government agents running COINTELPRO, paid agents provocateurs, and informants who are trying to get previous felony convictions reduced. Any sincere leftish type who is stupid enough to wallow around with that bunch will get what he deserves.
Recent remarks by Trump suggests that at some future date, Antifa and the local bigots are all going to be rounded up together and thrown, en masse, in jail. This will probably happen close to the next election. Normal Americans despise people on all sides of these silly street battles, and it will boost his popularity in a tremendous way when it happens. You have been warned.
Boxer
@Red Pill Latecomer
May I take you up on the toleration of Homosexuality in private: it sounds humane does it not; don’t place a policeman in a bedroom – yet – the same courtesy is not offered to the Heterosexual. We must have an entire police-force in the master bedroom to ensure that no woman even were she married to, living with, naked and in bed with her husband has not in any way been sexually inconvenienced and even though there is not of course a shred of independent evidence of the husband’s alleged sexual behaviour. A marriage can be annulled for non-consumation yet on the whim of the wife consumation may be denied; if the husband then seeks another woman the wife can divorce him on the ground of adultery – this is crazy. Sadly men are only too willing to attack other men on the say-so of a woman but grant carte-blanche immunity to those Homo-sexually inclined.
@Boxer
LGBTQWERTY is the most unstable of coalitions of the perpetually aggrieved. The G’s can’t stand the Ls; the Ls hate all men, the T’s are the carnival-show freaks and the B’s (who cannot make up their minds) are fifth columnists. I have no idea what the others letters stand for.
A timely article, Dalrock. I’ve been looking at Antifa for some time now, and it appears to me to be an exact replay of post WW1 Europe.
At that time, Marx and Lenin’s much vaunted Revolution did not take root. It had in Russia, but it was not world-wide. It was put down in Germany and in other countries. The subjugation of Communism is the broad canvas of all 20th century history, starting in 1919 and ending only when the Iron Curtain fell.
When disenfranchised, Communist thugs, led by their Commisars of the tribe who won’t be mentioned, reacted to all forms of order through violence. They beat up Conservatives. They beat up Centrists. They beat up Catholics. They beat up police.
Their techniques were particularly odious: blows to the throat, testicles and neck. Blows directed at the head are particularly directed at the parts where the skull is its thinnest. Shamefully and covertly, this “Inter-War European Fighting Technique” is now practiced as Krav Maga.
The writer of Ecclesiastes tells us “There is nothing new under the Sun”. He is right. Antifa is just another expression of the violent Communist Left, formed and funded by the same tribe who have attempted and failed at world-wide revolution as before.
Ultimately , it is a counter-revolution, The most successful revolution ever was initiated by Jesus Christ. He took a race-based religion with it’s blessings of salvation given to a chosen nation, turned it on it’s head, made it faith-based with salvation open to all who believe His message. He could do that because Salvation in both it’s forms was His. In doing so, He formed the basis of the most advanced culture in terms of science, architecture, sculpture, engineering and medical advancement as a by-product – Western culture, the one we live in.
Those deposed have been trying to re-establish their control ever since. There isn’t a Right and a Left. Just builders and Destroyers.
Liberal Tolerance (and motives) in a picture:
@Looking Glass
It’s the evil in their Souls being brought out & channeled. It’s a way to appease the roaring demons that oppress them. This is why they all look so terrible in the mugshots. They’re tormented people.
Objects of both pity and scorn.
boxer, I can see why the CH cover could be cause offence.
but all I can see is them taking the piss out of the unbelievable level of nazi hysteria (thanks MSM!) that gripped the USA after half a dozen guys with nazi flags appeared in Charlottesville, mingled in with the rest of the march.
Im kinda surprised CNN didnt run with the idea from the CH cover as actual fact.
@spike
”Those deposed have been trying to re-establish their control ever since. There isn’t a Right and a Left. Just builders and Destroyers.”
Problem with much of leftism is its egalitarianism. Which is opposed to Christianity in its hierarchical nature. Patriarchy is not equal. Nor is the relations in the church. Whatever equality is restricted to before God who judges all impartially.
Hence it is evil because it is a distortion of the Good and in opposition to God’s divine order.
Women don’t understand Cause and Effect, example MMMLXXXVIII :
Lol! Anon, stupid ‘Merican scank. Fwereee Luvvvve!
OT, but here’s an article ripe for comment:
http://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2017/09/02/cheap-sex-is-making-men-give-up-on-marriage-author-says.html
@Hmm, “. To get a wife (and, therefore, sex), men had to be clean and presentable and have a good job”
“clean” AND “presentable” AND “GOOD JOB” ?
such sexims and from a man as well…..she just had to turn up 😀
“Now with porn on-demand … sex is a commodity available at any time.”
umm yeah, has this guy ever been laid ?
