Sheila Gregoire and her fellow Christian Feminists are putting complementarians on notice. Recently she retweeted a call for male allies to fight the patriarchy:
The specific context is a thread Sheila started in response to a number of people writing mean comments about her daughter’s histrionic reaction to a post by Lori Alexander:
Sheila was especially offended that some of the commenters quoted 1-Tim 2:11-12:
This is where it gets interesting. Sheila blames complementarians for the existence of mean comments on the internet. Specifically, she blames Dr. John Piper’s Desiring God website.
Sheila has to know that Piper was one of a handful of men who spearheaded the movement to invent a new meaning for 1-Tim 2:14, and to thereby legitimize women like Sheila and her daughter taking on preaching roles contrary to 1-Tim 2:11-12. As Piper and Grudem wrote in their 1991 book Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood: A Response to Evangelical Feminism, they wanted to create a new reading of 1 Tim 2:14 that assumed that when the Apostle Paul wrote “and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor” he did not mean that women were more easily deceived than men (emphasis mine):
28. Do you think women are more gullible than men?
First Timothy 2:14 says, “Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.” Paul gives this as one of the reasons why he does not permit women “to teach or have authority over a man.” Historically this has usually been taken to mean that women are more gullible or deceivable than men and therefore less fit for the doctrinal oversight of the church. This may be true (see question 29). However, we are attracted to another understanding of Paul’s argument.
Later in the same book Dr. Douglass Moo explained why it is so important for complementarians to adopt this new feminist reading of 1-Tim 2:14. Without this new interpretation, complementarians can’t justify rewriting 1-Tim 2:11-12 (emphasis mine):
If the issue, then, is deception, it may be that Paul wants to imply that all women are, like Eve, more susceptible to being deceived than are men, and that this is why they should not be teaching men!
[But this] would have a serious and strange implication. After all, does Paul care only that the women not teach men false doctrines? Does he not care that they not teach them to other women?
Sheila is repaying Dr. Piper’s favor by calling him a sexist. This has immense power, because fear of being called a sexist is what drove Piper, Grudem, and the other men to make up a new meaning of 1 Tim 2:14 in the first place!
Sheila knows that after complementarian feminists took out Dr. Paige Patterson earlier this year, she and women like her are the new locus of power in the complementarian world:
This brings us to the core of Sheila’s message. She and other women like her are now in charge, and the male leaders of the church had better recognize this and start obeying (mama ain’t happy):
This of course fits with the overall SJW revolution. But what makes it noteworthy is Sheila and her SJW allies are now the force to be reckoned with within conservative/evangelical Christianity.
As commenter Emperor Constantine pointed out, we know where this will eventually lead complementarians. It is merely a matter of how quickly they get there:
Related:
Perhaps someone was hissing in his ear…Did Paul really say that?
Well, there’s the gratitude of a woman for you. Grudrem, Moo, Piper all bend over backwards to give feminists what they wanted back in the day, and now the results are increasingly obvious. “Not enough! Not enough!” screech the feminist harpies led by the like of Gregoire.
Reading comprehension still is not a thing that she can handle, because “men prefer” and “God demands” are very different, except inside the head of an overly emotional girly
Laughing at #EmptyThePews, because that’s what men have been doing for years. The process is accelerating in the under 30 cohort.
Ditto #ExVangelical, since the visible leadership of “Evangelicalism” is racing to cave in to feminist demands.
Great comment by Emperor Constantine, but I feel a need to defend Lutherans. While the ELCA is ordaining women, gays, transsexuals, and sign language using gorillas, Confessional Lutheran branches like the LCMS, WELS, and the AALC are very conservative. The LCMS has a very traditional stance on 1Timothy 2:12 and on homosexuality. Don’t lump all Lutherans in with the pagan LINOs (Lutheran in name only) of the ELCA.
I googled #EmptyThePews and found this gem:
And those “great progressive churches out there!” have been empty mausoleums for decades, only able to keep the doors open thanks to endowments and trust funds. Sure, prog clerics tickle people’s ears with their false gospel that endorses all sorts of sins, but eventually people slowly drop away, often sadly into unbelief. From what I’ve heard here in my town, after the local Episcopalian parish hired their first priestess and began flying the rainbow flag there was a mass exodus to the local Greek Orthodox church, The exodus left All Saints a ghost town and the Orthodox parish had to build a bigger church to make room for the new arrivals.
That is a weirdly effeminate way to say “we think it means something different”.
If Piper is a sexist patriarch according to Sheila, then anyone more conservative than him would be Satan in the flesh. It’s a familiar arguing technique but moderates still never learn.
Women bringing disobedience to weak mean who join in their folly…. Hmm, where have I heard that before?
Dalrock
This of course fits with the overall SJW revolution. But what makes it noteworthy is Sheila and her SJW allies are now the force to be reckoned with within conservative/evangelical Christianity.
Peak Feminism has not yet been reached. There’s still more to come.
These same women will then lament “how come men don’t come to church” and task forces within churches setup with workbooks, classes…….and it will be “determined” (pre-determined 😉 ) that we “just have not gone far enough” in appeasing women, and if men knew the “amazing women” who do come to church (tattoos and a carousel o’ kids in tow) they would just come….and if they don’t? Out will come the passive-aggressive attitude of “well, we tried and men just are not as holy as women”
Sheila has to know that Piper was one of a handful of men who spearheaded the movement to invent a new meaning for 1-Tim 2:14, and to thereby legitimize women like Sheila and her daughter taking on preaching roles contrary to 1-Tim 2:11-12.
No, she doesn’t have to know. She likely doesn’t. The news that get passed in certain barn yards are the things that ruffle the feathers of that circle’s hens. So probably the most she’s heard about John Piper’s teaching on men and women is the stuff that makes her and the hens in her ideological camp angry.
Piper has said an awful lot to rile up your average Christo-feminist, and sadly it doesn’t take much to rile them up.
Tweet at top of OP
Here we have women’s known 4:1 ingroup preference on display, as someone named Heather Hilscher points to Gregoire’s daughter’s tantrum. Do not underestimate the power of tears; women use them as both a prybar and a club on men, and a signal to rally other women.
“You men made her cry! Bad men! Bad!”.
Note also that factually disagreeing with a hysterical girl is “patriarchal misogyny”. It should be obvious by now that giving a millimeter to feminists – not just radfems, but conservative feminists too – simply guarantees that they will take a kilometer or at least attempt to.
As long as men are willing to bend and even break clear rules to make a girl stop crying, this insanity will continue. Until men can say “No!” to hysterical girls of any age and make it stick, this will continue. Reason is wasted on feminists.
Dalrock,
You say it does “not mean that women were more easily deceived than men“, so what is the “new feminist reading of 1-Tim 2:14“?
I’m often attracted to another understanding of “Thou shall not…” Guess I’m good to go.
“Would they know that, according to Ephesians 5:21, we are all supposed to submit to each other—and that includes 50 YO men submitting to 21 YO YouTubers calling others to Christ?”
So, the hidden message of Christianity has been for all members of the faithful to take orders from immature, pre-pubescent girls. Mohammed just married a 6 year old; Christians are supposed to submit to them.
When will feminists learn that “male feminists” are predators?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/10/10/feminists-shouldnt-trust-the-men-who-call-themselves-allies/
@OKRickety: Dalrock covered this in a previous post:
https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2017/06/21/straining-out-gnats/
When feminists start accepting the fact their ethos is evil and makes toxic men (and women).
Just use that as a defense when you go to court. It’ll work unless you are a white man.
Sheila Gregoire reminded me of another nice Christian mom, Jenny Erikson, who is still apparently not married to her babydaddy. She doesn’t spend a lot of time insisting on her Christian credentials, instead reporting on celebrity lifestyles.
Oscar:
When will feminists learn that “male feminists” are predators?
They have looked with suspicion on *all* males from the beginning as likely, if not manifest, enemies. Do you not see that it makes no difference to them whether any particular man has proven himself to be a predator?
Thing is there really seems to be a higher correlation of predators when they are male feminists.
You’d think they’d understand cause and eff….never mind.
Oscar @ 1:08 pm:
“… we are attracted to another understanding of Paul’s argument.”
“That is a weirdly effeminate way to say “we think it means something different”.”
