Complementarianism is about bringing the “progress” of the culture wars into the conservative church while pretending to retain orthodoxy. Complementarians started with feminism, but many of the biggest names are now doing the same for the LGBT agenda. Much of the battle here is to overcome Christians’ feeling of disgust at homosexuality. Conservative Christians need to be taught what the rest of the culture has already accepted:
- Being disgusted by homosexuality is a grave sin and a sign of hateful bigotry.
- Gays are special people, and due to the virtue of diversity every organization must include gays and every person should demonstrate their lack of bigotry by having gay friends.
Pastor Matt Chandler does an outstanding job with both in his speech to Equip Austin, an event produced by the Southern Baptist Convention’s (SBC) Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission (ERLC) in 2015. For a partial transcript of the speech see “The Church Must Be a Place Where It’s Okay Not To Be Okay.” Matt Chandler on Homosexuality & the Church. Chandler explains that conservative Christians are hateful bigots who need to overcome their disgust of homosexuality (emphasis mine):
One of the things I’ve seen is that some people are very terrified of homosexuality. The accusation that Christians are homophobic actually is true about certain Christians I’ve been around. They are mortified of homosexuals; they are grossed out by [them]. And the gospel (really on any subject) reshapes us to a place of compassion, it reshapes us to a place of love, and it reshapes us back to an eager hope for reconciliation in all things.
Later in the speech Chandler explains that every Christian should have a gay friend (emphasis mine):
All of us are going to have gay friends, family or co-workers. That’s a giant umbrella. And listen I want to push that you should have someone in that umbrella in your life. If you’ve so withdrawn from these types of relationships then I think honestly when all’s said and done you’re not really helping in the relationship between what appears to be two warring factions although I would argue that we’re really not at war. There is a war going on, it’s not between us right.
There are some other bits in Chandler’s speech that will ring familiar to my readers. This speech is from 2015, and even then Chandler was laying the foundation for Allberry and Butterfield’s hospitality message that Christian families need to give gays access to our children:
Here’s how I want to encourage you. One, this is the place where genuine friendship and hospitality pays dividends. I have found that where I disagree with someone on theology, life and practice, those disagreements can remain and there be genuine friendship — if a relationship has been built. So come into my home. Sit at my table. Let’s hang out. Let’s go see this movie. Let’s go grab a drink. I’ve got a party at my house on labor day weekend. Come over to my house, bring your friends, and let’s just hang out, swim and barbecue…
Allberry and Butterfield argue that gays deserve access to our children because intimacy with our children is the reward Jesus promised them for following Him, to make up for the intimacy they are giving up by leaving the gay lifestyle. Back in 2015 Chandler laid the foundation for this as well. He says that gay Christians are special because by giving up the gay lifestyle they have given up more than the rest of us:
There’s no question that the invitation to come and follow Christ is the invitation to come and die (Dietrich Bonhoeffer). And yet there are some crosses that are heavier than others. Scott Sauls (a pastor in Nashville) one time talked about having this yearning for companionship while fighting for sexual purity as a single man. It was difficult, but should never be compared with those who earnestly desire that kind of companionship and sexual companionship for whom that’s simply not coming in this lifetime.
This is subtle because it twists the idea of repentance. Instead of Christians being grateful to God for being delivered from sin (something awful), the idea is that non gay Christians should be grateful to gay Christians for giving up their life of sin (something of great value).
It’s gay to suggest everyone should have a gay friend. Friends are friends…..you become friends with someone for what they add to your life and what you can add to theirs, not to fill some sort of social economic quota.
Is it me, or are most Christians (no matter if they are evangelical Christians or priests in the Roman Catholic Church) nowadays just plain nuts?
Let’s overthrow heaven and earth so no one has to feel weird about butt sex!
It’s the Christian way!
This is repulsive. What next? Chill with rapists and murderers? After all, sin is sin, right?
Chandler can’t handle scripture. He loves gays because he is probably one himself.
This is really depressing. The West is doomed.
The fact that comments are disabled on that video says that they know what the proper reaction to sodomy happens to be.
Reprobate minds everywhere
@AR10308, BINGO!!!
