In her book The Dating Manifesto: A Drama-Free Plan for Pursuing Marriage with Purpose, Lisa Anderson explains why she didn’t start considering marriage until she was 30. As she recognizes (to a degree), her story is a feminist cliché. As a girl she was “intoxicated” with the idea of being a woman on her own, living a life of “freedom and joie de vivre”. Moreover, her feminist mindset was repeatedly encouraged by the adults around her:
Sadly, as I immersed myself in girl power at school, I received little at church and beyond to counter it. Most of the well-meaning couples in my parent’s circle saw no reason to question my trajectory toward worlldly success; many of them outright supported it. I was told… to focus on my education and career. Here are a few of the mantras I commonly received–see if any of them sound familiar:
“Make sure you can support yourself; it’s a tough world out there!”
“You’re so smart; you don’t want to waste your intelligence [implied: by getting married too soon].”
“We’re expecting big things from you.”
You have your whole life ahead of you–have fun while you can!”
“Relax; marriage will happen when it happens.”
“I wish I’d had all the opportunities you have.”
As she was taught, she expected marriage to “just happen” for her, and her only focus was making sure it didn’t happen too soon. She contrasts this with her mother’s mindset:
…my mom finished college, but marriage was a next step. It was always a priority. It was talked about, planned for, and expected. She didn’t mess around when she spotted my dad; she got busy.
She is right, the difference is stark. She was empowered to focus on everything but marriage. This empowerment depended on the pretense that she wasn’t responsible for finding a husband. This would “just happen”, and her greatest fear was allowing it to happen too soon. Her mother on the other hand felt responsible to make it happen.
This is where the modern Christian obsession with an idealized form of dating comes in. It reinforces the same feminist message Anderson received as a girl and young woman, but it sounds traditional. As I quoted before from an interview with Anderson on the topic (emphasis mine):
HOW DO YOU ENCOURAGE YOUNG ADULTS TO ACTIVELY PURSUE MARRIAGE, INSTEAD OF PASSIVELY ASSUMING THAT IT WILL JUST HAPPEN “SOMEDAY” OR “EVENTUALLY”?
I believe marriage is an intentional pursuit. It begins by praying boldly for marriage and your future spouse. It involves preparation and growing into mature adulthood so you’re in a position to marry. And finally, it’s an active search. For men, this means literally finding women of character (Prov. 18:22) and asking them out. For women, it means being open to marriage, talking about our desire for it, and accepting offers of dates from eligible, godly men.
This is what Focus On The Family’s expert on the subject is telling Christian women!
Notice that for modern Christian women, women who are awash in the same feminist temptations and mantras that Anderson was, being proactive about marriage means talking about wanting to marry, and waiting to be asked out and won over by her future husband. Unlike Anderson’s mother, the modern Christian woman is told that her job isn’t to try to find a husband. It is the man’s job to find her and win her over. This of course is what we see in practice from young Christian women as they follow the same feminist script Anderson followed. They talk about wanting marriage while waiting for the man of their dreams to make it happen (but only once they have achieved all of their feminist credentials). Of course this naturally devolves into complaining about men:
Where have all of the good men gone?
What is wrong with men?
Why won’t they step up, state their intention to court me for marriage, and ask me on a paid date?
But some women are sharper than others, and sooner or later they figure out that if they want a particular man they need to do something other than sit around and bitch about not being married. They do like Anderson’s mother did and use their feminine wiles to snag their man before another woman beats them to it.
Internalizing a sense of responsibility for finding a husband helps women in other ways, beyond just out competing the clueless complaining squad. Much of the problem is that the women don’t have an accurate sense of their own marriage market value, or league. They have been told repeatedly by Christian leaders that they are incredibly beautiful, and their moxie and girlpower makes them a catch. The problem (they are repeatedly told) is that the men they deserve are failing to man up and ask them out. As a result they typically have a greatly inflated sense of their own prospects with no way to get real world feedback. The lack of fantasy dates isn’t taken as unrealistic standards, but yet more proof that something is mysteriously wrong with men.
If on the other hand a woman goes against modern Christian teaching and thinks like Anderson’s mother did, she has a way to get real world feedback on her own attractiveness. She can subtly indicate interest to the kind of men she thinks would be a match for her, men she is attracted to. If her standards are too high and the man isn’t interested, or is only interested if fornication is on the table, her ego is bruised but she has retained deniability in her expression of interest. As her over inflated ego is reduced to reality, eventually she will be able to feel attraction for the kind of man who wants to marry her. Internalizing responsibility creates a mechanism for her to both get real world feedback on her self perception, and for her to be able to become attracted to the kind of man she can attract for marriage.
