I’m going to be taking a blogging break for about a week and will be disabling comments later this evening. In the meantime, I thought I would leave you with some baby mama drama:
The Daily Mail: Single mom, sorry!’: The ‘tip’ one woman left after enjoying a lavish $138 meal
But before you judge, a blogger from Mommyish is convinced this is a frame job. Don’t miss her thoughtful post: La La La, I Can’t Hear You: I Refuse To Believe A Single Mom Left This Crappy Tip
Rounding out the baby mama drama is the outrage over the I hate teen moms facebook page: ‘I Hate Teen Moms’ Facebook Page Under Fire
This last one is a bit unfair, because women who marry young (and stay married) and have children before they turn 20 shouldn’t be included with the mass of teenage unwed mothers who are the driving the backlash.
Edit: Bonus baby mama drama (H/T Mrs. Dalrock). Anonymous Mom: I’m Tired Of Feeling Grateful To My Husband For Marrying A Single Mom
Note: Comments are now set to all go to moderation. I’ll let them through in a week or so.
women do love the drama…
LOL, great line right here:
So, the new trend is to use one’s children as part of one’s mating strategy? *nice*
That last one just leads me to believe that single moms should be avoided like the plague(quarantined via shame). Not that there aren’t plenty of other reasons.
“MommyIsh“, as in “Kinda, sorta like a mommy”. Very appropriate. Perhaps they could link up with Gregoire’s “To Love, Honor and Vacuum”…it would be a very good match.
I found the word “mansplainin” used in a couple of articles. That’s a major tell of gynocentric, misandric, nastiness right there.
Note that the “great catch” appears to not have had a child with her wonderful husband. Perhaps there are biological reasons for this, or perhaps she just doesn’t see the need. If not biological, if it is a choice, I see a lack of commitment on her side of the arrangement. No surprise, there.
Just Damn! at that last article.
I guess that is the next iteration of female entitlement.
No longer will carousel riders be content to marry betas in their 30s with the intent to have children.
They’ll have children with the alphas instead of just fornicating with them, then they’ll demand that the betas they intend to marry will have to raise the alpha’s kids.
Justinian: exactly. The feminine imperative demands sperm to make babies and resources to raise them. Nothing requires these from the same man, and unleashed hypergamy prefers Alpha sperm and Beta resources. In past years this led to cuckolding of varying degrees.
You might say that the man who marries one of these entitled babymommas is pre-cuckolded. Especially in the case where babymomma refuses to have a child with Steady Eddy.
That Mommyish piece is absurd.
The woman who wrote it is extremely lucky, and worse, she knows it. She’s asking the readers to help facilitate her rationalization that she somehow naturally deserves to have something that most women in her exact position never get close to having.
I would think that being constantly reminded of how awesome your situation was would help you to appreciate it even more.
OT but I wanted to spread this around the sphere:
ihatemen.org
ihatemen.org/call-me-maybe
Again on the last article:
“Anonymous Mom: I’m Tired Of Feeling Grateful To My Husband For Marrying A Single Mom”
I read it again, and to me it looks like she might be soliciting hamster fodder from other female commenter to use herself when she divorces her second husband.
She stated in the letter that she left the child’s father.
I think she wants to leave her current husband, but she is worried that if she divorces the man who married her when she was a single mother she might get a tremendous amount of social flak.
She is feeling the water, and her husband who “manned-up” and married a heroic single mother is going to be in for a rude awakening.
Kenny, wow…that does need to be spread. I will post it. I encourage someone to start an “I Hate Women” site….the tagline could be “because equality a bitch”
Kenny – lolz, looks like there are a few men posting there as women, such as “Lisa”. Although posting fiction as a personal story should be done with more care, and finesse, in my opinion.
Justinian,
I had similar thoughts it was a sounding exercise.
And a sobering display of complete lack of empathy.
That last article makes me wonder if anything will make a Western woman think she’s lucky. It’s such a disturbing contrast with how appreciative orphans and abandoned children are when they get loving homes.
“…and I will be paying for my kids college by investing in Purina.”
Best comment from that last post. She should take this to heart and feel lucky for what she has. No? Of course not, she’s entitled to everything.
Please do not link to the IHM.org site. Let them earn link juice on their own. That evil site does not even show up in Quantcast. This means that it’s a low traffic site and their claim of 100k members is bs. I suspect “Kenny” is the proprietor of that cesspool. If you must refer to it, do not include the http or the www.
Here’s the whois registration data:
Domain Name:IHATEMEN.ORG
Created On:10-Nov-2006 21:05:14 UTC
Last Updated On:26-Oct-2012 13:24:20 UTC
Expiration Date:10-Nov-2013 21:05:14 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Domain.com, LLC (R1915-LROR)
..
Registrant Name:Roger Wehbe
Registrant Organization:Yooter InterActive Marketing, LLC
Registrant Street1:One South Second Street
Registrant City:Pottsville
Registrant State/Province:PA
Registrant Postal Code:17901
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.4242436291
Registrant FAX:+1.5706283887
Registrant Email:security@yooter.com
Yooter.com is a social media marketing outfit. Don’t do their work.
…i cant beleive i just read that. Guy is a saint and she is feeling out another carousel ride, her son be damned. Just goes to show kids are most important to women, right after their relationships and emotions…
That piece on Mommyish is something that men know instinctively that women never seem to understand. It is a grave insult to the vast majority of men to have to raise another man’s children. For a man to willingly take on a wife who already has a child by another man (unless that woman was widowed through no fault of her own) almost qualifies him for sainthood.