What is happening is clear to anyone willing to see it. The globalist totalitarians are mainstreaming evil into every institution and individual it can. This is specifically designed to weaken and confuse us morally and, in the end, not even know (or care about) the difference between good and evil. Naturally, the delivery mechanism of this poison will vary depending on the audience. In the church, they are now pushing the sodomites (a big part of “LGBTQ”) into the institutions. Elsewhere in the culture, where “LGBTQ” has been nominally accepted/tolerated, they are pushing the “T” part of it and in some areas the full LGBTQP+, which is the acronym that should always be used (P = pedophilia, + is everything else including beastiality, ritual human sacrifices to Satan, etc.). And the sickness, evil, and perversions may not even end there.
Accept the sodomites, then accept the trannies, then accept the pedophiles, then put the horned goat head alters up in your “church” for the ritualistic killing of babies. Some will think this is way over the top. But is it? Recall that none of what I have written is new.
Where will Christians draw the line?
Here’s a fun way to flip the script. When you see an essay like this, substitute “adultery” for “homosexuality” and “adulterous” for “gay”.
One of the things I’ve seen is that some people are very terrified of adultery. The accusation that Christians are adultephobic actually is true about certain Christians I’ve been around. They are mortified of adulterers; they are grossed out by [them]. And the gospel (really on any subject) reshapes us to a place of compassion, it reshapes us to a place of love, and it reshapes us back to an eager hope for reconciliation in all things.
Unarguably true; we should treat an unrepentant adulterer with compassion. That does not mean we need to seek them out, invite them into our circle of friends, and pretend that their behavior is not harmful – to themselves and society.
Well now, I didn’t go collecting gay friends, but friends have “come out” as gay. But since most of my social life consists of being with family or church, we just don’t talk much. I’m going one way, they’re going another. They’re welcome to come to church with me if they like, but they may hear some things they won’t particularly relish.
There are certainly some. I have been encouraged by the quality of Priests that have been prepared by our local seminary recently. My observation is that if the Priest is gray he’s probably liberal, but fortunately those dudes will soon be retired and gone. The young Priests you’ll see in the prolife protests outside of planned parenthood.
Proudly Unaffiliated says:
December 10, 2018 at 9:27 am
What is happening is clear to anyone willing to see it. The globalist totalitarians are mainstreaming evil into every institution and individual it can. This is specifically designed to weaken and confuse us morally and, in the end, not even know (or care about) the difference between good and evil. Naturally, the delivery mechanism of this poison will vary depending on the audience. In the church, they are now pushing the sodomites (a big part of “LGBTQ”) into the institutions. Elsewhere in the culture, where “LGBTQ” has been nominally accepted/tolerated, they are pushing the “T” part of it and in some areas the full LGBTQP+, which is the acronym that should always be used (P = pedophilia, + is everything else including beastiality, ritual human sacrifices to Satan, etc.). And the sickness, evil, and perversions may not even end there.
Accept the sodomites, then accept the trannies, then accept the pedophiles, then put the horned goat head alters up in your “church” for the ritualistic killing of babies. Some will think this is way over the top. But is it? Recall that none of what I have written is new.
Where will Christians draw the line?
*********************************************************************
You hit the nail on the head.
Are these people friends, or merely acquaintances? I ask because I believe that we Americans use the word “friend” for people who are merely acquaintances, and who are not really our friends.
Also, I can’t say that anyone I know, friend or acquaintance, has ever come out of the so called closet.
Yes – every Christian should have a gay friend, just like every man should have female supervision.
For those who won’t, the endpoint is unbelief. History has shown this over and over.
Being that they are less than 2% of the population, they’re going to be very popular if every “Christian” is mandated to have a sodomite friend.
“I am astonished how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is not even a gospel. Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ.
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse! As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you embraced, let him be under a divine curse!”
You’ll notice that Chandler loves to tie “the gospel” to whatever social issue he is attempting to get believers to compromise on. To Chandler, “the gospel” reshapes us toward compassion and love. It “bids us to come into the light” not “shame us into darkness.” It even “covers our sin.” (And I thought it was Christ’s shed blood which atoned). Nor is he alone in softening the gospel. The “Gospel” Coalition exists to do this very thing. Any social issue that requires a spine and honest Christian witness becomes washed over by warm-sounding language and usage of the term “gospel” in novel ways in order to trick the undiscerning.
This is far different from how the gospel is described in Romans.
Chandler believes the lesson the gospel shows regarding serious sexual sin is to first condemn fellow believers for transgressing worldly standards (call them homophobes), and then second to brag about your friendship with a homosexual while divulging that you apologized for the alleged sins of those of those bad homophobe Christians.