Tradcons know they’re lying. That’s why they avoid unqualified declarative statements like cyanide.
Gunner Q:
I get this a lot with my students. ” I feel like what this verse is saying to me is…” usually followed by something the text wasn’t saying at all. One of the hardest lessons to teach is that truth informs feeling, not vice versa. I could tell you the gender I find this most predominate in, but I probably don’t need to. Also, I think the lack of understanding context as well as verse by verse formats of scripture have compounded this problem.
WTF is “exvangical?”
It’s ironic that she wrote “The Good Girls Guide To Great Sex”.
Sound like discrimination against the tatted non-virgins to me. Where’s their book?
Cloudbuster, check out https://exvangelicalpodcast.com
@ Cloudbuster:
https://exvangelical.wordpress.com/
“The husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the Church.”
Now – go make me a sammich!
Oops – did I type that out loud? I’ve got no internal monologue…
In July 2010, Piper’s reply to the question “Is it wrong for men to listen to female speakers?” included this:
So, if the woman says she’s happy with the answer, it’s okay? That boy done been whipped!
Having seen a number of friends leave Christianity for atheism one of the motivating factors is they choose leftism over God and the rationalizations for there being no God come second. What they are offended by, like man throughout history, is that God (daddy) has rules and they don’t want the rules. It doesn’t matter if the rules apply to them or others, God is a mean baddie for judging some behavior unacceptable.
This whole thing started because a woman said something obvious, and other women attacked her. Now one side wants to co-opt the men (we need more men to….) onto the insane anti-reality side.
Shelia makes a category error which sadly isn’t surprising. When she says churches teach feminism is the biggest evil then points out sins. But feminism is evil in high places and is an idea to destroy civilization and families. Assault which is still rare is a specific instance of sin, as is human trafficking (made more possible by poverty and degradation of the family). Is feminism worse than human trafficking? Yes, but we can confront both evils at the same time. One is an idea that needs to be fought the other is a criminal activity. (And exactly how would normal people fight human trafficking? Its like saying you are against murder, no one is for it and everyone agrees it bad. What is there to be done more?)
Such a fine, upstanding, Christian woman. Not!
Or she might break up with her child’s father or get knocked up again or do a bike ride through central Asia…the world is her canvas to splatter paint upon.
Open question to churchgoing men: have you ever in your life been in a church that taught “feminism is the biggest evil”? Ever heard a preacher on the radio or via the internet say that?
It has to be true. Sheila Gregoire and other conservative feminists would never shade the truth, or exaggerate, or lie. Nope Never. So where are these churches? Names? Addresses? URL’s?
Just asking.
Saying an ethos is the biggest evil is subjective…however I have yet to hear one proclaim it as evil.
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Exvangelical
From About Exvangelical:
“Exvangelical is my attempt to work through the often clashing cultures of my brand of Christianity with the Evangelical community.”
Her brand of… Yes, it’s a woman.
These Women are just Skanks. Best ignored.
Seems like she’s just trying to push buttons rather than actually pastor anything.
I’d be curious what ‘controversial’ statements she’s talking about.
I imagine Sheila defines “controversial” as anything that she believes is correct, but others, especially men, have the temerity to disagree with.
Well……we even let girls in church sing “that Frozen theme song” about “no rules for me” or whatever…….what do we expect?
Also……there was a guy I knew back in the late 1990’s. He had a blog before anybody….it was the “Martian Bachelor Science Page”, and I met him for dinner in San Jose….this was 1998? 1999? His blog was banned at IBM, GE, Dell, Ford, Apple……and a ton of other companies at the time….blocked access at work. He lived in San Jose, and I worked there…….so we met up for dinner and drinks. Oh if you must know, it was “Original Joes” in dt San Jose…..we both got stupid drunk afterward at the Fairmont lobby bar….and I ended getting a room bc I was too tanked to take a train back to San Francisco……lol
He was about ten years older than me at the time…he’s gotta be almost sixty now……anyway, he made a comment over dinner
“I just want to know why in all important cultural / social factors and decisions that are being made now seem to be made by ten year old girls or we as a society are taking their opinions really seriously.”
He meant it as a joke, but twenty years on….those girls are now pushing 30.
His blog was a man-o-sphere blog that was a little deeper than the party jokes you got from “Maxim” and “FHM” at the time…
Unless the 50 yr old man and the 21 yr old girl are husband and wife…Shelia’s out of context argument falls flat on its face.
This is probably the type of argument that makes her think men tell her to ‘shut up’.
I think the key quote from all of Sheila’s rants is this one:
People are not treating the video from her daughter like the precious jewel freely offered by its maker that Sheila thinks it is. So now “Mama ain’t happy“.
Here’s me not giving a crap what Sheila Gregoire says about [insert church gender issue here]
Oh wait, I already used that one.
If only she felt that way about her shoddy teaching.
Boxer had a good post on his blog about this stuff. I can’t get to it here at work, but, I responded there to Sheila misquoting and libeling Paige Patterson over a single out of context comment.
It doesn’t pay to go along with the bad guys. They’ll fight their male allies harder than their enemies.
Sheila Gregoire, you are a Crazy Whore! (sexual overtones intended) However, Sharkly is not interested in your wares, for numerous reasons. Oh, and stay silent for God’s sake. Zip it Crazy Whore. Doesn’t Keith Gregoire have something else for you to be doing? No? He’s not interested in you either? Hush crazy little girl. I understand the hurt and rejection you must feel, but going on the internet attention seeking will not fill the hole in your heart left by your husbands lack of interest. How’s that “Jesus is your boyfriend” thing working out sexually? LOL Why don’t you preach contentment and humility to women, instead of discontent and rebellion? You’re kicking against the goads. Crazy Whore!
@ Scott
Dude, what’s with the dress? It might be time to re-start the testosterone booster.
ys — “If Piper is a sexist patriarch according to Sheila, then anyone more conservative than him would be Satan in the flesh. It’s a familiar arguing technique but moderates still never learn.”
That’s the familiar technique employed, absolutely. Standard snakie.
Feminists like Gregoire know that the leaders of Official Christianity are pliable weaklings with deeply invested (ptooey) careers. By accusing them of not stopping Those Abusive Men from attacking poor, buffeted She-She and dotter, and permitting whatever else she demands, Piper and others must choose. He’s not gonna choose against The Horde because he well knows the consequences to career and personal life. Not to his soul tho.
Notice how She-She primed the weapon previously, wailing at length about the perpetrations against her dotter by Those Abusive Men. She’s a pro at this and passes through all her life even in this way, willful and predatory and rebellious. Whilst pretending piety and defenselessness.
Jenny Erikson isn’t just a train wreck, she’s a public train wreck. What kind of moron looks at that train wreck and thinks, “that’s who I want to mother my children!”?????????????
Sheila Gregoire said: “They are attending churches that teach feminism is the biggest evil in the world today, rather than the sexual assault crisis in the church, the porn epidemic ruining marriages, or human trafficking.”
WTF??? Demented blatherings of an unhinged sycophant; a complete distortion of reality.
I’ve yet to find a church which takes a stand against feminism. There is a “sexual assault crisis” in churches? What? What on God’s green earth is she referring to? Effeminate men who creep out young women because they fall short of being Chads? If so, repent of your non-Chad-ness!!! The “porn epidemic” ruining marriage? Do the women who act frigid share in the culpability? “Human trafficking”? What? Is that the new code word for a traditional marriage were the wife submits to her husband? Are traditional women slaves???
This woman be loco.
Saw this on Heartiste. I think a lot of women secretly crave it.
Very enjoyable responses from Rollo in that thread
What are the odds she sees her relationship with Christ as her boyfriend who lets her do anything?
Earl…
https://babylonbee.com/news/new-christian-dating-app-just-matches-every-girl-with-jesus/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=matt_walsh
That video.
Count the number of times she references God.
Count the number of Scripture references she makes.
Count the times she calls on people to talk with God.
Add together.
What do you get?
Sheila: she practices witchcraft –rebellion against the Word of God, and she has many itchy ears, as desirous witches themselves. She boldly denies Jesus Christ, the clear Word of God.