The writer of that piece is extremely lucky and she doesn’t even acknowledge that. Her and her son are not a “great catch”, no matter what she wants to believe. She should be thanking her lucky stars for that guy.
I married an unwed mother, we have been married over 37 years, and her daughter is the best thing that ever happened to me in my life.
Do not assume I intend to encourage anyone else to marry an unwed mother, or single/divorced mom of any kind. I counseled men over 10 years, an estimated 1,600+. I also observed men I knew. I never found another man whose step-children were anything but the worst thing that ever happened to him. (And, often the unwed mother wife wasn’t much better.)
While I well know the national divorce rate for men who adopted step kids is not 100%, I will say 100% of men that I knew personally who adopted step kids, ended up divorce and paying child support.
DON’T DO IT. At least not in the US.
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Yup. Even when everything is going swimmingly well, women have to find something to complain about. It is not enough having a good man to love you and your (not his) child. Now he has to be grateful for the opportunity as well. Talk about entitlement. God I can’t stand my own sex !
I was amazed at the single mom articles. What is it with these women? There is allegedly one single mom out there whose actions are semi-unseemly… and they think that this endangers the reputation of every single mom out there?
They don’t even throw out a NASMALT… they go right to claiming that this *must* be a fraud, because to single mom could possibly be like that. It makes me think that the myth and narrative of the “single mom” is at the same time both so powerful and so vulnerable that it absolutely must be defended, and even a single case of a single mom defying the myth needs to be attacked and discredited until it becomes stricken from the record.
Nope. We must celebrate single moms, and if there appears to be even one single mom out there not worth celebrating… well, we must cover it up… because it is not possible for a single mom to be anything but nurturing, caring, and worthy of the world’s fullest awe and respect.
Here’s another stunning article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2227011/BEL-MOONEY-My-prudish-husband-left-I-lied-sex-life.html
Men looking to marry virgins, be warned. Women will lie about it, rationalise it, and then post it online to elicit sympathy if you ever find out.
Bel Mooney misses the point by 100 miles — her only way to rationalise it is to make the guy seem like a jerk.
Note however how she misses the crucial part from the woman writing in:
He’s nice enough to still pay her bills? Seriously this guy sounds very decent and I feel sorry for him that he got duped by this girl. While the girl continues to argue along the lines of “this is unreasonable”, she’ll just push him further away.
The Anonymous Mom article made swing between fits of shock and tear-inducing laughter. The line that got me was:
Why is it that I need to feel grateful to a man for being a decent human being? For caring about a child that isn’t his biological son? What type of person wouldn’t watch this beautiful little boy grow up before their eyes and feel some love and affection? That’s not luck, it’s basic human instinct. Of course we love and protect the innocent.
See, this is vibrating hamsterbation as its finest.
First of all, the basic instinct of men is one of practicality. We do not generally want to handle other people’s problems unless we are directly asked. This is why men have such a respect for the concept of private property. I take care of mine and will leave you alone to take care of yours unless one of us needs assistance. Then I’m glad to be a neighbor.
Second of all, regardless of whether or not it is “human instinct” having an attitude of gratitude makes a human a far better person than one who claims entitlement. Radio talk show host Dennis Prager argues that the key for happiness and goodness in a society is gratitude.
This sense of entitlement is propped up by the lack of consequences for actions.
Only by abandoning women to their own ends will they begin to feel the pain of responsibility.
As a society we keep protecting women as spout “man up” to support their greed with ever more allocation of subservience and resources,the exact opposite of what nature would have.
There are *some* who would say “why don’t these men ‘game’ these ungrateful wenches into submission?”
Too much is never enough.Boycott.
Stupid men made her attitude for her.
I manned up and raised two boys from another man in order to save the life of my own son. It was the most valuable thing I have done with my life, and they are all good boys now. The older ones still take me out for father’s day (not their own dad)
My ex-wife, though, didn’t have any concern for those efforts when she sent me to jail for falling short on the $4500/month in alimony I was ordered to pay her. She didn’t factor in my sacrifices for them over the ten-year marriage, when she decided to wipe me out. They did not matter.
It grieves me that I would have to caution men to stay away from this sort of effort, because hypergamy be damned- I helped those young men.
Sometimes I wonder, when a single mom gets with a guy who is willing to take on the extra work (and her extra mileage) just to get to be with her…. if they stop right there and ask themselves how weak and pathetic and choiceless this dude must be to be willing to do all that. It’s like a major DLV to do something truly good-hearted and worthwhile. Hypergamy dooms the man that would accept her spawn.
Those boys of mine- all of them look at her and know what she did to me, and did to us, and know the outrageous frivolity of her irresponsible choice (not haaaapy) and how it harmed us all, and even herself.
They treat her decently, as I have always taught them, but they know what she really is.
My sister used to be a waitress and the only crummy thing done to her was by a woman who left a coffee cup upside down with a penny on it, which is an insult. I just can’t see a man doing that.
On the other hand, I can see a brother cutting the woman’s tires had he been there.
Ha…more evidence that you should never take on a woman that is a pre-cuckold. The first point is that she isn’t a virgin…the second point, everything else.
The gal that doesn’t like the accolades her husband gets…is mostly because she had to choose some guy that wasn’t her ideal. Face it ladies…having kids before marriage lowers the type of guy you can attract.
