As bad as Stephen Arterburn and Fred Stoeker come off in Every Man’s Marriage, I think Brenda Stoeker comes off the worst. None of this is intentional, as Stephen and Fred are supposed to come off bad for having not obeyed their wives’ soul-essences not for creating a mystic vagina worship religion, and Brenda isn’t supposed to come off bad at all.
Yet as Fred describes how they met and married followed by Brenda completely shattering his will, the picture he paints of her becomes one of a pathologically manipulative woman. Fred tells us that early in the marriage he at times sinned by resisting her will. That ended when Brenda crushed him completely:
Long ago, when my parents’ divorce loomed over my life, a merciless question swirled over and over within my frightened heart. What are we going to do? I asked myself. What are we going to do?
Brenda’s words [that her feelings were gone] brought the question sweeping back, with an even more personal twist.
…Waves of panic washed over me for days, buckling me in unguarded moments.
Fred then agreed to submit to Brenda, first regarding his family, and eventually in everything. Fred tells us he knew he was dealing with something extraordinary here because making him submit was far more gratifying to Brenda than he would have expected:
Still, I was very confused. Why was this working? All along, I thought Scripture taught that women were supposed to submit to their husbands. Why did my submission revive the marriage this way? And why was the impact of my decision so huge and dramatic? With the family issues, I thought we’d just been dealing with a simple conflict of wills. But the scale of the turnaround suggested something much deeper had been going on between us.
Fred tells us that when he finally found a hobby he absolutely loved (upland bird hunting), Brenda’s reaction was to tell him he could only spend two days a year on it:
“Sweetheart, you can’t imagine how good it makes me feel to know you’ve found a hobby you love,” she began. “You’ve needed one for a long time, but you need to understand what this means to my life. Hunting means I’ll have to handle the kids six days a week all by myself. Besides, what good are Saturdays without the fun you bring to the mix?
…
She continued, “Since you like hunting this much, we should agree now how many times per year you can go. This way, you won’t be tempted to stretch it when your buddies call.”
Fred suggested three days a year was a reasonable number. Brenda told him he could have two. After some back and forth, Fred obeyed her mystical soul essence and agreed to only spend two days a year on the hobby he absolutely loved.
But the most damning things Fred says about Brenda involve the lessons she has taught him and the way he tells us he has come to see her. Fred is teaching other men what his master Brenda taught him:
Oneness has terms. Comply with the terms and emotional closeness follows. If you don’t comply, the emotions will die.
Try reading that out loud a few times. Keep in mind for Fred this isn’t just about sex. When Brenda’s “feelings die”, he goes into a debilitating panic. He can’t breath until he has regained her approval.
One of the first things Brenda did was take complete control of how, when, and how often Fred interacted with his family. This of course would fall under the catch all rule of obeying her soul essence, but for Brenda this was especially important. Fred explains with all seriousness:
You see, Brenda has the gift of discernment. When it comes to family relationships, she knows the good from the bad (Christianity stretches back at least four generations into every branch of her family tree), and what she saw in our in-law relationships made her uncomfortable.
What would happen if Fred were in contact with his family against Brenda’s wishes?
Oneness has terms. Comply with the terms and emotional closeness follows. If you don’t comply, the emotions will die.
Brenda also decides how Fred spends every minute of the day (Chapter 9).
Oneness has terms. Comply with the terms and emotional closeness follows. If you don’t comply, the emotions will die.
She decides what he watches on TV (Chapter 8).
Oneness has terms. Comply with the terms and emotional closeness follows. If you don’t comply, the emotions will die.
And when and how he should bathe and wash his face (Chapter 8).
Oneness has terms. Comply with the terms and emotional closeness follows. If you don’t comply, the emotions will die.
In the Old Testament a Hebrew slave had to be freed by his master after six years. However, if at that time the slave wished to remain a slave, he could elect to remain the master’s slave for life. The master would then drive an awl through the slave’s ear on his master’s door post as a lifetime mark of this decision. In Chapter 7 Fred offers this story as the picture of his marriage to Brenda.
Setting his lobe to the post, he joyously receives the mark, submitting his rights and future for the honor of serving and pleasing his master for as long as he lives.
