There are a few other points of interest in the chart I shared in my last post. First is that the early gap in never married rates closes starting in men’s early thirties until it reaches parity in the 41 to 43 cohort. This fits with women’s desire to delay marriage, not forgo it entirely. The goal is to not waste a day more of their youth and fertility on their husband than absolutely necessary. The goal is not to avoid marriage altogether, nor wait so long that their fertility window has entirely closed. I’ll share some charts later in the week on women’s never married rates by age, but for now I’ll note that a flurry of marriage for men in their early 30s to early 40s matches with a flurry of marriage for women in their late 20s to late 30s.
But what is surprising in the chart is that after rough parity with the past occurs (around age 38-43), a new gap opens up. I’m open to suggestions on what this new gap might mean, but it strikes me that this is the pattern we would expect to see if there were in fact men on a “marriage strike”*. Men refusing to marry wouldn’t necessarily show up in the 20-30 cohorts because women are the ones with the SMP/MMP power then. They also wouldn’t show up in the 30 something cohorts (when women are frantic to marry), so long as there are other men the women can still substitute for the “strikers”. But eventually the pool of substitutes will run out, and this is where a strike would show up in the data.
Another explanation would be that this represents a group of men who aren’t desirable for marriage, whether or not they would be willing to marry. Either way, the initial impact would have been felt by women ten years ago in the form of a shortage of prospective husbands for mid to late 30s women (just as they are scrambling to marry). This fits with the panic we saw in the Atlantic and other outlets starting in 2008.
For either explanation (men on strike, or men who didn’t prepare to take on the provider role), the obvious catalyst would be the divorce explosion of the late 1970s and early 1980s. We would expect that this would impact the view of marriage by Gen X and to a lesser degree, Boomer II men, which fits perfectly with the data.
*Strike is being used loosely in this case since the men are not boycotting something they want in an effort to negotiate a better deal at a societal level, but have decided that marriage isn’t something they want.
Pingback: Evidence of a “marriage strike”? | @the_arv
I wouldn’t say we don’t want marriage. Marriage is just nearly impossible under these conditions.
Just as devastating every time you write it.
it’s possible, but in that age range I’d say it’s likely the hard cases of men who are not desirable for marriage, coupled with women gaining ever more economic strength so as choosing to avoid marrying such men in greater numbers. In 2003 more of these men were still being picked by women for marriage than now, because women are even further ahead now than they were then (especially after 2008), so the women are just not marrying these guys any longer. I expect *that* trend will certainly continue.
Novaseeker,
To continue an earlier point, yes, the thirst of beta males seems infinite. There is no shortage of women who manage to marry even if they are age 40, or even if they are single mothers.
BUT…
Don’t underestimate the ability of fanatics to go too far. I finally think there is something that will substantially kill the thirst of cuckservatives and manginas.
Transgenderism.
What a perverted state of mind one must have to believe they can change their gender when their chromosomes are XX if female and XY if male. This is stunningly ignorant of basic science. And yet, this lunacy is being pushed. Most transgenders appear to be MtoF.
Now usually, the trans in question is too ugly to pass for a woman. But their techniques seem to be improving, and younger ones are able to pass for 5s. The typical blue-pill cuckservative or mangina cannot aim higher than that, and will be delighted that a 5 who is interested in sports, cars, or video games now wants to date them.
Then, eventually, the extreme shock. The ‘Crying Game’ moment for the cuckservative/mangina.
This is will be hilarious and well-deserved. And while trans people are still just a tiny fraction of people, I believe that fear of this will FINALLY get many cuckservative men to take pause. Their thirst will be killed. Plus, in the very near future, there will be VR Sex that does in fact feature real women.
This outcome will also be well-earned for carousel-riding women. If large numbers of men avoid dating now that this ADDITIONAL risk has been added from just the 0.5% of ‘women’ that are actually men, then women will become extremely angry.
Any day now, we will see a headline of some real XX women complaining that MtoF trannies have scared off men to an extent that the XX woman’s dating prospects have shrunk.
The point is, they will eventually destroy (or otherwise fail to thwart the redirection into VR of) the seemingly endless male thirst.
@Novaseeker
I haven’t posted the charts yet, but the most recent data for women I was able to pull shows that just as many White non Hispanic women had married by age 45 in 2016 as had in 2004 (actually slightly more). In 2004 8.9% of 40 year old White Non Hispanic women had ever married. The same figure for 2016 was 8.6! This doesn’t mean the men we see in the second separation weren’t left over because they were deemed too undesirable, but it does mean that women aren’t just skipping marriage more than in the past.
Lots of ladyboys in southeast asia. It hasn’t destroyed beta male thirst there.
Dalrock,
But what is surprising in the chart is that after parity is met, a new gap opens up.
It appears these are the men who are already destroyed in divorce. They have been fully harvested. They have no net worth, and keep only 20% of their income. Some don’t want to marry again, but some are so blue pill that they still want to, but just don’t have any more money to be harvested so women don’t want them.
Mycroft Jones,
i) I doubt normal, heterosexual men have any interest in those ‘ladyboys’.
ii) I doubt those ladyboys are trying to trick heterosexual men in a Crying Game manner. In those types of poor countries, that can lead to a swift and brutal death. Whereas in the US, there is actual media pressure to shame heterosexual men who don’t want to date MtoF trans freaks. Pretty soon, cuckservatives will join in this shaming. Men will be told to ‘man up’ and marry an MtoF, XY chromosome man. That won’t work.
As much as I would like to see this as a strike, I suspect Dalrock and Nova are correct that there are just more men seen by women as not a suitable paring (some for being hipster slackers and some because women are economically favored)
That being said, I suspect it has more with the slacking off part and women’s heightened sense of entitlement than it does with actual income levels. Status is more important than $.
I have yet to see a woman of any income level that isn’t a complete financial disaster, they all spend more than they make, women don’t care where the money comes from as long as they can spend it.