*no single mom could possibly be like that.
ROLF
The thread on mommyish got a invasion of posters from Dalrock, which offended the single mothers there.
The owner/moderator of mommyish posted a thread in response to the Dalrock invasion:
Hell Yes, Even Single Mothers Are ‘Entitled’ To Decent, Loving Husbands
Justinian, Dalrock’s posters were bringing it strong at the mommyish site. There’s a wacknut named Julie over there who’s hilarious to read.
@ siquaeris
“They don’t even throw out a NASMALT… they go right to claiming that this *must* be a fraud, because to single mom could possibly be like that. It makes me think that the myth and narrative of the “single mom” is at the same time both so powerful and so vulnerable that it absolutely must be defended, and even a single case of a single mom defying the myth needs to be attacked and discredited until it becomes stricken from the record.”
I see this alot when men are discussing their experiences with woman.
Woman will say that they can’t believe them and will site an experience of their own to counter it (therefore making the OP’s experience wrong because they’ve experience something different) or will tell the OP that his experience was simply based on his attitude.
“She didn’t do that, you THINK she did that because of your attitude during the situation”
———–
That single mother like alot of woman have been taught that they deserve the best and whatever faults they have are faults only in the eyes of people beneath them.
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Miserman wrote: “The Anonymous Mom article made swing between fits of shock and tear-inducing laughter. The line that got me was:
Why is it that I need to feel grateful to a man for being a decent human being? For caring about a child that isn’t his biological son? What type of person wouldn’t watch this beautiful little boy grow up before their eyes and feel some love and affection? That’s not luck, it’s basic human instinct. Of course we love and protect the innocent.”
——–
When these fine ladies “woman up” and start breastfeeding other women’s children, perhaps they’ll have a greater appreciation for men who “man up” and pay child support for other men’s children.
Such women would deserve no special gratitude if the child is cute; they should be grateful for an opportunity to watch the cute individual “grow up before their eyes and feel some love and affection.”
After all breastfeeding is a “basic human instinct” (for a person with functional breasts) and any caring woman (aka “a decent human being”) should “love and protect the innocent.” It’s only fair. It’s not luck; it’s duty.
Breastfeeding for a few months can’t be more difficult than supporting another man’s child for a decade or more. Let’s do it for the Marxist Feminist Collective. Please.
Lindsay Cross, the Mommyish author who wrote a follow-up, has world class issues of her own. She has a history of genius moves guaranteed to garner attention:
http://mommyish.com/childrearing/planning-your-kids-birthday-party-how-about-hooters-306/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2137444/Mommyish-blogger-Lindsay-Cross-sparks-hate-campaign-putting-make-daughter-4.html
Of course, she’s really surprised that she’s gotten the attention she craves. She’s asking for Divine intervention. From her Twitter: “I started a war with douchebag PUA-type trolls on the internet. Lord help me.”
Lindsay, first explain Hooters for Kids to the Lord.
Kieran:
Wow. That’s why I call it the Daily Fail.
The man was the honest, do-good spouse from day 1, and the writer has the nerve to suggest that HE doesn’t deserve HER? He did the right thing by divorcing her, but if I were him, I wouldn’t have married her in the first place.
This last link on the single mom who’s tired of being told she should be grateful is yet another example of the entitlement mentality women have. That mentality has always been there; it’s just now more socially acceptable for women to be out in the open and honest about it.
I used to think women were grateful for their men because they had a man and because of who their men were. I don’t think that anymore. Most women, I believe, think much more about how their husbands are useful to them and beneficial to them, not how women can be supportive of their husbands. It’s becoming more and more apparent that for many women, a husband is a utility, an accessory, a prop, to be used; not a companion to be enjoyed.
Hamsterlicious reading.
“There’s no reason a woman needs a man to have a baby.”
Haha!
Nope,it just pays better if you marry then divorce.
Someone should man up and game these nutters into the submission of sanity?
See how preposterous that statement is?
Boycott
So much fun. So much evidence that my article on DGM-2 some years ago explaining my belief that American women are COLLECTIVELY insane, was correct. I refer to the two linked articles.
One article demanding respect as a basic human right for women who have not been respectable in their conduct.
The other article berating a man who was lied to for forty years, because, well, after all, a dearie wanted to marry him though she clearly knew she was not qualified. And, he only found out after 40 years because she assumed she need keep it a secret ONLY from him. Had she kept her lie a secret from her dearie friends, her marriage would still be going on as always.
So, not only did he find out she had lied to him for forty years, but apparently found out that many of her friends KNEW ALL THE TIME that he was lied to. Yeah, there are men who don’t handle that sort of humiliation – and it was humiliation – very well. Note the insane advice giver did not mention that aspect of the case.
I am going to repeat what I have tried to say in the past.
Women in the US are collectively insane, not from chemical issues, but simply because they cannot grasp reality. Why? Because they have never heard reality expressed.
Because since the middle Sixties, with our legal system being turned upside down, it has been solely to suit dearie voters. They have demanded every possible transfer of assets from men to women, and every possible protection, even against their own bad decisions and bad conduct.
And, for that nearly 50 years, men have not been allowed to participate in any meaningful way in the debate to make those societal changes. Any attempt to enter the debate on major issues which directly affect men has resulted in total vicious attacks, ala Larry Summers, until they shut up or are unemployed, or in jail or dead.
