Instapundit linked to a post by Dr. Helen titled How Have Men been Affected by Feminism?
The stories ranged from an immigrant from India who felt that “feminism was a cultural force that had the effect of dehumanizing me in a manner far more severe than the experience of racism”… to a man who was fired from his job due to baseless allegations. In-between, there are other accounts of men who did not have children because they were afraid of having them taken away after seeing this happen to so many others, men whose fathers were abused by their wives without intervention, and men who no longer wanted relationships with women because of the psychological (and sometimes physical) pain they have caused, all without concern or empathy.
Old_School_Conservative53 wanted Instapundit readers to know that he hasn’t been impacted by feminism at all:
I haven’t been affected at all. I was raised to treat ladies with respect and courtesy, to keep my hands to myself unless openly invited, and not to shit where I eat. For the last 18 years of my career I supervised 8 women directly and never had one problem with them. In fact when I retired they embarrassed the heck out of me with the way they hugged and cried.
His message is that if you are a good boy like him feminists will be nice to you. All of those other men must have had it coming. The men who lost their jobs due to baseless allegations nevertheless deserved to be fired. Likewise the fathers Dr. Helen referenced deserved to be kicked out of their kids’ lives, and their sons deserved to grow up without a father.
But even more sickening than his inability to feel empathy for other men is the subtext of pleading for praise from mommy. See, I’m not like those other men! Aren’t I a good boy mommy?
There is a difference between being “nice” and being simply polite. I think feminism has turned men by the sheer force of terror into “nice guys” who will go lengths to please their overlords.
The genius of feminism
Is that the average man’s first reaction
Is oft to take the bait
Agree with feminism
And state, “I am the only man in the room!
Hear me Roar!”
Hugs and crying. This is how women treat other women, not men.
They thought he was a wuss.
Pedestalizing Tradcon is the Only Real Man In The Room on conservative comment thread and, as Dalrock noted, “all those other guys had it coming to them”. Well, there’s something no one has ever seen before. Makes me miss Anonymous Aged 70+ a bit, for his perspective from the 80’s.
As for the crying…welllll, I’ve seen college aged girls get all emotional when their bestest Beta Orbiter moves away, too…
1914 version of him.
Old_School_General53.
“I haven’t been affected at all by what you call “trench warfare.” I was raised to charge into battle with bravery and courage, to keep my my rifle clean and my uniform spotless. For the last 18 years of my career I supervised 8 battalions directly and never had one problem with them taking their objective. In fact when I retired they embarrassed the heck out of me with the way they cheered and threw their hats into the air.”
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Very women-oriented point of view there – take one anecdotal/real data point/outlier and falsely extrapolate an entire environment from it. It’s like saying, “I’ve never been raped, so rape doesn’t exist/isn’t a problem.”
“”For the last 18 years of my career I supervised 8 women directly””
What a lucky guy…..UGH!
It’s also generational, in part. He sounds like someone in his 70s perhaps. Many, many guys in that age range just don’t get any of this stuff because they are living with blinders on and/or just have limited exposure to the issues. They literally do not understand what things are like for younger generations of men at all.
In fact when I retired they embarrassed the heck out of me with the way they hugged and cried
The One Good Man
Old_School_Conservative53 is the worst kind of idiot, blinding supporting the feminist imperative thinking all is well until they (and they always do at some point to men whom support them) they lower the boom on him.
The advice to stay away from young woman…anyone under 40 – is good advice. After that age, they are set and going to be where they are going to be and no longer interested so much in “building their brand” as the kids say nowadays, so they are more likely be good colleagues and get along to get along as they have more important things to do than make trouble.
Novaseeker
It’s also generational, in part. He sounds like someone in his 70s perhaps
Could be in his 60’s or even upper 50’s but, yeah, I know men like that. Mention that women now initiate 70% of divorces and they just shrug and mutter about “abusive men”. Reply that the majority of divorces are not for abuse or adultery and they retreat to “must have treated her badly”.
If you’ve never seen or heard a first-person divorce-rape report, it seems to be unlikely.
Poke Salad
It’s like saying, “I’ve never been raped, so rape doesn’t exist/isn’t a problem.”
Traditional conservative men have a strong tendency to be solipsistic. You know, like women…
And they are both idolaters. Making women the idol.
Dalrock,
You responded ‘Good Boy’ to the virtue-signalling cuckservative, but why didn’t you include a link to your own article here?