And to be blunt I used to feel sorry for men that get divorce raped. I don’t anymore. Its all there, its all plain as day, and every single man that gets married today thinks he’s better than the ones that got divorced, and thinks he’s better than all the men that came before because she married him. This smug sense of pride goeth before a fall.
Where I think you see the real marriage boycott is in the remarriage rates. The rate of men getting remarried (which used to be higher than women’s remarriage rates) is dropping rapidly. So I think that’s where the pinch is coming, more men aren’t suitable, and more men aren’t sign off a second time.
I think it is a mix of the latter.
Certainly a good number of these men aged 44-64 are regarded as “undesirable” or “unfit” for marriage by what is probably the most conceited, protected, privileged, financially independent and entitled swath of females the world has ever seen, or ever will see again.
By “undesirable” and “unfit” I mean in the sense that such men do not, cannot or will not meet any of the customary “alpha fucks” or “beta bucks” qualifiers to a sufficient degree.
Some examples:
1. They are fat, and or physically ill.
2. They have no purpose, or direction.
3. They have no “real” job (one that signal’s he is a viable, long-term provider to her).
4. Lack of social connections and status.
But I think the majority are not “losers” at all. They probably just don’t see much value in marriage given the costs vs.benefits. High legal and financial risks and burdens against rather paltry benefits. These men have witness 40 to 60 years of feminist dogma. They know first hand as latch key kids, with divorced working moms coming home from work at 8:00 pm to 9:00 p.m. with shitty take out food every school night, that husbands and fathers are the crud that society wants to scrape off of its boots.
These dudes are ignored, ridiculed and derided, but almost across the board voted for Trump.
Some of them have jeeps, boats and cabins by the lake though, and have a lot of girlfriends.
It would be interesting to dive into that pool of guys and find out what’s going on.
@Anon
They can’t have been divorced because they have never married. However, it is possible they never prepared to be a provider, or were hit hard by child support.
Anon,
I have heard the “beta thirst” will end since before the manosphere was called the manosphere.
I have yet to see it.
I would like to see it, but tattoos haven’t done it, a displeasing personality hasn’t done it, huge notch counts haven’t done it, obesity hasn’t done it, acting mannish hasn’t done it, feminism hasn’t done it.
And since we’re using the “crying game” moment as a metaphor, it is probably fitting to remind everyone that the beta that had that moment in the movie ends up going to prison for the MtF to protect xer.
The last scene is the MtF visiting him in prison.
It’s probably a combo of a lot of things…certainly the current legal system which is set up to purposely destroy marriage and giving the wife all the short term incentive to do so is a big deterrent for older men who did ‘the right thing’ and bulit up a good provider status life. Given how unjust the system is along with (in theory) your sex drive being slightly lower than when you were a horny teen many men are making the more logical decision unless she proves otherwise…there’s little incentive to marry in the secular scheme of things.
“*Strike is being used loosely in this case since the men are not boycotting something they want in an effort to negotiate a better deal at a societal level, but have decided that marriage isn’t something they want.”
no i would say they are boycotting – individually, marriage is something they want just not in this way. women always tend to operate as a group anyway, men are far more individualistic. which is probably why women arn’t getting the message as to what men are thinking of the “new deal”
Also, some of these guys have a lot of money and a lot of accountability/responsibility in other endeavors (business, etc.). They are just entering or well past their top earning years.
Chances are 2 or 3 members of their family were affected by divorce. Same with work colleagues. These guys probably personally had friends who got divorced, lost everything and killed themselves.
Southern California is crawling with such men. They are not sad or down on their luck at all.
They are at the beach surfing, hiking, sailing and fishing or smoking some cigars and drinking beer with their buddies. No longer idealists. They are realists.
“The goal is to not waste a day more of their youth and fertility on their husband than absolutely necessary.”
Her goal is to amplify and maximize her “alpha fucks” sexual strategy.
Just look at the charts.
There ARE no consequences for her doing this. None.
Because there are legions of men more than willing to marry these high mileage, carousel cowgirls.
The growth in number of such men in this group reflects growing female indignation among the HB4-HB6 crowd. The one who wrote those articles and nodded in agreement.
They are NOT going to “settle hard”.
In 2004 8.9% of 40 year old White Non Hispanic women had ever married. The same figure for 2016 was 8.6! This doesn’t mean the men we see in the second separation weren’t left over because they were deemed too undesirable, but it does mean that women aren’t just skipping marriage more than in the past.
That’s interesting — I suppose they are either marrying younger men or they are marrying guys who have already been married to someone else rather than the guys in 40-60 who have never been married. That makes it look to me like women are deliberately avoiding those guys for marriage.
CC: Just as devastating every time you write it.
“The goal is to not waste a day more of their youth and fertility on their husband than absolutely necessary.”
—-
Yes, that’s really the depressing thing about it. Their youth is for fun and (sexual) exploration.
Then it’s time for cold, hard, business…time to ‘settle down’ from fun.
She has specific things she wants from you –
financial provisioning during her nesting years – and then why not shift back into the fun life again after that? Many do.
Women don’t really like being married, or being wives. It something they do only when they want safety and provisioning.
I have two friends that are in their late 50’s and never married. Both of them are well aware of the dangers of being divorced raped and want no part of it. Both are happily fornicating away their lives with a combination of FB’s and escorts and have no intention of ever getting married. And the number of divorced raped men that I know keeps on climbing, many being divorced in their 50’s (myself included) and instead of looking forward to retirement are now stuck with lifetime alimony payments to the ex (this being California, man I wish that I had moved to Texas a few years ago).
The gap is interesting, in that the ‘never married” bars for women continue to decline while men sort of level off. It is possible that this gap is evidence of remarriage by frivorced men and nonmarriage by “confirmed bachelors”.
Being in my late 40s, I’m squarely in that men’s marriage strike zone.
After financially recovering (sort of) from a divorce, I can’t really take the risk of another financial ‘event’. I want to retire some day!