And, over that nearly 50 years, our society and its laws have become less and less tolerable to men of any self-respect. Yet, since women have mostly only talked to other women, it all seems right to them.
Giving an adulterous wife, the kids; the house; the car; half of all property; alimony for life; child support; and no visitation for the innocent father, seems totally logical to most women. Why should any woman lose anything just because she was a low-life faithless ho’? To self-respecting men it is 100% insane.
Trust me, living in Mexico as I have done for some years now, one learns we tend to be products of our culture. Culture for nearly 50 years in the US has been women can do anything they want, with near impunity, including kill their unborn babies and shoot their husbands in the back with shotguns. And, their dearie culture says, “You go, grrrl!”
So, yes, of course, when a dearie gets a taste of what men really think, her conclusion is the men are nuts; stupid; or just plain jerks. The truth is much of what has been done to men for the last 45+ years is just plain evil.
And, the women who react with horror when they do finally hear what men really think, ain’t seen nothin’ yet!
Meow
Here is the backlash from a contributor from the mommyish site that references the third article brought up about single mothers and entitlement.
And I quote, “This post could be ten pages long, trying to shout down assholes who are angry that women won’t accept their misogynistic outlook on life. Who knows if it would do me any good.
The thing that all of those people are missing is that women deserve men who are caring, kind and respectful. And men deserve women who are the same. I’m not saying that every female should be treated like a princess by a doting man who will do anything she asks. I’m saying that in a relationship, both sides need to put energy and effort in. Both partners need to be loving and willing to work hard. That doesn’t change because someone has a child. It doesn’t change depending on gender. Good relationships need two people who both feel equally lucky, equally blessed, and equally deserving.”
http://mommyish.com/stuff/single-mothers-entitled-393/3/
Bleh…
“my son and I have always been an amazing catch”!?
Um…sorry. You don’t get to dictate what something is worth. Buyers do that. The marketplace does that–or, in this case, the sexual market value (SMV) does that. Here’s an experiment lady: put your $200,000 house on the market for $300,000. Tell us what lessons you learn.
Here is an interesting article about whiny women.
God you are all dense. You really don’t get it. I am a single mom by choice and I don’t care if I get married or not. There are many men out there who are single with or without kids who may or may not want to get married. You are all basing your responses under the notion that every woman or man wants to get married, including those with kids. Should a man with kids who went through a divorce be grateful that someone marries him. I dated a man years ago with two kids who was divorced. Baby mama drama, visitations, baggage.. Ugh! Look we all come with stuff. Sounds like this woman raised a son who was open and receptive to the stepfather. Sounds like she did a good job raising the son. Men benefit from marriage, maybe moreso than men. Instead of using words like ‘grateful ‘ how about happy? This idea that women over thirty who are not virgins and who have kids are damaged goods is b.s. my great grandparents had blended families due to remastoage because their spouses died fro the Spanish flu. Look shit happens and life is imperfect for all of us, men, women, parents whatever. Get over it
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Regarding the Mommyish piece:
Presumably it was her husband who proposed to her knowing full well what the situation was. And presumably, he found enough value in her (and her son!) to commit himself to them both, not begrudgingly, but wholeheartedly.
That being said, his proposal and exchange of vows should have been the end of anyone else’s speculation about the “worth” this woman has as a wife. The only person that question is relevant to is the man whose wife she is–and he’s already deemed her to be a catch for him and her son as someone worth investing himself in, *regardless* of whether he is his biologically. So everyone else coming behind her *husband* telling her that she’s really less-than, when her *husband* has already said otherwise, need to hush. There may be many who simply don’t like the fact that she as a single mother captured such a good man and so continually try to take her down a peg.
As she said, he sounds like a man of upstanding character and not a weak “beta” as so many of the comment on the article implied.
So, this is a open ended question only slightly related to the above set of articles and is intended more for Dalrock; what is the proper response for a Christ-following man in response to the current male/female environment? I think Christ teaches that the expectation is one of purity outside of marriage so I’m not planning on shagging my way though what is left of my 20’s but I also agree with you that I still need Game, especially after I marry. How do learn Game without making sleeping with the woman part of the experience? Can I or even should I date women with no expectation of sex without transforming into a Beta? This is the heart of the issue. I can’t meet or marry a high quality woman without Game but I can’t learn Game without, at least what it seems to me, leading on a lot of lower quality women and tricking them into thinking I desire them when I don’t. Do I date them with just the right about of Game to make them want to sleep with me and then dump them ? Do I just wait for one that meets the criteria of a Godly woman (especially when it comes to submissiveness) and then roll the dice that I’ll learn Game on the fly? Do I just go on a lot of short, non-emotionally invested dates? Practice Game in group settings without dating? I agree that the goal is marriage to the right women and that Game doesn’t stop at marriage (just cause I put the ring on her doesn’t mean I need to stop being the leader in the relationship) but what is a Godly outlet for learning Game before marriage without becoming a manipulative jerk about it?
My experience with women being reminded that they should be greatful by lots of friends, family and co-workers is that these prople are already observing her poor treatment of that saint of a man and trying to warn / shame her into acting right.
Sad thing is that if she doesn’t listen to them she will not only burn that saint of a man but those friends will loose respect for her also. Only other hypergamous females will help feed her hamster, thus debasing her further.
The best case scenario is that the guy is also listening to those friends and he divorces her, she is well on the way to leaving him.