In contrast, The Apostle Paul wrote Romans 1:26-27, and tied in God’s wrath as the due penalty for homosexual behavior. Throughout Romans, Paul covers the righteousness of God and the need for faith in Jesus on the part of the believers (so that we may inherit His righteousness). In the first chapter alone, Paul uses “faith” 6 times and a form of “(un)righteousness” 8 times. These words are completely absent from Chandler’s excerpts. I mean this. In the 1,500 words Chandler spoke while allegedly talking about the gospel, he used the term “righteousness” and “faith” exactly zero times.
Everyone should have a friend who loves Wagner but most people shun Wagner-ites because they fear and rightly that given a moments inattention they will find themselves being subjected to a complete recording of the entire Ring Cycle (all sixteen hours of it). What I hear so frequently is ‘I have no objection against Wagne-ites – as long as they don’t bring their ghetto-blaster with them’ which is when you think of it pretty Wagner-phobic or ‘I have no objection against Wagner-ites, the more Wagner-ites there are the more some female might prefer me’ – which is wishful thinking on stilts.
Even my Bank Manager (who sacked me) concluded that it was ‘a difficult subject’. No one who is a true believer would ever say that about something they really approved of rather than when being forced for the sake of keeping their job to spout such nonsense.
Frank: One is an old acquaintance (elementary school), one was my college roommate and good friend at that time. (She spent most of college having crushes on various male professors–make of that what you will.) Both are long-distance.
Gays, not Jesus, are the mediators to the one true God. Isn’t that the message of the award winning play “Angels in America”?
In the 1,500 words Chandler spoke while allegedly talking about the gospel, he used the term “righteousness” and “faith” exactly zero times.
This is incredible.
It’s a christian cargo cult, using the word gospel without the meaning. There is a similar pastor on twitter which occasionally punctuates his vacuous statements with the word “Selah.” It’s like you can sprinkle religious words over whatever you want and Boom! now my opinion has always been part of the church.
I sense Heresy.
That’s all that need be said to Chandler.
It seems that Chandler has been defeated by the phenomena of nature. He is unable to defeat external forces and exercise decisions of conscience. And when there is a conflict, his decisions are based on eisegesis to support his ideas. Thus, he continually needs to re-interpret or explain scripture to show there is no conflict between scripture and nature.
@Damn Crackers
A form of this is already coming from the more radical gay complementarian elements.
This isn’t mainstream yet, but the more conservative complementarians are laying the foundation for it. As Chandler explains, they have to ease conservatives into the new worldview.
Another example is Gregory Coles. As the blogger Thirty Pieces of Silver notes, Coles wrote this in a book endorsed by D.A. Carson (president of The Gospel Coalition):
Here is D.A. Carson’s endorsement of the book:
From that Chandler interview:
So Don and I started this friendship with one another. And it became clear to me over time that Don had been significantly wounded by Christians. Not made-up, make-believe wounds. Horrific things had been said to Don in the name of Jesus Christ. And before we could get anywhere in a discussion of the person and work of Christ, I needed to seek his forgiveness for things Christians had said to him. That’s where Don and my relationship started. It started with me asking for forgiveness for really dumb things Christians have said to him over the years. Not just dumb in that they weren’t true (there was some of that). Dumb in that the tone and context of the discussion was foolish.
According to Chandler we cannot bring homosexual people to the church without first going to them and asking forgiveness for all the things Christians have said to them over the years. He is setting an example here. The first step to bringing homosexual people into the church is NOT homosexuals asking God for forgiveness, but is Christians asking homosexuals for forgiveness.
@Dalrock:
I’m unclear on something you’ve written here and I need your help understanding what message you’re sending.
You wrote:
This is subtle because it twists the idea of repentance. Instead of Christians being grateful to God for being delivered from sin (something awful), the idea is that non gay Christians should be grateful to gay Christians for giving up their life of sin (something of great value).
Christians should be grateful to God for being delivered from their sins, right? So a homosexual who doesn’t want to sin anymore and repents, and no longer engages in homosexual practices or lives as a homosexual, should be grateful to God for doing that work in his/her life.
Who are you asserting believes that being delivered from sin is “something awful”? Why is it “awful”?
Are you asserting that engaging in homosexual sex (the life of sin) is “something of great value” to homosexuals?