I like female companionship and all, but marriage only makes sense with young women.
Dalrock,
However, it is possible they never prepared to be a provider, or were hit hard by child support.
Yes, child support is probably what it is. 41% of babies in the US are now born out of wedlock, which means tons of men are under a 19-23 year yoke even if they never married. Many just won’t marry because the CS trap got them before marriage.
@constrainedlocust
I agree. The idea that men are sitting around moping, hopelessly, waiting on a wife seems strange to me. I know too many guys that live like this. Maybe they married once when they were young and had a couple kids, but never again. They might even have a live in girlfriend, which saves them nothing in domestic court, but they won’t marry.
Marriage just isn’t a goal anymore until you get desparate and lonely. And then it’s usually one sided.
@Jonathan Castle
My mother in law just got married for the third time at sixty to a guy who has never been married. She divorced my father in law twenty years ago because she was in love with her gym buddy who dumped her as soon as she was single. She’s now got lupus and wants to retire and this guy insists they keep separate finances. She’s outraged. She also thinks she should be able to quit her job and he told her he’s not picking up any more hours to pay bills. I can’t find it in myself to feel sorry for her.
Ras al Ghul,
The decline in thirst is already there. Tons of cuckservatives are screeching about how video games are the worst thing ever invented, since they have made it harder to force men into marriage. While these cuckservatives are driven by greed, not fear, they are quite angry about the small loss of thirst that has already happened.
You need to watch the Jim Gay-ratty video again to see how livid cuckservatives are about video games :
I know many single women in the mid-40s through 50s demographic you highlight. Mostly lifetime singles but some divorcées.
These women have active social lives that predominantly involve hanging out with other single women in the same age group. If you have friends in this age group on Facebook, you can easily see this yourself by the pictures they post. They also do things like solo international travel. They don’t generally have close friends outside of their peer group. My theory is that as they hit 40, the trajectory of life they have versus their former friends who got married largely sunders those close relationships, though they may remain at a much more distant level. This gradually shunts them into a single woman ghetto. They are much, much less happy with life than they are letting on. Some are outright miserable.
And yet, I was speaking to a person who was a long time assistant pastor at one of America’s most prominent megachurches. He tells me that these women have basically made peace with being single. They might want to be married, but at this point in their lives they aren’t willing to make the fundamental compromises that would take. They think, “I’m too old to go through this again, trying to work something out with a guy and spend more precious years in something that’s only going to be frustrating and probably not work out in the end.” I think he’s is probably right.
Off Topic: Wouldn’t it be more progressive to attend school naked?
https://pjmedia.com/trending/new-dress-code-for-california-school-district-must-cover-genitals-buttocks-and-nipples/
Unsurprisingly, the author still doesn’t get it.
She’s part of the problem, and doesn’t even realize it.
“My mother in law just got married for the third time at sixty to a guy who has never been married….. She’ now got lupus and wants to retire and this guy insists they keep separate finances.”
Oh snap! Staying unmarried is the only legal way to separate finances. He’s over a barrel now.
Dang, nothing like playing it safe with women until you’re 60 (or whatever he is) and then pulling the gr3n@de on your finances right before retirement.
The thing is attractive women at almost any age can pose as wonderful companions. Men have to be steely-eyed to assess the risks…
Today I think 40+ men can get companionship without legal and financial entanglements.
@Oscar
It is strange that she can’t see this, nor can I expect nearly all conservatives.
@Neguy
“My theory is that as they hit 40, the trajectory of life they have versus their former friends who got married largely sunders those close relationships, though they may remain at a much more distant level. This gradually shunts them into a single woman ghetto. They are much, much less happy with life than they are letting on. Some are outright miserable.”
Very interesting theory. Makes sense from what I have observed also.
There are a lot of women in this 28-45 still never married bracket. They are leading active lives – working long hours, making good coin, getting back into fitness, pursuing hobbies, glued to social networks on their cell phone, hanging with her girlfriends even if they are married. They are buying expensive jewelry and nice cards for themselves. I don’t know what their debt-to-income ratio looks like. Probably not great.
I think it is challenge to gauge their true happiness though. We hear and read about an awful lot of complaining and anger, and you can also see a lot of tears and melancholy in this crowd. Almost like they are a herd of brooding Ally McBeals.
But I agree with you that its likely that now over the next 5 to 10 years, as marriage rates disintegrate further, more women will come to accept their lot in life as single ladies and just move on. Spackle some makeup and lipstick over whatever lies underneath and call it a day..
@Jonathan Castle
I know she’s my mother in law, but she’s really not attractive. She has the personality of the annoying, nagging friend in teen dramas and the habits of a koala. Exciting to her is sitting on the beach all day in a chair or taking a walk.
It is strange that she can’t see this, nor can I expect nearly all conservatives.
Certainly not conservative fathers of daughters.
He tells me that these women have basically made peace with being single. They might want to be married, but at this point in their lives they aren’t willing to make the fundamental compromises that would take.
Yes. The older you get, the more “set” you get, so the less willing/interested you are in compromising. That’s men and women alike, but men still have the thirst at older ages, whereas for many women once menopause comes along, poof goes the libido (not all women, but many women), so they have even less interest in compromising. Remember, the average age of meno in the US is 51, and the range generally runs from 48-55, so for women who have always been single once they hit meno … likely just not interested in marrying any longer.
@ Dalrock
Indeed! And thanks for fixing my HTML error.
@neguy
Solo international travel for cougars has only one purpose.
@Ras
You pays your money and you takes your chances. Success or failure in marriage is part your action and part things you can’t control. Humility is key in understanding you can’t control everything, but you’ll give it your best shot, everyday. Complacency, lack of emotional intelligence, blinding pride, and a false set of premises are the guarantors of failure in marriage.
None of that ever means a man should not give it his best shot, every day.
Feminism is about diminishing modesty and discriminating against treating women with dignity. How you present something shapes how the audience views it.