…
This Old Testament scene suggests another picture that I’ll paint for you. One day my eyes opened to see Brenda before me, a woman I’d never known. Seeing value in me, she paid a dear price to have me as her own, giving up her freedom to seek any other to have or to hold. I returned this love, happily receiving the mark of a golden ring that told everyone I was now hers. She was my “master,” to whom I was forever pledged to serve.
Jeezus Christ. *eyeroll*
I refer to my earlier answer: this is indistinguishable from the way voluntary cuckolds write of marriage to their hot-wives.
In the not-too-distant future, barring the inevitable calamity that is due to be caused by these morons collapsing our society, Dalrock will only need to post a sourced quote from one of these stupid books. These people have become such a parody of themselves that further commentary is really superfluous.
And yet, she’ll still leave him as soon as a Man shows up and stirs her up. She’s already left him emotionally. She doesn’t love him. He’s been broken. If he starts teasing her for her silliness, he could set things right. But he won’t.
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Why appeal to her family history? After all, women are always more spiritual than men. </sarcasm>
Funny how when women rule, they are to be completely obeyed, no need for love on their part as the Bible calls on for men. No means to temper their authority. It’s their way or the high way. I’ll be waiting for the ‘equality’ brigade to call this what it is. Abuse. Plain and simple abuse.
I cannot feel sorry for any man who does this. They are pathetic vermin.
Oh by the way. Fuck oneness. They can keep it.
Hahahaha!
“Hi, I’m Fred and this is my master Brenda.”
Sweet lord in heaven, this is serious cult type stuff here! This man and his ilk have transformed the word of God into blasphemous drivel! This isn’t just endangering their manhood, but endangering their eternal souls and the eternal souls of any who follow them! This is one of the “strange doctrines” Paul warns us about!
This dude seriously needs to learn Dread and Amused Mastery.
Him: I’m going out bird hunting, I’ll see you in a week.
Her: Oh yeah? No sex for you for the next month.
Him: Haha, maybe not with you…
20 minutes later:
Her: WTF just happened?
Him: Make me a sammich while I pack my stuff.
Her: I can’t wait till you get back!
No surprise. Social scientists have found porn provides a window into a society’s hidden fantasy, and husband slavery porn is growing in popularity.
As is its subgenre, cuckold porn. Which has become so popular it has become respectable. CNN: “Cuckolding can be positive for some couples, study says”, January 2018.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/25/health/cuckolding-sex-kerner/index.html
There is evidence that much of our problems result from too many weak men. In response American women turn to dominance, divorce, and men from the ghettos and foreign lands. Every action has a reaction.
Understanding the causes of this phenomenon is valuable, but I believe we are beyond the point at which fixing causes can help much. Or rather, fixing the causes can happen only *after* the overall culture is fixed.
Some of the young men who see this are turning to dark wisdom for solutions, easily found in Western history for those that look for it.
I think ol’ Fred had something else nailed to a post…
“Compliance will be rewarded.” – HYDRA
Hey, I recognize this behavior from game conventions. It’s Vampire LARPing! Like Vampire the Masquerade or similar system. Fred is a Thrall to Mistress and is mentally compelled to obey Mistress’ commands until he gets bitten by a more powerful Vampire. Or something such.
What a way to start my day, once again reminded of the degeneracy and heresy of what passes for Christianity these days.
Whoa, that is creepy! Thanks for going through the painful process of reading and summarizing that garbage. It is far worse than I could have imagined. What a sad state of affairs that people don’t realize how anti-Christian that is.
This is just pathetic. Literally turns my stomach. Are you absolutely sure Christians are buying this? I know that’s a stupid question. I know you’re not reaching or stretching in any way. It’s just mind-boggling, is all. How is it even possible to turn the word of God completely upside down like this and get Christians to go along with it? Again, I don’t expect an answer to that question because it’s obviously actually happening, even if it does take my breath away with its audacity. These men need to repent, and so do their husbands.
Uhm, is this femdom porn? Truth or fiction? People live like this?
The rock song title, “Lunatic Fringe” came immediately to mind partway through reading this post. I am a confessor to believing and supporting similar lies as a believer in the 90s and for the next 20 years.
There are many of her in the pews, it is maddening the church refuses to acknowledge and apply the Word to such as her in sermons and small groups.
I confess I always thought this site was exaggerating the feminization of pop Christianity a little but these quotes are nauseating. Simply unrecognizable to historical Christianity. Sounds like Dan Brown more than anything else.