Many will say Lord, Lord, and He will say He never knew them. Pending her about-face repentance, it appears she is one of those many …rotting flesh …death walking. Like Eve, daughters upon granddaughters, thinking they have the knowledge of God. It is far too kind to call her a joke, but she is laughable.
Sheila says: They are going to churches where pastors have been taught in seminaries by the likes of Paige Patterson, who said that he would “beat down” a rape victim to see if he could get her to recant her story.
Sheila Is just flat lying about Dr. Patterson. Crazy Whore!
Dr. Patterson had at one time in an e-mail used the phrase “break her down” referring to getting to the bottom of a story involving a girl giving conflicting stories about her inappropriate behavior. The girl had made no mention of any rape at that point.
The student in question had given several different accounts of her story to authorities, school administration, and her family. Dr. Patterson was seeking to understand what actually occurred among the many contradictory statements. … The incident in question concerns a time period in which Dr. Patterson was in the process of moving to Fort Worth, Texas, from Wake Forest, North Carolina, approximately 15 years ago. … At Dr. Patterson’s request and after being made aware of the name of the Southeastern student making the accusation against Dr. Patterson, Dr. Patterson’s staff checked the terminated president’s personal archives for any related correspondence. Letters found from the accuser to Dr. Patterson appear to validate that Dr. Allan Moseley, the SEBTS Dean of Students, and not Dr. Patterson, handled the matter. The accuser also apologizes for what she called her sin and makes no mention of or reference to rape. … A personal ‘thank you’ letter to Dr. Patterson provided to Southwestern Seminary’s legal counsel plainly states that a student at SEBTS first interacted with a faculty member and then with Dr. Moseley. She thanked Dr. Patterson for being able to stay in school and for the way in which the school handled the matter. … No reasonable reading of the letter suggests that the student had reported a rape to Dr. Patterson and certainly not that he ignored it, as is alleged.
So what actually happened was that the female student invited a male student into her room for some hanky-panky and after being found out, tried to blame the boy. However, she has still to this day, over 15 years later, never reported a rape to law enforcement. Just to #MeToo, and the internet, for personal attention purposes. Apparently she has never wanted to have her story critically challenged in court, or to have the other side heard. Her story likely could not stand up to scrutiny. But foolish whores like Sheila would have you believe every slut without any scrutiny. And Sheila’s ilk successfully got Dr. Patterson fired for what still appears to be much ado about nothing.
https://sbcissues.wordpress.com/2018/06/04/the-release-of-facts-in-response-to-further-accusations-against-terminated-swbts-president-paige-patterson/
Earl says .Or she might break up with her child’s father or get knocked up again or do a bike ride through central Asia…the world is her canvas to splatter paint upon.
Financed in large part by “child support” payments from her evil ex husband.
This thread broke my heart. We need more women to be allies to push back against this virulent matriarchal misandry coming from female “Christians.
Or I could shorten my post to:
“Sheila says these things because one time she put a gerbil in her butt and it never came out.”
She’s definitely been Bernakified Goldman Sacks rhymes with butthex
Personal peeve: the word “awesome” is worn out, doubly so in the church context.
Off Topic: When will people understand that SJWs can’t be appeased?
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/376544.php
That last video… ‘We don’t have to follow the rules anymore! Wheeeee!’ They conveniently forget that the (fading) luxury of the present was born from those ‘rules’ ‘roles’ and ‘responsibilities’ that they claim to be free of.
Im reminded of G.K. Chesterton’s statement, that modernists look to the future and away from the past because they know they fall well short of the men and women who came before them. Looking at western civilization today, it’s almost as if modernists and post modernists can no longer look away, even if it drives them mad, even if it turns them to stone. You have either raving fools or soulless nihilists, transformed by the moment they looked for but a moment upon the truth.
Another good response from the Emperor and then her response. Is there any more doubt what the fruits of the feminist church are about?
This strategic move is brilliant on Shiela’s part, as she knows the tide is in her favor and she will likely get what she’s aiming for. For me, unless the pastor is a priest in the Catholic or Orthodox church, he is just a bible-thumping huckster trying to make a living by running his mouth. He doesn’t really believe what he says and this is proven by the way they always hem and haw and adjust the Bible’s interpretation in order to gather the most followers (tithers that is). Priests can’t marry so they’re fully committed, they got real skin in the game (forget the transgressors for the sake of argument). They’re on call 24/7, visit the dying, and so forth. It isn’t just a day job and a source of income.
Anyway, along with the fact these loudmouth phony preachers are beholden to constituents, not God, and their fear of losing access to the money and poon, they cower, bob and weave, and ultimately acquiesce to the whamens, and if Shiela gets her way, will join forces against their own brothers.
This is consistent with what I’ve been saying, where the overabundance of fertile males leads to this sort of competition. men stabbing each other in the back, cops, judges and “pastors” white knighting and throwing their brothers (and God) under the bus to stay on top of the dog pile.
Besides I’d never ally with the feminists…they treat their male supporters worse than the ‘patriarchal oppressors’.
Feminists really should branch out a little on their fallacies. This poor woman must live on a hay field.
Just start flat out demanding they call themselves feminists who use Christianity when convienant.
Well, I opened up the Sheila Gregoire twit thread. It’s a meltdown of extraordinary magnitude.
Rollo’s contribution is short and to the point along the lines of “you will kill your churches with this, men will walk out and not come back”; Sheila huffs back at him “So you approve of what was said to my daughter?” (paraphrase). Complete, utter non-sequitur. From the interaction some years ago this is typical of her, and of most female bloggers. Because every disagreement maps to “personal attack” somehow, it is not possible to reason with Gregoire or other feminists. They just can’t do reason when there’s anything personal involved, and since everything is personal with feminists…
@Earl
Another interesting find. Good job.
The word Emperor Constantine is searching for is “Churchian”.
I guess we see where her daughter gets the not addressing the point presented method of debate…the Emperor however brings the topic back to the original reason why her daughter decided to emote on youtube.
I’d be curious to know how many men called Lori Alexander any ‘UnChristian’ names for her article…versus say the opposite sex.
On Topic: The ball’s back in Pastor Doug’s court.
https://bnonn.com/when-italics-wont-cut-it/
[emphasis mine]
I like this dude’s style.
[D: Thanks for the heads up!]
Bill Burr has a pretty good routine that cover this. NSFW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNSt3wJXZk0
Jenny Erikson isn’t just a train wreck, she’s a public train wreck. What kind of moron looks at that train wreck and thinks, “that’s who I want to mother my children!”?????????????
As I said in another recent thread, Jenny did ex-hubby Leif ten thousand favors by divorcing him, thus letting him go on to marry what appears to be a very lovely (and no doubt infinitely more pleasant) lady.
Anyone wanna bet that in five years or less she’ll be stalking Leif trying to get back together with him?
This woman be loco.
Loca, feminine gender.
Yes, and that’s being kind.
This was actually a pretty good and interesting movie. The “spanker” is James Spader and the “spankee” is Maggie Gyllenhaal who is kind of kooky but still pretty good looking. In interesting look into what women want and are willing to do for sexual pleasure, even though her character has mental issues.
One wonders whether Erickson’s baby daddy has been excommunicated from the LDS church yet, for fornication.
Sheila Gregoire: “Many commenters simply used Bible verses to say, “shut up, you’re a woman.”(this is a very common tactic; I get this all the time on my blog, too. Whenever I say something controversial men don’t want to argue with, they simply quote a verse saying shut up):”
The fact that she is clearly lying aside, Sheila at this point might as well just tear her Bible up and start using it as arsewipe. The Word of God to her is clearly something to be mocked and despised as “mean,” degrading,” and “patriarchal.”
It’s well past time for Sheila to drop the obviously laughable pretense of Christianity and just form her own feminist cult.
Sheila Gregoire cult follower Heather Hilscher on Twitter in response to Emperor Constantine:
“All nopes to this.”
Wow. What a juvenile moronette. If that’s the extent of her communication, debating, and “reasoning” abilities (to say nothing of her Bible knowledge), then this battle may be easier won than we thought possible.
As commenter Emperor Constantine pointed out, we know where this will eventually lead complementarians. It is merely a matter of how quickly they get there.
Slightly OT, but I just found a recent podcast by Russell Moore that had him asking pretty much the same question. If the mealymouthing that he offers is any indication, John Piper and company will be lucky if their “complementarianism” even merits anything more than a snicker a year from now. That’s not because it’s somehow harmful to women; It’s because at the end of the day it’s a movement that has no balls.