What they do is seek to control the language narrative so that by saying girls should dress with some dignity in school (or on the tennis court) it’s called ‘body shaming’ and ‘discrimination’.
@ vfm7916
It’s a scam!!!!
But meh feelz!!!!
Funny how women can be somewhat rational when it’s not their feelings being influenced.
Off Topic but I guess these women and their knights in pink armor will fit in the thread now.
Looking for something else, I found the church ladies of the Junia Project. An outfit to be aware of if you’re not already, and the kind of women that ought to have an affect on marriage minded young men of the faith.
https://juniaproject.com/
We are a volunteer community of women and men advocating for the inclusion of women in leadership in the Christian church and for mutuality in marriage. We believe that when interpreted correctly, the Bible teaches that both men and women are called to serve at all levels of the Church, and that leadership should be based primarily on gifting and not on gender.
Who was Junia? you probably were not asking yourself. I’ll let these good church ladies explain –
The Junia Project is named for Junia, a woman apostle in the early church (see Romans 16:7). Her ministry in partnership with Andronicus and Paul reminds us that God’s intention is for men and women to partner together as equals in the home, the church, and the community.
Don’t know her? Here’s why –
Though widely accepted as a woman apostle throughout early Church history, in later translations an “s” was added to the end of her name, making it into a masculine form, Junias. What was the reasoning behind this – was it a scribe’s mistake? Or could it have been something more political, like an attempt to deny that women could be apostles?
The patriarchy changed her into a man because…you know the rest.
@Oscar
Dalrock
It is strange that she can’t see this, nor can I expect nearly all conservatives.
I read her sentences as Libertarian sarcasm. She’s making a utilitarian argument, “The schools need to teach students how to be professional, and this isn’t that at all”. It’s the kind of argument that works well with other Libertarians and many conservatives, but it fails to persuade many others. Because you can’t use logic to change someone’s emotions, and the whole dress code issue really boils down to a pretty obvious emotion [1]. I see a whiff of equalitarian equalism of the “women are just like men except boobs / babies” in there, but that might just be me.
Anyone else hearing a certain song from Frozen in their head right about now? “No rules for meeeee!” Really, the policy is a logical one in California, no doubt many aging Boomer ex-hippies are celebrating the freedom…
[1] Rebellion against authority, especially of the “F-U, DAD!” variety. That goes for the school girls dressing slutty as well as their mothers.
vfm7916
Solo international travel for cougars has only one purpose.
Does not! There’s Eat and Pray, too!
“I finally think there is something that will substantially kill the thirst of cuckservatives and manginas. Transgenderism.”
“I doubt normal, heterosexual men have any interest in those ‘ladyboys’.”
In Thailand it’s a running joke how many normal-looking Western dudes cavort with ladyboys. Are they less expensive? More enthusiastic? Or do guys get so sated with easy poon that they need something more perverse to get excited? When reproduction is off the table, does it really matter if your girlfriend has (or used to have) a dick?
vfm7916
Complacency, lack of emotional intelligence, blinding pride, and a false set of premises are the guarantors of failure in marriage.
“Premises” must include a proper understanding of women, i.e. a good pair of The Glasses / fully digested Red Pill. Best put on before marriage, but more than one Betaized man has learned to see clearly later on. This is the harder path to follow, though.
NB: Dalrock came up with the term “The Glasses” some years back. It is a riff off of the movie by John Carpenter “They Live”. Once you put on The Glasses, reality hits you in the eye.
Romans 16:7 Greet Andronicus and [a]Junias [Or Junia (fem)], my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners, who are outstanding among the apostles, who also [b]were in Christ before me. (New American Standard Bible)
Romans 16:7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among[a] the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was. (New International Version)
Okay, let’s assume that it’s Junia, and not Junias. So what?
All it says is that Andronicus and Jnia are Jews, were in prison with Paul, and are “outstanding among the apostles”. At most, that means that Andronicus and Junia both heard Jesus preach. For all we know, Junia was Andronicus’ wife, and that’s why she accompanied him.
One of the basic principles of Biblical interpretation is that we interpret the passages that are unclear in the light of the passages that are clear. Paul was not just clear, but emphatic, that women are to be silent in the congregation.
Anon,
if the percentage of women able to get married by 40 remains unchanged, then the thirst hasn’t really slackened.
Now I agree the amount and number of men working hard is diminishing, and that’s what scares cucks because the entire system is dependent on males working for the benefits of others. You could eliminate the entire female work force and all that would happen is wages would rise. You eliminate the women, and we go back to grasshuts.
I also suspect the number of men that have gotten divorced and will not remarry (they all used to remarry in the 70s) is the part that is really growing. That is where the problem is really growing.
So what is really happening is that women are getting divorced and are unable to stick the landing afterwards.
The plan is have your fun, get married at 30, have two kids, get divorced and have fun again from 35-42 and remarry. I suspect women are doing everything except that last part, and that’s what gets forgotten, women don’t want to stay married to the beta, they want to have their kids, and go back to the carousal with the beta supporting them
Coupled with men starting to work less (it is really hard to be the ant toiling away when the grasshopper not only gets to play all the time on fabulous carousal trips, but when the time comes the grasshopper gets saved in the winter by thousands of government programs that primarily benefit the grasshopers (70 percent of government spending goes to women, I have no idea how much goes to children but I suspect that’s all but maybe 10%of all spending) that are paid off the backs of the ants.
So again, I don’t think there is going to be a fix until there is a massive economic collapse. I hope you are right, I really do, there is nothing I would like more than to see the marriage rate crater completely, so that maybe the system gets fixed, but again I have heard for more than a decade that video games, vr pron, sexbots and even legalized marijuana spelling the end of beta thirst.
And all I see is thirst, and more girly men.
Sounds like a stalemate of sorts. The smart men do risk analysis and decide marriage is too much of a risk for the potential benefits. Women, the older ones anyway, aren’t willing to change or even compromise, so even if they have opportunity, they don’t marry.
