I came across a youtube video by Pastor Gabriel Hughes that exemplifies the complementarian position. There are two competing messages in the video below:
- We believe in solid Bible based theology, and therefore women are not to be in leadership.
- This theology is good because a woman approves!
In theory complementarians have only partially gutted 1 Timothy 2:11-15. But as the video demonstrates, the underlying sentiment is one of theological obedience to women and feminism. What the CBMW founders called the traditional reading of the passage is rejected out of hand in the beginning of the video for being unacceptable to modern women:
After presenting the new and improved reading of the previously offending verse, the narrator then goes back and asks the wife if she approves:
This is how we know the narrator has arrived at the correct theology.
Bonus frame: No complementarian capitulation to feminism would be complete without the obligatory call for men to step up:
Disgusting.
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In communist countries like China and N.Korea, churches are allowed to exist, so long as they pay homage to the ideology of the state. They are by law required to be registered with the state so that their belief systems can be monitored. American Christianity is starting to look the same – they pay homage to Neo-Marxism, the ideology of the state before God. They bend their knee to a fundamentally atheist ideology and I suspect a few decades later, it will become the law in North America as well.
The look on his face in both frames—
That look of trepidation, on egg shells hoping that this explanation suffices is priceless.
It’s a similar dynamic to the quote usually attributed to Voltaire “to learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize”
But not exactly. Not only are you not allowed to criticize, you must ask permission to say anything definitive at all. Your opinions must be approved.
This is exactly what I mean. Ugly people go to church and do reasonably well there, are allowed to breed, and the place crawls with them. The only other place people like this could carve a successful life for themselves is protesting tampons.
In another life, she’s a single mom in a swamped trailer. In another life, he got shot in the back of the head in Iraq.
I don’t have a problem if she tried to lose her chicken wings and he lost some of the fat from his face and they both shed 8,000 pounds of smugness. But you go to church and it’s like ugly and fat is the new hot.
That Adam and Eve picture, they must have told her to pull down the straps of her modest one-piece for like 8 seconds. “You guys aren’t actually naked; this is for Jesus.” He’s working overtime to suppress his God-given urge for the context of marriage, because she’s NOT naked. Pervert.
That couple looks like they are literal brothers and sisters, not in the Lord. I can’t imagine how boring their sexlife must be. She probably has like a Princess Leia costume she takes out at Christmas, known as “the outfit”.
Hi Dalrock. You recently wrote about it in She’s got balls.
Look where her balls got her! Nick, from Paris, with love.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/teenage-girl-punched-over-and-over-by-stranger-on-return-from-night-out-36234767.html
Girlfielf: Ugly people go to church and do reasonably well there, are allowed to breed, and the place crawls with them. The only other place people like this could carve a successful life for themselves is protesting tampons.
Washington D.C. (and politics generally) has been called “Hollywood for ugly people.”
Kick-ass, bad-ass heroine Lena Headey (Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, Dredd) says that Harvey Weinstein propositioned her. She said no, so nothing happened. After which she cried.
http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/lena-headey-harvey-weinstein-sexual-harassment-1202592505/
“He asked me a few questions about the state of my love life,” she said. “I shifted the conversation back to something less personal. Then he went to the loo. He came back and said, ‘Let’s go up to the room, I want to give you a script.’ We walked to the lift and the energy shifted, my whole body went into high alert, the lift was going up and I said to Harvey, ‘I’m not interested in anything other than work, please don’t think I got in here with you for any other reason, nothing is going to happen.’ I don’t know what possessed me to speak out at that moment, only that I had such a strong sense of don’t come near me.”
After, she said Weinstein furiously marched her out of the hotel and told her not to tell anyone about their exchange. “I felt completely powerless,” she wrote, concluding, “I got into my car and I cried.”
Imagine if a man cried because a woman had propositioned him. Yet feminists still insist that men and women are the same. That women have the physical and emotional strength to be Navy Seals, Green Berets, Marines, SWAT police officers, firefighters, etc.
Am I wrong for completely dismissing the video immediately after hearing the stupid ‘music’? In combination with the tone of voice I felt like this message was directed at kindergarteners. who are these people?
Femtwat writes list about what men must do to treat women better :
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/278580/
Women truly have no idea how women think. A woman is no more capable of writing a book on female psychology than a child is to write a book on child psychology. Telling a woman to her face : “You don’t understand how women think.” actually gets very little resistance from everyday women.
Sadly, stupid cuckservatives and manginas are dumb enough to take lists like these as instruction manuals.
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To allow older women to teach younger women is only gonna make the younger women want to become teachers themselves, which is guaranteed to create a problem in a long run. What the bible says is for older women to passively “teach” through behavior, as in without a word.
There can only be one active teacher per household, so if you want to avoid having your children pay mere lip-service to you, then that is something you have to also keep in mind.
Yes honey, the Bible says men are to lead their families but only where you want to go honey… yes honey, I’ll be right on it. Pat me on the head, please, honey. Thank you honey, I’m a good boy.
Notice that they disabled comments on the video. Cowards.
I suppose, in his mind, 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 doesn’t have any application here, even though it explicitly refutes his first negation of scripture:
Unrelated: Dalrock, have you ever considered setting up the advanced comment editor, or at least allowing to preview comments? That would be easier than just tags. Being able to preview comments would be wonderful.
@ Anon
I almost started to think it was satire once i got to the “always believe women” bullet point, but…I’m not so sure…
Nick Mgtow-
That story (and stories like it) exist at the convergence of feminisms delusional “girl power” trope and its simultaneous neovictorianism.
“[all] women are every bit as badss as [all] men and therefore Laura Croft or something. However, [all] men should be on the lookout to protect [all] women from [male] predators in the environment because they have the “right” to be anywhere they want, all by themselves, no matter what the circumstances and be able to confront a brute with no regard for the risks involved.”
I think the second part is particularly interesting because it seems like thats what they believe men do.
Its why the woman in the line at six flags was probably totally confounded by “her man” who did not make a big deal about the line cutters. He assessed the situation for risk and chose to leave it be.
I am 6’1″ and nearly 200 lbs. I am in pretty decent shape. But if a guy the size of Dwayne Johnson was following me and starting calling me a slut and bitch I would probably continue as quickly as a could to my car. I would especially do this if I had my wife me. The risks associated with trying to save face and strut around like a peacock are too high in that situation.
I really think “bad ass” women memes in movies, TV etc have done a terrible disservice in this regard. Another example of women trying to act like men, and completely missing the mark.
I haven’t seen it in a while, and my guess is because it did not play well, but a recent iteration of the Army’s sexual assault training videos contained vignettes of this caliber. They were pushing a sort of “watch out for your buddy” sort of system. To cover up the absurd double standard of it, they included at least one vignette of a man who almost gets sexually assaulted at a party, but his female “battle buddy” basically rounds up a few friends, encircles him and gets him out of there.