And speaking of historical Christianity, if her family was Christian for 4 generations and that gives her super powers, what do I get? My family’s likely been Christian for about 75-80 generations. I should be able to see the future and levitate.
Cripes…..is he restricted to one potty break an hour, like jailed prisoners? Never saw a straight-up Dom/Sub relationship dressed up in “Christian” terms quite like this before…
Quite literally nauseating.
Male submissives are creepy af.
Like this asshole.
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2017/10/10/lesser-beta-of-the-month-the-mewling-male-feminist/
There is evidence that many of our problems result from too many weak men deliberately bred by a gynocentric society, aided/enforced by its male enablers (who profit short-term) . In the next planned response American women turn to dominance, divorce, and men from the ghettos and foreign lands. Every <deiberate course of action has a planned and executed reaction.
Modified – I didn’t want anyone to read the original and think that American women are ‘forced’ to dominate weak men because they “have no choice(as the ‘women in combat’ apologists say).”
This is a matriarchal cult. It’s what feminists imagine Teh Patriarchy looks like, because they always project their own fantasies onto others.
Any churchgoing man who finds this book in his church needs to find another church. Then he needs to raise a solid protest, rubbing the ugliness of this book into as many faces as possible.
Arterburn is of the Baby Boom generation, so he wasn’t exposed to much of the feminization that is now common in the K – 12 and University training centers. Perhaps he drank too deeply of 2nd stage feminism in the 70’s and 80’s.
Fred Stoeker’s bio has all the right words in it. He looks to be a late Baby Boomer.
https://waterbrookmultnomah.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Fred-Stoeker-Author-Bio.pdf
I wonder how many people who buy such books ever do more than just skim them and put them on a shelf for social proof when their friends come to visit?
Hunting only two days a year?!?!? I bet he wears a pink pussy hunting cap. If I didn’t read these articles, I would assume it’s satire. Most of what is called Christianity in the West is a joke and nothing but new age witchcraft.
@GetAlongHome;
These men need to repent, and so do their husbands.
Intentional or typo? Either way.. Oh how I laughed!
I’m left speechless after this one. Normally they hide their tracks a little better so the less discerning gladly march to their slaughter but they seem to come out into the open more everyday. thanks Dalrock
Women, the apostle of Satan, challenging the word of God by answering with a resounding ‘No, God hath not said!” …the most damning ‘no’ of all time. And Gen 3:16 tells us that women continues that apostleship with her desire for the word [command] of her man, for his authority; and he is the apostle of Christ, commanded to rule over her with the Word.
“Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms” Hosea 1:2. Haven’t we all? …for that is our call.
Men have to press through this cross. And women have to submit to their man, so the word of God be not blasphemed.
Maybe Fred Stoeker is full bore, but there are lesser degrees everywhere you look and listen. From the implied submissiveness of “she keeps me straight” and “she married me what an idiot”, to calling a wife The Boss, or Better Half, or (gag!) My Bride.
A man who is Lord and Master in his house can offer grace by uplifting and honoring those beneath him, but saying stuff like that to gain favor is unctuous and literally “ingratiating”. We instinctively recoil from it. Grace requires superior status. Trying to be gracious from below ends up as this unseemly abomination.
All of American Christianity is infected with this, and much of Christianity worldwide. You might not think it is there but that is because these things get glossed over or not discussed in everyday life. You have to start asking pointed questions to find out. And even then, many will use Biblical language but then define it differently. Or talk a good theology but behave differently.
Even the most conservative, anti-feminist, American churches operate from an unGodly female frame.The world’s mindset is their mindset. Now if you really think your church is different, I might start to believe it if your divorce rate is near zero (including the people who moved/left). But even then, the theological rot is deep. Even if you find a highly traditional church totally separate from all of this it is STILL a problem because the genesis of all these issues goes back to the 1100’s and 200’s and even pre-Christ and has infected our theology and lives right down to the very language itself.
Everyone’s infected. Everyone.
Unbelievable. Can’t this ‘man’ find some normal, healthy perversion to engage in, rather than perverting Christianity with his disgusting habits?
“One of the first things Brenda did was take complete control of how, when, and how often Fred interacted with his family.”
Doesn’t the Duluth Model characterize this as ‘abuse’?
