Last week I linked to a post by the complementarian group Authentic Manhood in in What was Adam’s Sin? It turns out that this group has hired Sheila Gregoire to help teach you how to be a man. Who better than a woman’s studies major to teach you about the roles in marriage?
In this release from 33 The Series, A Man and His Marriage, marriage experts Paul Tripp and Sheila Wray Gregoire along with our 33 The Series presenters, tackle head-on some of the key issues in marriage and show that as we learn to embrace God’s plan for marriage, a wonderful thing happens. We become both more holy and more happy.
As long time readers will remember, Gregoire teaches women that submission in marriage means the wife gives her husband lists of chores to do around the house. In her book To Love, Honor, and Vacuum: When You Feel More Like a Maid Than a Wife and Mother. Gregoire describes her husband as he twirls around the house doing as she bids:
My husband is motivated by lists. If I just tell him I would like him to help clean up after dinner, he doesn’t know what to do. But if there is a list of daily and weekly chores on the fridge, and he can see what is left to be done, he’s like a Tasmanian devil whirling around the house, cleaning.
Nothing says authentic manhood better than twirling around the house!
This work of art seems appropriate somehow.
[D: Hilarious!]
Anecdotal, but I’ve met more than one woman who confessed they became much humbler and submissive after following Gregoire’s advice. This is the condition of modern US Christian marriages.
“Nothing says authentic manhood better than twirling around the house.”
Twirling!
Flitting!
Sashaying!
Skipping!
U huh…….
mgtowhorseman is clearly not man enough to sashay.
It turns out that this group has hired Sheila Gregoire to help teach you how to be a man.
Hired? For money? That sucks.
Sheila ‘Woodchuck’ Gregoire is almost as bad as a male cuckservative in her desire to see innocent men die in a shipwreck even if that won’t save additional women (they shouldn’t even if it would, but these people want men to due just for entertainment).
Pickup artistry and game gets mixed reactions around these parts, but I contend that most men would be far better off learning pickup, and spending a season walking up to strange women in awkward social settings than anything they’re ever going to learn from Sluttery Gregoire.
Whenever I read the name Sheila Gregoire in your posts, Dalrock, I am automatically reminded of the uninviting, defended beaches of Normandy.
You know, the barbed wire, machine gun emplacements, artillery casemates, those things made of rails stuck up to stop boats…
I can’t help it. It’s Freudian and Pavlovian.
Off topic alert. Meanwhile here in Australia, you may have heard that our former Deputy Prime Minister, Barnaby Joyce, has been forced to resign due to an affair with one of his staff. She is expecting a baby. He is not even sure it is his.
The Press has pilloried him, and arguably rightly. Yet they seem to have left out the fact that it takes two for the proverbial tango, and that Barnaby’s wife refused him sex for 5 years.
I once would have looked at adultery with hard eyes. Yet, post Red Pill,
I can see the nuances in this.
His wife is a bitch.
And who better to teach men how to be better men than a….woman? What with all her years of experience as a man and all.
It boggles the mind how men just line up for stuff like this instead of ridiculing the very idea of women teaching men about being a man.
A group of guys here at my office are going thru the 33 The Series this spring. They seem to be enjoying it, but this type of stuff makes me really question the value of what they are learning.
@Spike
I too used to come down harshly on men who cheated on or left their wives. However, exposure to the Red Pill and my own life experience has led me to be more understanding and less condemning when men cheat on and/or leave their wives. There is no telling what kind of hell she may have been putting him through to make those options seem so appealing. One always has to wonder if his wife was withholding sex or was an insufferable nag or bitch and the husband just couldn’t take it anymore.
It makes people very uncomfortable when you refuse to condemn the man and then question the culpability of the woman.
@Spike
Ha! Me too.
@Gage
Skip to the 21 min mark in the video in the Authentic Manhood page I linked to in the OP. It is a preview of the series. At the 21 min mark they define three models of marriage. The first is what they call traditional marriage, and they explain that it is where brutish men abuse women. The second is a great improvement, the egalitarian marriage. But the best of all is the complementarian 99.999% servant .001% leader model, which builds on the great improvements of egalitarian marriage.
This is their core teaching. The rest is just details.
Ot: I listen to Doug Wilson’s plodcast, and have been getting progressively more exasperated with his marriage stuff (ok, and his political and other stuff, too) as time goes by. The man can turn a clever phrase when he writes, and i enjoy that enough to overlook a lot, but his speaking style is very meh. Anyhow, I’m sure you’ll be interested in his opinion of Kendrick brothers movies today. Oh, dear. I couldn’t even stand to skip to the good parts like i usually do. Once you’ve seen the rot. You really can’t unsee it. And one of the influential ladies in my church is talking up Warroom. And lots of the ladies have been listening to Beth Moore. I’m not influential at all, being a poorly spoken, shy person, so i seriously don’t know what, or if there is anything, i can say to turn things straight. (Nobody took up wearing a head-covering when i did, for instance. Nobody much wants to talk about it, i guess. Interestingly, it was Doug Wilson’s argument against wearing a covering a while back that convinced me that I should definitely be doing that. He was very obviously arguing with the text, rather than from it. Gave me a rash, it rubbed me so wrong.) Anyway, you might enjoy listening to this one. Or not. Certainly not, actually, but it confirms a lot that you’ve said here.
Pickup artistry and game gets mixed reactions around these parts, but I contend that most men would be far better off learning pickup, and spending a season walking up to strange women in awkward social settings than anything they’re ever going to learn from Sluttery Gregoire.
Well, yes. There are many things better than ‘Woodchuck’ Gregoire that are still less worthwhile than PUA.
It is too bad that Badgerhut deleted his site, because he spoke of the value of the 100 Approach Challenge. Just do 100 (daytime) approaches, and see what happens. Only then, decide if you want to pursue Game further.
Dalrock said :
Who better than a woman’s studies major
Correction. She has a Master’s Degree. That indicates more hardcore material and a greater commitment to the topic. Most undergrads don’t go on the pursue a Master’s Degree in the same field.
She is hard core.
For those who need a visual reference :
Anon…
Please, for the love of all that’s holy, provide a trigger warning next time you pull a stunt like that!
stickdude90,
Remember that this is a professional shot used for promotional purposes, so it is much *better* than reality.
This is where the ‘Woodchuck’ nickname comes from. But the photo above also reminds me of this :
https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/d6afa844023f50468ee77a5b9a0a3aae?width=650
Serendipitous post, allowing me to share this recent discovery, which is no doubt already known to denizens of the sphere but it’s new to me.