Guys, I really need your help. I want to kill myself right now.
When I discovered beta behavior and being submissive is associated with homosexuality, I tried to stop doing beta things. I don’t want to become a homosexual. The thing is, Christianity limits some alpha behaviors and encourages some “cuck” behaviors. I was trying to do the mental gymnastics that proves that I am not a faggot just because I want to submit, but I just can’t. I was dealing with the inner voices telling me that I am a fag and I just shouted out “fuck you.” I don’t know if I said that to God.
(I have never had any fag desires, by the way. I want to prevent myself from getting into the state where I would have such desires)
I want to kill myself. I don’t know if I offended God. I don’t know if I’m going to hell.
You guys are the only online Christian community that takes the alpha/beta paradigm seriously (except /christian/ on 8chan, but I have seen literal blasphemy of the Holy Spirit on there, so there’s no way in hell that I’m visiting that site), so I’m coming here for help.
What I mean is, I don’t know if I directed that to God.
I know of the existence of H-OCD, that is, if you are terribly obsessed that you might be a fag, you aren’t a fag, so that isn’t the concern. What I need to know is if I offended God (and how submitting to a male isn’t gay).
‘Women don’t understand Cause and Effect, example MMMLXXXVIII :’
They understand the bad feels when their free love isn’t what it’s cracked up to be.
@Spike and @Cane Caldo,
Left = satan (evil, death, chaos, lies)
Right= Jehovah (good, life, order, truth).
IMHO.
The alt-right needs to become the True Right and win another Holy War. But we win another way if we fail, as Jehovah will step in again, as in Noah’s time.
Be strong brothers, spread the news amongst our men.
Speculative ramblings chill out . Even if you are gay don’t kill yourself. Just slow down and take it down a notch. If your lucky enough to find the dalrock and the red pill your on the correct path. Unless you wake up every morning thinking about sucking a dick or you go to bed everynite dreaming about some ruff bristle of beard on the back of your neck I’m pretty sure your not queer. So just take it slow on the whole Alfa Beta shit. Just learn and keep breathing
speculativeramblings:
You are, from what I can read, suffering from a type of depression, probably Mixed Mood Disorder. That is when Anxiety and Depression come together with high intensity (unlike bipolar, where they are intense but separate -anyone else here can offer their views, by all means).
Frequently, MMD is accompanied by some type of ideation. In my case, it was ”escalating suicidal ideation”. That meant I didn’t want to kill myself, but I constantly and intensely was tormented by it being a good idea. In your case, it sounds like the ideation is escalating homosexual ideation.
I did 3 things
-I had to see my doctor to eliminate any organic forms of illness. That being so, then you know it’s just your head playing tricks with you.
-I went to see a counsellor who treats MMD. Usually they will offer you some sort of Cognitive Therapy, which in my case, didn’t help, because I recognized it as secular Buddhism. Informally it was useful in one regard: When Ideation is at it’s most intense, you can’t , and shouldn’t confront it. Rather, like the martial concept of Ai-Ki, you separate yourself from it and let it pass you. It’s a difficult concept to grasp, but it helps.
-Get ready to fight the spiritual fight. There is a spiritual component to this. I don’t know how many well-meaning people during this time offered me meditation, various forms of Buddhism, various therapies to basically get me to accept a worldview contrary to the Bible’s and contrary to God’s. Of course your problems disappear: it’s because you will have gotten rid of the concept of Right and Wrong, and lost your soul in the process.
I went back on a massive review, a pilgrimage through everything I had learned. I re-examined Genesis in the light of science, and re-examined science in the light of Genesis. I resolved that there is only one Truth, to which Jesus constantly testifies, and if so, then scinentific fact should align with it. To my surprise it did.
After that, give yourself a daily dose of ”3 P’s” – Psalms, Proverbs and Paul. You’ll need comfort, wisdom and maturity in the faith, and these will supply them to you. Finally, find a good church where you can basically be supported. It doesn’t have to be a formal structure. It can be a bunch of Christian men you can talk to about anything that troubles you.
Hope this helps, brother.
glosoli says:
September 3, 2017 at 6:20 pm
@Spike and @Cane Caldo,
Left = satan (evil, death, chaos, lies)
Right= Jehovah (good, life, order, truth).
IMHO.
-What was it Jesus said about GOATS being on his LEFT and His SHEEP being on His RIGHT?