See Also: Feminine wiles
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If her standards are too high and the man isn’t interested, or is only interested if fornication is on the table, her ego is bruised but she has retained deniability in her expression of interest. As her over inflated ego is reduced to reality, eventually she will be able to feel attraction for the kind of man who wants to marry her. Internalizing responsibility creates a mechanism for her to both get real world feedback on her self perception, and for her to be able to become attracted to the kind of man she can attract for marriage.
I actually think that the effect of that is less in this era than in prior ones, due to technology — social media and Tinder and so on. Average looking women are getting hundreds if not thousands of men throwing adulation at them constantly throughout their 20s and well into the 30s. This leads most of these women to believe that their value is a lot higher than it actually is for LTR/marriage, regardless of the relatively smaller amount of real world feedback she is getting — the virtual feedback is a flood and it is overwhelmingly inflative even for average looking women. A woman who is taking the smart approach stays off social media and Tinder, but that woman is already a very outlierish person in the under 35 crowd, and has self-selected in a very significant way just by doing that.
A lot of this leads back to the modern Christian superstition that being proactive is un-Godly.
Everything you do, you should make sure that God is telling you to do so and that it is “God’s calling.” This leaves young people massively confused on what is their own will and what is the secret “God’s will” that they should be able to hear.
Being truly blessed means never having to work for these people. A husband should be like manna from heaven and it is either God’s timing for not providing right now (but just keep having faith and get ego boosted every Sunday to stay on the path without huge depression) or God is telling men to step up and they aren’t listening to God.
I saw a video awhile back. I don’t want to post it here because it actually is quite heart breaking to see and the girl has my complete sympathy but it speaks to what Novaseeker says.
The girl in the video suffers from a degenerative disease that leaves her deformed, I wouldn’t say hideous, but half her face sags and her spine is deformed and other such abnormalities.
However, she has over 500000 subscribers, has a channel devoted to dressing up and receives countless support from guys in the comments. There are at least some truthful comments trying to disabuse her of the notion that she is pretty but the vast majority try and inflate her ego, some even promising to be her one and only.
Obviously, this doesn’t work, the poor girl knows she has problems but that doesn’t stop the thirst from flowing..
Sadly, as I immersed myself in girl power at school, I received little at church and beyond to counter it….
That is the story of most young women. I have argued on this site time and again that western women are victims of feminism themselves. When a young girl is bombarded by every voice imaginable that she is God’s gift to the Universe, that her poop is golden and her fart smells like a rose, sooner or later, she will start to believe it.
I’d like to add that the Church is mostly responsible for this decay in society. No, the Church did not cause it, but it is responsible for it, because there is no objective moral truth anywhere but the Church of Jesus Christ. And when the Church fails to proclaim the truth from the housetops, the feminists will hijack the conversation, and mislead the coming generation.
How much of this attitude of “wait for a man” ties back to Christian views on what makes a woman modest versus immodest?
Here is Charles Finney (a preacher) on this subject:
Brethren, our preaching will bear its legitimate fruits. If immorality prevails in the land, the fault is ours in a great degree. If there is a decay of conscience, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the public press lacks moral discrimination, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the church is degenerate and worldly, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the world loses its interest in religion, the pulpit is responsible for it. If Satan rules in our halls of legislation, the pulpit is responsible for it. If our politics become so corrupt that the very foundations of our government are ready to fall away, the pulpit is responsible for it. Let us not ignore this fact, my dear brethren; but let us lay it to heart, and be thoroughly awake to our responsibility in respect to the morals of this nation.
Source: here
@squid_hunt
That is certainly the claim. But look at the real world difference between Anderson and her mom (now vs 1950s). Now the strong career woman rides the carousel and soaks up social media attention while patiently waiting for her chivalrous knight to sweep her into marriage. There is nothing meek or submissive or modest about it. It is feminist empowerment framed as modesty. On the other hand her mother used feminine wiles, without formally asking the man out, to take action to get her man.
Great point Novaseeker on how social media makes the problem far worse. I saw a meme the other day that made me laugh:
@Dalrock.
That is a valid point.
GBFM’s main thesis (as best as I can discern!):
o Feminism transferred ‘ownership’ of women from husbands to the corporate state
These are two separate and competing worlds, separate cultures, separate mindsets, separate goals.
I think it’s difficult for even smart women to serve these two masters. The corporate state wants her completely and doesn’t want to share her with a man and family.
Can a woman serve the corporate world until she’s 30 … and then magically pivot to a husband and family thereafter?
Even if she marries, she’s still culturally part of the corporate state, which sets her and hubby up for great difficulty.