I went to a store called Bed, Bath, and Beyond. I’ve been there before but everything looks different after you’ve been reading Dalrock, even stores. Among the greeting cards was one featuring this cover photo:
Open it to read that the key to a good marriage is knowing where you stand!
P.S. The photo used on the card depicts a wedding cake statue that can be used to show the entire wedding party and invited guests – what? – that the happy couple has a great sense of humor? Yeah, that’s the ticket.
@Anon
That is NOT Okay!
Yes, you could go on about the teeeeeth (on purpose), and the nose, and the hair, but it’s the eyes that haunt me…. And I hear a sharp chittering sound coming from somewhere, even though my speakers are off.
Wait, there is more! When she talks to her flock, she…..talks!
(trigger warning)
I don’t see her name anywhere on the Authentic Manhood website. Is she still with them?
Spike,
The Bible defines adultery as:
1. A married or betrothed woman having sex with a man other than her husband
2. A man having sex with another man’s wife
A married man having sex with a single woman is not adultery.
(But it generally is a bad idea)
Getalonghome
Please don’t lose heart and dispair. Like you, my wife is not an outspoken public speaker hell bent on turning anyone around with words.
She is sweet, and friendly with all the ladies (and the gentleman for the matter). She is charming in that way— by being quiet but empathic.
Our priest has a rule that women should not approach the chalice without a head covering, but he does not really enforce it.
Mychael now wears one for the entire liturgy because I instructed her to.
And slowly, one by one we are seeing more of them at least during communion.
This has taken about a year to take hold. And Mychael refuses to believe it is related to her being the only one for a while. I know better.
Wear the head covering because it is the right thing to do. It matters:
https://ljubomirfarms.wordpress.com/2018/03/04/churching-of-the-mother-and-child-after-40-days/
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Thanks so much, Scott. That really helps give me hope. And congratulations to you and Mychael!
Head covering? Will be one of the “end game” mission objectives for me in my marriage. Have been a Christian for the better part of two decades and I have never seen one being worn by a woman in the sanctuary. If I were to bring this up in a small group discussion, I’d probably see eyes the size of a dinner plate all around the room, and not a little consternation and then displeasure from the womenfolk. Will probably engage in a short debate about culture and context before being labeled a heretic troublemaker. Heh.
Wife told me last night that her friends wanted to send their husbands to me for “Husbands 101”*. I reminded her that her friends didn’t realise that their husbands would have been putting in loads of effort in their marriages and families (cited some examples of what their husbands did for their families) I explained that what their husbands were doing were just not what they think they wanted ideally or expected.
Two conclusions:
a. Women talk amongst themselves about their husbands. More than the men realise themselves.
b. More often than not, they are oblivious to the stuff their husbands do for them. It’ll never be enough.
* Some time in the far future, I will have to slip in a teaching point about walking away from gossip, especially when they are griping about husbands.
@Choking on red pills
the only reason those wives think that is because you do 80 percent of the domestic helpmeet role and you defer to your wife in everything….
they like your idea of love, feminist gender flipping .
not the biblical idea of love,where men love their wives by leading and being men
i bet not a single one of those women really care for or support theirhusbands
Yeah, women instructing men on what is good.
Reminds me of the 1970’s when my dad and uncles all got perms in isles of straight, sparse, gray hair floating in the seas of their male-patterned baldness, and donned polyester leisure suits as their normal out-of-house and night-on-the-town garb. All because he and they listened to my mom and aunts teaching them what “good” style was. Occasionally I come across some of those cringe-worthy pictures in old boxes.
I learned a sharp lesson from that. I noticed that there were some men who refused to listen to women who presumed to tell men how to dress. And they, knowing how men should dress, dressed like men, in styles that are stylish even today. But whither the leisure suit?
And maybe, someday, whither the cucked husband?
Spike says:
March 28, 2018 at 3:52 pm
“Off topic alert. Meanwhile here in Australia, you may have heard that our former Deputy Prime Minister, Barnaby Joyce, has been forced to resign due to an affair with one of his staff. She is expecting a baby. He is not even sure it is his.
The Press has pilloried him, and arguably rightly. Yet they seem to have left out the fact that it takes two for the proverbial tango, and that Barnaby’s wife refused him sex for 5 years.
I once would have looked at adultery with hard eyes. Yet, post Red Pill,
I can see the nuances in this.
His wife is a bitch.”
Well said. I would have liked for him, when asked about the whole thing to have responded thusly:
“My estranged wife broke up with me romantically five years ago. Those of you listening, how long after a boyfriend/girlfriend breaks up with you before you feel ethically able to see someone else? I bet there aren’t two people in this room that would answer that question with a figure longer than five years.”
bdash77:
I am learning as much as I can, the best I can in a society that is feminist and hostile to masculinity, male headship in families. Eradicating and unraveling blue pill stuff will be a lifelong process. (And 80% of the housework is because I get more done in a shorter span of time and I prefer to have a clean home. Am hoping that when our newborn comes, she can pick up a bit more of the work.)
chokingonredpills says:
March 28, 2018 at 8:27 pm
“Am hoping that when our newborn comes, she can pick up a bit more of the WORK.”
Re the last word in your post: I hope you were in jest, unless that is your code word for one of “watching Cable TV while you’re at work”, “spending hours daily on Facebook”, “playing Candy Crush or Angry Birds”, etc.
@Chokingonredpills
yup it is tough
I live in the most feminist country in the world
if a man has enough time to do his wifes tasks he is not working on his job or mission hard enough
most men prefer to have a clean house…. real men tell their wives to sort it out.
your sound quite whipped.
no it will only get worse after the baby…
your wife sounds lazy
Am hoping that when our newborn comes, she can pick up a bit more of the work.
LOL If you’re referring to the newborn picking up more of the work, it will take a while. If you’re referring to your wife picking up more of the work, it will not happen unless you make it happen.
Chokingonredpills
I would love to be a fly on the wall in the conversations my wife has with her female friends when I am not present, but at a certain point I have to take her word for it when she gives me the cliffs notes.
It is absolutely true they talk. And probably more than most husbands want to admit to themselves and about things we wish they wouldn’t.
My understanding is that Mychael tries her best to flee those conversations when they get weird (or become gripe sessions) –or–she tries to change the subject to something more constructive. Sometimes she gently nudges them in the direction of building up with a “I am sure there is something positive you can think of to say about him” kind of statement.
For the most part, when she tells me about this stuff what she reports is sadness that so many wives cannot bring themselves to build up their husbands who are not there to defend themselves. She says its like prying it out of them. Like a stinginess that can’t be budged.