Here is Moore at about 12 minutes into the podcast, as he tries to define what complementarianism is . . . .
. . . Don’t get your hopes up if you’d like anything more in-depth than that. Moore closes by deliberately refusing to offer his audience any further specifics, excepting for one thing that we must always be sure “complementarianism” is not:
If you want a great visual aid for why the “complementarian” project was dead before it began, look no further than this. Its leaders will never honor husbands and fathers for carrying out the “unique responsibilities” they demand, because that might risk unfairly overlooking women for praise. And they will never tell a wife no or call her out on her sins, because that might risk being abusive towards women. At this point, “complementarianism” is nothing more than a cheap ruse run by the church to keep men from noticing that that it has nothing to offer them.
Link to Moore’s podcast is here: https://www.russellmoore.com/2018/08/03/will-complementarianism-survive-after-metoo/
@Flat Lander
Her relationship with Jesus isn’t that of a servant of an undying LORD. And everlasting King who rules over all.
In England (according to Dr Johnson) Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. It seems to me that in America the last refuge of the scoundrel is to hide behind Jesus – obviously this would not work in England as such a person would be regarded as a ‘nutter’ – and that it seems to me is what Mrs Greqoire and her tearful daughter are doing with the added ‘ you can’t hit a girl’ trope thrown in for good measure.
I do feel that TFH’s seventy-two hour rule should here have been applied as like some of the women who used to arrive at this very blog what Mrs Gregoire really wants is attention and that she is achieving.
20th Century Fox gave Julie Andrews a terrible haircut.
Sheila: You AND your daughter started this fight by attacking Lori Alexander, whose article was a simple plain truth You picked the fight and now you can’t finish what you started.
Who is on God’s side? Remaining a virgin and putting husband and family first is Biblical.
By all means, call us misogynists, woman haters, false Christians, unloving. That attempt at shaming might have worked a few years ago but now it doesn’t. Men everywhere and Christians particularly are spotting the emotional rather than scriptural argument.
I would shut up. You have a tour of speaking engagements. If you continue, you will end up with nothing, because you’re digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole. You have been warned.
Repent.
Oscar,
“Jenny Erikson isn’t just a train wreck, she’s a public train wreck. What kind of moron looks at that train wreck and thinks, “that’s who I want to mother my children!”?????????????”
Thirsty guys need to stop dating, committing adultery with, and making babies with women who have frivolously divorced.
A break from the usual.
https://americandadweb.wordpress.com/2018/08/14/talk-about-catholic-guilt-try-serbian/
John Piper, a sick gazzelle of the veldt…
Semi-OT, although no more so than the RCC trivia choking too many threads on Dalrock’s forum lately like an oyster starving to death while stuffed full of Red Tide organisms:
From https://www.quora.com/Why-do-married-men-tell-unmarried-men-not-to-get-married
Anonymous
Answered Jan 4, 2016
“A number of reasons – I’m 25 and work in an environment surrounded by high net-worth men who have been divorced and experience a similar phenomenon; luckily they are preaching to the choir.
The most likely reason, unless the statement was made in response to something specific about you, is that the person regrets their choice to get married and simply wants to express their feelings in the form of ‘advice’. This dynamic happens often on Quora, and is present in most of the answers to this and many other questions. It’s why most advice holds little to no value to the recipient. Miserable married men often don’t have much opportunity to ‘let off steam’ and their pain is largely ignored by society, warning off younger men enables them to do so. I can’t add much to the woes of marriage than isn’t already covered in Chris’s robust answer, so I will tell you about the life of the colleague who sits next to me, who is one of those ‘don’t marry’ men, as perhaps it will help you understand why a person might feel that way.
The man is in his mid 50’s and is a kind, humble person, and has been a lawyer since 24. He supported his first wife whilst she also qualified as a lawyer, pulled strings to secure her first job, paid for everything including their house, only for her to decide she’d rather fuck her way to the top. He was tossed away like a used tissue, and she financially ruined him during the divorce. He was ordered to pay spousal maintenance despite her overtaking him on the career ladder, the one he placed her on. His second wife (yes he admits he’s an idiot) is a retired police officer, retired on medical grounds due to a disability that she developed around 3 months after marriage. This disability prevents her from working, taking the kids to school, cleaning, cooking or doing anything other than slave-driving this man, but thankfully it’s not severe enough to prevent her from strolling on the beach on holiday, skiing or going out to fancy bars and restaurants.
The man has the worst life imaginable for an otherwise privileged person (health, money, status etc). He wakes at 5am to walk the dogs, do the morning chores and make his wife breakfast in bed, he then takes the kids to school. He then commutes 1.5 hours into London, works a 10 hour day, commutes 1.5 hours home, walks the dogs, does the evening chores, makes his family dinner, massages his wife’s legs for 30 minutes each and then when he tries to go to sleep at around 1am, his wife sits in bed with her laptop on and quite often with the big light on in the room, she refuses to turn it off or stop so he can sleep. She has taught their daughters (aged 13 and 19) to treat him in the same way, it’s a house of three women and one whipping boy. He is currently a vegetarian against his will, because his 13 year old made him and his wife backed her up. When she suspected he’d eaten meat (he hadn’t – I was with him) she proceeded to bite him….that’s right, a 13 year old girl handing out corporeal punishment to her father, sanctioned by her mother.
The worst part about it all? He’s trapped, he cannot leave this torment. unless he wants to be financially ruined yet again only 8 years before he intends to retire. She’s already admitted that she will play on her, ahem, ‘disability’ to destroy him if he tries to leave. He’s accepted that this will be his life until he dies, it’s incredibly sad when you know him.
This man’s experience is a particularly bad situation. The other men in my office have their own divorce stories, including my boss who has had to get a restraining order against his ex-wife, but thankfully most are less extreme. What would you say to a younger person contemplating marriage if your life bore any resemblance to the above? This should answer your question as to why married men say ‘do not marry’ to you.
On a side note, as my answer no doubt alludes to, I have no intention of ever getting married. It is impossible to do sufficient due diligence to ensure that the person won’t turn into a burden/abuser, men are neither mind-readers nor fortune-tellers. The reward is almost nothing (for men) save a modest tax-break here and there and increased status as the spouses ‘next of kin’, but the risk is everything. If marriage were an investment vehicle no men (and therefore no women) would touch it, but in the real world the risk/reward defies all logic in favour of securing reproduction of one’s genes.”
Great news! According to a former FoTF staffer, happiness is now a sacrament!
http://thesacramentofhappy.net/
The theme of the FoTF radio show today: God wants us to be happy. Does this lead to the Sheila Syndrome or is it the natural progression?
This isn’t what she did though. Lori wrote an article telling Christian women that men have preferences. Sheila’s daughter made her response video to lecture men that this was wrong to have these preferences, even though they are Biblical. Then she went on to describe her dislike of male headship, that she doesn’t submit to her husband and that husbands are not worth waiting for. She asked for it with a poorly spoken, emotional tirade.
Lori’s article did not contain ‘legalism’, it told what Christian men prefer in a wife. Sheila and her daughter are in rebellion for not being in agreement. There disdain for male headship is clear to see. They are deserving of all the vitriol they perceive they are getting.
They promote sluttery, rebellion and false worship.
They promote sluttery, rebellion and false worship.
From her bio on “Family” Life Today;
“Known as a woman with common sense and real world advice, she isn’t afraid to use her trademark wit to challenge the conventional Christian culture—resulting in a formula for success which has earned her an online following in the hundreds of thousands.”
I understand this has been covered at length here, but, my personal windmill happens to be male evangelical royalty bringing these shrews (in many cases their daughters) into their “ministries.” They are given million$, automatic street cred cuz of Daddy, and a platform to peddle their errant/heretical/damning wares. They post their deceptive doublespeak right above their plugs for man-hating books they write. Their “favorite authors” list is a who’s who of mystics, heretics, and prosperity gospel adherents. Again, my throw up has thrown up in its own mouth.
@Earl
Unless the 50 yr old man and the 21 yr old girl are husband and wife…Shelia’s out of context argument falls flat on its face.”