Unfortunately, many men stupidly take on the risk and then find that their wife will only change or compromise when it is to her advantage.
I always take these ‘opening the relationship’ stories with a grain of salt. Like she already knew something but she made the rational decision to ‘open it up’ to reveal the true character of the actors in the play.
He goes from losing his virginity with this gal and staying faithful to her to less than a week going homo with ladyboys and just can’t stop. She probably knew something as evidence by her parenthesis of doubt.
@Oscar
ty, now I need eye bleach.
@AR
#1 Lol. #2 Yep. Nothing worse than a false premise.
@ Oscar
How did 52 year old desperate cougars become the premise for a show on TLC?
She’s 52, she’s morbidly obese, she has no market value whatsoever.
Total crap……..I hope her Nigerian prince fleeces her for every nickel she has (which is probably $0.25)
How did 52 year old desperate cougars become the premise for a show on TLC?
Quite a viewing demographic mystery, to be sure. Seems like that market would be bigger on Lifetime, Oxygen or Oprah.
Dalrock @ 1:01 pm:
“It is strange that she can’t see this, nor can I expect nearly all conservatives.”
Conservatives couldn’t conserve gendered bathrooms. Now we’ll see if they can conserve clothing. Next, we’ll see if they can conserve… um… whatever’s left.
…
Oscar @ 2:49 pm:
“All it says is that Andronicus and Jnia are Jews, were in prison with Paul, and are “outstanding among the apostles”.”
The fact of their being imprisoned with Paul argues strongly they were male.
Your comments about women not wasting any good day of their youth on their husbands made me think about this Amy Horton chick:
@ Casey
It’s train wreck television, kind of like Jerry Springer was.
@ Gunner Q
Maybe. I don’t know how the Romans handled female prisoners.
Years ago the Daily Telegraph in (I think) its Peterborough column retailed stories of the latest insanity from California and perhaps other American states the purpose of which was to allow the English over their breakfasts to feel smugly superior; but I sometimes wonder, were I to find those old columns again, would they feel if anything just a little old fashioned and behind the times? …. and so now in a school district in California pupils (it is a mixed school) pupils can wear anything provided their genitalia and nipples and buttocks are covered (would the same apply to the staff?). My mind boggles and reminds me that the school district is moving into that sub-genre of written eroitca namely Naked in School where somehow a female, sometimes a teacher, inexplicably is having countless wardrobe malfunctions – but has anyone noticed*. No uniform means the girls and perhaps the boys will enter into a fashion contest and will be sure to push the letter of the school law to its unintended but logical consequences.
* I am reminded that when I was a first year law students we – a class of thirty six boys and four girls – (one 8 one 7 and two 4s in case you were wondering) were lectured in Tort by a young female Barrister who would sit on her desk swinging her legs backwards and forwards in the gap under the where she sat. She wore a mini-skirt (micro-pelmet) but us bad-boys in the back row in the class only laughed amongst ourselves as those weren’t legs but thunder thighs and really off-putting whilst trying to gaze up the mini-skirts of the 8 and the 7 who sat in the row in front of us.
Hey Earl,
Check out this Daughter of the King (TM). She’s even a Cosmo Girl!
https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js
Why, if I was 15 years younger and single… I’d still vomit!
@Dalrock
Looking again at the graph it sure looks like “men not suitable for marriage for whatever reason[1]” plus “men being recycled as husbands[0]”. That would account for the slow but constant decline in female never-married plus the near flatline of men never married. It’s more evidence of hypergamy on one hand and beta thirst on the other, than a marriage strike.
Bearing in mind that for the over 50 we are looking back into the past…
[0] For example, Dennis Prager has been married three times. In theory he could account for 3 different women moving from “never married” to “married at least once” all by himself.
[1] This includes several disparate groups but it can be bifurcated into “men whom women just do not want to marry” and “men who just don’t want to marry women”. Yeah, there is surely some overlap between the two sets, but I bet it isn’t all that much.
Has it occurred to Ms. Horton that she’s not worth the effort?
For example, Dennis Prager has been married three times. In theory he could account for 3 different women moving from “never married” to “married at least once” all by himself.
Slightly off topic. I’ve thought about this a few times.
My wife and I (for all her problems, mine, and ours) have each been married once, to each other.
I have a hard time conceiving of being someone’s second or third spouse. I also have a hard time conceiving of being married again, to someone else, to taking a second wife if I am widowed or divorced.
In no way at all would I want to be someone’s second, third or fourth husband. After my experiences in this marriage, I cannot conjecture any circumstances in which I would want to even try to do this again, with another woman. To start over again. To try it again, doing the hard emotional labor of getting to know her and relationship building. To continue the work. To keep investing.
There’s no way I could do this again. There’s no way I would want to do this again. I recently turned 50. At this age, I cannot conceive of starting over again. I just can’t.
Random but the black girl across from me at work was talking about how they had to fire their nanny, she wanted to forgive and forget but her husband said… “And I submit to my husband, he’s the breadwinner. Of course he also has to submit to me.”
Me: “WTF?”
Her: “Yeah it’s in the Bible. Husbands submit to your wives as to the Lord.”
Me: “No, that’s not in the Bible.”
Her: “Yes it is! It was in the packet from the Bible study!”
LOL…suggesting that wimminz has some introspection. It’s just easier to blame men.
Deti
I have a hard time conceiving of being someone’s second or third spouse. I also have a hard time conceiving of being married again, to someone else, to taking a second wife if I am widowed or divorced.
Just for you. Well, and for Opus…
In Thailand it’s a running joke how many normal-looking Western dudes cavort with ladyboys. Are they less expensive? More enthusiastic? Or do guys get so sated with easy poon that they need something more perverse to get excited? When reproduction is off the table, does it really matter if your girlfriend has (or used to have) a dick?