Since most of the other commenters there are considerably more red-pill, you could bait the cuckservative into doubling down, and then getting stomped by others.
You can still edit your comment to include the link to this article.
The woman is never to blame…it’s always the man’s fault. Woman is only good and man is only evil. A man is only saved through a woman’s approval.
It’s not only Churchian and White Knight approved…it’s one of the tenants of feminism.
Conservative53 does not understand the point of collective punishments, such as decimation in the military. The ones spared are not innocent. The ones randomly killed are not especially guilty. They die as incentives for those that live to do better in the future. It’s an incentive plan.
Similarly, men are all guilty in the eyes of radical feminists. Some are even honest enough to say so in public. That’s the point of the belief that hetro sex is rape (although even radical feminists say this only in euphemisms). We are all oppressors to them.
Much of this is generational. Conservative is probably a boomer, and so missed has not experienced modern feminism first-hard. Let’s hope for his sake that he continues to be lucky, sustained in his bubble of righteousness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimation_(Roman_army)
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Catharine_MacKinnon#Misattributed
never make the mistake of believing that conservatives are automatically pro-male.
Unfortunately you’ll never change this type of guy. He has been indoctrinated into this mind set from birth and grew up in a time where things were different. And lets face it, a lot of the bad things that happen to guys are somewhat self inflicted, its just that the punishment is wildly out of proportion to the actions of the guy. So his rigid worldview is re-enforced enough that he can safely ignore counter arguments and examples of gross injustice.
Younger guys know the score, but guys being guys are in most cases willing to take the risk in order to get what they want. For my part I agree with him in that if men acted morally in the Christian sense (i.e., not having sex outside of marriage, etc.) then there would be a lot less exposure to some of the problems young men encounter. However, even with that men have a target on their back and can suffer from divorce rape or any random bat crazy feminist accusing them of bad think and ruining their life/career. Sadly even an old joke in an elevator can get you into hot water now days.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/she-called-his-elevator-joke-offensive-he-called-her-complaint-frivolous-whos-right/2018/05/03/43ba4084-4ee1-11e8-af46-b1d6dc0d9bfe_story.html?utm_term=.bdc0cc5d8f98
Guys like him are on their way out but I’m not convinced that will solve any of the problems, basically guys need to take back control but I don’t see that happening with the soy boys of today.
How many men did he throw under the bus to keep in their good graces?
It’s not difficult to have good relations with women, especially if they see you are a man they can manipulate.
How many, “Let’s you and him fight” did this guy fall for, all in the name of white-knighting?
The ones spared are not innocent. The ones randomly killed are not especially guilty. They die as incentives for those that live to do better in the future. It’s an incentive plan.
When Admiral Byng was executed for failing to win (not lose) the Battle of Minorca, Voltaire remarked in Candide, “It is good to kill an admiral from time to time, so as to encourage the rest.”
His handle has the number ’53’ in it.
If he is only 53, then he is too young to be caught in a National Review-type time warp, and he should be panned.
If he was born in 1953, he is age 65. He is still a moron, but can be ignored as a relic that is vanishing.
How many men did he throw under the bus to keep in their good graces?
It’s not difficult to have good relations with women, especially if they see you are a man they can manipulate.
How many, “Let’s you and him fight” did this guy fall for, all in the name of white-knighting?
I can’t be too harsh, though. Until my frivorce, I probably would’ve thought it would never affect me.
@AR
Could be in his 60’s or even upper 50’s but, yeah, I know men like that.
He’s old school conservative 53. So born in 1953, retired earlier this year at 65? Doesn’t matter since his handle and attitude are the tells. It’s been shown here many times that the old school has crumbled to dust, and the conservatives have conserved nothing of value.
I know such men also. He hasn’t bothered to learn anything about what it’s like for men younger than himself. He found what worked for him and kept the blinders on all the way.
The way he was raised may have served him well as a kid, when there were some ladies about that rewarded him with “The Lift” for his behavior and probably little else while they were handily controlling him. The 8 women at work probably took turns playing puppet-master with that guy. They may be genuinely sad to see him go. Loss of father/grandfather figure that had them all on a pedestal.
patriarchal landmine says:
“never make the mistake of believing that conservatives are automatically pro-male.”
Indeed, conservatives are feminists, they are usually just 10 to 20 years behind current feminists.
And they want to maintain the status quo, whatever that is, they aren’t trying to go “backward” they just want things to remain the same, forever and ever.