Thank you, brother.
@keuth, lol, agree if spanking ramblings if legit.
If you are then take a deep breath, life can take along time to figure out, and if you are doing your head in that you’ve offended God then ask him and see what he says, the answer may take a while. Dont necessarily build upon others false teachings thinking this is what God is all about. You seem more tormented than convicted from your post. Bind the enemy up man if you are under attack and tell him to flee!
A Psalm for you.
Psalm 23 (KJV)
1 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
I originally posted the PS23 from the new NIV but it just seemed awful,with the KJV, the prose is beautiful..
*@keith, lol, agree if “spankingramblings” is legit.
/stupidtypos
I already know that I’m not a fag, I’m just worried if I offended God.
speculativeramblings @ 5:50 pm:
“I was dealing with the inner voices telling me that I am a fag and I just shouted out “fuck you.””
Presuming you’re a teenager dealing with inner sexual confusion, don’t take it personally. This world tries hard to twist you at a vulnerable age but you don’t stay at that vulnerable age for long. Endure it for a few months and you’ll barely remember the trouble.
As for the Manosphere’s Alpha/Beta division, remember that’s a sexual ranking only. Christ would have qualified as an Omega (lifetime N=0, Mary preferred doing the dishes to being around Him) yet there was nothing wrong with Him.
Speculative Ramblings:
Noplace in the text does God demand we submit sexually to him. From what I gather about his character, God is beyond sexuality and gender. I read him as not being “incomplete” in the way men and women are (we need each other, not only to reproduce) — so in a way He seems to have both male and female aspects, but even this is a poor analogy. God is simply fullness. He has no need to have sexual relations to anyone (and who would He have them with? He has no peer!)
If you’re serious about your religious discipline, then you ought to submit to your God, in the same way you submit to your boss, or to your personal trainer. Take his good advice and apply it to your life. Don’t do the things that are forbidden in the text. Try and do the things (pray, etc.) that are encouraged.
I also agree with the others that encourage you to seek out a psychiatrist or counselor. Note that many Christian priests have degrees in this, and related, fields. If you’re comfortable seeing a Catholic priest, they can usually refer you to a competent professional who can help.
Hoping the best for you…
Boxer
On a general note:
The religious life encourages men not to bang skanky randos. Is that really “alpha behaviors”? The manosphere seems to think so. In reality, every man can bang skanky randos if he wants to. You learn a few tricks and you’re off to the races. In return, you run the risk of having kids you never see (and possibly know nothing about), getting diseases, and being hit with a claim for child support. You also damage your psychological state doing this. (Playaz like Heartiste will deny this – they are liars.) It makes you shift into the mode of seeing people as “ready-to-hand” (i.e. as reified objects, rather than as unique human beings). This is a very stunted and primitive way to go through life.
In sum, what the ‘sphere describes as “alpha” and “cuck” are predicated upon a short-sighted and hedonistic view of life that is attractive to young and inexperienced men, but which keeps its adherents from becoming their best selves. Be cautious about the advice you get on the internet, and don’t dismiss the lessons in the Bible based upon what anonymous commenters tell you. Learn to use your own brain, and do what’s best for you, regardless of what others think.
Best,
Boxer
I don’t know how to think for myself. I know that that level of bluntness sounds like sarcasm, but I don’t know how to do it.
And no, I seriously am a Christian, that’s why I put “cuck” in scare quotes. I just feel like, after reading these redpill (as in manosphere) things (of course I read them, I grew up a typical neocon who discovered a large online movement of right-leaning people, why wouldn’t I be excited to learn to be more right-wing), that I am trying to have my mental frameworks on the tightrope of “not cucked” and “not unrighteous.”
Boxer wrote (~four posts above):
I’d like to second Boxer on this.
The PUA Lifestyle sells itself (and, with a HD full of, uh, items from Strauss, Roosh, Erik von Markovik a.k.a. Mystery, DeAngelo & so on, I know a bit about it and how it sells itself) as Men Wise iN The Ways Of The World (and/or Women) giving avuncular advice to AFCs about how to get laid, with a miscellany of add-ons about self-confidence in life generally, and how not to look like a slob — not necessarily in that order.
In FACT, eagerly learning tricks, ploys, lines and routines isn’t about ramping up your N. It is, rather, about ramping up your N so that you have as little emotional investment in any given woman as possible — in other words, it is primarily about avoiding intimacy (not fostering it).
in FACT, it’s some men getting money off of other men, in exchange for promises of sexual access to women — which to my jaundiced eye, is pretty close to pimping.
in FACT, the PUA Culture is about men going out to get laid, and sharing tips on how to get laid, largely so that they can garner the admiration of other men. Let’s look at that with the telescope collapsed: looking for the sexual admiration of other men. It’s like being gay, except with women as cut-outs. And then, there’s all the valid points Boxer makes, on top of all that.