“You’ve been drinking too much. That guy is going to rape you in the bathroom. We are leaving.”
Sort of cross between an intervention and pre-crime enforcement.
Almost every vignette occurs at a party with a bunch of 18-early 20ish soldiers, at a party, drinking, etc. This, of course follows a certain logic because it is based on the “they are going to do it anyway” canard. There is no mention of the risks associated with being at a party like that in the first place.
Add this–
A friend of mine is an E-7. (Sergeant First Class). That’s a senior noncomissioned officer. But he was recently promoted from E-6, where he was knocked down in rank to after having already been an E-7 once.
The scenario was that he “popped hot” on a UA for THC. He was able to beat the rap based on the claim that there were THC laced brownies at the party. So they threw the “conduct unbecoming” thing at him. To wit–you should not have been at a party like that.
He should have said “I was just following the sexual assault training. I watched the video and knew there was a high risk of sexual assault involved in that party so I went there to be the designated stopper of it.”
This mess will not go away any time soon. There is too much cognitive dissonance and internal ego investment on a large scale for rationality to be restored.
Now the spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared
1 TIMOTHY 4:1-2
Well we all know nothing bad happens if a husband listens to his wife…especially with matters about God’s word. /sarc
The last bit of advice should come with an asterisk
Men: step up and lead*
*in a way your wife approves
@Scott and Nick Mgtow,
That story (and stories like it) exist at the convergence of feminisms delusional “girl power” trope and its simultaneous neovictorianism.
Even less dangerous pursuits like beer holding girl from the last post here fit that model. In every case it’s we can do anything a man can do, and we want equal treatment across the board, except for the multitude of exceptional cases where we don’t want to be treated like men – and you should automatically know when those cases are in effect.
____________________________________________
He was able to beat the rap based on the claim that there were THC laced brownies at the party.
The brownie defense has been around for decades now, and apparently still works if your counsel is skilled enough. Military traditions are there for a reason.
It’s probably more like a mother-son relationship. Even in a bro-sis relationship sometimes the brother will pick on the sister when she’s being a brat.
LP
His dad is a retired JAG officer.
LOL Scott. Maybe his dad actually invented the brownie defense back in the day…
This video affirms that women should not teach men, be in authority over men, or be the leaders in the church.
Am I understanding that you think the correct interpretation of that scripture is that women should not even speak in church?
The obligatory debasement before the wife authority is consistent with male submission of the modern church – I agree that is embarrassing – but if those parts were taken out of the video would you still be upset and consider the right interpretation to be that women cannot ever speak in church? They cannot teach children or other women?
@Kevin
Yes. Although I suspect what you are really getting at in your customary ankle biting way is “What kind of speech is Paul telling us is prohibited”? I quoted Dr. Douglass Moo in this post answering that question. You can also see a discussion of it here. Both strike me as sensible readings of that question (but I disagree strongly with Moo, Grudem, and Piper on their innovation allowing women to preach to women).
Putting your question another way:
Yes. But you have a talent for profoundly missing the point.
Moreover, the video offers the same loophole for women to preach to women that Moo, Piper, and Grudem invented.
Men, it’s time to lead…from behind your wife!
In 2000, my admin retired when I was at IBM. She was my a little older than my mother at that time. She was an excellent admin. Total old school, graduate of the “Katherine Gibbs School” knew shorthand, Handled so much for me, and seeing pictures of her in 1963……wow…a knockout.
Before they got me a full-time replacement…..I was assigned a young woman who was from a temp agency, who was not a college graduate, was still in the local community college………had zero class, and had no business being called an “admin”
She came to work one day in pole-swinger shoes and a dress that was NOT appropriate for work. I arrived at work, said a polite “good morning” went into my office, shut the door and then tried to figure out how I was going to handle this. Easy right? Tell her she was dressed inappropriately for work.
Wrong.
If I said that, then I was “noticing her looks, her body, and the like” which could cause her to “feel” sexually harassed and me getting hauled into HR. If I said nothing, all it would take is my manager (a women) or other employees to perceive and “think” that I was encouraging her to dress like this. The admin could then say “he, never told me not to dress like this” which in turn would still have me counseled and a “corrective action” put on my file……she plays the victim in either case, and I am still the bad guy. This young woman thought she was “Ally McBeal” and would mention off-hand at times to me that “girls rule and boys drool”
So I called my manager, explained the situation. She said “I’ll be right over.”
She corrected this woman on appropriate attire, and she told me that I “handled the situation appropriately and correctly.” Fortunately they got me a full-time professional admin within the next week.
Haha. Testy today. We all have different talents – I just have to go with the ones God gave me and make the best of it.
Thanks for the clarifying links and your patience. Much of this is new to me. I read them both. Nope, I was not really getting at your rephrase, just the broader question, although I guess I would have stumbled around to that eventually.
To allow older women to teach younger women is only gonna make the younger women want to become teachers themselves, which is guaranteed to create a problem in a long run.
To repeat what I’ve pointed out on multiple prior occasions:
Allowing women of ANY age these days to teach or influence other women is just begging for more discord and rebellion.
Today’s generation of “older women” came into young adulthood when Second-Wave Feminism (2WF) was in its ascendency and almost all of them (yes, even almost all “Christian” women) drank deeply of it, to the point where it completely subsumed their souls. These women have NEVER submitted to their husbands or even tried to be Godly wives as Scripture commands. The only effect that having them teach younger women will have is that they will merely teach younger women how to ramp up the rebellion and feminist attitude, “building a better bitch.” Not what Christianity today needs, to put it charitably.
The “Titus 2 wife” is extinct, a relic of a bygone age when society (to say nothing of the church) held women to some actual standards of behavior. Those days are long gone, and we’re now seeing the results as early-stage Baby Boomer feminists turn into angry, retirement home-dwelling cat ladies in ever-growing numbers.
Kevin @ 8:53 am:
“Am I understanding that you think the correct interpretation of that scripture is that women should not even speak in church?”
It’s absolutely necessary. Female rebellion is at such an extreme level these days that
1. There’s no difference in effort between going one half-step back and literally chaining Barefoot Barbie to the stove, and
2. We’re going to be accused of doing this until we actually do it.
Scott,
Supposedly, 50% of sexual assaults in the military have men as victims.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26524277
9767-
I’ve seen that claim, and its very weird. It doesn’t pass a basic sniff test.
Since I am the type of provider who often comes in contact with SA cases, arguably more than any other type of provider, and since men still make up about 85% of the army, you would think I would have at least come in contact with one such case.
I have never even heard of one. (Except the 2-3 that they featured in the documentary that came out in conjunction with those figures).
I am friends with some of the researchers at UCSF and the VA where a lot of that research comes out of, and they swear its true. But the bulk of those cases are supposedly “unreported due to stigma.”