It’s the fact that 5:21 is considered a statement all on its own and has anything to do with marriage that is out of context. See below. 5:21 is the end of a paragraph. Not a sentence.
but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, 20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 21 submitting to one another in the fear of [f]God.
Marriage—Christ and the Church
22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.
The children are going to be the ones who suffer the most. In fact she has another one on the way with this guy.
Oh, wow. From the Sacrament of Happy Crap that another commenter linked to:
“Imagine hearing your physician tell you that chips and queso contain more nutritional benefits than kale and quinoa.
In her new book, The Sacrament of Happy: What a Smiling God Brings to a Wounded World, Lisa Harper unveils a similarly extravagant, unexpected surprise, declaring that happiness is a gift from God that we can unashamedly enjoy.”
I’d fire my physician if he told me that, and that ought to be a clue that this author is just as much a quack as that doctor. From the pictures, I’d say the author needs to lay off the chips and queso, as well as the hatred for sound doctrine. Thanks for the warning, though, lady. It’s right there in the introductory paragraph. “I’m living in a fantasy world! Care to join me?” No thanks.
Are people really going to buy something that advertises itself as a blatant lie? Yeah, I guess they will. Itching ears. Heaps of bad teachers. Successful bad teachers who really ought to be shunned, or worse. It rankles. Thanks for blogging, Dalrock.
This is a spiritual war. And we are to fight with spiritual weapons. Gentlemen this problem requires prayer and fasting given how pervasive and how deep the problem is.
Women like create an opportunity for Christians. These are the sorts of “leaders” who have to be openly defied.
And any women who follow them should be told frankly: following women like Grigoire is not only a path out of Christianity. It’s a path to a lonely, miserable existence that ends with pushing a cat in a stroller and having a womb that may as well have been sprayed with Roundup Ready.
@ Bee
Amen. Now; how do we accomplish that?
In July 2010, Piper’s reply to the question “Is it wrong for men to listen to female speakers?” included this:
“So the answer is, no it is not wrong for you to listen to Beth Moore, but it could become wrong. I think Beth Moore would be happy with that answer. I’ve talked to her about this, and I think she would be OK with what I’ve said.”
*******************
UGH. Beth Moore. Used to do good stuff. Now one of the most dangerous false teachers out there, promoting extra biblical revelation, contemplative prayer and ecumenicalism. Her and all the others like Paula White and Joyce Meyer, and all their ilk (and there are MANY) need to repent and stop leading women astray. They lead men astray too.
Female “teachers” who lead women astray is the #1 thing that REALLY gets under my skin. Them and the pastors that let their dangerous teaching into their church and support their “Bible studies”.
DA,
Great find and post. Thanks for typing Moores podcast.
You nailed it, I won’t try to add to it, but I will share my disgust. That is so weak, and Moore completely ignores women’s sinful nature. And he is representative of complementarians, as you say. Empty words and saltless writing. His level of power amd influence is so frustrating to see, and be indirectly impacted by.
It’s as if they actually believe their politeness will still win out over feminists’ efforts.
AR,
That is a key thing I noted. They have a lot of stupidity, but hyperventilating because men prefer something is idiotic, especially since they definitely have their own preferences.
General note on the OP and related ones:
This is telling is we should sin, at least in the right circumstances! If it really expected us to not sin, we should not have any instructions on what to do if we do sin.
Them and the pastors that let their dangerous teaching into their church and support their “Bible studies”.
Exactly. These banshees are never given any Vitamin N. To do so would cause the Great Split Tail Exodus and cause the pastor to have to actually work for a living when the money is gone.
Great find on Piper’s supplication to Beth. Behold, the future of the SW Baptist Convention!
Actually, the future is now. Her and her coven already run it via Russell, Al, and J.D.
‘This is a spiritual war. And we are to fight with spiritual weapons. Gentlemen this problem requires prayer and fasting given how pervasive and how deep the problem is.’
Cosigned.
I wonder if Doug will take any note of Bnonn’s criticism of his writing. I suspect not, as he likely considers his admirers to be the only ones with a true understanding of his literary prowess.
@BillyS
Brilliant!
Plus, might I add that there is no indication that there will be thunderbolts thrown down, or that the earth will swallow us up if we sin. I have it on good authority that whenever the Bible mentions sin and doesn’t state that thunderbolts will come down, we are good to go.
OT: Pedowood strikes again:
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/michelle-visage-queerest-show-tv-helping-troubled-kids-090025151.html
This woman’s overworking her hamster:
https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/08/the-frustrating-shame-i-felt-after-deciding-to-have-kids-without-a-partner.html
Rick,
That is unfortunately true. Many Calvary Chapel pastors, who boast in their verse-by-verse approach make huge errors, such as applying mutual submission to marriage, instead of taking it the full context and applying it to church relationships.
I know the Greek doesn’t have punctuation, but the English versions show that was part of the previous sentence and hence thought rather than part of the instruction to husbands and wives. Yet they miss this in their verse-by-verse studies.
Kevin,
Anyone who says they know God doesn’t exist (atheism) is a complete and total idiot, whatever their background. You are right that they likely got offended.
I heard a saying of modern Jews which fits these atheist converts as well: “They are mad at the God they don’t believe in.” It is just basic rebellion. Women are especially good at that part today.
Though I fail to see how anyone could look at this world and not see the hand of some creator, when everything in life that is good requires a creator. Imagine this site if we let randomness take over.
Silly me, I thought that He wants us to live with Him forever. And I’m pretty sure that a lot of “happy people” won’t be in that number. Many are called, but few are chosen.
Dalrock (quoting BillyS) says:
August 14, 2018 at 10:21 am
This view pretty neatly sums up most churchian women’s idea of God and sin.
!From [Sheila’s] bio on “Family” Life Today;
“Known as a woman with common sense and real world advice, she isn’t afraid to use her trademark wit to challenge the conventional Christian culture—
Would “conventional Christian culture” here perhaps be a euphemism for “life as God commands us to live it in Scripture?”
Quite the unintentiojal revelation by FotF…
To anyone who thinks that redefining what is in the Bible is OK:
https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Adding-To-The-Bible
Some men are gluttons for punishment.
Heidi_storage says:
August 14, 2018 at 10:26 am
I didn’t read (and don’t plan on reading) the linked article, but the wording of the title alone is revealing. Note that she uses the word “partner” instead of husband. “Partner” could mean anything from pimp to boyfriend du jour to lesbian lover. Hardly any different from and certainly no better than having bastard children by random strangers.
She had her kids via anonymous donor, and spends the article explaining that it’s ridiculous for her to feel the shame she does and anyway choices are no more than a product of circumstance.
Oscar,
“Amen. Now; how do we accomplish that?”
“Judgement will begin with the household of God…”
We could start by challenging pastors and priests that marry divorced people. In some cases they could be helping couples commit adultery.
It’s a spiritual battle…women’s penchant for sloth comes from the same area as their lusts, huge egos and greed.
I’m sure nobody ever talks about how one of the effects of pursuing physical tingles can often lead to spiritual laziness…which eventually becomes physical laziness.
True…but how do we also stop people like Jenny & Chad from producing children out of wedlock?
Heidi_storage says:
August 14, 2018 at 11:33 am
Thank you for reading that article so that the rest of us don’t have to. 😊
Maybe Sheila and her daughter should extend forgiveness to men who sin sexually and not just tatted non-virgin women.
Women often cannot see their hypocrisy.
Imagine…trying to challenge Christian tradition. They used to make that grounds for excommunication…now like everything else wimminz rebellion to evil is celebrated.
True…but how do we also stop people like Jenny & Chad from producing children out of wedlock?
In the past there were plenty of VERY effective ways of, if not completely preventing, at least heavily discouraging this practice by making it so costly for both parties that most men and women feared even thinking about doing so. Unfortunately, our “enlightened” modern society won’t even consider bringing these punishments back and would actively persecute anyone who even suggested it (I certainly don’t need to tell anyone here that the persecutors would include the church).
No, bastard children and their unmarried parents are going to remain one of the most intractable blights upon our society until Jesus returns and shows these people the error of their ways once it’s too late.
Oscar,
An older guy who is pulling a younger woman than he would otherwise most likely.
Bee,
Which makes me think I will never find a good prospect for a wife in the future. Incredible risk.