I know boomers that think of themselves as conservative, but they have embraced everything from first and second wave feminism.
And they want to maintain the status quo, whatever that is, they aren’t trying to go “backward” they just want things to remain the same, forever and ever.
That is why it is the most loserish ideology imaginable.
Cuckservatism is effectively betting at night that the sun won’t rise, and then betting during the day that the sun won’t set.
“He’s old school CUCKservative 53. So born in 1953, retired earlier this year at 65? Doesn’t matter since his handle and attitude are the tells. ”
Sounds like the typical dime a dozen attitude of a boomertard. Idiots like that are worse than useless.
He wipes his feet and eats what he is served.
. . . The feminist, meanwhile, will eat, wipe her mouth and say, “I’ve done nothing wrong.”
And the same “conservatives” will cheer her on for doing so.
“In fact when I retired they embarrassed the heck out of me with the way they hugged and cried”
Why is that? Because all these years of being nice paid off and all these gals finally got to touch his pee pee?
For the lips of the feminist woman drip misandry, and her speech is rough as sandpaper; so in the end it’s easy to see she is bitter as gall, sharp as a double-edged sword.
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Dunno about 53 Chevy Conservative but in Dr. Helen’s article is this comment from a guy named Steve Gregg: who seems to know whereof he speaks. My only problem is he singles out white men as the only targets – no no no. We all know men from other continents can as easily be put through the wringer. That said, some excerpts:
“If you work in any company with an HR department, white men are the enemy. If you’re smart, you will minimize your engagement with young women to protect yourself from false accusations of harassment from malicious, dishonest, stupid, or just plain crazy women. If a woman harasses you, you can not report it because you will be the one punished.
[…}
If you have been falsely accused at work, you should find another job and leave, documenting the reason why in detail when you leave. It won’t get better for you. Once you have been accused once, you’re more likely to be accused a second time and be fired. Remember to document everything.
[…]
If you must work in an office with a lot of young women, be professional and polite with them, but do not engage them in personal chitchat. Anything you say can be turned into a harassment complaint and once you are accused, you are guilty. Women are more likely to file complaints against guys who are friendly to them and less likely to complain about guys who remain aloof from them and slightly disdainful.
[…]
Never go into a conference room alone with a young woman, ever. Never meet a young woman alone for any reason on a business trip. Try to channel your communication with women into email, where it is documented, or meetings, where it is witnessed. Anytime you meet with young women alone, you are courting a bogus harassment complaint for which you have no defense.”
That last bit of course is what we call the Mike Pence Rule (or Billy Graham Rule, my preferred moniker). Call it Late For Supper if you like, but more and more that rule will be included forcibly in HR conduct manuals by EPL (employment practices liability) insurers as a requirement for the employer to get coverage and stay in business.
That last bit of course is what we call the Mike Pence Rule (or Billy Graham Rule, my preferred moniker)
This has a chilling effect. We have to do business with women, but We can’t treat them as equals. They hold “special powers” that we aren’t allowed to mention.
patriarchal landmine @ 2:11 pm:
“never make the mistake of believing that conservatives are automatically pro-male.”
These days, I don’t make the mistake of believing that Christians are automatically pro-Christ.
Well, it looks like my sex may be replaced not by sexbots, but by Alexa and Siri:
https://slate.com/technology/2018/04/i-judge-men-based-on-how-they-talk-to-the-amazon-echos-alexa.html
“The default femaleness of digital assistants, along with their connection to the home, calls to mind another kind of “domestic servant”—a blissfully outdated one. There’s something about hearing a man bark a woman’s name as he walks through the door that is shudderingly reminiscent of the fact that many men once, and all too recently, expected a woman in the home to respond to their beck and call. With women still liberating themselves from the problem that has no name, it’s as if missing housewives are being replaced with more servile smart-home wives, reinforcing the cultural connection between “women” and “subservience” to boot.”
Fred Flange Live And In Person
That last bit of course is what we call the Mike Pence Rule (or Billy Graham Rule, my preferred moniker)
Hose_B
This has a chilling effect. We have to do business with women, but We can’t treat them as equals. They hold “special powers” that we aren’t allowed to mention.
There are already complaints from women in government, business & acadamia about the Late For Supper rule: because men are willing to meet one-on-one with other men, but not with women, guess what that’s called? Dis-crim-in-AY-shun, because of the loss of “mentoring” and other experiences. No way that any of these women would ever, ever misinterpret a remark or use a false accusation of harrassment to undercut potential competition, nuh-uh.