So Kirstie Alley is on the Jimmy Kimmel show right now (Thursday night), and she just told a “funny” childhood story about how she would FORCE her infant brother to show his penis to her female friends and she would charge her friends 15 cents to see it. Of course the crowd was laughing.
Kirstie Alley: “I was my brother’s pimp.”
@Dalrock
bskillet of the Christian Men’s Defense Network wrote an excellent article on Obama’s winning of the “slut vote,” which went viral and provoked amazing invective and gnashing of teeth. His blog had only light traffic before, and he has now taken it off line and apparently vanished. If you have any way to contact him, I urge you to offer moral support and advice in dealing with the sudden publicity. He’s an excellent writer and it would be a great loss if he was intimidated into silence by this incident instead of seizing the opportunity to gain a greater audience
“They’ll have children with the alphas instead”
This surprises you? Heck, when I was younger my primary targets were older, married women, all craving a kid. Hubby wasn’t producing, so after a couple of month of bare-back, they start looking for someone that could plant one or more in them – or enjoyed trying over and over again. Most of my high-school, and early college days were spent with married women when their husbands were at work. More than a few enjoyed talking to hubby in the phone while getting one banged out into them. One of them justified it by saying, “it was like he was involved in the conception”. Somehow I doubt he would have seen it that way – but I didn’t care, I was getting what I wanted – lots of unfettered sex, with zero responsibility – other than cumming whenever they went out “shopping” and were able to stop by and see me for an hour or so. (This was prior to cell-phones, but I was a student so my schedule was fairly predictable.)
From a young guy’s perspective they were perfect women. They didn’t want me to take them to dinner, didn’t want to spend the night, and didn’t want anything more than sex. Of course, the flip side to this is, if you do not have a DNA test on any child you THINK is yours, you are an idiot and deserve what you get.
Sort of an off comment, but despite her wisdom you are yet to add The Woman & The Dragon to your blogroll. Might I inquire as to why?
What is dense Lori, is the fact that someone somewhere is going to be forced to help you raise that child “on your own”, and the notion that you can do it on your own. You can’t. The fact that we have a welfare state and social support wherein single mothers are allowed to leech off of our institutions doesn’t mean that the system is either just OR perpetual. It in fact is neither. So after you get done Cloward and Pivening the society that is allowing this nonsense to continue (for now), try to realize that you a short-sighted twit.
Men die to give men the vote
Women imprison men to give women the vote …
Men goto work to feed their children
What do women do?
Women divorce men, imprison men, demand welfare to feed their sex n the city lifestyles … & then maybe their children
Women exploiting first world society in cloaks of plausible deniability any chance they get … one beta male chump at a time …
Btw I posted the above in agreeance with Anon 70’s excellent post …
@Lori
You like most women seem to be under the impression we’re talking about women who’s husbands died from the spanish flu …
We’re not talking about widows
SINGLE MOTHERS ARE NOT IN THE SAME POSITION AS WIDOWS
Single mothers are harlots raising children out of wedlock
Single mothers are potential child abusers, who deliberately put their children at risk as a sexually promiscous woman CANNOT BE MATERNAL to her children
Not to mention the criminal act of deliberately depriving their children of a STABLE biological family
All children deserve & need a REAL BIOLOGICAL family, as nature intended for CENTURIES of evolution
A harlot raising a child out wedlock is not a mother … she is a criminal
Who inflicts ridiculous amounts of damage on her children & should be treated accordingly
GeeBee:
Let me take a stab at your november 7 comment.
1. Your default position on marriage should be “I’m not getting married”. Any woman looking to be your wife will have to overcome that rebuttable presumption of no marriage.
2. Make a woman prove herself worthy. You should ask yourself about every woman you want to date or who wants to date you: “why should I invest time, money and resources in this woman? Why is she worthy of my time, money and resources? What does she have to offer me?”
3. Review Dalrock’s posts on the subject.
a. review Dalrock’s posts on “interviewing a Prospective Wife”. Start here:
https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2010/07/09/interviewing-a-perspective-wife-part-i-should-you-open-a-position/
b. Review Dalrock’s posts under his category link “Finding a spouse” on this site.
c. Do the things suggested only with a girl you have been dating for a while and whom you think might be a wife candidate.
4. Maintain dominant frame. You can do this without escalating hard and heavy to P in V sex like a player would. Insist on directing the course of the relationship. Show dominance through deciding where you go and what you do on dates, not seeing her all the time, not spending all your time with her, and insisting on having your own time for yourself. You will get pushback, known as “shit tests” or fitness tests. These are designed to test your mettle as a man, to see if you can stand up to her. She does this without knowing it, because if you cannot stand up to her, how can you stand up FOR her?
5. Don’t get oneitis — the feeling that the woman is your ONE, that you will never ever get another woman. Never be afraid to walk away if the woman disrespects you or for whatever reason, the relationship is just not working or does not serve your interests. Oneitis is very debilitating. The best thing to do with this about a woman you really care about is to remember to keep her off the pedestal. Remember that she is not perfect. She is not the only woman out there. She has faults and flaws. And — this seems cold and harsh — if worse comes to worse, she can be replaced.
Lori:
Your comment essentially boils down to:
“I can do and be whatever I want. You can’t judge me for my stupid decisions.”
Any divorced woman with children or a woman with bastard children who wants to get married and who finds a man willing to take on her baggage should be down on her knees thanking God every day that she found any man willing to marry her.