That’s fine, but if its true, how do they quantify the estimate? I’m suspicious, frankly.
If I am really being cynical, my guess is they believe that they have to play up the hidden-epidemic-of-male-sexual-assault angle because they believe sexual assault is not taken seriously if it is mostly women. In other words say “it happens to men too” so people will pay attention. (This is because they believe their own rhetoric that no one cares about women’s issues).
Also. I remember when the first batch of studies came out claiming this, and I tried to do the math quickly in my head. I tried to imagine, based on how many vets are still living, how many people are currently on active duty, the numbers claimed, etc and the number was so astronomical it was bordering on incredulous.
I could be wrong, but under the current climate I think it is pretty much impossible for modern day, feminism-inculcated females not to look upon this “must be silent in church” and “must not preach” Christian dogma with outrage and disdain.
Even those women who would mind the instruction and accept it, probably only go through the motions and would likely possess some level of contempt for it in secret. So I don’t think that men and elders of the church can ever entirely trust it.
Little wonder why most churches skip this instruction entirely and simply adopt feminism and attempt to co-exist with it. Keep the beast in slumber.
Lol, I thought the exact same thing when I saw that video.
It’s emasculating and idolatrous to determine your interpretation of Scripture by what does or doesn’t offend women in the culture we happen to inhabit.
If I am really being cynical, my guess is they believe that they have to play up the hidden-epidemic-of-male-sexual-assault angle because they believe sexual assault is not taken seriously if it is mostly women. In other words say “it happens to men too” so people will pay attention. (This is because they believe their own rhetoric that no one cares about women’s issues).
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here, Scott. Anyone who has spent any amount of time on active duty within the last 25 years knows that DoD policy is fully captive to PC and that it is all driven by the same, no matter how ridiculous or counter-productive the results.
That story doesn’t mention anything about her aggravating this assault in any way. I don’t see how we can celebrate that.
I could be wrong, but under the current climate I think it is pretty much impossible for modern day, feminism-inculcated females not to look upon this “must be silent in church” and “must not preach” Christian dogma with outrage and disdain.
Even those women who would mind the instruction and accept it, probably only go through the motions and would likely possess some level of contempt for it in secret.
Of course.
Women today generally only go through the motions of believing (and then only if it doesn’t cost them anything in terms of their status in the World), clearly not caring –or probably even realizing– that if their contempt for the Scriptures and God’s standards of behavior that He has set down for them to follow is so overt that men notice it, then God Himself most surely notices it too, and He is going to be a lot less forgiving of their behavior come time to account for it.
More proof that women cannot grasp 1) the “big picture” or think long term, or 2) cause and effect.
Hell…since we’re deconstructing the words of St. Paul on how they are holdovers from the Patriarchy, we should invite back and heed the words of Artisanal Toad. I’d rather follow his brand of Christianity than these feminist preachers.
I’d rather follow his brand of Christianity than these feminist preachers.
If these feminist castrati “preachers” had any sense of honesty or human decency, they’d just establish a whole new religion based on their watered-down churchianity, a religion that doesn’t even pretend to reject the world and follow the Scriptures in letter and spirit. At least that would preclude those of us looking for the real Christian faith from confusing their congregations with groups of Bible-adhering Christians.
feericker: He is going to be a lot less forgiving of their behavior come time to account for it.
Yet many Christian women believe in an all loving and all forgiving and non-judgemental God.
Curiously, these women don’t think God will be so forgiving to anyone who upsets or angers them; only to themselves. Jesus loves ME!
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I have said repeatedly that all women, including Christian women, are closet feminists (or ‘feminist-lite’) if only because of the society they have been raised in. I cannot think of a single Christian woman in my circle of people or family who would not bristle at being told they are to be quite in church and that they cannot attend a bible study given by another woman. Heck, you can’t even say anything about men being better at pretty much everything (mentally, physically, etc) without someone getting irritated and just try to suggest that women should cover their heads while in the church or praying! It would take a very strong Christian woman to see that within herself and work to extract it. It can be done, but one has to be willing to recognize it and then actually work at fixing the problem.
The “step up and lead” thing, in the context of which it so often appears in the complimentarian context, accomplishes two purposes from what I can see:
1. Allows the woman to wield the male as her personal proxy in the world.
2. Acts as a smoke screen to cover up #1.
Women turning men into their muses with help from evangelical ministry cucks.
@ astrapto
That story doesn’t mention anything about her aggravating this assault in any way. I don’t see how we can celebrate that.
That’s true. The article only says she turned around to confront him, which can mean nearly anything without more information.
SnapperTrx
I have said repeatedly that all women, including Christian women, are closet feminists (or ‘feminist-lite’) if only because of the society they have been raised in.
All of us are swimming in the stinky sea of feminism. Anyone who is not actively pushing back against it at least in their own mind is passively accepting it. Women in churches are just conservative feminists – they oppose abortion and lesbian marriage (although opposition to the latter is weakening in the under 40’s).
As you point out, no way that the average church woman will accept remaining silent in church, asking her husband when she does not understand something. That’s in the conservative, “no women preachers / positions of authority” churches, and the Baptist video that is the source of the OP is a clear and obvious example of that.
Push back against the Female Imperative. Start inside your own head, then extend that to a part of the world around you. It can be a surprise how much relief women will show when some decisions are taken away.
American
The “step up and lead” thing, in the context of which it so often appears in the complimentarian context, accomplishes two purposes from what I can see:
1. Allows the woman to wield the male as her personal proxy in the world.
2. Acts as a smoke screen to cover up #1.
Also known as “backleading” in the dance world. Another term for it that works best with churchgoing people is Figurheadship.
It is the chauffeur model: women telling men where to go, men get to “drive” the car.
“It can be a surprise how much relief women will show when some decisions are taken away.”
I wish. I “pushed back” against my pastor for his allowing the ladies of the church to teach a service, actively encouraging them to do so more often AND telling men that if they don’t listen to their wives about matters of scripture are “spiritually dead and Pharisees”. Add to that “don’t be surprised when your wife becomes smarter than you and stops being submissive and obedient”. After leaving the church, nary a thank you from my lovely wife, just a whole lot of disrespect, disobedience and arguments.
The “decisions” women want taken away are the decisions they don’t want to make AT, THAT, MOMENT. Otherwise you are being an oppressive bully who only wants to read the bible so you can control her.
@earl thomas: Yeah, she probably gets mad at him for having dirty socks and organizes the cereal in bins. She stopped buying Fruit Loops, because he wanted to eat them for breakfast and lunch.
You’re on to something: a lot of Evangelical guys seem to want to marry their mom’s personality. Not a youthful mother of their children, but a 20-something who looks like she pushed out eight kids and hit menopause already.