I’m afraid the goofy-retarded-can’t do anything right-needs to be corrected–wouldn’t remember to tie his shoes if I didn’t tell him to caricature of the American dad has now entered the subconscious of us all. Mychael says the has to very deliberately decide to not participate daily, and this requires effort on her part.
Reminds me of when Bill Burr did a bit about women talking about how to be a man.
It would be like him telling women what to expect in their third trimester of pregnancy.
Also @ Anon
Thanks for the nightmare fuel. She has displaced Pennywise from the top of my scary list.
Bart,
A married man having sex with a single woman is not adultery.
If that single woman is a virgin. Otherwise, she is already joined to someone else, and is in fact their wife. And when the married man does have sex with her, he becomes joined to her also. But, let’s not get the polygamy proponents started again on this thread. Oh, and the recycled virgins, born again virgins, fixer upper virgins, and Cock challenged virgins don’t count!
Chockingonredpills-
Your wife needs to be told in no uncertain terms that absolutely no good can come from a bunch of women in a room comparing notes on their husbands.
I know its scary to say stuff like that to her. I know its dangerous. We have all read whats going in your home. I pray you have the courage to put a stop to it.
bdash77:
At the moment, she works longer hours than I do. So I am OK with doing most of the housework. And you are right, I will be tested on being a real man when she eventually becomes a stay-home mum.
As for her being lazy, I have a feeling that I would have to go through Proverbs 31 with her before someone does from the pulpit. Washing her in the Word is also a lifelong process.
Luke:
Women are big on being socially included and naturally curious about the lives of others. Facebook and Instagram meet both their needs. She’s pregnant now so I’ll cut her some slack.
BBC has a story about Britain’s first female bouncer:
http://www.bbc.com/news/av/embed/p062lf3l/43575005
@getalonghome
I’ve sat through many of Doug’s sermons and have always noticed this about him and the grip on his members. He, um, seems to always turn a few, um, clever phrases to the enjoyment and chuckles of his audience, which, um, indeed helps them to overlook a lot.
I have many relatives who still attend and consider him a riot. When I talk with them they always repeat his wit-isms, but can recall little about the substance the the sermon itself. Either he speaks confusingly over their heads (quite possible, considering him and them) or they just slip into neutral and enjoy the ride.
He does have charisma. And I too have enjoyed it. But it’s dangerous, believe me.
“most men would be far better off learning pickup than anything they’re ever going to learn from Gregoire”
Well, that’s a low bar to cross. It’s like saying “you’re better off being an alcoholic than a meth addict.”
Scott:
Thanks. I am her only source of “teaching” right now about marriage and being a Christian wife. There are no older women mentoring wives like what Paul described in Timothy in our church. And the issue of gossip has never been directly addressed from the pulpit. Maybe I might be deemed to passive about this but I reckon it will take time for me to nudge her towards the direction, i.e., where Mychael is.
Mychael:
Thanks. I will surely have my courage tested when the time comes. Have to find the right time to do it. I recognise that by putting a stop to that, I am helping other husbands.
The talking cunt is going to tell me how to be a man? And a Bitches Studies Major no less. Fuck off.
It boggles the mind how men just line up for stuff like this instead of ridiculing the very idea of women teaching men about being a man.
Men DO ridicule such shite. The geldings that populate your typical churchian franchise have been trained to look at it as their salvation.
Among the greeting cards was one featuring this cover photo:
Remember: the creators of those overpriced, obsolete pieces of garbage are overwhelmingly left-wing lesbian art majors.
SaltMark: “He does have charisma. And I too have enjoyed it. But it’s dangerous, believe me.”
Yes, I agree. I keep hoping he’ll do a complete turn-around and say “wow, i can’t believe how blind I’ve been to this. I repent! ”
But really? A guy that smart and capable of being spot-on and true to the Word when it serves his purposes probably already knows exactly how wrong he is, but doesn’t care. Very, very dangerous.
I once would have looked at adultery with hard eyes. Yet, post Red Pill,
I can see the nuances in this.
His wife is a bitch.”
Women like Mrs. Joyce are the reason why many societies have condoned polygyny, even the “soft” kind.
Sharkly,
You are of course correct about the “sex with a virgin thing”. It either creates, or requires (don’t want to get into it) marriage.
Not to promote polygamy, but the fact is the Bible treats it as marriage, not adultery/sexual immorality. (Bible doesn’t encourage it though)
Different issue, but has anybody noticed that Paul Tripp tries way too hard to be fashionable?
Honestly, I think his clothes, mustache, glasses, and sideburns look almost clownish. That seems like vanity to me (especially for a man of his age).
I should know. I’m a little vain myself. I’m in my 40s and am working hard at weightlifting to get jacked. I’m tired of being a wussy churchian wimp, but I’m also a little vain. At least my fashion sense is the traditional one for men.
wait
@chokingon redpill
your wife works and helps other men achieve their goals for longer hours than you
you support her by deferring to her and running the home
are you sure that you are not her wife?
Bottom line here is (the “red pill” truth) that for these “spiritual leaders” our overall marriage rate simply hasn’t declined far enough yet. Instead of trying to offer men some carrots to be better men and try to get married again, everyone (the church, the government, all of society) is doubling and tripling down on “the stick.” Shame on you guys, man up, MAN UP! Aren’t you listening, you need to man up and marry that slut and obey her! They have been trying this shaming tactic for upwards of a decade now, the whole time people began to notice just how few people bother to get married. Its not working. And it isn’t going to work.
There are two ways to fix this epidemic of a marriageless society: change divorce laws in 50 states such that “threatpoint” can no longer be invoked OR (and this would really be sad) if someone in authority in government came up with the bright idea that single men (if they aren’t married by some objective age) are “assigned” some woman to financially support for the rest of their life. Shame doesn’t get it done. MGTOWs are on to everyone.
Arranged marriage by the government. Yeah that would go over like a lead balloon.
But since the government has become the de facto male authority in a woman’s life…it wouldn’t surprise me.
I have a better idea than Ms Gregoire:
[img]http://www.thefashionablehousewife.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/77644134_housewifekitchenairbrush.jpg[/img]
Not marriage Earl. Just “assigned” a never-married-mom to support financially. He may not even get a chance to meet her.
You know, for the good of the country. Get with the program. 🙂
Well we do that already with welfare.