Also in the #ChurchToo churchgoing world, conservative feminist girl-bloggers are just fuming over the very idea that some pastor or professor or other man would refuse to share a ride across town or otherwise be alone with them, because they are The Good Girls as long as men will just keep their hands to themselves everythihg will be just fine and The Good Girls would never, ever misconstrue a remark or use a false accusation to further their career and besides (all together now)
Not All Women Are Like That.
It’s funny how no matter how long the rabbit trail, eventually we wind up at NAWALT…
never hotlink to clickbait sites like slate.
http://archive.is/ivyPm
I definitely agree with that. That whole thing of knowing them by their fruit is as pertinent now as it was when Christ said it when He was on earth.
Perhaps if Alexa were Alex (and Siri, Sir) this wouldn’t be so unsettling. It’s hard to listen to a man call out a woman’s name followed by a command
If it were a mans name, she wouldn’t have a problem with them being ordered around, but a female (even a computer that sounds like a female) must never be commanded, always asked…….with no expectations.
Conservatives are leftists on time delay. Their primary achievement is to conserve leftist gains.
Their mode of operation is to be uncomfortable about today’s leftism, but accepting of yesterday’s leftism.
As leftism is hellbound, so too is conservatism.
They’re just pro cunt. “Christian” is only a label these days for most of these phonies.
Old_Cuck_Conservative53 was too soft and unmanly to be anything more than a lowly work-group manager at the pinnacle of his career. He’s really just one of the “girls.”
Some dumb boomer fails to note that feminism has had negative consequences on others, and this is news somehow?
For all the virtue-signaling ‘Dads” and others like Old_School_Conservative53, this is what you can look forward to:
https://www.popsugar.com/moms/Why-Dads-Dont-Deserve-Praise-44576481
She also writes for Scary Mommy, which explains a lot.
News for Old_School_Conservative53: He might have been able to get away with it in the past. Sure, feminism was present, but there was enough structure to the Patriarchy to keep the worst excesses of feminism at bay.
Examples of this would be:
-Respectable men highly placed who would not tolerate spurious allegations
-Husbands who just might tell their wives off if they did something stupid at work
-A police force that actually chased criminals, rather than massage statistics and arrest law-abiding men for Public Relations
-A media that understood its’ job was exposing news, not making cheap and easy copy.
In the modern (regressive) workplace, Old_School_Conservative53 would be destroyed. This would happen because he is precisely the kind of man that buzz-cut, nasty spiteful feminists would get stuck into. They know he won’t hold them to account. They know he wouldn’t hit back. They know there is enough patriarchy in him for them to make a cheap shot at while claiming they are courageous.They know that if he’s accused, the first thing he’ll say is , ”Sorry”, which to them is an admission of guilt and therefore the licence to lynch.
I was raised to treat women with decency and respect too. I’ll wager that every man on this blog had the same or similar. We changed not because we remained ignorant of women (”You just don’t know / haven’t met good women”) , but because we have been exposed to the excesses of their behavior.
He had the same job for 18 years, no promotions. That tells us a lot right there. At best, the girls liked him because he kept things peaceful in the henhouse. He might be a “confirmed bachelor” – just one of the girls. Or just a boomertard cuck.
Spike,
News for Old_School_Conservative53: He might have been able to get away with it in the past. Sure, feminism was present, but there was enough structure to the Patriarchy to keep the worst excesses of feminism at bay.
Perhaps you should address him in a venue where he might actually see your words? Like in the thread linked in the original article?
Think how GOOD Rob Reiner was for ‘women’s rights”, race baiting and the man invented virtue-signaling. That man planted a lot of bad seed, he and his father Carl and that Norman Leer.
Remnants of the Obama era, where identity politics, weaponized policy and brazen flaunting of female/minority power reigned. Those who still feel the effects of this will do damage as long as we let them. Neutralize their arguments in every way and they will eat themselves.
Vox Day, for example, is doing a stellar job of dismantling the darlings of the “Intellectual Dark Web’ Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro.
It’s also generational, in part. He sounds like someone in his 70s perhaps. Many, many guys in that age range just don’t get any of this stuff because they are living with blinders on and/or just have limited exposure to the issues. They literally do not understand what things are like for younger generations of men at all.