Modern evangelical church culture for men is an unending challenge to find ways to appease women while reconciling it with a faith that blatantly tells men not to appease women. Every time I see a new example of this I’m amazed at the lengths to which men will go to maintain the precarious balance between affirming women’s social dominance and distorting a faith that’s supposed to be the most important part of our lives. Christian men will literally seek to alter the metaphysical in order to keep women pacified.
This is precisely the reason I say that the modern church is a Beta farm with the expressed purpose of conditioning compliant, complacent men who will be held responsible for all the ills of the church and women while endlessly trying to live up to the supposed headship they’re privileged with but never afforded.
https://therationalmale.com/2016/08/30/losing-my-religion/
(slightly NSFW)
You know, I just realized that there is no plethora of articles by men bemoaning the dearth of good women. Sure, there are a few men in this dark corner of the interwebz, but overall, where are the articles about the lack of good women?
Hmmmm.
where are the articles about the lack of good women?
There are certainly not as many as there are bemoaning the lack of good men, but they’re being written. Here are a few:
https://www.charismamag.com/life/women/20031-13-women-men-should-never-marry
(That one was expanded into book form)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4817380/Where-good-women-gone.html
https://www.theodysseyonline.com/where-have-all-the-good-women-gone
What Orwell called “Double Think”.
where are the articles about the lack of good women?
Men either:
1. don’t care/have more important things to worry about/have gone MGTOW.
2. realize that it’s all a matter of where you look (i.e., they get a passport, learn some foreign languages, and go abroad where all the good women actually are).
3. know that “good women,” as the proverb says, are as rare as gemstones and don’t expect herds of them to be standing on every corner waiting to be plucked up (i.e., it takes time and effort to search for and find one).
4. consider pining in word or in print about a lack of good women to be about as disgustingly gamma as a man can get and that doing so is the surest way to NEVER find a “good woman” who will give them the time of day.
Rollo Tomassi says:
October 18, 2017 at 3:01 pm
TRM really ought to be mandatory reading for every Protestant seminary/Bible college student.
@feeriker, I agree with you on all counts. It was just something that struck me in the wake of all the #meeeeeeeto stuff going around and all the mindless drivel it’s spawned on HuffPo and Medium etc.
Then, I also figured that even if they were written, almost no media outlets would publish them because the definition of a good woman is so obviously hateful and wrongthink etc.
It just reminded me of that quote about knowing what things are sacred cows being those things you can’t criticize(poorly paraphrased).
Fee, Rollo:
TRM and Dalrock should be the blog of choice for Christian men because of the systematic breakdown you get at Rollo’s and the integration of that breakdown into Christian life you get here.
TRM and Dalrock should be the blog of choice for Christian men because of the systematic breakdown you get at Rollo’s and the integration of that breakdown into Christian life you get here.
Imagine the cosmic vibration caused by all the heads exploding …
Rollo
Modern evangelical church culture for men is an unending challenge to find ways to appease women while reconciling it with a faith that blatantly tells men not to appease women.
The video in the OP being a prime example, because the Baptist churches that don’t allow women to preach or teach adult men are shining examples of Teh Terrible Patriarchy compared to many other denominations. That guy with the teeth? He’s a patriarch by modern standards. Of course he knows that’s true because his wife told him so….
Women keep getting what they want in church after church, and getting angrier and angrier. Sore winners the lot of them, because the words on paper don’t match up with what they have demanded and gotten.
This is one reason why newer translations of the Bible keep coming out, I am convinced. For example, anyone care to offer an opinion on the NIV translation of 2011?
‘where are the articles about the lack of good women?’
Major media and the like for the most part are on the feminist train wreck. The articles even hinting that women are part of the problem are few and far between.
On a related note: I visited a conservative reformed church two months ago, and three women from one family (mother and two young adult daughters) were wearing head coverings. It was very attractive. They were the odd ones out though.
Unfortunately, they were a lot taller than me (I’m fairly short at only 5’7″), so I knew they would see me as a loser…
Submissive women are beautiful women. Rebellious women are Jezebel’s daughters.
There are still churches where only men can be priests, pastors, elders, or deacons; and this is so only because their women are currently allowing it. Standby for further developments on that front.
A year or so ago I did not know what CBMW meant or had to do with anything. Now I am acquainted with the philosophy and several men that subscribe to it wholeheartedly. I’ve asked them if the complementarian position isn’t simply a compromise between biblical patriarchy and modern egalitarian equalism. They are certain that complementarian is the same as biblical patriarchy. Part of the evidence is that CBMW people are held up by their detractors as hard core, fundamentalist, outdated, patriarchal oppressors of women. It’s as though they’re saying “So you see? They think we are veritable storm troopers of the biblical way.”
This is how far things have gone. CBMW style complementarians are seen as the Staunchly Conservative keepers of the flame, by themselves and those opposed to them on egalitarian grounds. The watered down soup is now the main course.
LP-
Most orthodox in the pews (or standing like they are supposed to do) are this way.
It’s a way of feeling like you are being a hardcore old school defender of the faith without actually having to do or say anything hard core or controversial.
I think the problem with Elspeth’s links are that all are written by women or at least two are. Can’t be sure on the last one but I think it’s written by a woman too.
This is how far things have gone. CBMW style complementarians are seen as the Staunchly Conservative keepers of the flame, by themselves and those opposed to them on egalitarian grounds. The watered down soup is now the main course.
That’s what happens when the Christian Overton Window shifts — it has shifted, such that what was once moderate modernism is now considered staunch traditionalism, and what was once traditionalism is now considered unacceptable sexism and misogyny.
anonymous_ng: I just realized that there is no plethora of articles by men bemoaning the dearth of good women.
The mainstream media wouldn’t publish such articles, because a man’s definition of a woman would be regarded as sexist, even misogynistic.
What is a good woman? Chaste before marriage. Loyal, devoted, supportive, honest, good tempered, and nurturing to her husband. (i.e., doesn’t whine, nag, manipulate, or deceive. Not a slut, a drunkard, or a spendthrift.)
In modern terms, a good woman is a doormat.
Do you really expect mainstream publications to print articles asking, Where have all the good doormats gone? Maybe facetiously.
According to mainstream publications, men are supposed to want Strong, Independent Women with college degrees and white collar “careers.” If not, you’re “afraid” and “insecure in your masculinity.”
Red PIll Latecomer
According to mainstream publications, men are supposed to want Strong, Independent Women with college degrees and white collar “careers.” If not, you’re “afraid” and “insecure in your masculinity.”
For those playing along at home:
Those would be the same publications who ask “where are all the good men” and are tiptoeing up to asking “what’s this MGTOW thing all about?” as well. Not good at cause and effect.