Is the idea here that it is a bad thing to tell gays “don’t live that lifestyle and don’t engage in homosexual practices because they are sinful” because we are telling them they can’t do something they want to do or even is in their nature to do?
I’m asking because I think this is the crux of the message and I’m not fully grasping it.
Most gay propaganda, including everything in this post, spins around the “born that way” axis. If they are 100% gay from birth then they would have this massive and unique struggle with chastity in the unlikely event that they are trying to attain it. If they are 100% gay from birth then they do deserve unique compassion because they can’t help it at all. But this is not the case. Nobody denies that you can have a propensity for same-sex attraction. But why were gay-identifying adults abused as children at a massively disproportionate rate? How much of an effect can endocrine disruptors have on sexuality? Why does the rate of homosexuality and the type of homosexual practice vary so much across time? Search around (probably on DuckDuckGo and not Google) for more references. I don’t have my “redpill” memes on this available.
Continuing on:
Isn’t this a bit like telling a promiscuous heterosexual man that, in order to live obediently to God, he must repent and stop fornicating with women? And that this is a good thing? Yes, it is difficult, and it means you have to stop doing something you want to do, even something that is in your nature to do. Sleeping around with a lot of women might even be “something of great value” to you, but you must still give it up and stop doing it, if you want to live obediently.
@TheDeti
I’m saying that sin is something awful, and being delivered from it is a gift.
This is what the complementarian gay activists are asserting. I’ll do a follow up post on this because it really is astounding how closely coordinated the message is.
Essentially the coordinated message coming out of ERLC is a modified version of the “love wins” message. Paraphrasing: “We took them away from their happy lives with their gay partners by calling them to Christ. We need to compensate them for this loss by giving them access to our children.”
You should also be encouraging your wives to cheat on you, by the way, because … reasons.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/men-should-give-wives-permission-infidelity-christmas/
And yet there are some crosses that are heavier than others.
This sets up the comparison.
Scott Sauls (a pastor in Nashville) one time talked about having this yearning for companionship while fighting for sexual purity as a single man.
Sex outside of marriage is impure and something to be fought against for single straight men.
It was difficult, but should never be compared with those who earnestly desire that kind of companionship and sexual companionship for whom that’s simply not coming in this lifetime.
Gay sex is a romantic, unreachable goal coming from an earnest desire for companionship and sexual companionship that will not be realized in this world. Their desires are otherworldly.
An alcoholic I know had a “happy life” closely associated with big bottles of vodka. He’s given that up, and goes to church sometimes. Should he expect a special communion cup filled with colored booze, just for him, to compensate for what he’s had to give up?
“Do not be deceived: bad company corrupts good morals.”
Now true, we should all understand living in the world and Christ’s own example of eating with tax collectors and sinners. But that’s very different than what Chandler is suggesting. We are very specifically warned against generically opening ourselves to poor influences.
This is why I predict that we are not far away (say, 2021) from seeing cuckservative pastors loudly and cartoonishly vocalize their support for ‘traditional marriage’ by demanding that men marry ‘women’ who are in fact MtF transgenders.
If the trans identifies as a ‘woman’, cuckservatives will go along with it, yet their zeal to pretend that they support marriage will lead to this perverse outcome. Even commenters here were hesitant to believe that this will happen, but I think it is inevitable merely on current trends, and may happen as soon as 2021.
Note that this is not mutually exclusive with what the bread and butter for cuckservative pastorbators will be, which is the normalization of cuckolding and paternity fraud. They will happily do both.
Novaseeker
You should also be encouraging your wives to cheat on you, by the way, because … reasons.
Remember when “gay marriage” was gonna be a good thing because then homosexual men would quit going to bathhouses and settle down to become ordinary, middle class couples? Not happening. Most homosexual “marriages” are rather open, and that includes the lesbians. They haven’t changed, but normal people are drifting towards the “gay” norm. The 3% minority is pulling the majority, not the other way around.
Chandler says he wants to bring as many homosexuals into churches as possible, in order to save them. But his actions are more in the direction of making homosexual promiscuity the new norm.
Words. Actions. Pick one.
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In a previous thread some commenters wondered or accused Chandler of being homosexual. I think we should not say that without stronger evidence.
Anyways, on YouTube there are hours and hours of proof that Matt Chandler is an effeminate man; behavior which–right alongside homosexuality–the author of 1 Cor. 6:9 calls unrighteous.