Paraphrasing Saul Alinsky, “The personal has become the theological.”
Both Fred and Glenn Stanton have similar marriages. They both married dominant, assertive women that were/are “more spiritually mature than me.” Their wives told them what to do and they now write books about their personal, warped lives.
Eddy Willers
Doesn’t the Duluth Model characterize this as ‘abuse’?
Thread winner.
I discovered how feminist my “conservative” wife was as I went through things that led up to my own divorce. The biggest things that bothered her were acknowledging the truth of what Scripture said.
I had the Every Man’s Battle book at sometime and may still have it today. I am not sure about the other book, though I may have bought it in the past when I bought such things a lot more. I am not sure that I could have looked past such obvious heresy, but I might have, seeing a different point in spite of the text.
I certainly wouldn’t waste time on it now and I find it very repulsive. I have grown away from a lot of the things I read when I was younger. I always read far more than my wife, something that seems odd in the Christian world.
I am no longer surprised at the lengths to which those in “Christian ministry” will go to avoid Ephesians 5.
Fred Stoeker got a lot of play at a church I used to go to, but it’s been nearly 20 years.
What Dalrock says is certainly true regarding men like this. They obviously worship their wives, and yet, when they describe them, the women still come off as such shrews. I think it can’t be helped, given the circumstances.
Since the West – and Christendom – is relying on ‘men’ like Fred to keep the Moors at bay we are in deep water. It will take longer than the 788 years it took the Spanish to drive them out.
My first question is, what the hell were you doing looking under your dad’s bed Fred? Lost your football there? Nice job of blaming your week will on someone else. Cucks never take responsibility! He needed someone to help him stop masturbating to porn and Brenda was the dominant master that made him stop.
Give me a break; what a weak beta wimp.
Hopefully WaterBrook Multnomah’s Tim Tebow book is not also heretical garbage.
Also, Dalrock, were you intending on repeating this phrase so often…
Oneness has terms. Comply with the terms and emotional closeness follows. If you don’t comply, the emotions will die.
I expected you’d have direct quotes regarding each issue, like TV watching etc. Just curious and thanks for this.
OMG i think i wanna vomit, but its really just standard idiot “unfaithful abusive wife” worship that you see going on almost everywhere.
the level of abuse, manipulation, lies, stealing that men in the church and out have been conditioned to receive as “normal” as to be seen to be believed.
they really have swallowed the demonic cult of feminism whole including the hook and the bait and the 300lb fish on the end of it.
ive always said, the minute you grant women the license to kill their unborn with impunity, your society is finished. not only will all women see this as licence to destroy everything (not just their unborn) – God will himself walk away shaking his head and will leave our enemies to destroy us. After all nothing left is worth saving. Old testament level destruction is our only future.
@Minesweeper
Powerful. I have never thought of it like that.
Things are progressing quickly, my wife and I have been discussing recently that many of these institutions cannot be salvaged and need to be done away with entirely because they have become havens of evil and misinformation. (The Evangelical Church being one of them)
My ex-wife was like this, very controlling and convinced that she was in the right. Unless you’ve been married to someone like that you have no idea how persistent they can be in pursuing their objective of complete control in the relationship. They are tireless in this pursuit and utterly ruthless in their attempts to beat you emotionally (and sometimes physically) into submission. Some of the nasty underhanded things that my ex-wife said and did will be with me to my grave.
If you’re not mentally tough enough to resist then you’ll eventually be worn down and capitulate (especially when she threatens to take half your stuff plus alimony and child support). I didn’t and my ex-wife eventually moved on but it sounds like this guy was not strong enough and eventually submitted. So looking at it from that perspective I’d say this is almost a manifestation of Stockholm Syndrome and he needs intervention.
@ys
I decided to repeat it for effect. I assumed this was obvious to readers. It is such a creepy cult like line, and it is the whole point of the book. Read it out loud a few times. Watch the response you get from those around you. The book becomes incredibly repetitive very quickly. Once it says your wife’s “soul essence” is your master, and you need to do whatever she tells you, all of the little examples of her telling you what to do are repetitive. It is all the same thing: comply, comply, comply. What is the right way to have sex? Do as her soul essence commands. What is the right way to wash your face? Do as her soul essence commands. What is the right number of days to go hunting, or the right channel and time to watch TV? It is all the same. But if you need the details, pick up a copy. It is all there.