In The Salvation Army, women have been “commissioned” as Officers (pastors) since the 1870’s. When an Officer married (Sally Army Officers may only marry Sally Army Officers) the man would take full duties as pastor of the local Corps. Women Officers usually were not put in the pulpit, even if they stayed single. Most women Officers were put into management of “orphan homes” or “women’s recovery / addiction programs” or the local “food pantry” or “shelter”
They did preach at times, and the Army has had three women “Generals” since its founding. The most recent was Linda Bond from Canada (the current General is Andre Cox from Switzerland). When Linda Bond became the General, all the women in the Army were saying “Finally, a woman is running the Army again, and hopefully she will make the womens uniform a pantsuit”
She didn’t. In fact she enforced the current uniform and said “if you can’t or won’t wear your Uniform properly to be set apart and demonstrate your outward appearance of a deep, convicted inward change in Christ….then don’t bother wearing it!”
I actually smirked at that, and thought “well, at least some standards here are going to be held up”
The Daily Mail article cited by Elspeth is an interesting example of spin.
experts say … that men are actually more sensitive than women, and struggle to deal with romantic knock-backs.
Trelawney Kerrigan, a consultant for the Dating Agency Association, says: ‘Women will take a more positive approach while men, after a couple of knock-backs, will shrivel up. They are easily disillusioned; women are better at brushing themselves off.
If a study shows that women are more sensitive, this means that men — by contrast — are callus porn addicts.
If a study shows that men are more sensitive, this mean that women — by contrast — are more strong and resilient.
Which ever sex is more sensitive, or more whatever, the conclusion is that women are superior.
Wanting the feminist emasculating nag of a woman is considered normal to them…wanting a submissive wife means you are a weak man. Screw em…they’re wrong
My opinion of the new NIV translation of 2011?
It furthered my resolve to the King James Bible first and foremost. The only other version I do use is the NIV 1978 edition occasionally.
There is unfortunately for feminists, one clear truth of Scripture:
We can’t change it. We can’t, because it isn’t ours to change. We have to bend to it, not selfishly cherry-pick it when it suits us.
If they don’t like that – and the majority of women in church do EXACTLY like the one seen in this clip (”Good luck with that, honey”), then it’s only fair to put the man’s side of the equation up for similar debate:
1. ”Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral” Hebrew s 13: 4
2.”You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell” Acts 15: 29.
Read per se, the message of these is quite clear and unambiguous.
But let’s apply a little chick logic:
-”What does adultery actually mean? What forms of sexual immorality are banned? It doesn’t say. Can it mean that I can hire a chick to give me a massage with a Happy Ending? That’s okay because after all, no penetration = no sex = no adultery. Right?”
-”Well, we don’t strangle animals to kill them anymore, so the whole verse was right for the culture when the NT was written. So it’s okay to fornicate, because banning it is outdated and cruel….”
Can I find a Pastor who will rationalize Scripture away like this? Sign me up!
Truth. There is only one type of Truth. That is, absolute consistency between the claimed and the observed.
Women don’t understand Truth.
The Daily Mail article cited by Elspeth is an interesting example of spin.
experts say … that men are actually more sensitive than women, and struggle to deal with romantic knock-backs.
Trelawney Kerrigan, a consultant for the Dating Agency Association, says: ‘Women will take a more positive approach while men, after a couple of knock-backs, will shrivel up. They are easily disillusioned; women are better at brushing themselves off.
Yep.
All this is easily explained by a bit of red pill understanding, as we all know here. Women easily brush things off because they are the “in demand” sex (on average, not talking about apex men), so it’s just a matter of going to the next guy who is attractive enough to her, and there is always abundance. That makes it easy to brush off “romantic knock-backs”.
The average man, who has not improved himself RP wise and made himself one of the few “in demand” men, will be much more despondent under the same circumstances because he knows how hard she is to replace (for him, because, again, he has made it harder on himself to find a replacement), and so he is despondent because he rationally sees that she is hard to replace given his level of attractiveness and how long his spells are between women.
This is what is going on here — not greater resilience among women or more sensitivity among men. What is going on is that average women are in much higher demand than average men, and so they weather the fallout much more easily than average men do. Very simple and easy to understand with a RP understanding of the basic market dynamics, supply and demand (and the deep imbalance there in the SMP at the “average” levels), and what the participants bring to the table. Much more informative and actionable than the drivel in that article, that’s for certain.
Women don’t understand Truth.
It’s not that they don’t understand it, they just don’t like it. Thus the endless, painful, and ultimately destructive contortions and hamsterizations in order to avoid it.
I mentioned upthread that if churchians were honest, they would establish a whole new religion that didn’t even pretend to adhere to beliefs and standards of the Bible that conflicted with the dictates of the modern secular world. If women were honest they would also admit that they have no real use for the Christian faith except those (taken largely out of context) cherry-picked portions of it that enable their feeeeeeeeelings.
If I kind of like a guy OR there is any amount of turbulence, I don’t handle rejection well. If it’s more platonic-feeling, I don’t mind. If a guy is polite and we only get coffee a couple of times, it’s not a problem, even if he ends it. The problem I experience is when I start telling them what my boundaries are (to honest and be upfront), they get verbally abusive like nothing I’ve ever experienced. I simply can’t handle dating.
I can see why women without those boundaries don’t have an issue. They never have to look at their worth objectively: they use their sexuality to boost their value, and avoid getting rejected as a person. They think they are really something special, and they’ll never know any different.
Very simple and easy to understand with a RP understanding of the basic market dynamics, supply and demand (and the deep imbalance there in the SMP at the “average” levels), and what the participants bring to the table.
The question is “what do WOMEN ‘bring to the table,’ other than a vagina (and usually not even a quality one at that)?”
More and more men are discovering that the answer to this is question is “attitude, debt, entitlement, excessive body fat, greed, mental illness, STDs/STIs, and no thought whatsoever to anything or anyone but themselves.”
And women don’t seem to be doing or saying anything to deny the reality of this. Indeed, many seem downright PROUD of it.
In other words, women today bring NOTHING positive or redemptive to the table that makes a man’s money, time, or future worth the investment. Given the increasing frequency with which I’m seeing cliques of women gathering in public places without a single male companion among them, it would appear that growing numbers of men have decided that they’re less “thirsty” than they thought and that there are a growing number of ways to sublimate their sexual needs without shedding their dignity and humanity, as the current SMP demands of all but the top ten percent of Alphas.
‘It’s not that they don’t understand it, they just don’t like it.’
If they don’t understand the truth is Jesus Christ, they make up truth as they go along. This also applies to men.
‘The problem I experience is when I start telling them what my boundaries are (to honest and be upfront), they get verbally abusive like nothing I’ve ever experienced. I simply can’t handle dating.’
Your better off not dating emotionally umstable men and Jr. Hitlers.
Elspeth @ 3:18 pm:
“/life/women/20031-13-women-men-should-never-marry (That one was expanded into book form)”
A similar charismamag article that was expanded into book form was “Ten Lies the Church Tells Women”.