I can’t really blame him. This sort of cluelessness and intellectual decline inevitably happens as one gets that old. Plus he’s a Boomer, and that generation was pretty much a shitshow all in all, so it’s not like he stands out as someone particularly idiotic.
I guess it wasn’t always like this. In the past, people didn’t normally delay or avoid marriage. In other words, generations reproduced more frequently. It was also relatively normal for 3-4 generations to cohabit under the same roof. All this fostered a higher level of empathy between generations. Not to mention that people normally died before turning into a 70-something senile mangina.
He was raised to be a submissive, white-knighting simp, which is what he is. The con run on him is complete because he can’t see what he is. Just because one or more of the eight women he “supervises” haven’t falsely accused him yet, doesn’t mean they won’t. And it won’t matter what a good little submissive boy he was, he will still be zeroed out.
Behold your totalitarian master!
I personally believe that feminism could not have been invented by a human being.
It is too sophisticated, too effective, too simple, too destructive, too powerful and too deceptive to be conceived by a human mind.
I believe that feminism was spawned by the most wicked minds in the deepest and darkest parts of hell itself. The movement is so satanic, it could not have originated from man.
Feminism is the seven-headed monster that gave birth to virtually all the evils that plague mankind today. More lives have been lost through feminism than all the wars that have ever been fought in the world. And the carnage continues through the abortion industry, an offshoot of feminism.
When modern civilization eventually collapses, it will be due to the unfettered effects of feminism on society.
Feminism turns the hearts of the children against their fathers, a development that God said would invite His worldwide curse on the earth (Malachi 4:6). The antichrist will most likely be a son of a single mother.
And thus all the manginas are free to feel sorry for wimminz, rather than criticize them, for their crap behavior; after all, their hatred and immorality is the fault of the nebulous (male) scapegoat named “Satan.”
And the immigrants should go back. Allow yourselves to be invaded and you no longer exist. The whole point of talking about feminism, white christian America, or even American or European culture becomes mute when that culture gets invaded and replaced. Its like being on the Titanic and failing to recognise that it’s sinking and you are going to drown.
@Dave: I personally believe that feminism could not have been invented by a human being.
I wrote elsewhere:
It’s interesting to know that the attack on marriage/family was one of the actual goals of communism, as it rightly understood that the family with it’s incredibly strong blood-bands will be a formidable counter-force against the power of a totalitarian government. It laid the foundation for the rise of feminism in western civilization, to the point that many of the tenets of feminism are indistinguishable from Marxist thought.
So it seems it was invented by human beings. Of course the adversary is always willing to lend a hand.
There’s a nice introduction at
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/103231/marxist-roots-feminism-spyridon-mitsotakis
Engels collected Marx’ notes and wrote “The Origin of the Family, Private Property, and the State”, which inspired the feminist Betty Friedan (her 1963 book “The Feminine Mystique” further triggered American feminism).
Another author that has researched on the relationship Marxism-Feminism and its impact on marriage and family is Paul Kengor:
https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2018/05/05/the-radical-assault-on-marriage-and-family-from-karl-marx-to-justice-kennedy/
“”For the last 18 years of my career I supervised 8 women directly””
What a lucky guy…..UGH!
We can be damned sure that no actual work ever got done on this guy’s watch.
And thus all the manginas are free to feel sorry for wimminz, rather than criticize them, for their crap behavior; after all, their hatred and immorality is the fault of the nebulous (male) scapegoat named “Satan.”
Agreed. It takes tremendous courage to be red pill, and weaker men are always looking for the easy way out. Case in point, dvdivx said :
And the immigrants should go back. Allow yourselves to be invaded and you no longer exist. The whole point of talking about feminism, white christian America, or even American or European culture becomes mute when that culture gets invaded and replaced.
While all illegal and unskilled legal immigration should be halted, it is absurd to send back the ones already here who have become US citizens (the US will never strip citizenship that has been already granted). Remember, the reason that there are so many Nationalist-Leftists in the ‘sphere, even though most Nationalist-Leftists are manginas, is because it takes considerable courage to be red-pill, while it is vastly easier to default back down to the hardwiring of pre-historic humans and squeak about ‘muh tribe! muh tribe!’.
The most sophisticated mind is red-pill about the FI. The least sophisticated become race nationalists (which is just another form of feminism).