Amongst Dalrock’s many quips, is the line about the current secular culture encouraging young women to “waste as little as possible of their youth, beauty and fertility on their future husbands.”
(At least, I think it’s Dalrock’s line. Maybe he got it somewhere else.)
Well, there’s a mirror image of that, in the PUA culture — it encourages a young man to avoid “wasting” his youth and earning potential on any future wife.
(And, yes, all of us in this forum understand how so do divorce courts, and prolonged “courtship”, and all the other things we discuss here: — I just want to point out how PUA Culture is part of that;
it is not, despite how it sells itself, distinct from all of those messed up aspects of contemporary culture’s SMP & MMP.)
But, finally, I think that the point that I am trying to make (echoing or reaffirming Boxer of course), is that these points aren’t new observations. “PUA” may sell itself as something modern, new, and innovative (after all, how could hacking female sexuality not be 21st C. — it’s hacking, innit?), but it’s older than Don Juan and Cassanova — older than the Latin literature of Ovid’s poems and the Satyricon. It’s so old, in fact, that the obvious wisdom about it is built right in to the idioms of our language. For example, and quite on point to this topic: it is no coincidence at all, that the English phrase “to f_ck around” simultaneously means: (1) to be promiscuous; (2) to waste one’s time.
And, the dirty little secret of the PUA Imperative, is that the more success you have at it, the less joy there is in it. “Joy of Sex”, indeed.
Pax Christi Vobiscum
(And, apologies for any typos …)
The alt-left falsely asserts that 150 million Americans are “nazis” and “kkk” white supremacists. The actual truth is that, as the SPLC rightfully asserts on their website, the entire U.S. KKK membership consists of between 5,000 – 8,000 people and the largest National Socialist organization has a mere 400 people. Antifa is criminally attacking and obstructing the constitutional rights of everyday conservatives who believe in free speech who are non-racist 99.999999 percent of the time.
Furthermore, the SPLC is a wholly partisan and corrupt political tool of the alt-left used to demonize moral Christians for not supporting the radical alt-left LGBT agenda. Amazon and Google/Youtube have removed and demonetized respectable Christian ministries based on the SPLC’s mischaracterization of them as “hate groups” and these ministries are presently suing Amazon, Google/Youtube, and the SPLC for engaging in libel and obstructing their constitutional rights. I hope they win.
If Antifa is the new face of the Democrat party, then that party is in for a sustained decline going forward. Given the Democrat party’s present radical hatred of America, Western Civilization, white people in general, and Christians while simultaneously loving immorality, divisiveness, and using the government to persecute the moral on behalf of the immoral: a sustained decline of the Democrat party would be a really good thing.
GunnerQ @ 0800 and Boxer @ 0816 you throw in the kind of confounds that make the entire alpha/beta paradigm into question for me. It is one of the areas where I have not found “truth” in the alternative view sources of the internet.
I admit it’s quite possible I am just not able to get around my own personal experiences (making the error of translating anecdotes into generalizable truth) but it just seems the reality is so much more complex.
Is there a list of features and behaviors that most women find attractive most of the time? Sure.
But start from the premise of “this guy has absolutely zero of them” and “this guy has 100% of them locked down” and then place every other man on earth on a spectrum between the two. Then ask yourself where you are on that spectrum and what it means to you. The ask yourself if you want more pu$$y and how to obtain it. Then ask yourself how much of that stuff is just natural (born) stuff. Then ask yourself if you can do those things and still be a Christian. Then ask yourself…
Forever.
Now I know the flip side of that leads to “just be yourself and you will find a girl who loves you for who you are,” and is also stupid. The manosphere has basically torn that idea to shreds. So I don’t know. I guess what I am saying is, the discussion about what is or is not “alpha” leads to almost a neurotic obsession with it sometimes. My hope is that men can embark upon self-improvement projects that will enrich their lives in whatever areas they are looking for, and not drive themselves crazy over it.
excuse me, “call the entire”
I do not believe in Game. If it does exist I have yet to observe it being applied successfully. That is not to say that one cannot learn from ones mistakes and then apply the learned lesson. One can no more not be oneself than one can add inches to ones height. Lifts, weightlifting and so on are available but they proclaim that one is not naturally what one claims to be.
The inverse rule is that the more a man advertises his success with females the more the certainty that he is an armchair Romeo.