/www charismamag com/site-archives/1570-spirit-led-woman/bible-study/9468-ten-lies-the-church-tells-women
The article is dated but the arguments are still in use, in fact unchanged, so I gave it a fisking on my blog.
https://gunnerq.com/2017/10/16/ten-truths-the-church-tells-women/
I don’t know…have a lot of men figured out that drinking saltwater doesnt cure the ‘thirst’?
Dating is made for thots and the men who love them, not girls like me. I’m not welcome in that pond.
It has been said before and bears repeating. Women have become the replacement for the Holy Spirit in the eye of the modern church.
feeriker,
And women don’t seem to be doing or saying anything to deny the reality of this. Indeed, many seem downright PROUD of it.
In other words, women today bring NOTHING positive or redemptive to the table that makes a man’s money, time, or future worth the investment.
Once again :
‘Feminism’, far from helping women, has instead exposed the full extent of female inferiority (moral, intellectual, economic, spousal, parental, civic, spiritual) far more visibly than was ever possible before ‘feminism’.
Traditional customs benefited women far more than men, because they kept women out of situations where their inferiority would quickly manifest, so that women could remain with an element of mystery leading to them being fobbed off onto heavily deceived men.
The Elspeth link:
https://www.charismamag.com/life/women/20031-13-women-men-should-never-marry
I think it’s only fair to say Proverbs 31 describes several women, not just one.
1) Incorrect. It’s a Hebrew acrostic poem.
http://www.bible-researcher.com/acrostics.html
Solomon had several wives, and this is a combined list of many.
2) Solomon did indeed have several wives. 700 to be exact, along with 300 concubines. But their
effect on him was to turn his heart away from God.
1 Kings 11:3 – And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.
http://biblehub.com/1_kings/11-3.htm
3) No one knows for sure if Solomon wrote Proverbs 31. Some scholars say he did, others say he didn’t. They are the words of the theretofore unidentified King Lemuel, which may or may not be Solomon writing under a pen name.
Proverbs 31:1 – The words of king Lemuel, the prophecy that his mother taught him.
http://biblehub.com/proverbs/31-1.htm
4) If it is Solomon who wrote that, then his mother Bathsheba, the one who got in the palace through an adulteress affair that led to murder, was telling him to avoid women like herself, non-virtuous.
To expect a woman to fulfill all of these qualities is unrealistic.
5) Incorrect. This is not the only place in scripture where the expectations for godly women are stated.
Titus 2:5 – To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
http://biblehub.com/titus/2-5.htm
But there are a lot of women who meet most of the guidelines in Proverbs 31.
6) According to who? Who determines if a woman is godly or not? And what is meant by “a lot?” What’s the sample size? And which “guidelines” do they meet?
I would say the list I have summarized here would be Proverbs 32—women to avoid.
7) No, the Lord’s words are already pure and flawless, you don’t have to create your own scripture to add to them.
Psalm 12:6 – The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
http://biblehub.com/psalms/12-6.htm
8) The scriptures in Proverbs already have many warnings about women to avoid.
Proverbs 2:16-19 (KJV)
16 To deliver thee from the strange woman, even from the stranger which flattereth with her words;
17 Which forsaketh the guide of her youth, and forgetteth the covenant of her God.
18 For her house inclineth unto death, and her paths unto the dead.
19 None that go unto her return again, neither take they hold of the paths of life.
Proverbs 5:3-14 (KJV)
3 For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:
4 But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a two-edged sword.
5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.
6 Lest thou shouldest ponder the path of life, her ways are moveable, that thou canst not know them.
7 Hear me now therefore, O ye children, and depart not from the words of my mouth.
8 Remove thy way far from her, and come not nigh the door of her house:
9 Lest thou give thine honour unto others, and thy years unto the cruel:
10 Lest strangers be filled with thy wealth; and thy labours be in the house of a stranger;
11 And thou mourn at the last, when thy flesh and thy body are consumed,
12 And say, How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof;
13 And have not obeyed the voice of my teachers, nor inclined mine ear to them that instructed me!
14 I was almost in all evil in the midst of the congregation and assembly.
Proverbs 6:24-35 (KJV)
24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman.
25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.
26 For by means of a whorish woman a man is brought to a piece of bread: and the adultress will hunt for the precious life.
27 Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?
28 Can one go upon hot coals, and his feet not be burned?
29 So he that goeth in to his neighbour’s wife; whosoever toucheth her shall not be innocent.
30 Men do not despise a thief, if he steal to satisfy his soul when he is hungry;
31 But if he be found, he shall restore sevenfold; he shall give all the substance of his house.
32 But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.
33 A wound and dishonour shall he get; and his reproach shall not be wiped away.
34 For jealousy is the rage of a man: therefore he will not spare in the day of vengeance.
35 He will not regard any ransom; neither will he rest content, though thou givest many gifts.
Proverbs 7:1-27 (KJV)
My son, keep my words, and lay up my commandments with thee.
2 Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.
3 Bind them upon thy fingers, write them upon the table of thine heart.
4 Say unto wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman:
5 That they may keep thee from the strange woman, from the stranger which flattereth with her words.
6 For at the window of my house I looked through my casement,
7 And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding,
8 Passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house,
9 In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night:
10 And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart.
11 (She is loud and stubborn; her feet abide not in her house:
12 Now is she without, now in the streets, and lieth in wait at every corner.)
13 So she caught him, and kissed him, and with an impudent face said unto him,
14 I have peace offerings with me; this day have I payed my vows.
15 Therefore came I forth to meet thee, diligently to seek thy face, and I have found thee.
16 I have decked my bed with coverings of tapestry, with carved works, with fine linen of Egypt.
17 I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon.
18 Come, let us take our fill of love until the morning: let us solace ourselves with loves.
19 For the goodman is not at home, he is gone a long journey:
20 He hath taken a bag of money with him, and will come home at the day appointed.
21 With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him.
22 He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks;
23 Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hasteth to the snare, and knoweth not that it is for his life.
24 Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth.
25 Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths.
26 For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her.
27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.
@Red Pill Latecomer – Like one of comment said, the idea that “men, after a couple of knock-backs, will shrivel up” only makes sense if one ignores the fact that men have been getting “knocked back” on a fairly regular basis since adolescence, and even the strongest man can only take so many punches to the face. Women aren’t “better at brushing themselves off”, they’ve just put nothing at risk, so what’s to worry? On to the next sucker!
@GirlFielf
The problem I’ve found is that there’s really no alternative to wading out in the dating market if you aren’t someone with “connections”. I don’t have an extended family to rely on, or deep roots in a community to use. So trawling through the open market is the choice available. The red pill gives me a better handle on the weather, and I get a better boat and hooks, but I’ve still got to head out to sea to catch fish.