Wrong. Never mind, though. Now that mythological spooks like Satan aren’t fitting, let’s project wimminz bad behavior onto historical characters like Marx and Engels (who you seem to know nothing about). It’s easier than criticizing the poor darlings.
One will note, with amusement, that these characters must always cover for the stank white goddesses they worship, by projecting their bad moral choices on some male phantom, be he Satan or Karl Marx. It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
Satan is not a myth…
The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in Your name.” So He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Luke 10:17-18
“Dads don’t deserve praise”
I bet Joe leaves her w/in 2 years. What a shrew.
Then let’s start calling out sin as sin. It’s not oppressive patriarchy, slut shaming, misogyny…it’s not racism, sexism, or any other -ism to cover up the fact it’s sin when you point it out. Just call out the sin. And afterwards give them the tools to repent of that sin…there is a Savior that did that for us.
I was raised to treat women with decency and respect too. I’ll wager that every man on this blog had the same or similar. We changed not because we remained ignorant of women (”You just don’t know / haven’t met good women”) , but because we have been exposed to the excesses of their behavior.
The change in men’s attitude towards women will continue to evolve in stages as the feminist cancer continues to metasticize and advance. Presently the most common reaction from RP men is complete avoidance (or, if that is impossible, barely tolerable civility). This will progress soon to open verbal hostility and eventually defensive physical violence. White knights will eventually become fewer and farther between as the feminist cancer targets everything male. The very few men then still inclined to white knight will find it unacceptably costly and dangerous, as they will find themselves targeted by the male majority. It’s going to get really ugly.
earl says: Then let’s start calling out sin as sin.
You wouldn’t believe how many people I’ve tried to get to confront my wife, about her life of sin, and so far, I believe I’ve got one pastor, and two friends, to tell her the truth.
Most will not put themselves in an awkward position like that. Not for me, not for my children, not for God’s sake. And some go talk to her, but relent, when she says she is unhaaaaapy because I am constantly condemning her wicked rebellion. After all that is abusive, and no woman can be expected to do right when her husband is demanding that she do right, and beating her up with Bible verses. I have heard more churchians preach to me about how God basically wants us all to be happy all the time, and if something makes you unhaaaapy, it couldn’t be from God. What theological non-sense!
1 Peter 2:18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust. 19 For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly. 20 For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God. 21 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps….3:1 Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they see your respectful and pure conduct.
We are called to suffer for Christ, and we will if we are truly His. The reason why women pray with their heads uncovered (no symbol of being under subjection), speak in churches, and are not told to submit in all things, is because the churchians are more interested in maintaining friendship with this world, than following God’s plainly understandable words.
James 4:4 You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
No kidding…God wants us to be holy. Turning feelings into what is good and evil is dumb.
@Sharkly
Sadly this is often true, and your experience is unfortunately a shared experience for many men. Your quotation of 1 Peter is spot on, and shows how many churches are following a narrative that seems almost alien to NT Christianity. Many factors are to blame, aberrant teachings are significant here. Compare for instance prosperity gospel’s:
“financial blessing and physical well-being are always the will of God for them, and that faith, positive speech, and donations to religious causes will increase one’s material wealth”
versus 1 Peter 4:19
So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.
.. suffer according to God’s will ..
.. commit themselves ..
.. continue to do good ..
When was the last time you heard that being preached?
Thanks Paul & earl,
.. suffer according to God’s will ..
.. commit themselves ..
.. continue to do good ..
When was the last time you heard that being preached?
Well, I suppose you already know the answer! In mixed company never.
However, when they get me by myself, they tell me exactly that.
Scrub the toilets better, wash more dishes, find joy in being a married In-Cel, help her to emasculate and disregard yourself further, don’t even ask her to do her part, and any month now she is going to quit being intimacy avoidant, and grab you for some wild impassioned sex, like you’ve never had. Apparently I deserve what I’m getting because they’re the only real man in the room in their minds.
In actuality they’ve never been the God fearing man I am, and likely never will be. And if one’s virtue is to be falsely judged by the tingles of women, I still make an awful lot of other women tingle without trying, even though my own wife chooses to flee from close intimacy. But like Job, folks who aren’t near your equals, can’t resist the opportunity of kicking you when you’re going through great misfortune. It may sound like I lack humility, but like Job, or Paul, I have reason to boast if it should come to that.
Micha 7:7 But as for me, I will look to the Lord;
I will wait for the God of my salvation;
my God will hear me.