Dear Opus:
By “success with females” I know that you mean the sort of real achievement that Scott, Dalrock, Lyn87, and other married brothers evince here daily.
It’s really no effort at all to find some (still moderately attractive) 25-year old single mother, and take her home for some action. Even I can manage this much. It is the sort of cheap thrill that the young men learn on places like Heartiste, and admittedly it is a sort of on-again, off-again hobby of mine. It doesn’t really entail success, though… at least as I understand the term.
Were I to try my hand at marriage, I’m confident that the coupling would be measured in weeks, rather than months, and whatever unfortunate dame proved so stupid to accept my offer would, no doubt, be one of the rare women in the divorce courts that had total justification (according not only to the secular law, but to the rules of the bible also) to claim her rightful piece of my hide.
Regards,
Boxer
Scott @ 7:46 am:
“GunnerQ @ 0800 and Boxer @ 0816 you throw in the kind of confounds that make the entire alpha/beta paradigm into question for me”
You’ve surely done similar things in your previous work, looking at one set of behavior in order to diagnose a related, murkier set.
What might be throwing you is its misuse. One thing I see constantly in the Manosphere is using SMV as a metric for success in life or worth as a human being. For example, my calling Christ an Omega in my last post is no insult. The guy had very good reasons for hiding His power, not bedding women and dying a cursed death. But some guys have argued He’s Alpha just because He’s God.
Another mistake is thinking SMV ranking is set in stone. It isn’t. Remember Tim Tebow the famous quarterback from a few years ago? I bet Barbie doesn’t. You have natural Alphas, situational Alphas and artificial Alphas.
Humans are incredibly sexual creatures. Think about how many government policies can be explained by the fact that artificial Alphas need to constantly destroy the men around them in order to maintain their SMV. I just explained half of human history with that sentence.
That’s why it makes sense to rank people sexually.
I am of the view that the male need to score with women has little to do with sexual fulfillment. The purpose is to be able to hold forth to fellow males as to ones success and thus to imply to the other males that one, having what a woman wants, must be a person of substance and someone to be reckoned with. This can also be achieved by putting other males down, disparaging their success with women and better still outing them as Homosexual. In short: this is all about climbing the male totem-pole of status.
Labeling a man as say a Gamma achieves the same purpose; it is an ad-hominem.
https://therationalmale.com/2017/09/04/band-of-brothers/
“If Antifa is the new face of the Democrat party, then that party is in for a sustained decline going forward.”
American, a week or so ago the /pol/acks positively ID’d at least two children of Party cadres in the Berkeley and/or C’ville riots during their insomniac trawling of every png, webm, and social media profile available (and then some). Masked and actively, indeed violently involved with the antifa.
Which led to a little speculation (before the thread was shunted) over at least one of the causes of the peculiar police paralysis with regard to unprovoked assaults being carried out right under their noses. Shooting, clubbing, gassing or even mug-shotting a DNC princeling and spoiling xir resumé with an arrest record would indeed cause the wrath of the mighty to fall about them.
Which does increase the whole black bloc’s resemblance to Red Guards.
I do not believe in Game. If it does exist I have yet to observe it being applied successfully. That is not to say that one cannot learn from ones mistakes and then apply the learned lesson. One can no more not be oneself than one can add inches to ones height. Lifts, weightlifting and so on are available but they proclaim that one is not naturally what one claims to be.
Which isn’t what it’s about.
It’s like this. Say you are poor, naturally, at public speaking — when you do it, you suck at it, so you hate to do it. You stammer around, look awkward and sound even more awkward, don’t enunciate or project your voice, have no presence and so on. Ok. You could say “well, the person I am is just the kind of person who isn’t good at public speaking, and so it’s useless to try to learn how to do it better, because that’s just not who I am, and it would be a sham — I know that I am not naturally a good public speaker, so it’s all a show and sham and I would not be being myself”. And that’s ok, I suppose, if you want to do that — but it isn’t true. Public speaking can be learned, and learned quite well, by people who are far from naturals at it — and even by people who themselves doubted their ability to change themselves in this way — not by becoming someone different, but by augmenting who they are to become a version of themselves who is good at public speaking.
Game is like that. Beyond the terminology and the jargon and the bravado and technical nonsense and all the rest, at the bottom it’s about doing things that make you a more charming version of yourself when it comes to women (and it spills into other relationships). If someone is using it to become a different person, then they are doing it very incorrectly because that indeed doesn’t work. But you can learn to become a much more fundamentally charming and socially engaging version of yourself, and this is the essence of Game. It can seem totally useless and unnecessary to someone who is a naturally charming man, just as Toastmasters is useless and unnecessary to me because I’ve been very good at public speaking since I was a child — but it doesn’t mean that these things are ineffective at helping people who do not naturally have these skills to become better versions of themselves.