Welfare takes money out of EVERY man’s pocket. No, what I am talking about is a bachelor tax, a “penalty” levied specifically upon bachelors who have not “manned up” by a certain age and married a slut. The purpose of this law is not that the government would ever want to actually “collect” that tax. The purpose is to put single men “on the clock” such that they HAVE to get married and support a woman of THEIR choosing before the government has to step in and do it FOR THEM!
Assigning some woman to a single man to support. Now I know why they want to take the guns away first. No wonder Universities are a waste of taxpayer’s money. Why have Wymn’s studies and other basket weaving courses which a Marxism 101. To bad most sub-human resource departments are run by women or they would never get hired with gender studies on their resume.
Well Jack, there is marriage crisis you see. We have to get people married again. And far too many men are just living into the 40s (at home), in their parent’s basement all day, smoking grass, and masturbating to free high definition, on-line p0rn. And look at all the never-married-moms and all their unsupported alpha-thug-spawn! Look, just because she couldn’t help herself and she had to hop up and down on that guy’s d1ck, its not her fault. He just had too much swagger. And now dad is in prison. But look at all these hapless do-nothing beta males! Just assign them a never married mom to support by some objective birthday. You would see the marriage rate rise very quickly because…. single would be DESPERATE to avoid paying that bachelor tax.
Men are just nails. And everything is a hammer.
Or murders…that’s how it usually goes in socialism…even gynocentric socialism.
We have murders now. Suicide is murder is it not? We are burying 116 corpses a day from heroin/opioid over doses. Ohio is turning into a giant morgue.
When you don’t give men a reason to live, surely, they die.
My goodness: http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/detroit-woman-gives-birth-to-her-14th-child-from-14-different-fathers/
they started doing this in our church as well
training and encouraging men to be as publically domestic as possible
all it tells me is that such a man has a lazy wife
http://www.eacrossroads.com/2017/03/23/changing-diapers/
OMG :
A Christian cuck marries a slut who already has two children with two different men, and who then gets pregnant with a third man while married. He believes it was his duty to whiteknight for her.
Even after all of this, he still thinks he has to be a whiteknight to some degree ‘as a good Christian’.
@anon
omg modern men are so weak
Lesbian couple and six adopted kids plunge to death in van: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/28/six-children-feared-dead-after-suv-plunged-off-california-cliff-2-women-killed.html
Looks like murder/suicide, but the media is putting a nice face on it.
Investigators made a grim announcement Wednesday in the hunt for relatives after an SUV plummeted off a cliff in Northern California: six children were feared dead, along with two women. …
The sheriff said that nothing at this point indicates that the crash was intentional however investigators on the scene didn’t find any skid or brake marks in the road where the car went over.
Huh? If there were no skid or brake marks, that’s an indication (albeit not a certainty) the crash was intentional.
Child welfare officials made a recent visit to the residence, Waddell said. However, when the department later went to the home, they reportedly didn’t see any signs indicating trouble or violence. Investigators did not elaborate on that.
Neighbors of the family told The Associated Press they called child welfare officials as recently as this past Friday, fearing that one of the children was going hungry. Over the past week, Bruce and Dana DeKalb said Devonte Hart had been coming to their house asking for food.
The neighbors also recounted a night three months after the family moved in when one of the girls rang their doorbell at 1:30 a.m. Bruce DeKalb said she “was at our door in a blanket saying we need to protect her. She said they were abusing her.”
Online court records obtained by The Associated Press showed that Sarah Hart pleaded guilty in 2011 to a domestic assault charge in Minnesota. Following her plea, a charge for malicious punishment of a child reportedly was dismissed.
Guess child services wanted to give lesbian parents the benefit of the doubt. I doubt a white hetero father would have been allowed to keep his adopted kids after all of the above
“You would see the marriage rate rise very quickly because…. single would be DESPERATE to avoid paying that bachelor tax.”
“Or murders…that’s how it usually goes in socialism…even gynocentric socialism.”
Nah, not so much. Use Occam’s Razor here. Plan A is more likely to be producing (working) less, working in the underground economy (for cash, so it’s not taxable/garnishable), emigration for a crucial (higher-skilled) few, more barter, etc. Some would opt for property crime (larceny/burglary) if they were facing 90+ percent taxation. Only if they could not escape nor survive at all would most men start to seriously consider murder (but, then they often would, of course).
“Huh? If there were no skid or brake marks, that’s an indication (albeit not a certainty) the crash was intentional.”
Exactly. Without knowing more, no skid marks hardly rules out falling asleep at the wheel, a major distraction (wasp flies in the window and stings driver, sudden severe sneezing/coughing fit, epileptic seizure, etc.), and such as causes. That said, I’m saddened about the kids (if Americans or at least Westerners), but applaud hearing that two fewer lesbians are soiling the world with their presence, especially ones that apparently weren’t minimally doing well by minor children in their care.
I once tried to refute some of Gregoire’s incoherent statements, but of course my comment was refused at her blog. She is not interested in critical reflections. I have no respect for such people.
Can’t and will never work. They could try it but by that time society will be finished. They don’t have the stomach for it. Jailing men? Sure, they could try that as well and will find themselves spending more money keeping the men in prison than if they just left them out. It’s a no win situation… MGTOW has figured out their weakness. Starve the beast, file down its teeth and mock it, endlessly.
Men will simply marry themselves or a friend…. you don’t want to offend the gays now do you? Or become a masculine presenting transgendered lesbian. They made the rules and they will die by them. Men will find loopholes and the government will spend endless amounts of money enforcing the law. They will bankrupt themselves quicker by doing it than by leaving well enough alone.
I would really enjoy seeing them try though because by doing so they will have admitted that women are 100% useless.
Oh hell, I dare the government to try. I want them to, please, please try it Mr Government man listening in. Go tell you superiors now!
Google Shelia’s husband…you won’t be surprised.
I’m not influential at all, being a poorly spoken, shy person, so i seriously don’t know what, or if there is anything, i can say to turn things straight.
Keep being obedient, and pray. Be faithful in the small things.
Oh, and an interesting piece
http://stuartschneiderman.blogspot.com/2018/03/the-case-of-cheating-girlfriend.html
Let’s see some advertising
http://sheilawraygregoire.com/about-sheila/
“I also keynote at women’s retreats, and have spoken at denominational conventions for most major denominations in North America, including Wesleyan, Methodist, Alliance, Christian Reformed, Fellowship Baptist, Convention Baptist, Anglican, and more.”
OK, so many churches are into her message.
“I was raised in Toronto by an amazing single mother”
Uh oh…
“But growing up without my dad still left some major holes in my heart that marriage didn’t heal automatically.”