8
Rejoice not over me, O my enemy;
when I fall, I shall rise;
when I sit in darkness,
the Lord will be a light to me.
9
I will bear the indignation of the Lord
because I have sinned against him,
until he pleads my cause
and executes judgment for me.
He will bring me out to the light;
I shall look upon his vindication.
10
Then my enemy will see,
and shame will cover her who said to me,
“Where is the Lord your God?”
My eyes will look upon her;
now she will be trampled down
like the mire of the streets.
Shoot I was at my cousin’s wedding and of course one of the bride’s maids had to give some marital advice…’it’s hard for her to stay mad when you are cleaning’.
To which I heard more than one guy say ‘that’s a lie.’
Yeah perhaps if pastors actually started using the Word and what God has to stay about wives submitting to their husband and kick out the ‘convert your wife through dish washing and toilet cleaning’…there might be more marital success.
Yeah perhaps if pastors actually started using the Word and what God has to stay about wives submitting to their husband and kick out the ‘convert your wife through dish washing and toilet cleaning’…there might be more marital success.
These pastorbators are ashamed of Scripture. God is going to have something rather unpleasant to say to them about that on Judgment Day.
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Dr. Helen Smith is one of the unsung female heroes of the men’s and legal fairness restoration of America. She should be lauded for her work, and I wanted to make sure I mentioned that first.
Now…. I believe that if we were to record and publish every single case of legal and social unfairness against men in the Western World, Brazil, and the AngloSphere (USA, UK, Canada, Australia, and NZ), we would be filling out every inch of space in just about every notebook in this Earth. The systematic repression, disenfranchisement, and abuse of men in our Feminist societies are astounding and much more common and more widespread then people outside of the legal profession realize.
I know much of the discussions here on Dalrock focus on Western Europe and the AngloSphere, if you want to see what legislated and codified lawful oppression of men looks like, look no further then Brazil.
Brazil WAS once known for feminine, fit, and sensual women. But since the Marxists took control of Brazilian government at all levels, and they have re-made the educational, legal, media, and political system there. Women are encouraged to become obese and men can be fine or in many cases, arrested, for making disparaging remarks about a woman’s obesity or appearance. The women have been also encouraged to cover themselves with large tattoos, as if they were all in a biker gang. The women also know they can make criminal accusations against men without fear of recrimination and without fear of prosecution for making false police report. The result, as you can imagine, is a culture of fear and further distrust. Men are routinely physically assaulted in public and life as cowering puppies around their women, for fear of a false criminal accusation.
Simply put, Brazil has been radically re-made by two Marxist Presidents and their cohorts in the Brazilian Congress. President Lula (now in jail for corruption, to my great surprise at his arrest) was the Socialist President of Brazil for 8 years and he had super-majorities in Congress. He packed the courts. Lula is from the PT political party (Worker’s Party; logo is a Soviet red star with a small hammer inside). His vice-President, the daughter of Bulgarian communists who immigrated to Brazil in the 1940s, later becomes President.
Presidenta Dilma, its first Commie-Female leader, ran Brazil with an iron fist for 5 years under a semi-Communist regime, finally being impeached for corruption and abuse of power. This woman actually won a 2nd term even after all the misery inflicted, the idiots there STILL re-elected her. 🙄 (each term is 4 years for President, just like in USA).
Lula and Dilma ran Brazil into cultural and financial decay, just as Obama and Hillary would have run the USA if we had not stopped Hillary and bought America some “breathing room” to give us a chance to recover from Obummer’s damage. The Marxist leaders of Brazil re-created Brazil as a Feminist-Socialist country. This is no exaggeration on my part at all. I should know, because I speak Portuguese, I deal with Brazilians in my hometown of Orlando regularly, I check their news sites once a week, and I maintain some contacts in Brazil to this day.
The laws in Brazil have planned, written, designed, and codified with a FemiNazi intent in ways you cannot even imagine. This is not like in USA where some local Family Law judge favors women in divorce and child custody, misusing his/her “judicial discretion” in a negative, but subtle way. Oh no! In Brazil, Feminism has been legislated and codified into law. Allow me to explain:
* The women are legally allowed to use physical violence against men, and they do in public, without fear of arrest. They simply have to say they “felt threatened” by any man IF a cop ever came. The country is poorly policed and officers often never respond to a crime, unless they can get something out of it (i.e. arrest someone for selling drugs and they steal the drugs or respond to a false crime, so they can extort the man for money).