—–
Scott —
Now I know the flip side of that leads to “just be yourself and you will find a girl who loves you for who you are,” and is also stupid. The manosphere has basically torn that idea to shreds. So I don’t know. I guess what I am saying is, the discussion about what is or is not “alpha” leads to almost a neurotic obsession with it sometimes. My hope is that men can embark upon self-improvement projects that will enrich their lives in whatever areas they are looking for, and not drive themselves crazy over it.
Yeah, anything that becomes close to an ideology (and that is the case with this at times) can veer into places where people get fanatical about it and start defining themselves around it and so on, when it really just started as a useful way to help men who have a hard time with women understand a bit about why that might be. Trouble is that some people will take that and become obsessed with it, or develop odd, or even harmful, ideas about it or based on it, and then you have a mess. In other cases, people seem to forget that while this is one lens on life (and a useful one in some contexts), it’s only one lens — it isn’t THE LENS to end all lenses. It’s just one lens among many which has validity in understanding some aspects of life — it has to be understood that life is complex, humans are complex, and there is more than one lens required to begin to understand that complexity.
There are some good educational aspects to Game. My weak point was certain social skills and not even realizing how important eye contact is. But it is at best a supplimental tool. The majority of success with women pretty much comes from if they respond to your invitation. I don’t know if Game increases your odds…but I do know that if she’s made up her mind she isn’t going to respond, there isn’t a game on the planet which will make her change her mind.
I do believe it was called…you can’t negotiate desire.
Seconding Novaseeker’s comment about Game, and adding more.
I do not believe in Game. If it does exist I have yet to observe it being applied successfully.
It is astonishing that one can be in the ‘sphere for years, and still not get it.
Can certain approaches to communication be more attractive? More persuasive?
Is it valuable to learn what subtle indications of interest women broadcast? Is it valuable to learn when, and how to escalate?
Is doing well with women a learnable skill?
Is it valuable to learn what behaviors and traits reduce a man’s attractiveness, and how to purge them?
Is it valuable to learn what sort of basic tests a woman will present, and how to pass them?
Is it valuable to learn what pitfalls to avoid (like paying for dinner)?
Is learning how to approach women during the daytime, and start a conversation with them, going to create more opportunities for a man?
Unless you answer ‘no’ to all of those above questions, Game exists.
What Novaseeker writes about is when something becomes an “ism” or an overarching life philosophy and it happens to almost any cool idea or thought process.
I’ll disclose a little without being lurid.
I’ve noticed that my wife tends to be a lot more clingy and “into” me when I am swamped at work and don’t have the time or energy to put in to attentiveness at home. I’m distracted, aloof almost. After about a week of it she really starts to go out of her way to get my attention.
Game guys have a whole lexicon and theoretical approach to using this phenomenon to their advantage with women. They describe all the psychological processes going on, about how to play on women’s deepest fears, etc.
And all of it is more or less “true.”
To me it’s just “the way chicks are” and my older brother explained it to me when I was like 11.
When I’ve tried to add these ingredients to my marriage artificially I always feel like a poorly trained monkey trying to do a weird mating dance in front of her. So I revert back to just doing what comes natural and I still have a pretty affectionate wife.
I just feel really stupid when I try to force it.
Scott —
To me it’s just “the way chicks are” and my older brother explained it to me when I was like 11.
When I’ve tried to add these ingredients to my marriage artificially I always feel like a poorly trained monkey trying to do a weird mating dance in front of her. So I revert back to just doing what comes natural and I still have a pretty affectionate wife.
I just feel really stupid when I try to force it.
Yup, which makes perfect sense. The whole apparatus of Game is for the guys who didn’t have a father/uncle/brother explain this, or didn’t have sisters they observed close-up and so on — this is not a small group of guys, unfortunately. So for those guys, doing what comes naturally to them leads to bad results, whereas for someone who learned about these things at like 11, it doesn’t, because you learned it already and it’s well baked in. Game is for guys who aren’t baked in like that.
Moving back to my Toastmasters example, I have sat through executive training sessions in a group setting that covered public speaking for executives and had much the same reaction as you write above. if I did what the coaches suggested in terms of the intentionality of it all, it would feel really stupid, unnatural and forced to me. But for the other folks in the room who need to be intentional in order to learn to do it, it may feel stupid, unnatural and forced to do so, but by doing that, it eventually becomes closer to routine, closer to being baked in, and therefore closer to flowing naturally. But they need to be intentional about it first in order to get there.