(BTW, let’s return to differentiating among “single moms”, shall we? There are widowed mothers who deserve our respect and sympathy. Then there are divorced moms and frivorced moms. And then there are baby mamas with bastards.)
The author of the OP doesn’t like others saying she should be grateful because she doesn’t want to be reminded of her mistakes and doesn’t want to be judged. She doesn’t want to be assessed and evaluated, and determinations made that her decisions or conduct or judgment was “wrong” or “detrimental” or “erroneous” or even “stupid”.
“She doesn’t want to be assessed and evaluated, and determinations made that her decisions or conduct or judgment was “wrong” or “detrimental” or “erroneous” or even “stupid”.”
It’s a damn shame her story got told here then…
I hear in Lori’s rely the idea that basically we’ve messed up marriage beyond repair, so let’s accept the mess and make the most of it. Women like Lori seem to prefer the mess of blended families from divorce and single parenthood instead of an orderly institution resulting in lifelong marriage and progeny. Perhaps it is because the mess creates endless emotional and empowerment fields ripe for harvesting. In the chaos they have the freedom to justify whatever choice they make and have it backed up by law. An orderly institution would limit their choices and their power and deprive them of the constant emotional stimulation they crave. Baby mama drama is the ultimate narcotic.
The manosphere is spreading into places far and wide. Check this out at a car site:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/04/hype-and-hypertrophy-how-lamborghini-lost-its-man-card/
deti:
My response to your points as follows:
1. In agreement with you. Now if only my family respected this, I would be getting somewhere. Yet the catch with this is that I’m no longer pursuing. It means I’m the one being pursued. Sounds great in theory but based on the number of single women in their 30’s in the church, it means that I’ll be lonely for some time to come. I say this from the mindset of “I date with the aim to marry”. While you might disagree with this mindset, note my response to your 4th point.
2. A very different frame/mindset than normal but not too hard to change to. I can make this happen.
3. Done and done.
4. Here is where the rubber meets the road; how do I learn to maintain the dominate frame when I’m not really dating? I guess the advice is to date more but then I’ll just be going around dating and dumping a lot of women I find undesirable. While this has always been the case, why would I knowingly date women I found undesirable? I wouldn’t. Since I’m only planning on dating desirable women, now I have to “learn on the job” how to maintain a dominate frame. Not easy. So does that mean I date undesirable (by me) women, just to learn how to maintain the dominate frame? Does that seem right? Then I’d become just as emotionally manipulative as any women out there. Jesus “maintained the frame/was the Alpha” without having to manipulate. How do I learn to do this without A: a large investment of emotional and physical capital and B: without becoming a self-centered jerk, one focused on learning as much as I can from woman and not on the woman herself?
5. Yes … but. When I marry, then she is/becomes the one? What I mean is, as long as I’m dating/engaged then this avoidance of “oneitis” is fine. I’m proud of a couple of my friends for making the decision not to marry at the last possible moment because the flaws became glaringly clear. It’s once you marry, then what? I guess the answer is not to place her on a pedestal after marriage but the idea that I can walk away from her at any time ends with the wedding vows.
Gee:
Man, I’d like to be in your shoes. My life would have been quite different.
We all need to jettison this idea that you need to date for a year or two or three to figure out whether this girl is OK to marry. If a man is doing it right, he should know in a couple of months if she is marriage material. if he is with her 2 or 3 months and she’s not marriage material, end it.
Dominant frame isn’t just with dating, it’s with life. It’s having yourself together. It’s having control over your job and finances, not letting them control you. It’s not putting up with flaking and other misbehavior from women. I know a l ot of men dating now who just don’t tolerate flaking at all. She flakes, number is deleted and they never call her again. Your mindset should be one of abundance. If this one doesn’t work out, another one might. there are lots of girls on the girl tree. She can be replaced. It pains me to say this but I’ve even taken this position with my wife. Mrs. deti knows if she commits adultery, she’s gone. Mrs. deti knows I won’t tolerate disrespect. Lack of respect and submission from her will result in a concomitant lack of investment and commitment from me.
@GeeBee
Hawaiian Libertarian has a great post about using game in everyday life:
Given the constraints which you correctly describe, this is your best option to practice game. While the drawback is that you won’t have some of the insight and confidence which comes from sexual success with women, following the moral path has its own advantages. You can engage in playful banter without the fear of rejection, because you can’t really be rejected if you aren’t pursuing something sexual. If you are doing this right it will become second nature, and fun for you and enjoyable for the women you are interacting with. Obviously you need to dial this in based on the setting and the woman in question.
Part of what you most need to learn is how to recognize when a woman is responding to you with attraction. Women can fake this to a degree, but once you learn to recognize the real thing you will generally develop a sense for when this is off. Some of the danger here for you will also come from the other direction. Part of what you are going to learn is that women aren’t the reserved sexless creatures you have been taught all of your life. If you practice the kind of banter and frame that HL describes frequently enough you are going to find “nice” women expressing interest in sex. Some of these expressions of interest are going to be subtle, others are not. Just be prepared to recognize when this is occurring and be ready to hold to your own moral line. There are two crucial lessons you will take away from this:
1) How to know if the woman you ultimately plan on marrying has truly fallen for you. I’ve covered this in multiple posts, but be advised that there are large numbers of Christian women out there who are looking to snag a beta provider whom they aren’t attracted to. This is a prescription for misery which you need to be extremely vigilant about. You should read up on Indications of Interest (IOIs) in game, but part of this will have to come from your own more subtle experience.