Some of this mindset / brainwashing / “empowerment” is just splitting the difference. Radical feminism and of course separatist feminism (often lesbian separatist) insisted on “don’t need no man!” way back in the 1970’s. Women’s biological nature rebels against that in various ways, but not as much as older tradcons expected. So we get not just the carousel riders, but carousel watchers who vicariously experience a bit of their sisters / friends riding – social media is strong stuff.
The conservative feminists just split the difference between the radfems “no boys allowed!” and the actual biological reality that a woman should be married by the age of 24 for a lot of reasons. Then we get the mixed messages that boil down to “get married, but not too soon” where “too soon” is a continuously moving target.
Oh, and rebellion against men manifests in many ways, most obviously such as “She needs a college degree just in case…”.
“Relax; marriage will happen when it happens.”
There is a theological term for “God will do everything for me, I can just sit here under a tree and wait” but I’m too busy to look for it. Someone else probably knows the proper term.
It is also interesting to contrast the “My husband will be delivered to me on the porch when the TIme Comes” with the sheer level of busy-ness that modern women visibly display. Of course a lot of busy-ness is wasted motion due to poor planning, but never mind that. There’s always something more important to do than actually converse with a man…
Some of this likely carries over to marriage. I can think of a couple of married women with children who live their lives as an endless list of “to do”, waaaaaay at the bottom just after “Clean the toilet” there is some note about doing something with what’s-his-name.
PS:
In terms of neuroplasticity, a woman in her 20’s is forming pathways (habits) that will be more and more difficult to change the longer she continues to reinforce them. It’s not just the carousel, the milder version of Girls Night Out, etc. is also a factor. Something similar goes for men as well.
OP — “Much of the problem is that the women don’t have an accurate sense of their own marriage market value, or league. They have been told repeatedly by Christian leaders that they are incredibly beautiful, and their moxie and girlpower makes them a catch.”
Forty y.o. women, FIFTY y.o. women . . . coming on to me? The WHAT?
Utterly clueless about their sexual and personal value. Zee row know. Fifty years of telling every female that she is AWESOME and a PERFECT ANGEL, and baby have they internalized it. And politicized it.
I’m going down a supermarket aisle and up ahead a forty-ish female bends waaay over to ‘reach’ a bottom shelf item, craning her neck around to grin at me and revealing . . . oh! but the HORROR. The HORROR of it and no, I will not burden the readership here with more gory details. I’ve not been able fully to cleanse my mind of the image, and likely won’t ’til the Kingdom comes. It still . . . haunts me. Talk about Sexual Violence! :O)
What is far more frightening is these empowered princesses, of all ages, most certainly believe they’ve still Got It. It is no joke. Decades after It departed. Leaving nothing left, really, but to destroy masculinity and civilization because . . . Awesome Angel got old, ugly, and flabby. Despite the World telling her the opposite.
American society, $MeToo . . . none of it is in the least surprising. Nor accidental.
“They do like Anderson’s mother did ”
That bitch (her mom) stole that other bitch’s man……
[D: Ha!]
Perhaps this determination to be asked out by men, rather than pursuing, is because she also buys the feminist myth of the “intimidating woman?”
So, she may feel asserting interest in a man would intimidate him? I don’t know.
Twenty MILLION dollars from CBS to the ‘victims’ of $MeToo —
https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-news/leslie-moonves-resign-cbs-ceo-sexual-misconduct-721694/
Only the beginning of the Shakedown. Only the beginning. New targets are identified and hate-mobbed each ‘n every day, now.
Plus it’s a two-fer: strong-arm the corporations for ‘reparations’ for all the agony, abuse, and perpetration the poor American Female has undergone during the past four decades of feminism . . . AND destroy males and the Evil Patriarchy simultaneously.
It’s a beautiful world, it is! For my enemies.
I know your audience is primarily male, but it would be great to get this post out among churched young women who are fed the party line.
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She’s not going to be proactive (like her mom) because in today’s world (that this skank ho helped build) she would be on the hook for half (or the whole) meal.
She wants a free .. provided for .. shameless .. ride to easy street. And .. why hasn’t a (desireable, to her) man beat down her door?
She’d probably say no to make him work harder for her (false) high-ness. And then get upset when he moved on.
Anchorman
Perhaps this determination to be asked out by men, rather than pursuing, is because she also buys the feminist myth of the “intimidating woman?”
Could be, but a more likely explanation: having had a whole lot of attendance awards and participation trophies given to her just for being female, she now has an expectation for more of the same. Female only study groups, female only scholarships, Title IX, the list goes on. Girls are taught from birth that they are special. That definitely includes church girls.