“Game” as a philosophical concept is just hedonism. “Game” as describing a hard-to-nail-down set of actions & interactions is true. What really gets most guys is the fact they’ve been lied to so much, so they want to cling to the pain rather than learning better.
Further, most of the people pushing “game” are in it for a buck, so good information is harder to come by. Much of the deeper interpersonal interaction concepts are counter-intuitive because Men & Women desire very different things in relationships, thus replicating what works Male to Male or Female to Female simply doesn’t work. Without an exterior frame work (or lots of trial & error), you won’t just figure it out.
Nova-
This makes sense. But what has been the valuable thing (for me) in reading around here is being shown just how powerful social pressure and culture is making otherwise totally rational and reasonable people deny things that they observe every day with their eyes.
In other words, I had to be shown that my brothers instruction– which I internalized and was successful with as a teenager — was not wrong. Over the course of the 90s (mostly) I came to believe a great number of things that weren’t true with disasterous effects.
I’ve mentioned it elsewhere but my frustration has always been of the “I thought all that crap was for high schoolers” type. But it turns out it never really changes. More sophisticated maybe, but basically the same.
I could be mad about it or just move on. I just decided to relax and be more like the 22 year old version of myself (with more money) and that was a much better formula.
It’s much easier than pretending that “shallow Hal” has all the answers.
@GunnerQ
Christ would have qualified as an Omega (lifetime N=0, Mary preferred doing the dishes to being around Him) yet there was nothing wrong with Him.
Slight issue here………Mary was sitting at Jesus’ feet. Her sister Martha was busy doing dishes and wanted Jesus to chastise Mary for not helping. His response. “There are few things that matter. In fact only one. Mary has chosen well and it will not be taken from her”
This should be one of the pillars for church guidance on marriage. Sadly, it’s almost NEVER applied to a marriage. At least I’ve never heard it.
Headline from the SPLC
“TAKE DOWN THE MONUMENTS
More than 1,500 Confederate symbols stand in communities like Charlottesville with the potential to unleash more turmoil and bloodshed.”
Now STATUES can “UNLEASH more turmoil and bloodshed”. Seriously? The statues themselves are unleashing (a verb). They are inanimate objects! They can’t unleash anything! Only the terrorists can “unleash more turmoil and bloodshed” which is exactly what they want.
Guns don’t kill people, people do.
Statues don’t unleash bloodshed, people do
Right Hose_B
Why is Al Sharp(Worm)Tongue, and phoney Rev. Jesse Jackson complaining now about statues, and did nothing when the US had it’s first true Marxist president with a shady background?
Were I to post here that, well, frankly, the Sermon on the Mount is not all it’s cracked-up to be, I would receive less opprobrium than for doubting the efficacy indeed the existence of Game. I knew I would receive flak if anyone was reading but noticing that it was skive-off Monday in America I assumed that no one would notice. I do not think there really is that much difference here between myself and Novaseeker nor for that matter Anon.
All analogies are false and good public speakers do tend to be naturally good at public speaking; an acquaintance of mine attended a series of public assertiveness seminars. I failed to notice any difference in his subsequent demeanour for he was as assertive as ever but had convinced himself that his failures were caused be a lack thereof. Nova has surely observed the variety of ability in advocates in court; when I was stateside I lived for while with a D.C. lawyer and his wife and she told me that in the week before he had to appear in court as occasionally happened he was so on edge that he was impossible to live with and yet earlier in his life this man had captained a fleet of your submarines! I said I would be only too happy to appear for on his behalf – provided I were given a right of audience.
All I said was that I have never observed effective seduction technique producing obvious results and thus I assume it to be as rare as the Arabian Phoenix; what I have observed is that as soon as some men enter a room all the women make a bee-line for that said man and I do not believe that even were one to spend all the gold in Fort Knox on studying to be a P.U.A. that one would on entering a room make even one woman’s head turn. Every male wants to be but cannot be that man; such men on hearing the word Game assume that you are talking about football. Nothing more embarrassing than watching a man out of his depths attempting to ingratiate himself with some female.
Blessed are the cheese-makers – meh.
Probably because most modern pastors would side with the overworked nag.
I think the pressure from our education/entertainment to “think for yourself” is subversive. It’s being directed to those who don’t know how and will fail if they do so, leading to chaos and confusion. It’s a command from people who undermine rightful authorities and replace it with their own.