I can understand that.
http://sheilawraygregoire.com/marriage-events-keith-and-sheila-together/
“Sheila is an award-winning marriage author, speaker and blogger, and Keith Gregoire is a pediatrician. Together, they’ve been speaking at marriage conferences since 2004.”
“Keith and Sheila are wonderful teachers on marriage and family. They teach Christian principles with wisdom, humour and plenty of personal anecdotes. You feel that you’ve been invited into their lives.”
“Sheila, the author of The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex, is best known for speaking and writing about sex. And when she does her women’s talk on sex, churches often ask, “I wish our men could hear this, too!””
Well if we take this particular husband as a “Beta” and he is running “provider game” a list of chores is going to go over very well with him. He has been told what to do to make her “happy.” If his completing the chores does in fact make her “happy” and gets him at least some starfish sex or some silence to sit and watch the game or perhaps wears him out completely and he’s too tired to annoy her asking for sex… well I’m sure that’s going to keep the peace for a bit.
@ rudolph
no they are not allowed to watch the game
that would be seen as selfish
One of my friends never attended church or bible study because he had to care for the baby, apparently his wife needed time away.
his other male daddy friends would teach him this äs well.
men are not allowed to read a book or do anything else if at the same time the wife is busy caring for the home or children, they have to be domestic.
men are not allowed to go for movies etc but the wives are ( men get adult time at work you see)
I told them that their marriages were essentially gay and homo, no real difference between mom and dad and that their children will grow up thinking gender is irrelevant.
I also said their wives were lazy
they told me that I was not saved.
@Bart:
Spike,
The Bible defines adultery as:
1. A married or betrothed woman having sex with a man other than her husband
2. A man having sex with another man’s wife
A married man having sex with a single woman is not adultery.
(But it generally is a bad idea)
If you can’t quote the relevant Bible passages to support your assertions, then your claims are not worth more than Doug Wilson’s heresies.
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isa 8:20 (KJV)
Scriptures made it clear that a married man merely looking at another woman lustfully (marital status of the woman is irrelevant) is adultery.
Now, a misguided, misinformed and ignorant bible “teacher” would tell us that A married man having sex with a single woman is not adultery? Who does he think are on this forum? Ignoramuses?
Matt 5:27-28 (KJV)
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Off topic: Sweden is even crazier than I realized.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/gender-differences-children-swedish-pre-school-social-engineering/
“Forcing small boys to massage each others’ feet — as the Swedish school does — does nothing but promote puzzlement among children. It certainly doesn’t teach little boys to become responsible men. It teaches them to become bizarre. And forcing small girls to open windows and scream out of them doesn’t teach them to become responsible women. It teaches them to behave like obnoxious brats. The Times tells the story of one girl whom teachers trained to scream at the top of her lungs when challenged (my four-year-old girl needs no training, it should be noted). When the girl was sent home, she was rude, messy, and loud. ‘The girl’s parents were less than delighted’, one teacher reported. But parents matter little here. The teacher calmly explained, ‘This is what we do here, and we are not going to stop it’.
Ironically, all of this idiocy is pursued in order to supposedly end gender stereotyping on behalf of advocates who say that gender is a social construct. But those same advocates will then proclaim that transgender children know that they are members of the opposite gender from childhood.” ~ Ben Shapiro
Sweden is deliberately making its boys effeminate, and its girls into harpies.
@Bart,
If you have nothing useful to say, simply read the contributions of others, and please stop spreading your lies here, because no one here is interested in reading them.
RPL,
The situation you note may truly have been bad, but watch trusting claims by child welfare. Someone had CPS believing we had not been feeding our children enough, even though we had plenty of food available. (Just not the food my kids always wanted – not as much junk food, for example.)
CPS is almost always evil and inherently untrustworthy.
“I was raised in Toronto by an amazing single mother”
Raised in Toronto. Even if she was raised in an intact family, that would raise red flags.
@oscar
how is that any different to christian pastors forcing men to do laundry, cook and change diapers from the pulpit to show true love for their wives….
true love used to be working hard protecting etc
now it is all feminised
Matthew 5:28 contradicts this claim
Why does this post remind me of this song?
@Dave – Looking at another “woman” can also be translated from the Greek as another “wife.” Thus, Jesus was merely restating the commandment about coveting another man’s wife. “Coveting” and “adultery” are both big ol’ sins.
@bdash
This was actually a hard one for me to break for a while. And my wife ran interference on it by staying perpetually angry all weekend long if I sat down and enjoyed myself. What finally got it for me was two things. 1. She was never happy with anything no matter how hard I worked or how much I did, so what was the point? 2. She was sleeping until 7:30-8:00 every day while I was getting up between four and five, leaving the house, and not coming home until 4:30-5. Add to that for three years we didn’t have children while I was working Navy hours and one day in the near future all the kids will be out of the house while I’m still working 40+ hours a week.
I got tired of the noise and once I started pushing back, I can now enjoy my weekends at peace. Because if I’m not happy, I promise you, I’m going to make everyone miserable.
@anon
The internet is forever. Here is an archived copy of the Badgerhut 100 approach challenge.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160103073558/https://badgerhut.wordpress.com/2012/03/31/the-100-approach-challenge/
@ bdash77 says:
March 29, 2018 at 9:03 am
“how is that any different to christian pastors forcing men to do laundry, cook and change diapers from the pulpit to show true love for their wives….
true love used to be working hard protecting etc
now it is all feminised”
For one thing, a man hearing that at church can say “that’s a load of crap” and either find a different church, or ignore the teaching. A toddler can’t do that.
Before you put his balls in your purse, you’ve got to hold them like THIS….
bdash77, are you in New Zealand? Not trying to doxx you, but trying to understand what you are seeing.
@bdash77 re: selfish
I was more speaking to this particular man and wife situation or some similar niche cases. Otherwise totally agree with you. I wouldn’t entirely dismiss the carrot of some time for himself if he gets things done fast enough though.
The thing with the list is it’s going to be like https://therationalmale.com/2012/08/22/just-get-it/ isn’t it? As a man you’re supposed to just get what your chores are around the house and just get them done to excess of her expectations without having all of it spelled out for you. She’ll tire of making the lists I suspect.
That’s probably the other thing with the list working for her. She can let her hamster spin in its wheel and convince herself that she isn’t being a nag and that her husband “just gets it” while simultaneously stoking her own ego about how she has it all figured out.
Sweden is deliberately making its boys effeminate, and its girls into harpies.
How do you get there, from here?