It looks to me, from this video, that his index finger is longer than his ring finger.
5 seconds in and this guy has the HUGE gayface.
Once the queers get in, they start bringing in all the queers, this is what Chandler is doing.
Then the culture of degeneracy and sexual abuse is SET (if your church isn’t already there).
Homosexuals have this perverse desire to DOMINATE and HUMILIATE their opponents.
Just watch those two factors at work in the churchian world. They will try to dominate you, all while humiliating you.
I ask because I believe that we Americans use the word “friend” for people who are merely acquaintances, and who are not really our friends.
Today, a “friend” is anyone you have a conversation with on a periodic basis.
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“One of the things I’ve seen is that some people are very terrified of homosexuality. The accusation that Christians are homophobic actually is true about certain Christians I’ve been around. They are mortified of homosexuals; they are grossed out by [them].”
Heh. It’s more than a little amusing to see Chandler make an issue out of this because it wasn’t too long ago that one of his brothers-in-arms at the Gospel Coalition was making the argument that Christian believers should emphasize how distasteful many found gay sex to be as a way of spreading the gospel:
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/thabiti-anyabwile/the-importance-of-your-gag-reflex-when-discussing-homosexuality-and-gay-marriage/
That’s from Thabiti Anyabwile, a Baptist like Chandler, from back in 2013. You might think that with Pastor Matt’s current sentiments on sodomy being what they are, he would find Mr. Anyabwile to be anathema. But that’s only because unlike you, Matt Chandler has the ability to reason like a true Progressive. Matt Chandler might not like Thabiti’s point of view on homosexuality, but thanks to the magic of “intersectionality” he can still make common cause with him when they both stand together in opposition to the evil white men who use evil white supremacy to elect the evil Donald Trump:
And he will also be happy to make sure that his congregation has no excuse for not getting the message as well:
Pastor Matt and the Village Church will always stand tall against the scourge of the straight white male. But judging by his association with Thabiti, I’d have to say that he’s willing to be charitable if you can only bring yourself to hate one out of those three.
The church should at least stop encouraging young women from going on missions to foreign countries. This gay thing is so far out there. Sometimes, some churches go way too far to breakdown natural inhibitions in order to serve God. Maybe I don’t want to say Hello to the stranger in the Service.
OT but relevant: https://thefederalist.com/2018/12/10/identity-politics-arent-necessary-see-republicans-need-recruit-women/
Basically: you had best support women in power, conservatives, because if you don’t, you’re gonna get even *worse* feminists than me!
Basically that’s the same sell as complementarianism: look, we need to accommodate these things, because if we don’t it’s all gonna go the way of the libby-libs. So get on board and become a “moderate feminist” (don’t worry, boys, we won’t make you use the name as long as you give us power *wink*).
Same thing, different contexts.
Feminism has overrun all of our institutions, all of them.
Actually that last video was wrongly placed.
This was the message that Chandler wanted to make sure his congregation received after much time spent with Thabiti:
This was the message that Chandler wanted to make sure his congregation received after much time spent with Thabiti:
So the guy is fully out in the open as a full-fledged SJW. Surprise, surprise [/sarc].
Isn’t it just a matter of tim[ing the Zeitgeist]e before he “comes out” on other issues too?
Chandler is so much more Godly than Paul.
Romans 1:26-27:
For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged the natural sexual relations for unnatural ones, and likewise the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed in their passions for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Isn’t it just a matter of tim[ing the Zeitgeist]e before he “comes out” on other issues too?
Hammer on nail.
feeriker,
So the guy is fully out in the open as a full-fledged SJW. Surprise, surprise [/sarc].
Note the complete lack of genuine faith exhibited by these pastorbators. That lack of genuine faith creates a fertile climate for SJW memes to take root.
Imagine just becoming or being friends with someone because they are friendly and neighborly toward you, or because they help you or genuine care about your well being.
Oh the horror of being indifferent of what they do in their own bedroom, with whom, with what frequency, or in what position!
I wonder, how healthy is it for men spiritually to become offended, disgusted, angry and obsessed about every “jot and tittle” over here, while we simultaneously fold our arms while allowing (and even encouraging) pervasive premarital sex, refusing to stone non-virgin women to try to marry, forgiving marital promiscuity, and ignoring blasphemy, the insolence of children and frivolous divorce. Let’s also to continue say nothing of Leviticus whenever these same corpulent, slobbering, God-fearing Christians are reliably found mowing down all of the bacon at the local Shoney’s every Sunday breakfast buffet,
So does God really care about these things?