Yeah Dalrock, that hit me just this morning. I think another verse might be even better. God’s provision for failure is not a command to fail. Though any solid preaching of grace can imply that, since Paul was accused of encouraging people to sin. Though his writings are completely twisted by those like Wilson who invert the meaning.
Once again, the truth is twisted into a lie.
While I agree we need to be much more skeptical here, this is not the primary needed change. Standing for the proper roles of men and women in marriage as well as not letting a woman nuke things because she was unhappy and threw out the “abuse” card would do far more. Many women who do that do not want remarriage, so prohibiting that would nothing other than punish the wronged men.
I would almost argue that it is just as bad as Doug Wilson’s proclamation that harming innocent men is worth the cost of saving the innocent women. Some women do jump from marriage to marriage, but why should a man be prohibited a family because his wife was unfaithful? (The reverse could apply, though I would also question if the wife kept herself attractive, with a good attitude, etc.)
Worshiping women is the problem, not remarriage.
@ Bee
Sounds like a good start.
Saw this on PAWorldandTimes Blog:
“This is along the lines that I was thinking. As things stand, women are designed to f. wildly between the ages of 15 and 25. They shift into matronly mode after that, as they should. So:
Ordering a society in a way that discourages 15-year-old girls from marrying but requires them to be celibate until they’re of acceptable marriage age places an unreasonable burden on women.
Ordering a society in a way that discourages 15-year-old girls from marrying but allows them to f. before they’re of acceptable marriage age places an unreasonable burden on men.”
Wow! That’s a doozy! It’s Sheila’s way or the highway gents! Haha! Looks like she gets to determine what is good and what is evil. A picture of what happened when Eve ate that fruit.
Oscar says:
August 14, 2018 at 12:07 pm
@ Bee
We could start by challenging pastors and priests that marry divorced people. In some cases they could be helping couples commit adultery.
Sounds like a good start.
******************************
Some do. MY daughters Church wont marry divorced people. They actively counsel them to understand what the Bible says about and to end those relationships.
My kid is one of the ones that counsel single girls to end relationships with divorced men.
@Bee & Oscar
Not gonna happen. You ever seen anybody tell a divorced man here that? How does that go?
These women aren’t really harming me. I can just leave a church and ignore them. Ultimately, their destroying women, the people who they are apparently standing up for . I have a few examples from my church of about 200 people. ( Warning: Wall of text incoming):
1) One woman was single and was pretty frank about wanted to be married and have kids. She’s not very attractive and she is really weird and has strange biblical ideas. In her frustration of being single, she decided to adopt a kid and become a single mother. Most of the women in my circle thought this was a great idea and would pat her on the back telling her what a great person she was. About six months after the successful adoption, she is crying nearly everyday ( literally in tears ) because it’s so hard being a single mother and she doesn’t get any help (i.e, no man wants to marry her and save her out her bad choice.). Those same women who were patting her on the back were relieved when she eventually left.
2) Another woman is someone I actually consider my sister in the Lord. She loving, sweet, great with kids. Problem is, she’s about 5’6 and around 250-300 pounds. All the women in the church tell her God has someone who will love her for who she is, she just needs to have faith. Needless to say, she is still single and has not changed her eating habits and never exercises because, I guess, “faith” alieves her of those things. The women in the church don’t seems to realize her family has a history of diabetes and rheumatoid arthritis and her lifestyle is probably going to kill/ seriously debilitate her.
3) Another woman is a single mother, has tattoos from her neck to her feet, posts selfies that always showed her cleavage ( she has huge breasts ), and self describes herself as an “alpha-female” who doesn’t want a man not strong enough to deal with her situation. She also posts about how depressed she is because she’s alone and how hard her life is. The women in our church told her to keep her head up because God would bring a man who deserved her.
There is a cost to pay for bad hermeneutics coupled with good intentions and the cost will be paid by women who follow these feminist teachings.
*they’re
Or… You could stop going to church like many men are doing. Married 23 years. Sick and tired of pastors not studying the bible and only preaching what they were taught to learn and preach. Sick and tired of this ministry and that ministry soaking money that could go to real widows and real orphans. Sick and tired of fat sad sack men filling the pews so that they can look like the fat pastor. Sick and tired of songs that sing about how Jesus loves me and songs about me, my, us and not about Him and His glory. Sick of the youth pastor who looks like he just woke up and is wearing clothes that look as though they haven’t been washed in a month, doesn’t have the T to shave or hasn’t shaved in a week.
Forget about the male female crap the pastor passes off as biblical. All the other stuff is fluff for the women any way.
Regarding Ephesians 5:21-22:
There seems to be confusion regarding the manuscripts and translation here.
The Greek manuscripts seem to agree on the following:
v. 21 is at the end of a long string of participial clauses where the participles act as imperatives. It literally says:
“… submitting to one another in fear of Christ….”
v. 22 either has or does not have the word “submit” depending on the manuscript. The Byzantine manuscript (related to the Textus Receptus which the KJV was based on) has the word “submit”:
“Wives, to your own husbands submit yourselves as to the Lord….”
Thus this is the start of a new sentence.
The “eclectic” text, AKA Nestle Aland 28th edition, lacks the word:
“… wives, to your own husband as to the Lord….”
In that view this verse is part of the sentence beginning in v. 18.
I’m inclined to think that the Byzantine text is correct because otherwise this would be the only instance where the participle is omitted in the sequence of participial imperatives.
It is strange that the ESV, which is based on the eclectic text, nevertheless translates v. 22 as
“Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.”
That is, it supplies the missing word as a simple imperative. In fact, most translations I looked at (NIV 2011 for example) also had this.
I believe the real mischief here is done in the translation of v. 21 by failing to translate the participle. Even the NASB, which ordinarily tries hard to get the participles right, renders the participle as a simple imperative. Explicitly translating the participle makes clear the connection of v. 21 to the previous material. Possibly this tendency to render the participle as a simple imperative reflects a desire to structurally connect v. 21 to what comes after rather than what comes before.
If the word “submit” is omitted in v. 22, then v. 22 is structurally connected to v. 21. If it is present, v. 22 is a segue to a new, though related, thought process. But either way it doesn’t seem valid to argue that the whole passage (i.e. down to v. 25ff) tells HUSBANDS to submit.
Re: Anonymous Reader,
In response to your question check out Pastor Steve Anderson, he is very clear about feminism.
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@Jeff
“Sick and tired of fat sad sack men filling the pews so that they can look like the fat pastor.”
*********************************
I see more fat, unhealthy and out of shape people at Church than I do Wal-Mart. Donuts, one of the most unhealthy things on the planet, are sold or served. Some are so large they have a difficult tie standing.
At least my pastor does work out and is very much in shape. In fact, he said “I’m gonna step on some toes here” when preaching about sin and addressed gluttony.
Evidently obesity is a “big” problem in the church we are ignoring. Read somewhere that Christians are more obese than average…..doesn’t mean most or all….it’s a problem in The Salvation Army for sure……
Myself and one fellow single brother did sit ups and crunches together, and walked frequently together. I have my own workout routine at home bc joining a gym would be detrimental to my Ego in these matters……
Here in the Bay Area, people are in general more slender than inland California, I noticed this immediately upon moving back here.
I talked a female relative out of making that mistake. She had just turned 50 and wanted to adopt a baby. I reminded her that she would be in her late 60’s when the kid finished high school and that seemed to hit home and she didn’t move forward, thankfully. Also, she’s a churchian. I’m sure Pastor Bob told her to go for it.
It’s not just that. It seems all the boys and girls at biblical teaching churches including Calvary Chapel are just plain nerdy. It’s almost as if physical activity is discouraged except running and most don’t do that. On the other end the mega churches have kids who drink, sex it up, and compete in sports and are with the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.
Jeff…that’s everywhere……even in my small Corps in Fresno. The teenagers? Most have little social skills, buried in a handheld every time I see them…poor personal habits OR…..are the top-tier teens (10-20%) who have nailed every teen girl in the Corps.
Kettle Bells. Very little space need and some pretty intense workouts.
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Cane Caldo,
“Not gonna happen. You ever seen anybody tell a divorced man here that? How does that go?”