2) Not to pedastalize women the way the church is teaching you and all other men. Very large numbers of women, including Christian women have gone feral. They are good at hiding this to the untrained eye, but once you accept the reality that the majority of “good girls” surrounding you are surprisingly open to sex with a man who pushes her attraction triggers, you can internalize the reality here. Women aren’t more moral or more commitment oriented, and even if you understand this intellectually you still need to feel it in your gut*.
What you are looking for in a wife is chastity and a search for true commitment. Deti linked to the interviewing a prospective wive post. I would also point out my recent post on “the one” vs “my one and only”. At the end, what you are looking for is a woman who is actually seeking the biblical role of wife and who demonstrates the ability to follow through. Most women you encounter will be looking for something different, and won’t even know this themselves because they think state sanctioned serial monogamy is biblical marriage. See the women of Christian forums for just one example.
Practicing game socially without dating is also a way you can generate the kind of pre selection which will make you attractive to other women. When I met my wife I had followed what HL describes with the women in our mutual workplace. As a result, when my wife asked a coworker “Who is that?” and pointed me out, the response was a jealous “He’s out of your league”.
*You will know you have completed the process when you have moved from shock, to revulsion, to ultimately accepting reality. In this last stage you will find you can finally appreciate women in a way you couldn’t before. You won’t want to fall in love with or marry a slut, but you will find that you can like them on their own terms.
Deti
(BTW, let’s return to differentiating among “single moms”, shall we? There are widowed mothers who deserve our respect and sympathy. Then there are divorced moms and frivorced moms. And then there are baby mamas with bastards.)
Here I am, right on cue, with another example of how the rot has gone in US churches.
Was in a church just last month where the deacons announced they would be winterizing homes for members of the church who needed help. “Widows and the elderly” was the group, however during coffee -chat time after church, I asked about the known unmarried women with children.
“Yeah, we treat them like the widows and the never married women”. So you take care of the retired nurse who lived with her older sister until the sister died, you take care of the older woman whose husband died last year, and you take care of the fat, 30-something headstrong woman who is raising her “choice child” on her own, all the same?
Why? No answer. I got goggled at, as if I’d asked “why take care of the poor?”. As if a bereaved 70-something woman whose husband died is all same-same as a 30-something former barfly. Nobody could answer the question, apparently because nobody understood it. Somehow, the death of an older man and the oopsy pregnancy of a slut near the wall are both Acts of God, that’s the impression I have. So no one even grasped the question.
Might not get invited back to visit that church again…
Absolutely +1 on Dalrock’s comment above. There are four states of knowing to any set of skills:
1. Unconscious incompetence – I don’t know and I don’t know that I don’t know. This is where the majority of men are with regard to management of women. But there could be a vague feeling of unease, of not knowing something important, yet one can’t put a finger on it. “Something’s wrong, but I don’t know what”, is a kind of borderline between this and the next stage.
2. Conscious incompetence: I don’t know, and I know that I don’t know. I dunno how to do open heart surgery, for example, and I’m very sure that I do not know. Other men are here: “I don’t know how to deal with my bitchy wife, and I sure wish I did”, for example, or “I don’t know how that short, ordinary looking man pulls those women, but it could be learnable”, or “I don’t understand why that older guy in my church never gets any static in public from his wife, when the rest of us get it all the time, what does he know that I don’t know?”, and so forth.
3. Conscious competence: This is “fake it till you make it” territory. Think back to any of several skills – learning to ride a bicycle, learning to drive a motor vehicle, learning to cook a multi-dish meal so that everything is done at the same time, learning how to take notes in class but still think about the material, learning to shoot a pistol quickly and accurately, and so forth. There is an awkward phase where one has to concentrate mightily on all sorts of tiny, even miniscule, details – did I set all the rear-view mirrors before I started driving, is the seat close enough to the wheel but not too close, am I paying attention to all the cars around me, did I check in the rear view mirror before changing lanes – oh, dang, I didn’t signal the lane change! – is that flashing light ahead of me an accident or just a traffic ticket being given out – oh, heck, was that my exit? – and so forth and so on.
A man who is retraining himself to be a leader must first clearly learn to lead himself. This manifests in many ways. Weight training not only improves posture, builds muscle mass making a man more visually attractive to women, it also improves a man’s health by increasing both testosterone and human growth hormone, and other aspects of his physical well being. It only works if a man lays down a schedule and keeps to it. He has to lead himself to do the work every day. This is hard at first. The popular claim is made that a habit is formed by doing the same thing every single day for three weeks. Sometimes it takes longer.
A man who is retraining himself to be a leader must carefully experiment. Aside from generalities, specifics vary. One man can assert himself better by always ensuring his cowboy boots are shined and his clothing neat, another man does better in a 3-piece suit, another man does better by making sure his scrubs are always a commanding color vs. the rest of the area.
GeeBee, I suggest you print off Hawaiian Libertarian’s article and read it with care off line. Experiment in public places that you do not often go to. Go into a coffee place as “your old self”. Then consciously, deliberately, rachet up your Game – cocky-funny often works well in these places. Notice how you seem to “pop” into view of women. They did not seem to “see” you before, now they “see you”. This is not imaginary. Women perceive men differently than men perceive women – it is possible for a man to be a grey entity that “pops” into view, I have done it. The results are fascinating.