“Well Golly, it says so right there in the Bible!!!!!!!”
Really, then just what the hell are you doing? Here. And here. And over there?
Christians love to throw stones at the sinners, but not before putting on a thick overcoat of hyprocrisy and strolling around in it.
Because even after 3,000 years, an Enlightenment and 4 industrial revolutions, hypocrisy never quite goes out of style now, does it?
I am now ready to believe that Matt Chandler is probably gay.
Anybody remember how Obama began his “progressive” acceptance of the gay lifestyle, until he came full frontal as a gay apologist, going from country to country to advocate for that perverted lifestyle, in the name of “equality”?
Larry Sinclair later dropped the bombshell that Obama is indeed gay.
They haven’t changed, but normal people are drifting towards the “gay” norm. The 3% minority is pulling the majority, not the other way around….
Exactly why God prescribed capital punishment for homosexuality. It is such a powerful and contaminating sin that it permanently stains whatever it touches. Only the blood of Jesus can wash the stench of homosexuality away.
He is flagged at a 95% on my gaydar.
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The video is unwatchable. His gesticulations are over the top and his strenuous efforts to justify an openly rebellious homosexual, and condemn those who were disgusted by the blatant rebellion of the sinner, is a dead giveaway that Chandler is an impostor. He is anything but concerned about the holiness of God.
Scripture did not mince words when it commanded God-lovers to hate evil in all its forms.
Feminists, pastors, the left… They call anything a true bible believing conservative finds disgusting a phobia.
I fear a charge by a grizzly. Do I have a phobia? No. I live in middle america, so it’s not likely to happen even if I go into grizzly country.
I fear being stabbed waling down the sidewalk at night. Do I have a phobia? No. Just like the example above, I am aware of my surroundings, know the risks, and I stay alert.
I am disgusted by open homosexuality. Do I have a phobia? No. I would rather be around people with similar interests. I don’t partake in their hobbies or hold interests that many of them hold. I neither fear them, nor do I have a phobia around them. If I am in their presence I am cordial, and conversational, but I do not imply an affinity toward having a friendship with them.
Start taking back the words they use and make them explain why they think someone like me is phobic of homosexuality.
@constrainedlocus
https://abcnews.go.com/US/bod4god-faith-based-weight-loss-plan-honor-god/story?id=16244990
Compare and contrast:
“Sadly, many people struggling with boundary-brokenness are called hurtful names by abusive Christians such as “THIEF!”. Too often, Christians are intolerant of thiefs, and prefer Old Testament Law such as “Thou shalt not steal”, rather than Gospel grace that we see in the New Testament (nevermind verses like Romans 13:9, of course)! We have to ask, how can we stamp out kleptophobia in our churches? These kleptophobic attitudes must end now.
Let’s start by showing compassion and empathy. It is very painful that any man should have to give up such an understandable desire such as the desire for possessing goods. We should feel sorry anyone who has to painfully deny their natural desire to steal, and try to compensate their lost revenue from all that piracy they would be out committing, by paying them financially, each one of us. After all, when you give something up, you’re entitled to something else in this world!
Everyone should have a friend who is a pirate, a pickpocket, a swindler or an embezzler. Too many Christians have been guilty of kleptophobia. In today’s world, we ought to be loving towards our stealing friends, and love them into the kingdom.”
Instead of Christians being grateful to God for being delivered from sin (something awful), the idea is that non gay Christians should be grateful to gay Christians for giving up their life of sin (something of great value).”
I think it’s probably worse than even this. What they really are saying is that Jesus is himself somehow benefited by the immense sacrifice (of their totally innocent true selves) gays are making for him.
I didn’t sacrifice my sin for Christ. That’s so backwards as to be undeniably Satanic. I repented and now hate my sin.
Make no mistake about what they’re saying here: you’re not washed clean of your sins by Christ’s blood; you’re making an offering of your “sins” to an unreasonably exacting God, in order to justify yourself, and Christians with less trendy, meaty sins just aren’t making as special a sacrifice. In fact, it’s questionable whether their sacrifices of mere fruit and vegetables even qualify them for a seat at the table.