The same way we’re doing it, I suppose.
@anonymous reader
how did you guess
Dave,
I seem to have offended you. Your response was quite uncharitable, saying that I “lie”, and that I am “misguided, misinformed and ignorant”. Unfortunately, you are the one who does not understand God’s Law regarding the issue of adultery.
I understand the sentiment behind your emotional outburst. Sometimes God’s Word is hard to hear, especially when it challenges our deeply cherished cultural traditions, and established religious beliefs. Yet, God is God, and the Bible is His written Word. God, and His Word are our ultimate authority.
You asked for Scriptural support for my statement. Here it is.
Most modern people, and religious institutions, define adultery something like this:
“Any sexual relations outside of marriage by either partner”.
The Bible clearly defines it very differently. The Biblical definition of adultery is something more like this: “When a married or betrothed woman has sexual relations with a man other than her husband – or inversely stated – When a man has sexual relations with another man’s wife”.
The Hebrew word for adultery in the Ten Commandments and elsewhere is “na’aph”. The literal meaning of this word is “woman who breaks wedlock” (Strong’s Hebrew Lexicon word 5003). This word is used twenty-six times, in eleven Old Testament books. It is never used in reference to the marital status of the man. It is always used in reference to the marital status of the woman. No man with multiple wives is ever said to have committed adultery in regard to his practice of polygamy. Furthermore, the Bible never says that a man commits adultery against his wife by taking another in addition to her.
The commentators of the ESV study Bible clearly state this definition of adultery in their text note for Deuteronomy 5:18. There, they state that “This specific prohibition is against a man having sexual relations with a woman who is married to someone else,…”.
Below are a few passages that illustrate this point. Note that none of them refer to a married man having sex with a single woman/virgin. Instead, whenever a married man has sex with a virgin, or widow, she becomes his wife. An example of this is Jacob. He was married to Leah, and then he also married Rachel. The Bible calls both relationships marriage, and treats the offspring of both relationships as legitimate children. Another example is David marrying the widow Abigail, while already married to Michal and most likely Ahinoam. The Bible calls all of these unions marriages (plus David’s many other wives). The Bible treats all of them as lawful marriages. But, when David has sex with another man’s wife (Bathsheeba), the Bible clearly treats that as adultery. Sex with another man’s wife is an abomination.
“And you shall not lie sexually with your neighbor’s wife and so make yourself unclean with her.” (Lev. 18:20)
“…you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife,” (Exodus 20:17)
“If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.” (Lev. 20:10)
“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman. So you shall purge the evil from Israel. “If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor’s wife. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.”(Deuteronomy 22:22-24)
“So is he who goes in to his neighbor’s wife; none who touches her will go unpunished.” (Proverbs 6:29)
“For my husband is not at home; he has gone on a long journey;” (Proverbs 7:19) (Words of the adulterous woman)
“So you will be delivered from the forbidden woman, from the adulteress with her smooth words,
who forsakes the companion of her youth and forgets the covenant of her God;” (Proverbs 2:16-17)
“because they have done an outrageous thing in Israel, they have committed adultery with their neighbors’ wives,…” (Jeremiah 29:23)
“Adulterous wife, who receives strangers instead of her husband!” (Ezekiel 16:32)
“‘And you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.” (Deut. 5:21)
“Now therefore the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised me and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.’” (2nd Sam. 12:10)
This is what God said to David after he had violated Bathsheba, a married woman. Remember that God never said anything negative to David about the dozen or so other wives he had.
“But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night and said to him, “Behold, you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man’s wife.” (Genesis 20:3)
“How then can I do this great wickedness and sin against God?” (Genesis 39:9) Joseph to Potiphar’s wife
” … If any man’s wife goes astray and breaks faith with him, if a man lies with her sexually, and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband, and she is undetected though she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her, since she was not taken in the act,”(Numbers 5:12-13)
I encourage you to take a look at the entire lengthy passage about the adulterous wife found in Number 13:11-31. The passage repeatedly makes it absolutely clear that adultery is “when a woman has relations with a man other than her husband (or a man has relations with another man’s wife)”. There is no reciprocal law for the woman who suspects that her husband has another wife. There are no passages that state the inverse principle. Again, there is no passage where God calls polygamy a breaking faith, a going astray, a violation, or an unclean act.
The New Testament retains this same basic definition of adultery. In the book of Romans, the apostle Paul defines adultery exactly the same way as Moses and the Prophets.
For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress. (Romans 7:2-3)
Paul again tells us something very similar in 1st Thessalonians.
For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God; that no one transgress and wrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you. For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness. (1st Thess. 4:3-7)
Note that when Paul addresses the issue of sexual sin, that he frames it in the context of “wrong his brother”, and also tells us that the “the Lord is an avenger”. That is the exact same sense in which the Old Testament Law and historical narratives frame the issue. The husband has an absolute and inviolable right to the sexual exclusivity of his wife. If any other man has relations with his wife, then the man has been greatly wronged. God sees all things, knows all things, and will repay every evil deed.
Neither Christ, nor the Apostles ever define polygamy as adultery. Nor, does the Lord Jesus Christ cast aside the basic moral instructions of the Law of Moses.
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven”. (Matthew 5:17-19)
Dave,
You seem to be building your entire theology of adultery on a rather dubious English rendering of a single Greek word in Matt 5:27-28 (KJV).
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a WOMAN to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
In both ancient Greek and Hebrew, the word “wife”, “married woman”, and “woman in general” are the same words. The Greek word for woman/wife in Matt. 5:28 is used dozens of times in the New Testament. It is USUALLY translated WIFE (though sometimes translated woman). For example, the same word is also used in Matt. 5:30 and again in 5:31. In both of those instances, it is rendered “wife”.
I would argue that it should also be understood to mean “wife/married woman” here in verse 28. The Law and the Prophets consistently teach us that adultery is the violation of a married woman. Christ says that lusting after a “married woman/wife/woman” is “adultery of the heart”. It is most consistent with all of Scripture to understand Him to be referring to a married woman.
You say that a “married man” looking lustfully at “any woman” commits adultery in his heart.
The Lord Jesus Christ seems to say exactly the opposite. He seems to be saying that “any man, married or not”, who looks lustfully at a “married woman”, commits adultery with her in his heart.
This is a restatement of the 10th Commandment. “You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife”. Adultery is an abomination, and coveting is adultery of the heart.
People,
Please don’t jump on me. I am not advocating polygamy. I’m just being honest with the fact that the Bible treats it as marriage, rather than adultery, or sexual immorality.