@Girlfielf,
Maybe you should do a better job selecting those you date. It sounds like the target pool is focused on tingles, not responsibility.
Well, it’s not exactly where are all the good women, but the Daily Mail has a piece that has my liberal female friend in the UK and her friends all up in arms.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4994118/Women-destroying-marriage.html
Cunts are gonna cunt.
Peter Lloyd sadly isn’t taken seriously in the UK media. When he is on the BCC or related types of shows no one ever listens to him, and they write him off.
Guy has got some killer style I will admit. When I go to the UK in 2019 for three weeks, one of my goals is to meet him, get in the studio audience of the “Jeremy Kyle Show” and have a tour of Abbey Road Studios
That’s actually the hookup scene…actual dating with an intention to find a spouse has almost gone by the wayside because of the hookup scene where people just look for thots or emotional basketcases.
I wouldn’t want to wade in that pond…lots of algae, snakes, and snapping turtles.
And I’d just retort…so. If I was a woman and saw what happens to a man in the marriage when the state gets involved, I’d be up in arms that more men don’t want to sign up for a lifetime of misery to make my dreams come true. But being a man and what he points out is very true (also happened to members of my family who were divorced)…what incintive does a man have to get into a civil marriage?
That said…being a Catholic and understanding the Sacrament of Matrimony when God is in the marriage for both parties, the better chance it has (not foolproof, just a generalization). Secular civil marriage however is Russian Roulette for men.
Follow these lies and you’ll have three supermodel ninja wives who just can’t wait to submit to you.
@davidtaylor: “Lest strangers be filled with thy wealth; and thy labours be in the house of a stranger”
The globalism connection.
Happy vacation Dalrock. In the meantime, does anyone have an opinion about how complementarian theology leads to rape?
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousbench/2017/04/is-complementarian-theology-abusive-to-women/
this is not surprising
so many godly men live like this.
I pointed out at church the other week that the fact that men are more domestic now is evidence that wives are lazier and less supportive.
that did not go down well.
There is this desire to get men to submit to women and their wives
Why?
If blaming men generally for rape fails, then another approach seems to be to blame it on some Biblical theology. In this case, complementarianism. For another example, see Sam Powell’s blog post Sola Fide and Assault where he says:
The patheos page links to Does teaching submission encourage abuse?, where Carol Howard Merritt states:
I am amused to find that complementarianism is reviled theologically from two sides: Those who find it wrong because it is much too weak, and those who find it wrong because it is far too strong.
It needs to die a horrible death. You can never make friends with feminists, they will always find you at fault. Complementarianism was just a futile attempt at buying Christian feminists and is woefully at odds with the authority of the husband within is own home.
Dalrock, I would like to know exactly what you think is wrong with the video. In particular, do you believe, contrary to what the video says, that woman should be literally silent in church (no singing hymns or in the choir, making announcements, reading scripture, etc.), that they should not teach children’s Sunday School or other women and/or that they cannot lead others to Christ. Exactly what interpretation errors does the video make?
Yggdrasil-
I wonder what the motivation is for the “ankle biters” as Dalrock has so elegantly described them
to miss this quote from the OP:
“The underlying sentiment is one of theological obedience to women and feminism.”
This is what is specifically objectionable in the video. It is quite explicitly spelled out in the post.
It takes a super high level of obtuse to miss it, and then snarkily try to hide it.
A man preparing his weekly sermon on obedience cringing in fear of his wife while she looks over his shoulder is an image that should be disturbing to all Christians, of all faith traditions (I am
Orthodox) across all cultures and time.
This all makes me very sad.
What are we suppose to do then?….If we want sex, don’t we have to bow down and make our women happy?….They hold all the power, and society bolsters and supports the power women have over men
I want to go the biblical way and have women be submissive but no woman in the west is ok with that, i feel so trapped
It’s not a joke, happy wife=happy life, as she will make your life a living hell if you fail to do what she says and please her
what am I missing here?….does anyone in here know of some practical things I can do that will ensure I’m not a flippin walkover
Just starting out on the red pill thing guys…It’s not looking good for me
@bdash777
”There is this desire to get men to submit to women and their wives Why?”
Because the opposite of that is ”abuse” search up “Duluth Model” Satan loves to present false alternatives. Its like the only alternatives are either male tyranny or female rebellion. Both rebellions against God yet those 2 positions are in opposition to each other. But really both attacks on real God ordained Patriarchy as he intended it.
A few things:
Faith in God’s Word, what’s in her heart (feminist or submits to God’s word), is she on birth control or not….
If a woman is that controlled by her feelings that much she’ll make your life hell if she’s not happy, she’s childish and not good marriage material.
Continuing in that vein, it is important to recognize that there is a severe shortage of “wifeable” women. The competition for those few who will make good wives is extreme. The overwhelming majority of men simply won’t be able to get one. Accepting this fact is an important step. Acceptance makes it possible to deal with the situation in a constructive way rather than continuing to tilt at windmills.
“I want to go the biblical way and have women be submissive but no woman in the west is ok with that, i feel so trapped”
This is true, and won’t change any time soon. It doesn’t mean that biblical marriage is no longer the ideal, it simply means we all have to adapt to the reality and find wholesome and biblically-sound ways of dealing with the reality we live in.
The worst part is supposed Christian pastors trying to force feed the feminist zeitgeist into Scripture for marriage rather than having faith in the Word of God.
Christ and his church has worked for 2000 years…feminist ideals lead to a 50% divorce rate and 70% of the time the woman initiates it.
It takes a super high level of obtuse to miss it, and then snarkily try to hide it.
Concern-troll variant: “It’s not that I disagree, I just wanna understaaaaaaaaaaaaaand.”
kryptonian51 @ October 23, 2017 at 10:43 pm:
“This all makes me very sad.”
This will pass. The game is not what you were told it was; therefore, there will be an adjustment period.
“I want to go the biblical way and have women be submissive but no woman in the west is ok with that, i feel so trapped”
This won’t pass. Your three options: check out from women/society, reject Christ for sexual access or gamble everything on your skill with female nature. The first is hormonally impossible, the second will give you herpes and the third will risk your future childrens’ lives in addition to yours.
You deserve a better choice but it isn’t coming.
It’s more gambling on a system that promotes, encourages, and brainwashes the worst of female nature as normal. It’s not flesh and blood we are fighting but the dark powers of the world and evil spiritual forces.
Discernment of the women is key. Along with understanding there’s going to be serpents tempting her all the time…pray for your future wife that she follows God’s will.
Dear Earl et. al.:
It’s important to note that even with all the insane entitlements and enticements, most women who marry will stay married (the divorce rate for first marriages has never hit 50 percent). Even so, I agree with y’all. There are tons of good tips right here on Dalrock for young brothers who want to vet a prospective wife. The risks are great, but the rewards are there, and for those who are inclined to religion, the bargain must be worth it.