4. Unconscious competence – this stage is the end stage of any skill set development. While there is always room for improvement – a faster lap time on the track, a higher shooting score, a bit better compliance from a wife – at least here a man is doing things the proper and right way but no longer has to think about it. He no longer has to remind himself “Don’t slouch! Don’t take a passive stance! Don’t talk in a higher pitched voice!”, he just does those things without thinking about them. At this point, he leads himself and those under his authority with a calm, never flustered, confident demeanor. Fitness tests are fewer, and less drastic, because when they happen he brushes them back without effort. Rebellion and defiance are very rare. He can now concentrate on many other things in life, work and pleasure, because he doesn’t have to spend hours worrying about loyalty, or being cheated on, or being backstabbed by his wife. If he is single, and marriage minded, he goes about his day in a calm manner, sercure in the knowledge that he will soon select a mate from the pool of women – and she will be fit for him.
I hope this is useful to you.
Good to see you, AR.
I’ve been to my church too, the one I go to every sunday. And I too see the fat, entitled, 30 something women each with at least one snot nosed brat in tow, showing up in their Mitsubishi Eclipse convertibles (late model), no father in sight, lining up for the weekly handouts from the food pantry, bitching about how sweet Mrs. Jones is five minutes late and they’ve got to get down to the welfare office when it opens up and they’ve got to get to the store because their EBT cards just got filled up on the 15th and texting someone on their Blackberrys while Junior plays Call of Duty on his iPad.
@deti
This is something I have been thinking about for some time. The Bible explicitly commands Christians to take care of widows (James 1:27). And yet, churchianity’s focus is caring for baby mama’s and frivolous divorcees to the exclusion of widows. Widows with children never get mentioned by churchians today.
I have a theory as to why. Widows are not an example of feminist empowerment, but of innocent weakness. As such, their existence is inconvenient to feminist churchians (which is most of them), whose chief desire is power over men.
Widows are also much rarer today outside of certain age brackets. As a society we have a much lower attrition rate than in days of yore.
Bskillet:
I think you’re right about widows as showing innocent weakness and not feminist empowerment. Another part of it is that the church has been roundly criticized in the past for being “judgmental” and “harsh” in rejecting or counseling young sluts against sluthood. Feminist christians and liberal Christians constantly rail on the church for this, sternly rebuking churches for “failing to live up to Jesus’ message of love and acceptance and tolerance”. The church desperately wants to be seen as nonjudgmental. So the Church and its majority-female membership (most of them former sluts themselves) have been cowed into moderating their positions.
Yet another part of it is that churches are expected to minister to and care for widows and orphans. What a novel thing to minister to sluts wanting to come to Jesus. Thing is, as I’ve expounded on at length elsewhere, sluts don’t really get much help or instruction on true reform from most churches.
TFTL, D!
AR -What a coincidence. Your 4 stages of competence is a huge part of the post I’ve been working on for the past week, and is sitting in my cue waiting to be published….
I found an anonymous commenter at a photography blog had posted it, and I took it and riffed off of it with a post similar to the comment you just posted here! Where did you learn it from? Is that some part of a Business/training program or something?
The exact phrases – unconscious incompetence, conscious incompetence, conscious competence and finally unconscious competence makes this highly unlikely you and some other anonymous commenter to come up with this independent of each other….you both must have been exposed or read about it from some common source?
My post deals with relating those 4 stages to Bruce Lee’s famous quote about “a punch is just a punch, a kick is just a kick.”
Mind sharing where you got it from??
The thing that all of those people are missing is that women deserve men who are caring, kind and respectful. […] That doesn’t change because someone has a child.
I’m still anxiously awaiting proof of the magical relationship fairy, who wanders around dispensing eligible millionaires to all the bitter, angry, washed up shrikes who imagine they are “entitled” to prince charming. All I ever hear from women (the uglier they are, the more they chant this silly fairy tale, ad nauseum) is the fact that their “one” is right around the corner, but I know few who find him. Those who do, don’t seem to appreciate him.
I feel sincerely sorry for the poor schlub who is trapped in a marriage with the miserable old cunt who penned the original article. I hope he finds the resolve to someday divorce his worthless wife. Many men ought to take the financial hit and move on with their lives. A marriage to someone of this calibre is surely worse than being divorced.
If someone kept telling me to appreciate my car every day, I’d get pretty angry.
Or if they kept telling me to appreciate my apartment, or the fact that I have food on the table. What if people came up to you every day and said, you should be glad you have your eyesight! You’d stop appreciating it pretty darn fast.
These are very good things to have, but when people remind you constantly it is BEYOND irritating. The implication is you believe good things just fall into your lap and that you’re too incompetent to realize your fortune. The woman says NOT that she is ungrateful, just that she wishes other people would stop telling her to be.
She IS fortunate and it sounds like she knows he’s a very, very good man.
As to the first post? Heck yeah I can see a single mother doing that. Some people are selfish, stupid pricks.
I have been enjoying that post for weeks now. Big shout out to Ian Ironwood and the others who commented. I was astounded how many defended that article.
@keoni
“unconscious incompetence, conscious incompetence, conscious competence and finally unconscious competence”
Thats an old NLP quote, probably by Bandler or Charles Faulkner
“They already have the kid,” 17-year-old Mark Robinson told KOMO. “I don’t think slandering other teenage moms is going to help.”
YES IT WILL.
The definition of “Cuckold” on Wikipedia doesn’t appear to match the context it’s being used on this blog. Is there is a glossary for this website?
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