@Dave – Looking at another “woman” can also be translated from the Greek as another “wife.” Thus, Jesus was merely restating the commandment about coveting another man’s wife. “Coveting” and “adultery” are both big ol’ sins.
Not necessarily. Christ meant exactly what the passage said: a woman.
The Greek term translated “woman” in the passage was γυνή (gynē), which means a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow, a wife, or of a betrothed woman.
It was translated as women more often than as a wife: as women129 times; as wife 92 times.
(Source: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G1135&t=KJV)
A married man who has sex with any other woman apart from his wife commits adultery. The woman he sleeps with does not have to be married to another man. Please let’s not make the Bible say what it did not say.
There is no single verse of Scripture which defines adultery as “sex ONLY between a married man and a woman married to someone else”.
For a man, adultery means
1. A married man having sex with another woman who is married to someone else. (Jer 29:23, etc).
2. A married man having sex with another woman who is unmarried, including harlots. (Prov 6:32; Jer 5:7).
3. A man lustfully desiring another woman, irrespective of her marital status. (Matthew 5:28).
4. A man who marries a (wrongly) divorced woman. (Matthew 19:9).
5. A wrongly divorced man who marries another woman. (Matthew 5:32).
It was translated as women more often than as a wife: as women 129 times; as wife 92 times
Two large numbers that are essentially equal. Your point fails, and this is bad exegesis.
How do you get there, from here?
“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom.”
When Europe gave up Christianity because of the “enlightenment,” God gave it over to its own foolishness. All of the arrogance and hubris associated with the scientific and technological advancements (and the alleged political and philosophical ones) are being laid to waste, not necessarily overtly by God bringing fire and brimstone or even the Babylonians. Rather He is just letting man’s folly flourish, and what was formerly the marvel that was Christendom is rapidly returning to squalor. And fallen man proves to the universe what a laughingstock it truly is.
@Dave –
You may want to read this about gyne as wife or woman –
https://www.jasonstaples.com/bible/most-misinterpreted-bible-passages-1-matthew-527-28/
How can a man ever be attracted to his to-be-wife to be if he is committing a sin by desiring her as his wife?
Dave, and all,
I did overstate my case a bit saying that the word is “usually rendered wife”. It is frequently rendered wife, but also frequently rendered woman.
Based on the context (adultery – which in the Bible is never used towards virgins or widows),
… it clearly refers to a married woman, and should be rendered that way in English.
Dave,
I’m clearly not talking about sex with divorced women or prostitutes. I’m saying that men like Abraham, Jacob, Gideon, Josiah, and Moses (polygamists) were not adulterers.
David on the other hand was both a polygamist and an adulterer. God rebuked him for the adultery, but not the multiple wives.
It is profoundly dishonest to pretend that the Bible treats polygamy as adultery.
Hebrew uses different words for adultery and fornication, incest, beastiality, prostitution.
The Greek uses one word to mean sexual immorality. Could be translated to be any one of the above, all of them or something different. Presumably denying sex to your spouse is immoral in a sexual way. Sexual immorality. Pornea.
My bad on the last link. That exegesis was for comparing lust to coveting. This link explains more the gyne wife/woman dichotomy:
http://www.godrules.net/articles/mat5.htm
@Gage
Granted it’s been a few years, but when we went through an earlier version of the series at church I remember feeling underwhelmed and dissatisfied with the material. It was unintellectual, shallow, and oftentimes devoid of having any real point. The men presenting the material did so as a pep talk, reaffirming common tropes about manhood from a 21st century mainstream evangelical perspective without much substance. Thus Jesus is presented only as a “servant leader,” and his role as God, savior, teacher, good shepherd, prophet, messiah, or enemy of the Pharisees was never considered let alone discussed.
Furthermore, having someone lecture what it means to “be a man” actually does nothing toward helping one be one—in one sense in God creating us as men we already are men and need no further education on this regard. But if we are more charitably interpret 33’s mission as helping disciple men into fulfilling Christ’s intention for how godly men are to be, the series still falls flat as it fails to recognize and incorporate essential aspects of masculinity into its message. Men provide, men combat evil, men seek understanding, men seek responsibility, etc. These psychological needs are brushed aside and replaced by mindless phrases and words that are forgotten shortly after the video is stopped.
This is part of a larger trend within evangelical circles to replace what should be a Bible study with well-marketed studies meant to cater to some specific demographic or are the opinions of some evangelical figure looking to further his own professional career. You’ll notice that a lot of the problems relating to whatever errors the church currently believes is due to the absence of serious Bible study.
earl says:
March 28, 2018 at 10:49 pm
“Arranged marriage by the government. Yeah that would go over like a lead balloon.”
In French Canada in the 1600s, bachelor were literally ordered by the French King to marry and have children. Bachelorhood was not tolerated.
How can a man ever be attracted to his to-be-wife to be if he is committing a sin by desiring her as his wife?
Attraction between a man and the woman he intends to marry is normal, godly, and everywhere encouraged. Every man is allowed to sexually desire a woman whom he calls, or hopes to make, his wife. Same with the woman to the man she intends to marry. That is one of the main reasons God created marriage.
I believe everyone reading what Jesus said understood He wasn’t talking about intending couples.
My bad on the last link. That exegesis was for comparing lust to coveting. This link explains more the gyne wife/woman dichotomy:
http://www.godrules.net/articles/mat5.htm
The author clearly attempted to torture God’s simple, clear commandment. He then went further to define sexual sins the way they were defined under the law.
Nice try, but it fell short.
We are no longer under the law, but under another Covenant.
If we were to keep ourselves to the OT Laws only, then many harmful practices would be acceptable to the Christian (e.g. cigarette/weed smoking, pornography, etc).
Under the New Covenant, God writes His laws upon our hearts, not in tables of stone, and He makes His laws even more personal for each one of us. We don’t have to violate the letters of the law before our actions become sinful before God. For instance, if we doubt the lawfulness of an action we intend to take, and, while in that state of doubt, we went ahead, without clearing the doubt up first, we sin, even if the action itself was not sinful.
Apostle Paul illustrated this in his letter to the Roman Christians:
Rom 14:22-23 (KJV)
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
I am not completely clear about the argument, but claiming polygamy is the same as adultery is quite the stretch, and has no Biblical support.
@Bart,
You’re right, God permitted quite a few things in the OT, but forbids them in the NT.
Polygamy was not God’s original intention for marriage, but He permitted it when men engaged in the practice. Same with divorce, which God permitted “because of the hardness of heart” of the men.