I like the expression “clueless complaining squad”.
It really hits the mark.
I travel a lot. My observation is that most single western women really don’t understand how EASY it is to out compete the vast majority of modern western women out there.
First, most of them are overweight and invisible. Second, a good chunk of the remainder are working 50 hour weeks at an office, wear a perpetual or permanent “bitch face”, have their heads buried in WhatsApp chats and Instagram posts with earplugs in, and aren’t really engaged with the wider world of men around them. The only engagement opportunities for them are on the commute (train?, plane?) or in some coffee shop or restaurant. Or at some contrived afterwork event (club).
So even if one or more good looking cowboys do “just happen” along, how in the hell do such women even notice him, let alone send out indications of interest (IOI) that he will receive?
She can’t and she won’t.
Her default state pretty much broadcasts to all men in her vicinity: “Stay the fuck away from me, pervs!”
A woman who has a reasonable BMI, keeps her hair long, wears a dress, keeps her phone in her purse, smiles only 50% of the time and makes direct eye contact with other people (women and men) – is automatically well-positioned to capitalize, and just her default state blows the doors off of 80% of the women out there INCLUDING the “clueless complaining squad”.
I find it remarkably really sad that one would actually have to explain and convince women to not be such attitudinal, self-absorbed, autistic wage slaves with freon in their veins.
But I guess this is the sour, sexless, passionless swamp of a world feminism always rejoiced in creating.
…and for her to be able to become attracted to the kind of man she can attract for marriage.
Never fear, Boundless has fixed this for us too! Just ask your grandma and read Jane Austen.
https://www.boundless.org/blog/gentlemen-dont-finish-last/
They have been told repeatedly by Christian leaders that they are incredibly beautiful, and their moxie and girlpower makes them a catch.
Indeed. The church pastorbators go out of their way to extol the 4s and 5s in church as being ‘beautiful, beautiful, beautiful’ (three times).
This also reveals that the pastorbator, in addition to being a mangina, has a complete lack of genuine faith.
Dalrock, you’ve hinted at something I’ve been repeating since I heard it in meatspace with my own ears.
Young women (overall) DO NOT want to get married…they don’t pursue it, they don’t desire it, they don’t make it an active goal. It’s only when they are on their last 3 eggs does it pop up. Even when a guy like me who still would like to be married comes around…it doesn’t make them suddenly want to get married.
On the flip side 3 of my good male friends who all got married in their early 20s told me the same thing…their wives REALLY wanted to marry them.
Also possible…I never knew why women would break down in tears when they decided to end things. When I ended it…I moved on.
Well that’s just a lie…I never felt intimidated if a woman showed interest…I felt flattered and she ‘shockingly’ jumped to the front of the line in the realm of single women to see if something was possible there.
I don’t know if there is because from reading Scripture even God doesn’t work that way. Everyone God was involved with had to do their own share of work, and sometimes in risky situations, in order to acheive His will. It would be like me trying to drill a screw with a drill that doesn’t work. The instrument needs to do its job too.
I, for one, am not at all surprised that women would internalize this
I found a cartoon that may explain to women what men have to deal with them in a way women will easily understand.
God does work both ways. Sometimes he wants us to wait for Him to move and other times He wants us to do all we can in the effort. He is not always clear on which it is though, or at least we don’t always see it.
That said, a woman can do many things if she really wants to be married. Most don’t, except in theory, after they are done with whatever “fun” they have. Then they want the perfect match (fried ice) to be there. God requires more than that even when we wait for Him to move.
Every woman is an attention seeker .. and th wimminz are ATTENTION WHORES to the extreme .. period.
If they want to draw the attention of a man it’s not hard. But if those men see behavior that doesn’t indicate interest or red-flags they will stop pursuit immediately.
If these wimminz wanted to be married .. they’d be married. If they disn’t have red-flags men would be interested. They have both (re: no true interest in marriage and many red-flags).
They can pray AND they can cozy up to men they desire attention from. Neither are exclusive behaviors.
CONCLUSION .. Complaining is a form of attention whoring. Stop giving them the attention. Tell them they had their chance and they blew it (HEH)!
And then place them on ignore as you move onto the women whom desire a genuine Godly man’s attention.
I draw great pleasure in illumimating SUCCESS and FAILURE among the wimminz I know when discussing the women around me (e.g. the complainers).
SUMMARY .. Choices have Con-see-queen-cesses .. sux it candy azz wimminz.
Or tell them they never wanted to get married to begin with…hence why they blew it.
In short, modern church leaders and congregants are clueless.
As Anderson states, she wasn’t told the counter to secular culture, which shows how strong the message of secular culture is within the church.