“Doesn’t the Duluth Model characterize this as ‘abuse’?”
Great point! Of course, it doesn’t because the sexes are reversed. Now, if he would just identify as a woman and she as a man, ….
With thought patterns like that, he’ll probably suicide when she finally leaves him.
I’m surprised that Fredless stopped where he did. I don’t think Fredless is listening to his God/mistress’ “soul-essence” enough. He needs to let her slap one of those locked cages on his thingee so that he can’t ever orgasm again for the rest of his life. After all, sex is messy and messy is not good as it can get in the way of his union with her “soul-essence.” Best to sacrifice that too Fredless, permanently.
Re: my question yesterday about what percentage of Evang churches are “churchian”
My question was not meant to imply that this is only a Protestant problem. But, as an RC, I don’t attend an Evang church, nor do I belong to any of their para church orgs. I was just curious about how common the horror stories told here actually are.
I’ll also add that in my nearly 60 years I have never heard a Priest tell men they must to submit to their wives, or that if she cheats on him that it’s his fault. Not saying there aren’t any like that, but it certainly isn’t wide spread.
What I have heard lately from the pulpit (just once) is that Dreamers deserve amnesty.
Why does this article remind me of the article about “schmoes” creeping on female bodybuilders?
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Seeing value in me, she paid a dear price to have me as her own, giving up her freedom to seek any other to have or to hold. I returned this love, happily receiving the mark of a golden ring that told everyone I was now hers.
If that’s what marriage is then it would have made more sense for Fred to just adopt a modified version of the original slave’s mark and have Brenda drive an awl through his balls.
The title of this post has never been preached on. The idea that the woman’s lack of submission (detailed previously by Paul in Eph. 5) actually leads to “blasphemeo” may be the single most ignored verse in the NT.
What Fred didn’t realize is that his submission does work in the short term only. In the temporary sugar hit of a husband doing a wife’s will, she is happy to the point where she has achieved her manipulation. Once she has achieved it, it’s all over.
Many a man here on this Blog has come to the Red Pill by doing, not just everything his wife has asked him, but the broader society in general, only to find that he is despised for it.
And certainly, good point made, Dalrock, about his wife’s character. The picture he paints of Brenda is that of a very manipulative woman. He does it without even realizing she is manipulative.
To paraphrase Treebeard, there are no words in Entish, Elvish, or the tongues of men to describe how revolting this man is.
@vfmshadow0342
Thanks, man I really needed that laugh!
It could never be preached on in modern churches, since they have trained the women to believe they have a greater understanding of the REAL meaning of the word, since they attend no less then three bible studies a week and two services on Sunday, along with all their books, cd’s, retreats and devotionals, they would merely explain it away as “men just don’t understand the REAL meaning of the scripture”, which God has revealed to their hearts as meaning something entirely different from what it actually means. Since God speaks to her too, what need does she have to listen to her husband, or any many who doesn’t toe the Christo-feminist line?
@TMAC
The title of this post has never been preached on. The idea that the woman’s lack of submission (detailed previously by Paul in Eph. 5) actually leads to “blasphemeo” may be the single most ignored verse in the NT.
I hadn’t considered this before, but you’re right. I grew up in the church, used to download sermon podcasts on a regular basis, lost count of how many “marriage messages” I’ve heard or seen advertised from Christian teachers — and I still can’t think of any time I heard a preacher direct this verse towards the ladies as a warning about how their rebellion will bring dishonor to God Himself.
But somehow there’s still no shortage of pastors happy to use the last words of 1 Peter 3:7 to tell husbands that God will be happy to turn His back on them when they aren’t sufficiently considerate with their wives.
The effeminate will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
”Or do you not know that the unrighteous ones will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,”
1 Corinthians 6:9
”Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.”
1 Corinthians 16:13
Not as the current churchianity defines masculinity which is effeminate. But one that is based in Strength,Honor,Mastery and Courage.
@infowarrior1, I’d rather be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.
https://biblehub.com/topical/e/effeminate.htm
That last paragraph is really creepy.
Downward Spiral on March 6, 2018 at 12:45 pm
@GetAlongHome;
These men need to repent, and so do their husbands.
Intentional or typo? Either way.. Oh how I laughed!”
Totes intentional. You wouldn’t call these creatures wives, would you? That might offend their essence!