Adam and Eve didn’t need to “think for themselves”, they needed to stick to obeying the one rule they had from God. And for we who are Christian, we already have the important parts written down. Follow Jesus and do what he says.
One thing to clear up confusion is to spell out what you mean with the word “cucked”. If you think some Christian behavior is “cucky”, what the Christian behavior are you talking about, and how does it fit the definition of “cuck”?
The Christian walk does look foolish in the eyes of the world. Christians are told to do things that seem shameful by worldly standards – but the Christian seeks to please God, who operates on a different framework and standard than the world.
@speculativeramblings: “I don’t know if I offended God …”
1. To which “God” do you refer?
2. If the God of the Jewish and Christian Bible, then – of course you offended God. In many ways. Through many deeds. At many different times. Given that this is true, why should this particular offense against God bother you more than the others? (rhetorical question)
3. The entire point of the Law given in the Old Testament was to demonstrate that no one can keep all of the Law all of the time. It was given to demonstrate that we cannot earn God’s good-will and favor through our own efforts. In case we missed the point, the Bible makes it directly: “I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do … For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.” (Romans 7:15-20; NIV) “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:” (Romans 3:10; KJV)
And this, as the solution to that: “I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate (one who pleads our case) with the Father–Jesus Christ, the Righteous One” (1 John 2:1)
4. What did Jesus say? “Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. The entire law [given to Moses] and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.” Paraphrased (Matthew 22:35-40) Where in those two statements does it say that we must be perfect? Never sin? Never get angry with God and lash out at Him?
5. Given Points 3 and 4, we who are “in Christ” are not held accountable when we sin. We have an advocate to plead our case to Father God. Yet there will be goats at the Judgement Seat who WILL be held accountable for their sin. One sin. Two different outcomes. What makes the difference? Only this: there is no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood (Hebrews 9:22); the “sheep” believe that God accepts Jesus’ shed blood on the Cross as the blood he requires in order to forgive their sin, and they respond to the Holy Spirit’s call to repentance. The goats don’t. The difference between sheep and goats is nothing more than that.
The sheep and the goats both sin. Only the sheep will hear “Well done thou good and faithful servant; enter into the joy of the Lord” (Matthew 25:23; KJV). Not because they never sinned. But because they yielded to the Holy Spirit’s call to repentence.
SR – don’t get your knickers in a knot trying to be perfect. The Bible makes it clear that we can’t be, even if your earthly father may expect that of you. Just strive to be forgiven. That means repenting when called to repentance. And it’s OK to get angry with God. He could have made us and the world so much different than it is, but he didn’t. It’s OK to get angry about that. It’s not OK to let that anger ultimately alienate you from repenting when the Holy Spirit calls you to it. Understand that, ultimately, we are not gods unto ourselves. Rather, we are subject to the God who made us, and we cannot undo what he has done – as much as we might want to. Get angry when you need to. But always bring your thoughts back to that truth.
It’s not fair, but this is our bottom line: God is the creator; we are his creation. Does the creation get to call the Creator to account for what he made?. Or, as the Bible puts it – does the pot get to question the potter whether he knows what he is doing? “I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things … Who are you to question who I am and what I do? Does the clay question the potter about what he is making?” (paraphrased from Isaiah 45:6-10 – KJV) That doesn’t sound user-friendly, but there it is.
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Here you go.
https://americandadweb.wordpress.com/2017/09/06/was-jesus-gaming-martha/
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Need a wider scope. Yes, we have to follow God’s commands, but He also gave us a brain and He expects us to use it. He gave little specific guidance to those He gave the tallents to. They were expected to use their own skills, if even only depositing it with bankers.
This gets into the Free Will debate.
If Ray Bradbury were still alive, I’d love to ask the question, “Where is the end of the railroad? Where do we go to wait until it is time to rebuild it all?”
It’s certainly time to dust off our sandals at this point. But where to?
@Adam
Thank you for pointing this out. The Charlie Hebdo cover had me suckered, until I read your comment. The cover appears to be both a cheap shot at people who are suffering, and an ignorant comment on Texan beliefs. However, a moment’s thought reveals that, even outside the USA, Texas has no reputation as a stronghold of Nazism, and the secular French do not believe that our suffering in the present life is divine payback for our sins. The joke is on us for taking the cover literally.
The fact remains, however, that there are no actual Nazis for Antifas to punch, and so they stretch the definition of “Nazi”, and decide for themselves who deserves this description.
The Antifas imagine that they have renounced religion, and yet here they are, making the same mistakes that religious people made 350 years ago: punishing the people that they deem to be heretics or witches.
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