It’s due to porn. Porn has exposed huge numbers of men to MtF trans because men tend to seek variety and exotic material when they view a lot of porn. This has a carryover effect into the real world for some portion of these men. It’s also in the US. If you look at escort sites, you’ll find that the ratio of women to MtF trans listed is generally between 5:1 and 6:1 — which is stunningly *low*, given that women are about 50% of the population, and MtF trans are less than half a percent. That supply is there to meet demand, and the demand isn’t coming from gay guys.
Women’s hypergamy keeps them from settling down in their early 20’s. They have this “dream” that the perfect man is out there, and their superstitious, pro-astrology beliefs makes them thing that he will be “aligned with” them on a fundamental level.
Women, as irrational, faith-based creatures who seek the approval of their friends, cannot be expected to make wise decisions on their own. Much of what works out for them is fluke, or the help of men masquerading as independent womanly action. In marriage, women seek dominance, so that would also explain why men don’t want to plug into that particular Matrix.
Shado.
> It’s due to porn. Porn has exposed huge numbers of men to MtF trans because men tend to seek variety and exotic material when they view a lot of porn.
Seems to me that porn material has shifted in that direction over the past two decades.
Positive feedback loop on degeneracy.
Hungary bans gender studies: https://www.counter-currents.com/2018/08/kulturkampf-in-hungary/#more-85093
Novaseeker,
If you look at escort sites, you’ll find that the ratio of women to MtF trans listed is generally between 5:1 and 6:1 — which is stunningly *low*, given that women are about 50% of the population, and MtF trans are less than half a percent. That supply is there to meet demand, and the demand isn’t coming from gay guys.
I doubt this. Straight men are not on the precipice of bisexuality. Just because some MtF trans list on an escort site does not mean they are hired.
For a normal straight man, if he were to be tricked like this, it would probably be among the worst experiences of his life. If there was any real demand from straight men, then at least one or two commenters here would be willing to state that they are ok with having sex with an MtF trans. Unsurprisingly, virtually no straight man appears to want to go for this.
More likely, it is a lesbian who wants an MtF trans.
earl says:
August 30, 2018 at 2:10 pm
It’s a scam!!!!
But meh feelz!!!!
Funny how women can be somewhat rational when it’s not their feelings being influenced.
What is amazing is women’s solipsistic view that they are the exception, that they are special, that the rules, the statistics and the demographics don’t apply to them.It happens across the board:
-I’m special, I deserve 6 ft tall, 6-pack body , 6-figure salary.
-I don’t have to marry early, there’s plenty of time, the Old Maid /Left on Shelf rule doesn’t apply to me.
-I can have babies late. The statistically increased threat of Down Syndrome and birth defects don’t apply to me
-I can binge drink during pregnancy. Foetal Alcohol Syndrome doesn’t apply to me.
-I can even have babies out of wedlock. The statistics of my children at risk of being sexually abused, academic underachievers, teen runaways, teen pregnants, 80% of the prison population doesn’t apply to me
-and more.
Anon, you seem obsessed with trannies. But I doubt that these freaks will influence straight male behavior, or male to female relations, in any way.
Last night I was watching some awful X Factor/got Talent auditions where the level of delusion amongst the contestants was off the chart. I had to feel sorry for their mauling at the hands of Simon Cowell et al for the contestants are used by the shows and for the same purpose as The Circus used freaks. Tess Holiday seems to me to be in the same category where it is impolite to say what we think but behind her back we snigger. I think the same applies to our present lionising of Transvestism and Homosexuality.
Why, if you are a female would you need to become a great singer? Is it that you know that your looks are not good enough to otherwise attract the attention you naturally seek? – and given the probability of failure is it (as you say) a Hail Mary prayer. Peter Noone (Herman) was always somewhat more popular in America than in his home country: The Henry VIII song was an old music hall song. Deti (many happy returns) cannot imagine a second wife but is that much worse than imagining a second girlfriend? I certainly always felt I was slumming it after I was unceremoniously ditched by Girlfriend Number One (who was seriously hawt and I precocious for my age which then was fifteen – not that that stopped me two-timing her) and frankly at that point should have called it a day. I have met a fair number of trannies but none have ever given me even a seconds thought that they were anything other than blokes – perhaps it is different in Kattoye-land but I have never left nor intend to do so the First World. As Trannies are very thin on the ground I had to conclude that ‘open-marriage’ article was fake news.
The only clear and present truths that I can extract from Dalrock’s charts are that women are marrying later which means less children and that at a certain age men who are not married show no sign of intending to marry – but was that always so?
“Why, if you are a female would you need to become a great singer?”
No idea, but I’m glad some women feel that way. In no particular order, Karen Carpenter, Nina Simone, Frederica von Stade, Shirley Collins.
And for women in the past it could be a way out of poverty. Standing in front of an adoring audience has got to be better than working in a shop, I’d have thought, Of course being a world-class female singer won’t necessarily attract the same quality of partner that it might for a man, but then we’re so shallow ;=)
Her: “Yeah it’s in the Bible. Husbands submit to your wives as to the Lord.”
Me: “No, that’s not in the Bible.”
Her: “Yes it is! It was in the packet from the Bible study!”
That must be in the New Feminist Edition Bible.
The mutual submission part they love to twist isn’t that the man also submits to his wife…it’s that the man loves his wife and sacrfices for her santification because they are one flesh. The wife still submits to the husband in everything.
@ earl
Except that love and sacrifice are not submission. Jesus loves and sacrificed himself for the Church, but He never submits to the Church.
There’s no such thing as “mutual submission”. It’s a false teaching invented by modern Christians who are offended by the true teaching that wives are to submit to their husbands in all things as unto the Lord.
Tess Holliday, the “Cosmo Girl”, is described in a comment as a “plus girl”. I would say she is a “+++ girl”. A lot of tats, too, but there is plenty of canvas still available.