This book actually got published? And then a person bought a copy? And read it? Why, how?
Sickening. Like Nazi-death-camp sickening.
Two days a year?
He starts with three? Days? A year?
That´s not a hobby at all, that´s something you´ve almost tried but can´t really remember.
Eddie Willers says:
March 6, 2018 at 1:38 pm
“One of the first things Brenda did was take complete control of how, when, and how often Fred interacted with his family.”
Doesn’t the Duluth Model characterize this as ‘abuse’?
Only if done by a man to a woman. The sort of thing you have described, they see as laudable retributive justice, wonderful empowerment for a woman, etc., etc. If done by a queer to another queer, or by one lesbo to another lesbo, they’re tongue-tied, as there’s no woman to hold above a normal man, regardless of merit. (Consider the glee Lorena Bobbit aroused in millions of women.) Glenn Sacks used to have an article spelling out the first part of this, “Why I Didn’t Marry A Jewish Woman”. Some women were discussing a conflict between two women, and could never reach a conclusion about it, as there was no man involved to blame. (I’d hunt it down, but posting links tends to get my posts deleted.)
And to think… I actually bought these books when I was married… and nearly became this guy before I divorced and was wakened by a Brother to Red Pill awareness…
Fred done be hypnotized by Brenda – else they share an interest in BDSM fetish, with her the domme and him the slave. Don’t know how it could be looked at any other way. Describing their relationship as ‘creepy’ does dis-service to creeps everywhere!
The most charitable interpretations of this are still pretty bad. Maybe he just confused submission with compromise and so got confused. The simplest explanation are deeply disturbing. And the uncharitable interpretations are down right Satanic.
The poor guy has Stockholm syndrome and is living out the misery feminists imagine every man wants to impose on this spouse. But your would be hard pressed to find the most patriarchal household run this rigid and with this much abasement. Even the roles were flipped this would still be completely wrong and reflection of a totally controlling marriage. Flipping the roles just makes it into cuck porn.
That was my impression as well. I thought this was a post about a work of fiction.
Thanks Dalrock.
Thought I had a copy buried on my bookshelf, and your series inspired me to look the other day but now I can’t find it. Must have tossed it already but either way, I’m not paying for another copy.
Odd thing too one wouldn’t expect:
I said that this stuff was pretty big when I was a late teen. Well, Fred actually spoke at my church at that time. What I remember the most now, looking back, is that Fred was a big-time jock-type in high school. Star quarterback and recruited to play D-I football. Not the kind you would think would write as he does.
And pastors today lamet, shame, belittle the men of their flocks to “marry” and “ask her out, girls don’t bite” or “you’re all a bunch of wussies”
Yet in Bible studies, in fellowship, in men’s groups this drivel is taught…..and the damage is especially detrimental to boys raised up and in the church. We’re seeing the results of this now.
I was attending a Wednesday night service at another church (I usually work Sundays, so I rarely get to go to my own Corps for Sunday Holiness). They had the “youth” come out and sing a few songs. All “I’m in love with Jesus songs” and not age appropriate (middle school kids singing first grade / kindergarten songs). It made me cringe in my seat.
I asked after the service a man I knew “what are the activities for youth here like”
He prodly stated “Brother, you saw it tonight, we have music, singing, dance and Bible classes for them”
I was thinking, a middle school aged boy needs to be out in the woods, the forest. He needs to be challenged in His creation. He needs to be learning a sport, learning teamwork, sportsmanship, and the mark of young manhood. He needs to be taught how to think. To stand. These “love songs to Jesus” are not going to cut it while he defends his faith, and stands on the morality of Christ when tempations come. “Jesus loves me” won’t stop bullies. It won’t gibve answers when he is piut into sitiuations where he may succumb to peer pressure. Not against singing. Men sing. Not against a young boy learning an instrument.
It’s no wonder many LEAVE the day they turn 18 and go off to college, the trades……or in many cases…just stay home.
AS for bird hunting. Two days a year? How kind of her. A day to drive to the wilderness area to make camp. A few hours to hunt, then turn around and come home and have a “honey do” list waiting for him. When does he practice? Is allowed to keep the shotgun(s) in the home, or at a friends house? His buddies are probably resentful because they want a few days to hunt, but their friend is on a tight leash.