That is exactly right. Additionally, always have a backup plan. Stash some of your wealth in places not easily found. Make friends with your wife’s father and grandfather (they know her tricks much better than you ever will). Have a place to jam to the minute she flips out, and let it be known that there will be no second chances (thanks to the Duluth model, there can’t be). Be prepared to live a very happy life, with or without her… and don’t just tell her such things, let her see that you are prepared, at any minute, to lose her and go on with a minimum of hassle.
Boxer
earlthomas786 @ 1:52 pm:
“Discernment of the women is key.”
No. It is a gamble, a wager upon an uncertain outcome. You may as well claim the existence of soul mates as claim that the key to a stable marriage is simply finding “a good one”. Control for as many factors as you can, there will always be more factors outside your control. Not least being the government offering bounties for your wife to falsely accuse you.
God will neither ensure your marriage nor protect your children. There are now millions of examples of this. Prayer is useless as a means to fidelity. You cannot pray away your spouse’s free will.
The key to a stable marriage is that it is God centered. That’s the ‘soul mate’. Discernment of a woman is her scale of following God’s will or her own (aka listening to the serpent).
Millions of examples of a God centered marriage falls apart in divorce? I’d submit most of your divorce cases is the inversion of how God created marriage.
Do you pray?
“The key to a stable marriage is that it is God centered.”
If this was true then all non-Christian marriages would end in divorce. The key is both parties either wanting the marriage to endure and/or not being permitted to leave. Belief in Christ is necessary for salvation but not morality. This is straight from Genesis 3 and Romans 2.
“Do you pray?”
Yes but not often for favors. I’ve learned by praying for peoples’ salvation that prayer is not the way to conform reality to my wishes.
Well why not pray for your future wife’s salvation? Besides I never said pray that she has fidelity to you in marriage…I said pray that she follows God’s will.
I was talking stability in a marriage, not divorce…what is the source of stability in a non-Christian marriage?
“Besides I never said pray that she has fidelity to you in marriage…I said pray that she follows God’s will.”
“I was talking stability in a marriage, not divorce”
Are these different topics? I thought you were talking about using discernment and prayer to have a successful marriage, and both discernment and prayer have obviously done nothing to prevent the failure rate inside the Church from being as high as the failure rate outside the Church.
Because God provides no guarantees of success, marriage is a gamble. One with very bad odds today.
“Well why not pray for your future wife’s salvation?”
Y’know, I actually did back when I was a lovesick teenager. Today, I pray thanks to God that the fat, tatted thot never found me. That makes me less inclined to pray for the next person’s salvation. Maybe I’ll just let God decide for Himself who He wants to have around for eternity.
But what percentage of marriages that do not end in divorce are good marriages?
How do you define “good”? Is it based on the level of happyness?
‘Today, I pray thanks to God that the fat, tatted thot never found me.’
The Lord’s plans are for your benefit. No man benefits by being in a marriage with that.
I’ve met plenty of men who chose to work late as a way of avoiding the wifey.
No man benefits by being in a marriage with that.
Indeed. Take it from one who survived a quarter-century sentence: there are far worse fates than being alone.
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A ‘good marriage’ for a man would be: ease of functioning, minimal nagging, a healthy temperament in his wife, a level of contentment, food on the dinner table, frequent sex, more doing and less whining.
Everything is based off a level of happiness but contentment is far more stable and actually achievable in the long run.
I don’t know why you asked such a loaded question but me thinks you were trying to create a parallel to the narcissism seen in the millions of women who divorce per reasons of unhappiness. Doesn’t fly, most people want a good marriage and it’s best to be in one. However, most men don’t end up in such marriages but still silently go about their daily lives without divorcing. This in no way means other men should strive to be in such horror show.
@earlthomas786
I’m finding most women I know have no interest in “faith in God’s word” because it tells them to submit to their husbands in EVERYTHING, and the modern churchian woman, believer/unbeliever has no interest whatsoever in obeying God in that matter….They think it’s tantamount to slavery
“If a woman is that controlled by her feelings”…….Is there any woman that is not controlled by her feelings?….so I’m basically back to square one
But thanks for the input though
@King Alfred
I think your post has hit the proverbial nail on the head….There literally is no wifeable women left, especially in the West, and acceptance of that fact releases you to seek other alternatives
@gunnerq
Though true, your advice is not very optimistic!
There are levels…there’s the BPD type women and there’s the ones who are emotionally mature. Most aren’t mature because they believe the lies this society tells them…it keeps them childish.
There literally is no wifeable women left, especially in the West, and acceptance of that fact releases you to seek other alternatives
There are NOT literally no marriageable* women in the West. There ARE a few (as in VERY, VERY few), but they are so rare, statistically speaking, as to be for all practical purposes non-existent. The odds are almost ZE-RO of any man finding one while on a quest. If he should find one, he’ll stumble upon her accidentally. Not rosy odds of success, any way you look at it.
IOW, your “literally” here is figurative, but does convey a truth.
(* Although it is really unnecessary to state this for the regular RP readers here, I’ll point out that “marriageable”/”wifeable” means complete different things to men than it does to women. To a man, a “marriageable” woman is a virgin [or N=1, to be charitable] who is reasonably physically fit, non-contentious, respectful, loyal, responsible, and submissive to her husband. To a Western woman, “marriageable” simply means she’s [finally] ready to settle after years on the carousel and, gotdammit, the man she picks had better be ready to marry her NOW!)
and acceptance of that fact releases you to seek other alternatives
1. Get a passport.
2. Become fluent in at least two foreign languages (the optimal “short list” of these includes Spanish, Russian, and Chinese. Tagalog, Korean, Thai, Portuguese, and French are also useful).
3. Start traveling.
I do believe that a woman can change. I know a woman who was an addict. Went through The Salvation Army’s adult rehab program. She became saved, donned the Uniform and has changed everything about herself. She married several years ago. It was spectacular to witness the change from when she first arrived off the street addicted to meth, to a few years later. She “repented” and never looked back, and she got off meth in time before it really ravaged her looks / appearance. I tried to make a “go” for her, but she just wanted to be ‘friends’ only. She’s doing great and she’s a good wife. Christ said that “you will know them by their fruit”
The power of true repentance, and “turning away” from a past is something indeed from God. Yes, it does happen…..and yes, it is indeed rare!
No argument from me… Only a reminder that past performance is a reliable indicator of events-to-come. A reformed drug addict, alcoholic, prostitute, etc. has a much higher likelihood of backsliding than someone who has done none of those things does in adopting them.
In a saner world, without the threatpoint of the divorce courts, a better case could be made for forgetfulness after forgiveness, but with so much to lose, why bother with a woman like this?
Everyone should seek repentance because that establishes the relationship with God again.
Doesn’t mean I have to marry the woman with a past like that.