That Amy Horton chick is a train-wreck. Terrence Popp did a pair of very funny videos about her.
After my marriage, I absolutely agree, and I expect a large percentage of men who believe marriage is intended to be a lifetime relationship would agree.
Hugh Mann: And for women in the past it could be a way out of poverty. Standing in front of an adoring audience has got to be better than working in a shop,
That’s why Clara sought to become an actress in George Gissing’s 1889 novel, The Nether World.
Opus, ever read Gissing? His gloomy, naturalistic novels are studied by historians for their accurate portrayal of life in late Victorian England. Gissing was a brilliant psychologist and observer of human relations, especially between the sexes. No sentimentality or pedestalization of women in his novels.
Which is exactly what I understood to be the case when I watched The Crying Game (which Anon also mentioned above). If I recall correctly, he threw up and ran until he was exhausted.
I think we will be seeing more women like this in the years ahead: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2018/08/31/why-i-decided-to-ignore-the-judgy-snobs-like-myself-and-have-my-babies-on-my-own/?utm_term=.77e0c31ef933 .
It’s still the case today that most women who do not find someone worth marrying do not have kids, but that is slowly changing, and as we can see the establishment media is cheering on the trend, as we would expect.
Understanding the meaning of words is an underappreciated ability. I think a three-minute sermon could be made from Oscar’s statement and improve thousands of marriages. Well, it would if people understood it and chose to live accordingly.
I’ll admit I’m one of those 47 year old never married men. I honestly don’t know why I never did. I spent almost ten years of grad school, teaching from college to college, finally settling down to teach at one, paying off debt, taking care of sick parents. By the time both of my folks died, I was in my mid-forties. Now, marriage seems silly. I don’t see any 18 virgins on the horizon. I don’t know how many men fit my story, but I am throwing out one anecdotal case to give context to the data.
Any other never married men here who want to explain themselves?
I’m 49, straight, white, male, and I’ve never married. For me it was a combination of both “not being good enough” and it clearly being a bad deal. I was brought up with career notions based on the idea I would have to support a family but was one of the guys who didn’t date in high school. Afterwards pursuing and finishing a two year degree I remained dateless as far as finding a wife goes. It seemed that I was pursuing my studies for something that wasn’t in the cards. I sort of checked out for most of my twenties.
Got tired of being broke and got a real job. Got fat from sitting at a desk and going out to lunch. Got a second job and trimmed down and that didn’t even move the needle till I pulled a decade and a half younger virgin (24) at about forty. We co-habitated for a year and she was then off at the first something better that came along.
I suppose I’m MGTOW but there just aren’t good options really. Even with a local college putting an auxiliary campus close to my work I can go most of the week without seeing an attractive woman.
I think we will be seeing more women like this in the years ahead:
Yeah. And these are the men they choose, just as Red Pill theory would postulate:
Then I found him. He was from California, 6-foot-3, 185, fair-skinned, green eyes. He didn’t play tennis, but he loved surfing and swimming. His favorite subject was English. Under staff comments, it said, “The entire staff looks forward to seeing him.” They said he made them laugh, was humble, kind and easy to be around.
Uh huh. Sure. his sense of humor, humility, kindness and affability are why everyone liked seeing him. Yep. Yep yep yep.
When it comes time to get the seed, it has to come from tall beautiful athletic surfers. Hence why the manosphere advises “lift, lose weight, eat clean, get fit, get more attractive”.
‘Jesus loves and sacrificed himself for the Church, but He never submits to the Church.’
You’re right. Perhaps I didn’t word it well…you are submitting to the example Christ laid out in marriage for men. Would you agree as men we should submit to God’s will (and not hers).
The heartbreaking line in the article comes from her son “He often asks my male friends to be his dad.” He craves and needs a father but this selfish shallow woman got her designer kids and that’s all she cares about. When the sons are messed up because they didn’t have a father, that will be blamed on “toxic masculinity.”
@deti
She probably liked the whole package. The whole looks vs personality debate and which is the hook is often nonsensical to me. Men should strive in their mission to improve both.
‘Any other never married men here who want to explain themselves?’
Two reasons…
1) I saw a lot of how women were acting and didn’t want that chaos in my life.
2) The ones I decided were worth exploring the possibility of marriage because they showed some maturity…for whatever reason never had any motivation or desire to get married to me so they broke it off. They can’t fool you over a long enough timeline.
I agree with deti she needs some motivation or desire…otherwise that mask will come off in marriage.
I may eventually get married…or I might not. Either way I realized I need to focus on my relationship with God and my mission…and should a helpmate decide she wants to come along, so be it.
@ earl
Yes, and that is not “mutual submission”. Submission goes in one direction only. Christ submits to the Father, not the other way around. The husband submits to Christ, not the other way around. The wife submits to the husband, not the other way around.
Anything else is a perversion of Biblical submission.
Love, service, and sacrifice, however, can be mutual.
I don’t mean the husband and wife mutually submitting to one another, that’s the feminist definition which if you notice never mentions God’s role in marriage…I mean they mutually submit to Christ. Then they follow the example outlined in marriage that the husband submits to the example of Christ and the wife submits to the example of the church by submitting to her husband as the Lord (not using the Lord to get around submitting to her husband).
@ earl
I see the problem. You’re confused about the definition of the word “mutual”.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mutual
Definition of mutual
1 a : directed by each toward the other or the others
There’s no such thing as submission “directed by each toward the other or the others”.
Earl and Oscar,
I believe that Oscar is correct about the definition of mutual. In other words, rather than saying the husband and wife mutually submit to Christ, it would be better to say they both submit to Christ. I think that is what Earl intended.
However, it is possible that you have a disagreement about the wife’s submission to Christ. Some, I believe, argue that a wife only submits to her husband and never directly to Christ, but indirectly to Christ through submission to her husband.
Correct.
The particular passage which says ‘be subject to one another out of fear of Christ’…is supposed to be about general relationships with other Christians (at least that’s how I read it). Next is marital relationship which Paul lays out the particular standard about what a husband and wife should do, namely Christ and the church.