She did this on purpose so he would end up dropping it.
Any woman I ever (if I ever do) get involved with who tells me, “Honey, you can have two days a year to go camping / hiking” is not worth marrying.
Any woman who would try to control me, especially like that, would not succeed. That is one reason my wife finally rebelled against God and chose the divorce route. She knew she could not control me, yet she was unwilling to joyfully follow my lead. She made up enough things to get cover from the church we attended, but she never had any valid reason and the people in that church still need to repent. Yet they almost certainly are going on proclaiming “male only leadership” and “divorce is not an option” all while following the feminist imperative, letting the pastor’s wife rule, even if unofficially.
Jason,
“Yet in Bible studies, in fellowship, in men’s groups this drivel is taught…..and the damage is especially detrimental to boys raised up and in the church.”
You nailed it, these teachings and female led marriages are very damaging to boys raised in the church. It screws up both the boys and the girls. The boys become more effeminate as they grow up and the girls ape their mothers rebellious, controlling leadership.
@American:
Slightly offtopic —
Can anyone recommend a GOOD marriage book? I have an engaged nephew that I am very concerned for. Long story short — he is 24, passive and bookish by temperment, betrothed to a nice girl from what looks like a good family, but who is assertive and outspoken by temperment. She is already encouraging him to take a lesser job so that they can live nearer her family.
His father, my brother, is a Southern Baptist pastor and a natural alpha male, but one who does not preach what he practices. Fan of Fireproof and “servant leadership.” I am the favorite uncle, but also the only divorced one in the family; any advice I give has to come in the “here are the things I learned too late” or mold (such as, “Ignore the Stephen Arturbrun books people keep giving you.”).
Any suggestions welcomed!
Can anyone recommend a GOOD marriage book?
The two books “for men” and “for women” by Shaunti Feldhahn are a good start, and since they will be found in the “Christian” section of the chain bookstore the father should have no objections. Although the section in “For Women” on Shaunti’s husband’s “visual Rolodex” is not so good, because Not All Men Are Like That, and it’s quite possible your nephew is a NAMALT. She doesn’t need to get that idea too embedded.
Your nephew may well be living in the shadow of an Only Real Man In The Room / AMOG. Perhaps moving away from his immediate family yet not so close to hers could be a benefit.
You should read Rollo’s books and evaluate them for yourself. Concentrated Red Pill / a really strong pair of The Glasses can be a shock to a deeply blue pilled man, setting back his progress.
“Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands” by Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a decent book. Shaunti Feldman, read her book “for men only” and it was a bunch of claptrap…..claims a “biblical” worldview but talks about “evolution” and how men are naturally “hunters” and “predators”
I have long thought highly of Debi Pearl’s “Created To Be His Helpmeet”. Does any red-pilled male here have a substantive disagreement about her book?
Thanks for the ideas. I’d love to give him something like Rollo Tomassi, but that would be waaay to strong a medicine for him. I will look into
“Your nephew may well be living in the shadow of an Only Real Man In The Room / AMOG.”
No, it’s more just that he’s a naturally confident man who married a naturally submissive wife, and just can’t quite understand people that aren’t. During my marriage breakup, he advised me to do the “40 day love challenge” When I did and things were still deteriorating, he literally had no other advice. He understands the issue and the problem facing his son, but his own temperment and the fact that his training/reading/background is red-pill leaves him at a loss for what to do.
Actually, I’ll share an an anecdote for the this-is-the-state-of-Complementarianism file. A few years ago, he preached a ten-part sermon series on marriage. In the first ten minutes of sermon #2, he identified himself as a firm complematarian; he defined the term, and said egalitarianism was unbiblical. And then, in the rest of the 9 1/2 sermons, discussing various issues and challenges in marriage, not once did he ever discuss gender roles or differing responsibility; literally all of the actual teaching was egalitarian.
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I am no longer surprised at the lengths to which those in “Christian ministry” will go to avoid Ephesians 5.
Anyone who does so demonstrates that they are ashamed of Scripture, which in turn strips them of not only any credibility, but also of any right to preach any portion of the Gospel whatsoever.
Shmohawk,
Taking a lesser paying job to live close to family can have merit, when considered in context. Connection with family is very undervalued today. Many also don’t consider the benefits (which can end up saving money, perhaps even enough to make up for the lower salary) of being close to family with children.