Baby steps, I did get a deacon to reverse course on dating a divorced mom that went to his church. I showed him the Scriptures in Matthew about divorce and remarriage and warned him about adultery. He was receptive, he had not considered those Scriptures before even though he was a regular Bible reader.
(I do believe in the exception clause for those whose spouse committed adultery.)
Kettlebells are great. But if $$ is an issue, or even if not, bodyweight is great. Pistol squats, push ups, pull ups and handstand pushups or at least inclined push ups are all you need. Every other day to failure.
I personally do pull ups with an extra 15lbs on my back, and push ups with an extra 25lb plate on my back. 50 pushups and 25 pull ups.
But diet is king. I eat 95% carnivorous. Very few vegetables, and only if I really have to. My wife is about 85% carnivore as well.
meatheals.com
And of course Piper is a gun grabber.
@Bee
We’ll see.
Joe,
I agree. Nothing like body weight exercises. I use to say all you need is a pull up bar and running shoes, but I have gone to heavy lifts and running. I do have all the things I need in the basement that gets used so regularly that it needs cleaning weekly, it’s near my reloading area that holds my safe with all my guns.
We went to one church years ago and the only guy that looked like a man and not a gender neutral weakling was playing the drums. I thought they had to pay someone outside the church to play the drums. Nope, he was actually a church member and is the only manly guy there. My daughter married him…
He hit the lotto. She is a personal trainer with a side of dietician who does crossfit and held her HS xcountry record. She is mama’s daughter though and so the FI is strong in her, but he is 7 years older and just chuckles at her shit tests.
@ Cane Caldo
Actually, I haven’t. I’ll watch for that from now on.
I’ll say it again:
A woman’s worst enemy is her friends.
@Jeff
Diet, Lifting weights really are the best actions.
But for male fatasses I think it is best to start with prolonged salt-water fasting – 48hr to 72hr fasts followed by a 20 minute refeed and then go again. The longer between refeeds, the better.
This forces prolonged periods of ketosis and people lose body fat like a mother.
Fat assess can easily go days and weeks without eating. And the fat melts right off.
The best thing is you don’t lose muscle mass.
If fatass men would combine such prolonged fasting with walking long distances – 3 to 4 miles per day, then the weight loss just accelerates.
Plus, fasting heals the body of toxins, sores and injuries.
The body response is really incredible.
The knee-jerk reaction to this is “oh my God, that’s starving yourself!!”
Not if you’re a fatass. It’s impossible to starve yourself with a proverbial warehouse of fat around your waist, tits, back, jowls and arms.
Once at a safer weight, lifting weights with authority is very effective.
Best thing is – it’s free.
One thing I don’t understand:
How come Christian men don’t simply tell these dumb broads like Sheila “No!”?
Just say no guys.
Alwasy had a slender build…even when I was skiing hardcore in college. I was not a “champion swimmer” but I was good, always used the ppol at college…..got a swimmers V but little or no mass built.
My hike last summer I dropped 22 lbs, and my waist went down from a 32 (where I have been since the late 1990’s) to a 30. The push-ups / sit-ups / squat thrust routine has kept me firm, but no mass. It’s cool. Even when the Scoutmaster who mentored me back in 2010 said after weeks of helping on his ranch in Fresno said “What the hell? When I was swinging a shovel for a few weeks I was putting bulk on……you aren’t…the hells’ matter with you?”
I look good for my age, but was never a built guy. The mosy I ever weight was 175. I’m about 150 right now
I was thinking about doing a respectful response video to Katie. You know, address flaws in her logic, that sort of thing.
Then I watched the video again (it’s been a week) and realized that there’s no logic to be had. Katie seems to lack the ability – or it is latent in this vid – to parse out the facts and syllogisms that Lori uses and address ostensible false facts or errors in her reasoning.
As a result, Katie can’t vocalize a single reasoned rebuttal. She comes close a few times, mentioning Lori’s view that there is no alternative vocation to wife/mother or that it is the husband’s job to tell her how/what to think – however neither of these views are actually espoused by Lori in the article so the only “close but no cigar” examples of reasoning Katie can be shown to do amount to straw men.
Otherwise, it’s all (as seasoned commenters here have noted) just stream-of-emotional-consciousness. And therefore there’s nothing of substance to do a response to. There’s only one way to address someone in that frame of mind:
Send them to their room until they are ready to rationally explain their thoughts.
No disrespect to Katie, but the video is an absolute embarrassment. If I were her husband I would be telling her to take it down. She’ll thank him in 5 years.
A deacon didn’t know about that? Do they teach them anything in seminary anymore?
1) Either they don’t want to hurt her feelings and just let her believe her crazy lies
2) Or if men do tell her ‘no’ she accuses them of being un Christian, un Christlike, or whatever other insult she can come up with to justify her crazy lies. The goddess mindset hardens their hearts to any correction.
“This is a spiritual war. And we are to fight with spiritual weapons. Gentlemen this problem requires prayer and fasting given how pervasive and how deep the problem is.”
It also requires sexual fasting to keep the mind free from duress.
Before a man dates a woman he should masturbate twice.
When a man is thinking of doing something for a woman,he should masturbate twice before considering it,remarkable how it clears the mind.
It’s also a good preparation for the sexless times to come after she’s spring her righteous man-trap and is “preying” with chad on the side.
“Our Chad who art heavenly,let us prey for my husbands wallet to never run dry,let us use the coercion of rabid feminazi doctrine and social proofing invalidation to bring him to his knees.”
constrainedlocus says: Fat assess can easily go days and weeks without eating. And the fat melts right off. The best thing is you don’t lose muscle mass.,/I>
YMMV I once went from 230 -185 in 5 months through fasting and low carb eating when my wife first ran out on me. However, I should have been ripped to shreds at 185 Lbs. but unfortunately my body chose to drop a lot of muscle and hang onto some stubborn belly fat. I got really weak and stopped. I was wanting to go down to having a ripped six-pack. I actually had a small wrinkle beginning on my belly from extra skin. Anyhow that was over 6 years ago. Now I’m 210 and can sort of see all my abs in the right lighting even though I gained about 5 pounds in the last week. I’m much stronger now. I think fasting is great, but don’t kid yourself about not losing muscle, unless you are really taking some good anti-catabolic supplements. Especially when you get old, and have more muscle than your body likes to carry. It is hard to keep all the hard earned muscle on while dieting in almost any fashion. I’m not as tall as Jason, but I’m carrying about 50 pounds more muscle, bone, and organs and probably an extra 10 pounds of fat too. It is hard for me to lose those ten pounds of fat without also having my lifts all go down, or taking some pretty harsh “research chemicals”, that I prefer not to take due to their unknown long term effects. So at this age, unless I want to do more guinea pig “research” on myself, I can chose between being really strong with poor abdominal definition, or having cool looking abs, but being noticeably weaker. You can’t have it all, all the time. Like the ladies need to learn, you can’t have everything, great education, great career, great kids, great husband, great Feminist credentials, great freedom, something has to give.
@Tom:
The whole video was a straw man enforced with extreme appeal to emotion. She somehow turned an article about Christian men preferring debt-free virgins who don’t have tattoos into ” OMG! If you like, get a cross tattooed on your body or whatever God doesn’t want you anymore! Like really?”
Also, I doubt her husband tells her to do anything.
I want to stay firm…but me being a guy with serious “definition” will never happen unless I join a gym and make that my life…..and even a younger cat keeping that “hot bod” takes serious work.
My cardio / endurance is excellent…..I hover around 50 bpm resting pulse….and even with a slightly enlarged heart……very proud of this accomplishment……..I walk probably ten miles a week as well for errands instead of hopping on the scooter. SInce that hike I have “picked up” smoking cigarettes again. Not heavy…..a pack a week……but it bothers me that I dropped this for eight years and “weak” enough to go back to this. Kind of pathetic actually.
Hey…I am older, me rtying to compete looks wise or ‘tude wise with a man ten years my junior or more is silly……..my situation was bad in Fresno dating wise, even worse here. Potential wife material here is non-existent. There might have been an iota in Fresno….but here….below zero.
It’s cool. I know the situation I am in but I refuse to let myself go. I will keep myself up the best I can looks wise…despite thining hair 😉
The information contained in this thread all by itself should be more than enough to convince anyone that there is no such thing as a Christian feminist.