The confusing part is some people try to hamster the general into the way it is in the marital.
@ OKRickety
Not on my part. Direct submission to a person a couple levels above you in the chain of command is entirely legitimate.
@ earl
That’s Ephesians 5:21. The Apostle Paul instructs us (members of the Body of Christ) to “submit to one another out of reverence for Christ”, then he gives us a list of which members are supposed to submit to which other members.
1. Wives submit to husbands.
2. Children submit to parents.
3. Servants submit to masters.
The Apostle, of course, also tempers each command to submit with a corresponding command to the one in authority.
1. Husbands love your wives as Christ loves the Church.
2. Fathers do not exasperate your children.
3. Masters treat your slaves with good will.
Note that modern Christians only demand that husbands submit to wives. They never demand that parents submit to children, or employers submit to employees.
@Dalrock, it may be the strike is presented by GenX men refusing to re-marry (as they have NOW got the message – we were all misled) and by GenY by not getting onboard in the first place as they got the message straight up.
It might be a useful exercise for the guys here to state what they thought about marriage when they went into it, and what age cohort they belong too.
We may find that if young men now think the same as the divorced generation ahead of them they will have similar responses to the concept of marriage with females of their generation.
One thing I saw clearly was that when our divorce storm started (its when each divorce leads to another etc – all female initiated of course) – the women were amazed at how much they were going to get away with financially – you couldn’t wipe the smiles off their faces – (it was disgusting to see btw). They knew already they could get away with it culturally – ie they get the kids\ friends\ families\ church while doing whatever – but they had no idea how financially beneficial it was now.
So we were all surprised by that. The rules changed without our approval nor recognition.
Its whether the younger guys 18-early 30’s see this as well, if so, then that is where its going to happen. A strike can only occur if you know the terms you are currently under are so bad you’d rather do without than participate.
If the younger guys (GenY\Z)know they will be treated as badly as their fathers have been, that will be their strike. The badly treated fathers (GenX\boomers) strike will be to not re-marry.
Its amazing the schizophrenia involved by the feminists, they both want men to be utterly stoic in divorce while all manner of false allegations are leveled at them, their children denied to see them, friends turned away from them, pensions stolen, houses seized, and a heavy yoke put upon all else he earns through the sweat of his brow for decades or life to be handed over to his enemies. He is now a slave.
Yet at the same time, be in touch with their feelings, cry on camera, wear a pussy hat and walk a mile in her shoes.
God’s end of our civilisation can’t come soon enough !
As a 50 year old Gen X man, here’s why I didn’t get married, in no particular order.
1. I didn’t have the prerequisites that the women wanted.
From college onward there were women who refused to date a guy because he didn’t have a car. Cars are cheap and if I wanted one I could have had one. I got my drivers license as soon as I could but just didn’t care about cars the way other guys did.
When I got to my 30s, “What’s your degree in?”, was a mating call of the women of my generation. As soon as I said that I didn’t have one, they quit talking to me. The fact that I have two post secondary diplomas from two different schools, plus university courses which gives me more than 4 years of post secondary didn’t matter.
After about 35 the prerequisites that the women wanted became good job, house (or at the very least a condo) and a car plus whatever desire du jour Oprah or Sex and the City had convinced them that they needed.
2. Cyclical recessions.
From the time I got out of high school recessions would hit about every seven years. It would then take me years to rebuild from those events which didn’t make me marriage material when I was surviving them or recovering from them.
3. Breakups hurt A LOT.
People talk about he pain of divorce as a driver of the marriage strike but I have yet to hear anyone talk about the pain of having to go through breakups. Women in their 20s and 30s are for the most part, serial daters. Once I’d had the experience of going through 3 or 4 painful breakups as the women monkey branched away as their eggs were drying up I really began to question if the juice was actually worth the squeeze. The desire to avoid the pain of these breakups caused me to seriously vette the women that I would consider being involved with for long term relationships. The result? I realized that while there were a lot of women that were fine for one night stands or even short term relationships there were very few that were worth long term relationships.
4. Birth control plus women’s sexual empowerment.
One of the motivating factors for marriage for young men is access to sex. However, once I started to have some success with women starting in my mid-twenties marriage was the furthest thing from my mind. While the whole society appears to support women’s sexual empowerment a lot of people seem to forget that those women have to be having sex with someone in order to ‘feel empowered’. I’ve had sex with a lot of women in my life, so much so that by the time I hit about 40 I felt absolutely no pressure to chase sex. Since the women around me were still being ‘strong and independent’ I didn’t see the sense in busting my ass off to prove provider status as they kept saying that they didn’t care about it.
I turned 50 this summer and honestly, I feel pretty lucky. I made it this far without being divorce raped and I got to have the sex I wanted in my younger days without producing illegitimate children. For the most part I feel pretty thankful to be where I am, I get to enjoy the fruits of my labor for the rest of my life. As for women well, they’ve been saying that they don’t need a man for so long I’ve adapted and simply take them at their word.
Marriage Over Sex.
https://www.brookings.edu/research/an-analysis-of-out-of-wedlock-births-in-the-united-states/
Reproduction
Pingback: 2017 Never Married Data | Dalrock
Men are smart not to marry.It is a financial prison that rewards women and men are thrown off a cliff.In today’s world what man would rush to marriage knowing in a few years your life is over?
Pingback: 2018 Median Age of Marriage | Dalrock
I tore up my marriage card after my divorce, got a vasectomy and banged my way through Bill Clinton’s Washington, circa 1992-onward. Lots of girls wanted to get married, I always figured a way out of it. Looking in on some of them, they are OLD. Most of them still single, many ill or frail (I’m 61 now). Because this is what happens to women without a man or children. Me? Off to Fla. to play golf, in the spring, I’ll break out the motorcycle. Marriage in this day and age? I know better.