I don’t know what your nephew needs to do, but don’t discard the idea out of hand just because his future wife recommends it.
My T level just dropped 20% from reading this post.
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I must add that the mystic vagina thing sounds pretty cool….ya? An earring too? Gold? Mr. Clean like?
The two books “for men” and “for women” by Shaunti Feldhahn are a good start,
I strongly disagree. Her style is intentionally ambiguous. As she presents the facts of her study (wh/ presumably she’s not lying about the interviews) she throws out specific rhetorical comments made by women. She addresses their truth value, b/c they are presented as though it’s just a dry fact that someone made that comment. But they are presented explicitly to have influence. They are presented as though they are truths made by women, not just that “it’s true women believe this.”
I don’t recommend her books, I think they add fuel to this fire.
oh i know the feeling, when my wife told me she didnt love me anymore i went total and complete panic mode and i would have done anything to get her back or keep her and i mean anything, i know better now and of course she did leave me for another man
shmohawk1
AMOG?
No, it’s more just that he’s a naturally confident man who married a naturally submissive wife, and just can’t quite understand people that aren’t. During my marriage breakup, he advised me to do the “40 day love challenge” When I did and things were still deteriorating, he literally had no other advice.
Classic description of a natural Alpha who by fortune or blessing or chance married well. These men are sort of like natural athletes who can’t understand why some are unable to perform at their level.
He understands the issue and the problem facing his son,
No. He doesn’t. Based on the previous paragraph, he has no clue. Likely he married back in the 1980’s, before VAWA, when Duluth wasn’t as wide spread, when YouGoGrrl wasn’t a thing, when Title IX had not grown into the monstrous cancer it is now.
Test this? Sure, ask preacher man what percentage of divorce actions are filed by women. I predict he won’t even be close to the right anser.
but his own temperment and the fact that his training/reading/background is red-pill leaves him at a loss for what to do.
Right, no clue. Probably told his son a few years back how to attract a woman: “Just be yourself!”
Actually, I’ll share an an anecdote for the this-is-the-state-of-Complementarianism file. A few years ago, he preached a ten-part sermon series on marriage. In the first ten minutes of sermon #2, he identified himself as a firm complematarian; he defined the term, and said egalitarianism was unbiblical. And then, in the rest of the 9 1/2 sermons, discussing various issues and challenges in marriage, not once did he ever discuss gender roles or differing responsibility; literally all of the actual teaching was egalitarian.
This is classic. He’s living one way in his actions, but he’s telling all other men to live another way. “Don’t do as I do, do as I say”. It is certain that he cannot see this, because natural Alphas are not known for self-reflection / self-observation. Worse yet, any advice he gives will be contaminated with the equalist egalitarian equalism that he’s been brainwashed with at seminary, conferences, etc.
Agree that Rollo’s medicine is way too strong.
I repeat an observation: it might be a good idea for your nephew and his wife to move away from both families for a while.
DrTorch on Shaunti Feldhahn
I don’t recommend her books, I think they add fuel to this fire.
It’s been about 3 years since I looked them over, I should go and re-read them with clearer vision.
By submitting to their wives these men choose to follow Adam instead of Jesus. And the fall of mankind continues! The hardest thing is to choose to be a spiritual son speaking truth (in love) to our flesh (our wife). It takes real faith as courage and obedience to put God ahead of our fleshly lusts.
It’s seems these gentlemen should re-title their book; “A Christian Husband’s Guide To Being Pussy-whipped.” Regarding a slave choosing to stay with his master, it is Jesus Christ that men are supposed to choose to remain a slave to. He is a man’s first and ONLY love. These verses are an explanation for the process of becoming a worthy son made in the image of the Christ. To become the son Adam wasn’t. And neither is anyone who follows in his path – like the authors of this book. Jesus is a man’s Lord and Master and a husband is a wife’s lord and master made in the image of Sarah. It is through submission and obedience to this hierarchy as God established it that we demonstrate our faith and the law of Love is fulfilled. The result of this is “one flesh” with God and our spouse or intimacy.
Joseph V. Barruso,
Indeed, Jesus is the Christian man’s only master, but He should not be his “ONLY love”. For example, Jesus commanded that we love one another.
If that’s too broad for you, then consider that the Christian husband is commanded to love his wife.