I never had a daughter, but I would tell her something along the following:
”Your brother will have his own family one day. He needs to earn for that family, and keep earning for his wife and children. So his priority is his career. You will marry and have a family one day. They will be your first priority, followed by work, which supplements your husband’s earnings, if and when it suits.”
Or something to that effect.
Mind you, if she’s as smart as she says, why didn’t she figure it out? Why did the penny only drop at 30, when it’s far too late?
A good example of a woman who went the other way from Feminism:
https://russian-faith.com/family-values/quiet-life-quiet-wife-n1667
Why is it always at 29.9999999999 they finally see the light?
Down to their last 3 eggs.
Dalrock’s advice at the end of the OP, unfortunately, stands little chance of succeeding for one reason: it relies on a woman’s ability to connect cause with effect. We all know how modern women do at that.
If these wimminz wanted to be married .. they’d be married.
Indeed. However, that would mean having to make themselves marriagable. That, in turn, requires:
1. effort.
2. introspection.
3. placing the wants and needs of someone else above your own.
4. deferring gratification in the present in order to have a stable future.
5. assuning responsibilty – for yourself and your future family.
6. taking life-long commitments/vows to God seriously.
7. respecting a future husband in his God-given role – even when you don’t want to.
8. growing the f*** up.
Some women see the light, commit to these eight steps, and find themselves a husband. Most of the rest? See my comments on “cause and effect.”
feeriker ..
LOL .. hater (re: list) .. only wimminz can have lists .. and they are usually much longer .. bwhaaaaaa
Recently had an elderly family member die. Not one word at her funeral about her job or how much money she made in her life, her shopping trips, her casual hookups in foreign countries, her birth control or her abortions. Instead the funeral parlor was overflowing with her kids, grandkids, great grandkids, and all her nieces, nephews, cousins, numerous friends, well-wishers, neighbors, and all the people who loved her. For as long as I knew her she was such a happy woman, always surrounded by family and friends, never alone.
Dalrock,
I noticed Lori Alexander had a post using the same quote a day later.
https://thetransformedwife.com/womens-trajectory-toward-worldly-success-rather-than-being-a-wife-and-mother/
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. To imitate someone is to pay the person a genuine compliment …
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I’d file her advice under “necessary but likely not sufficient.”
As absurd and laughable as Lisa Anderson’ Dating Manifesto book may be to sane human beings, she WILL ultimately manage to hurt more women in the process, even if just a few. In today’s world, we can barely afford to damage even more women.
Think of how many toxic role models women have in the Western World today:
Entertainment:
*Kardashians
*The Bachelor/Bachelorette
*Teen Mom, glorifying single-motherhood
*Ghostbusters-type reboots with all Feminist cast
*SmartPhones that suck up their social skills, time, and attention
*Advice websites and magazines that teach whoring = female empowerment
*TV shows that promote and glorify hook-up culture, ghetto culture/thug life, etc
*Almost no TV show ever shows a family in church
Education:
*K-12 Feminist indoctrination “education”
*College radical professors pushing them into Antifa and outright violent Marxism
Music
*Miley Cyrus
*Lady GaGa
*Beyonce
*Rhianna
*Chris Brown (beats up women and gets millions of panties wet onTweeter)
*Ke$ha
*Actually, ALL rap music
Attention-whoring Apps and Apps for whoring:
*Tinder
*Grinder
*”Dating” websites (used now for hook-ups)
*FB
*Tweeter
*InstaGram
*Snapchat
*All of social media, really
Church/Fake Christians:
*Beta feminist pastors/priests
*Weak church members that refuse to condone female sin
*Pope Francis (a proud Communist)
*Writers like Sheila Gregoire, Lisa Anderson, Wendy Griffin….
I could go on and on…. But we all get the point.
There is hardly any safe harbor for women anymore. They are raised in this Marxist feminist entitlement-mindset crap 24/7 from birth, regardless of their parenting and upbringing.
It is so much, I actually feel kind of bad for women.
They are malleable objects, easily swayed and manipulated within their herds. In a way, modern women are victims of their own flawed natures and weak minds.
It sucks, but when you think of how much bad stuff is coming their way, it should be no surprise we are mass-producing the worst generation of feminist women, easily surpassing the rotten leftwing Boomers, by far.
The barrage of negative influences on women is too much for any family or man to create a “safe harbor” for their daughters or women.
OT, but of interest. Two more recent feminist-shriek-inducers from Lori Alexander:
https://thetransformedwife.com/women-in-the-workforce-have-hurt-mens-ability-to-provide-for-their-families/
https://thetransformedwife.com/men-prefer-attractive-wives/
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