When someone tries to tell me how Christians should behave, I reply that I don’t listen to athiests about how to follow Christ. A good day is when you make a satanist cry.
@Jeff
A phobia is an irrational fear and the proponents of Homosexual behaviour seek by adding the word phobia to Homo to suggest and indeed imply that ones fear is irrational or childish – but it is not. As Dave says it is a powerful and contaminating stain which destroys lives.
Churches already accept thieves. They support wives who frivorce their husbands after all as long as those wives claim “abuse” or something like that, though they rarely question them at all.
apart from the evilness of the argument, it is incredibly untealistic, and even lays an intolerable burden on gay christians.
Gays are 2 percent of the population. Repented Christian gays are probably a tiny minority of that, but let’s be generous and say 10 percent.
That means that 0.2 percent of the population is a gay repented christian. If the Christian population of America is something like 50 percent (nominally it is a lot more, but I dont know the statistics about church-going Christians), that would mean that every repented gay Christian would have to be friends with 250 christians, quite apart from any friendship he might have with non-christians.
No person has 250 friends, if they are very sociable they might have 250 more or less regular acquaintances.
Darwinian Arminian says: Pastor Matt and the Village Church will always stand tall against the scourge of the straight white male.
Because Matt Chandler is a Macho, Macho Man!
Wait! Is that Obama in the green?
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Fuck that guy!
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5 seconds in and this guy has the HUGE gayface.
He’s been married for 20 years and has several children. Don’t think that’s at all likely, though you see strange things from time to time.
What does strike you about him (and you see it again and again in the discourse of prominent pastors) is that he’s other-directed, influenced by the bearers of the kultursmog, frames and interprets the experience of his friend the way homosexual men will frame their experience (rather than providing critical distance), and is, in general, sort of repulsive and cloying. Any clergyman who uses the word ‘relationship’ over and over again is waving a flag telling you you’re in Oprahworld when you’re in his presence.
I strongly disagree for two reasons.
1) The guise for these types of pushes is to help them find Christ, but that almost never happens. America is a tribalized, Balkanized, and hyperpolarized society. No one’s minds get changed anymore about anything.
Besides, there is almost no chance a gay guy would want to be friends with a straight Christian guy anyway. And since you cannot, under penalty of being fired and subsequently possibly be sued, say anything about religion or Conservative politics at work, how are you even gonna engage some gay dude at your workplace, which is often how you meet people from “outside your usual group of friends”. 🙄 Whatcha gonna go, put an ad up for “gay friend wanted” on Grinder or Tinder? LOL 😀
2) People should have a group of friends that fit their lifestyle, mindset, and likely live in same regional area. “Having to” have someone pushed into a group that does not seem to fit makes things weird and eventually break up the group of friends.
Example: your group happens to be football fans, since you are a college football addict, you go to tailgate parties, and wear college football gear whenever you can. Would you want a guy who constantly complains about “how stupid football is” and how “Americans need to embrace soccer” and try to pull the group away from football and go watch soccer with him? Of course not!
This is the dumbest thing ever. 🙄
And worse, it is pernicious. It is Beta “Christians” pushing Social Progressivism/Social Justice into the Church even more.
Once “everything/every behavior should be accepted” within the church, what is even the point?
Ps. Matt Chandler may be a closeted gay dude himself, despite being married. Or maybe he is just an uber-Beta cuckservative wannabe. But then again, I am judging him on his mannerism… But for a Texan, this guy is so Beta, he gives off “that vibe”.
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My grandfather told me “you’re only as good as the company you keep” before he finally “kicked the bucket,” as he put it, at 101 years of age.
So I honor him by trying to keep excellent company. That precludes most, including those who willingly engage in homosexual behaviors. Sorry Chandler, you’ll have to find another sucker but that shouldn’t be a problem as there’s plenty of them around. I heard one is born every minute but it looks to me every second.
I wonder if he believes this applies to other sexual sins. Does he think that everyone should have an adulterous friend, for example?
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Reblogged this on A Life Un-Lived and commented:
Dalrock hits on something Christians appear to forget: Salvation is deliverance from sin, not sacrifice of sin.
One thing he didn’t emphasize and should have (since he has previously): Marriage isn’t for the elite, but some Christian pastors insist Christians are only permitted into elite marriages. The result of this error is more and more single, fornicating Christians.