At the same time, God never encouraged either polygamy or divorce. In fact, it was clearly stated, even in the OT, that God hates divorce (Malachi 2:16), though He permitted it.
Thus, while it may be true that the OT polygamists were not considered to be adulterers, any New testament believer who marries more than one wife will have a hard time justifying the decision. If anything, polygamy was consistently discouraged in the early church.
I wish there were sidebars like at a blog called Mgoblog (sports) so these cluttering offtopic conversations would go elsewhere. They have a diary section and a posting section for anyone to write in and the center page is for site’s writers.
@Dave
Not quite simply the hardness of heart but the unique circumstances of the time made it a necessary evil.
http://www.tektonics.org/lp/polygamy.php
men do not want to be men
they love learning from women.
one marriage conference invited a baseball player, he said men should look after the home and kids so the wife can flourish. he stays home as a house husband during off season so his wife can go to work record music and do music tours.
they were called the zoborists.
he wants to preach and teach during off season but he sacrifices for his wife….
even successfull christian men are taught to submit and swap roles to prove real love.
Poke’s Law came early!
@Dave – “Every man is allowed to sexually desire a woman whom he calls, or hopes to make, his wife.”
Good to know. There are many women I’d love to make my wife that I am attracted to. BTW, are you saying cigarette smoking is a sin?
It may sound like I’m hypocritical…but I’m okay with a monarch giving that order over a gynocracy doing it.
Sheila looks like the marvelous Mad Madame Mim.
BTW, are you saying cigarette smoking is a sin?
What do you think? How would you interpret the following passages in the light of the effects of cigarettes on the body?
1 Cor 3:16-17 (KJV)
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1 Cor 6:19-20 (KJV)
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.
Do cigarettes defile the body, or glorify God? What about weed?
Even if we are not sure (doctors are sure), doesn’t the smoking of cigarettes, at least, bring a doubt as to its usefulness to the body? And what does the Bible say about doubtful behaviors? Why, such behaviors are sinful!
Rom 14:23 (KJV)
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
And, please don’t come back to argue that cigarette smoking is not expressly forbidden in Scripture, and therefore, it must be OK to smoke. We are expected to use our common sense, and “judge” each specific action in the light of our general understanding of God’s revealed intents.
1 Cor 2:15 (KJV)
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
@Dave – “Every man is allowed to sexually desire a woman whom he calls, or hopes to make, his wife.”
Good to know. There are many women I’d love to make my wife that I am attracted to.
I think you’re making a mockery of Christ’s clear and unmistakable commandment.
Any right thinking person knows that Christ wasn’t talking about a man courting his future spouse, or a woman weighing the proposal of a suitor. He was addressing something entirely different.
@Dave
You are forgetting context. Context is everything.
1 Co 3:16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? 17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.
I.e. it is talking about the congregation of Christians as God’s temple. Has nothing to do with smoking.
1 Co 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit…
Sexual immorality is sinning against your own body. Not smoking.
Rom 14:20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong
for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.
The context shows the discussion was about relationship about food and sin. All food is “clean”, i.e. in itself not a sin to eat.
I don’t recommend smoking, and would advise for healthy living. But I think this is mainly an area of personal conviction. Eventually our body will die anyways. Cardio-vascular diseases, cancer, and diabetes are the main health concerns. Regular exercise, cut down on fat and sugar, and eating more fruit and vegetables and a LOT less meat, protection against UV and EM radiation, radioactivity, while preventing toxic substances all help to keep or improve your health. Especially toxic substances we have little control over, much of it is from the environment. And Americans are even more exposed than Europeans, due to more strict EU laws. I’m not too obsessed with it.
Rom 14:
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.
@Dave – I am not making a mockery of the words of Jesus. But, good luck to you.
Paul,
I liked your health advice until you got to “eat a LOT less meat”.
That one makes me 😢 sad. I like meat.
I think I’ll stick with the “eat more fruit and vegetables”, “reduce sugar”, “reduce processed foods”, but keep eating a fair bit of meat. I need to keep my protein intake high enough to build more muscle. 😁
Paul,
I liked your health advice until you got to “eat a LOT less meat”.
That one makes me 😢 sad. I like meat.
I think I’ll stick with the “eat more fruit and vegetables”, “reduce sugar”, “reduce processed foods”, but keep eating a fair bit of meat. I need to keep my protein intake high enough to build more muscle. 😁
@Bart: it’s true though, look it up. Protein without meat is still perfectly possible. And remember, less meat does not mean no meat. Although no meat is even better.
Daniel 1
11 Daniel then said to the guard whom the chief official had appointed over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah, 12 “Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. 13 Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see.” 14 So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days. 15 At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food. 16 So the guard took away their choice food and the wine they were to drink and gave them vegetables instead.
Not sure if it was divine intervention or benefits of the vegetarian diet or REAL BAD royal food.
You can buy NOW pea protein unflavored inexpensively; however, if you have the money by some PLNT plant protein (chocolate or vanilla) as that’s the highest quality plant protein. But it comes at a price. I buy both and mix them usually after lifting. This works because the PLNT plant protein is very sweet. Stevia and natural flavors only, of course.
I find plant protein (non-soy, non-GMO, no sugar, no artificials) to be the cleanest and healthiest. Whey’s (made from whole milk) is OK and you can buy it in bulk cheap if you’re looking to bulk up fast but I really like the non-soy vegetable protein myself.
I really don’t eat a whole lot of meat, though much of my protein does come from animal sources. I’ve got my own backyard hens and eat eggs every day. I also like Greek yogurt and cottage cheese. In terms of protein supplements, I use whey. It is pretty inexpensive at Costco. I’ve looked into the pea protein, but it costs more than the whey (and I’m cheap). I’m also an avid gardener, so I produce a lot of our own fruit and vegetables.
I really don’t eat a whole lot of meat, though much of my protein does come from animal sources. I’ve got my own backyard hens and eat eggs every day. I also like Greek yogurt and cottage cheese. In terms of protein supplements, I use whey. It is pretty inexpensive at Costco. I’ve looked into the pea protein, but it costs more than the whey (and I’m cheap). I’m also an avid gardener, so I produce a lot of our own fruit and vegetables.
@Paul
”I don’t recommend smoking, and would advise for healthy living. But I think this is mainly an area of personal conviction. Eventually our body will die anyways. ”
True although if one wants to avoid unnecessary suffering and debilitation in old age until death its good to live healthy lifestyle.
The only suffering that we should have is for the cause of Christ and from factors beyond one’s control.
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