No disrespect to Katie, but the video is an absolute embarrassment
Exactly. Sheila is bearing false witness by claiming it was an “awesome” video.
constrainedlocus — “One thing I don’t understand:
How come Christian men don’t simply tell these dumb broads like Sheila “No!”?
Just say no guys.”
How come Adam didn’t simply tell that dumb broad Eve ‘No!’?
New Millennium, same reasons.
Is America a Christian country? For reasons I forget, on Wiki, I was looking at South Bend, Indiana. South Bend, Indiana has sixteen FM radio stations of which three are avowedly Christian. Some years ago I made a list of the FM stations that I can pick up: there were eleven of which five were run by the BBC. None of the stations were Christian stations and apart from Choral Evensong once a week (repeated Saturday) the only avowedly Christian propaganda and not even that as you sometimes get a Rabbi and now for all I know an Imam is Thought for the Day which is just a minute or so every morning (both Thought for the Day and Choral Evensong are from the BBC though on different BBC stations). I cannot see that America remains anything other than a very Christian country (even if there is considerable heresy) – at least in South Bend, Indiana.
May I be informed as to whether the average American church has an Organ – and I mean a proper one with Pipes and any number of manuals including one for the feet and not just a Yamaha DX7, Wurlitzer, Moog or the like. Drums – I can’t get my head around that?
Opus-
It depends on how you operationalize and relate the two words “Christian” and “Country” to each other.
Could America have come into existence without Christianity? No
Are there a lot of Christians in America? Sure
But is she a “Christian country?” Meh
From my perspective, in order for a “Christian country” to exist, it would not have a first amendment. Especially not contemplated the way we do today where there is a “wall of separation between church and state” and this “wall” is used as a club to destroy any and all mentions, appearances and references to the Christian faith in public, or by public officials.
Tom, Rick,
” Katie seems to lack the ability – or it is latent in this vid – to parse out the facts and syllogisms that Lori uses and address ostensible false facts or errors in her reasoning.”
Only 21 and very emotional but Katie refers to herself as a “teacher”. Neither Katie or her mom should be teaching anything to anyone.
Opus-
The PC-USA church we attended in Georgia had an organ like that. Literally built into the building. Most Catholic Churches if they are old enough do. Other than older churches built by liturgical denominations, you aren’t likely to find it anymore. Of course, the Orthodox Church sings acapella, so no instruments at all.
Agreed, Bee.
Thinking about it, there is a place for a gut-level “this just feels off” response to something, even when you can’t quite articulate why. If I’m to be charitable, I’ll assume this is what Katie is laboring under.
However, a teacher deserving of respect will take the time to suss out objective reasons for it before presenting their thoughts. At most, they might make a public statement that “the article in question contains statements that raise red flags in my mind,” and then take up the work of figuring out why and how they can present a reasoned (even if still passionate) explanation and rebuttal.
I read somewhere that Katie spent 7 hours working on the video. I’m willing to bet the breakdown looks like this:
Hair, makeup, and wardrobe: 2 hours
Filming: 0.5 hour
Editing footage: 2.5 hours
Finding/adding music and effects: 1 hour
Screaming in frustration between takes: 1 hour
Thinking it through: 0 hours
I’m not, in principle, against her doing a video response. But it serves no purpose to simply emote for the camera. An entire day of her productivity was wasted. To say nothing of the time wasted by viewers; doing the math assuming that 69k of the vid’s viewers watched the whole thing, that comes to more than 527 24 hour DAYS of human productivity. (Course, that time probably would have been spent on cat videos otherwise.)
If she’d spent 6.5 hours thinking about the subject and talking it through with reasonable people she might have been able to turn on the camera for 15 min and present something coherent. 15 min to upload and share (skip the “production”), and you’ve produced something that moves the conversation forward, in the same time. Or maybe thought better of it and skipped it.
Either way, she’d have been more enriched, and the world would be a better place.
@Scott
I take your point. When I was in America at Xmas there was always some Town Hall being asked to take down its crib. Can’t get my head round the idea of a Protestant Church without an Organ, not that I am over-partial to its sound. Every Anglican Church in England has one.
For me, every serious church should lay on a Symphony Orchestra each week with Soloists and Chorus and performing a Mass by Mozart, Schubert or Bruckner and thus in the manner they were intended for performance – and (I have said it here before) I have seen one of Schubert’s done that way in St Paul’s Cathedral (which is of course an Anglican Cathedral) – just amazing! – never after that have I wanted to hear such a piece in the Concert Hall.
lol…..just like everyone in “The South” is a Christian…..well, that’s the opinion in California anyway
Just like Jesus and the Apostles did it, by God!
I hope this is sarcasm.
Perhaps the roots were more Christian when it was founded…however we’ve done a good job of killing the roots.
Should be noted…that’s also the same problem in many of the Christian churches too.
Speaking of mothers…Happy Feast of the Assumption.
Why the Devil Hates the Blessed Virgin So Much (And Why You Should Love Her)
https://www.catholicgentleman.net/2015/01/devil-hates-blessed-virgin-much-love/
earl — “Speaking of mothers…Happy Feast of the Assumption.”
Give it a rest with the Catholic dogma.
No.
Mary is the greatest possible example of responsible and healthy womanhood. May she be more fully understood, by both men and women, in our lawless and degenerate epoch.
This is the traditional protestant prayer for today…
O God, you have taken to yourself the blessed Virgin Mary, mother of your incarnate Son: Grant that we, who have been redeemed by his blood, may share with her the glory of your eternal kingdom; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever. Amen.
Regards,
Boxer
You’re developing a rebellious heart, young earl. Perhaps you’ve already been in this world too long.
ray – look at it as a learning opportunity for those who don’t know what earl knows. The conventional wisdom says there are many more folks reading than commenting. So maybe earl has new students every day.
@Dr Torch: Exactly. Sheila is bearing false witness by claiming it was an “awesome” video.
So you think that men and women think alike?
If you don’t see it, it doesn’t exist? If it is good for you, it is good for everybody?
The experience of the men who post in these parts is that women thrive on emoting. To the extent that this is true, then of course Sheila thinks her daughter made an awsome video. You are judging “awsome” by whether it is logical. Sheila is judging “awsome” by whether it is emotional. And, by that standard, it WAS awsome. (says others; I haven’t watched the video)
You run this blog, ray?
Our brothers on the Protestant side of the aisle have a different understanding of what the Diaconate is vs. Catholics, Orthodox and other ancient churches. I don’t think they go to seminary, Bible College, etc. I would also guess that in most denominations it’s not an ordained office.
Frank K is correct. Deacon is often equated with the Greek word for a servant (I’m told), who basically carries out assignments from the elders. No theological training involved.
Still odd that a regular Bible reader deacon would be surprised by information from the Gospel according to Matthew. Dating the church lady divorcee does fit the “man up” pattern that Dalrock often exposes however – but I overextend my analytical powers about a man I do not know.
Kudos to Bee for broaching the subject with him.
Yeah I’m certainly no Bible scholar but I know about the ‘don’t marry a divorced woman’ part. Surprised a regular bible reader didn’t know that.
Salvation Army “deacons” (Corps Srgt Majors) are required training, some are excellent. Most I have the opinion of shrugged shoulders……their kids were hardly saints, and I never understood why they would allow single mothers to become one…..but a man like myself (drug addiction in his past) would be passed over
seventiesjason,
Were you told drug addiction in your past kept you from being a Corps Sgt. Major? They have allowed a never-married single mother to be one?
“You run this blog, ray?”
You trolling for backup, boy? Fight your own fights.
This. Is. Epic. Definitely worth a watch, entertaining and Biblically instructive.
The definitive Katie Emerson (Sheila’s daughter in the video) takedown:
I’ll ask you again.
Do you run this blog, ray?
The firefight on Twitter continues. I called in the heavy artillery, i.e., @RationalMale (heh he just joined in of course, men stick together) to “fire for effect” and he obliged with relentless Red Pill logic.
Christians in Sheila’s camp whoreship three pagan idols today aka the three V’s.
These are Vagina, Victimhood and Violence. You see the first two very clearly in play in this article. The third one will manifest itself soon enough in Christian communities as it is already doing so in the secular world.