*A single woman with a child can stay in an apartment and not pay rent and not be evicted for at least 3 years (no, I am not kidding) BY LAW.
*A woman can put virtually any man in prison for AT LEAST a decade (minimum prison is 10 years for this “Crime”) for something as small as “causing mental anguish” of a woman or even “upsetting a woman in a manner that is misogynistic, callous, or reckless”, caused by a man under a crazy law called “Lei Maria da Penha” (look it up, I am not kidding). Socialist President Lula signed this horrorshow into law in 2006 and it is designed to destroy men (this is actually even more unfair than California’s “Yes Means Yes” law, which was created to make all sex into rape, unless “affirmative consent” is given every 10 minutes of sexual activity).
Lei Maria Da Penha and “Yes Means Yes” laws are something the UN wants globally, so men can be imprisoned for no reason at all and stay in prison for decades, for even verbally upsetting a woman. The UN and George Soros organizations are very much focused on global oppression of men, because they know women block-vote for Socialism and their heard mentality is the key to global government.
*”Speech crimes” target people for making statements deemed to have any racism, or opposing feminism, disrespecting women, minorities, gays, etc are by law and are arbitrarily enforced. Misogyny, which is un-defined by law (on purpose), allows judges to punish (mostly men) at will, and it is a felony to make a “misogynistic” statement. If misogyny and racism are combined during the commission of a “verbal offense”, it is a criminal offense not eligible for bond!! ❗
*Women cannot be punished under Brazilian law for making a false police report. False rape allegations by women are so common and widespread, they have female-only police departments called “Delegacia de Mulheres” (women only police stations, controlled by armed police-versions of Rosie O’Donnell feminists). The ONLY way to escape arrest when a woman calls the Delegacia is to have at least $500 USD in cash to bribe the feminist cop, because the only thing feminist cops like more then oppressive men is taking cash bribes. Otherwise, it is a guaranteed arrest for a rape that never happened.
*Brazilian courts accept coerced confessions after the suspect has been beaten (and has visible marks) of police violence. There are NO protections against search and seizure of property anywhere, at any time. There are NO self-defense laws at all. You have “duty to retreat” if you come under physical attack.
Brazil is as free as a disorganized and corrupt version of East Germany would be, run by force by a Statzi-Gestapo style police force and government. It is a ThugOcracy, a thuggish government focused on stealing from its citizens and oppressing men and the middle class. It is what Feminism looks like when codified and implemented across an entire society.
Women and Girls are TAUGHT feminism and its biased laws in all schools (as required by Brazilian law), women are informed via pamphlets in clinics and government offices about their “rights” to abuse men, and so forth. The whole system is not only created to legally oppress men, they also INFORM the women. This is a FemiNazi’s dream, of course.
Perfect example of how these laws affect everyday life.
Below, you can watch Brazilian women hitting, pushing, yelling at and smacking their men for merely trying to take a surf class that happens to be taught by a hot woman (this is from a TV prank show, but the people are real and this is common Brazilian “marra” attitude (ghetto feminist moxie) that is now standard Brazilian female speaking style and attitude.
https://brclip.com/video/0Hmcr_mrxwk/rapaziada-quer-fazer-aula-de-surfe-e-professora-gata-tira-a-mulherada-do-s%C3%A9rio.html
In sum…. I am bringing up Brazil because this is what America will be like if men do not resist the FemiNazis and their push to continue the Brazilification our the United States, not only via mass immigration, but legislative as well.
The Nov 2018 elections will be a good gauge as to whether men’s slowly growing anti-feminist will continue to grow or if we begin to lose steam and face even more persecution from un-elected bureaucrats across our govt or if we can continue to gain steam and momentum in our fight to reclaim our country, marriage fairness, and Judeo-Christian culture.
Oh yeah…. and regarding the Beta boy commenter “Old_School_Conservative53” claim that he hasn’t been impacted by feminism at all……. couple things:
*1) His idea of being a “Conservative” is probably along the lines of Lindsay Graham or John McCain being “conservative”, when Graham and McCain are nothing more then center-left, open borders, globalist, NeoCon.
The commenter may be one of the “Blue Dog Democrats” who thinks he is Conservative. 🙄 I try not to judge people without knowing more facts, but there are some clear observations as to who this guy is.
A true Conservative is a Christian patriarch, a lover of tradition and freedom. He opposes FemiNazism is because it opposes Biblical teachings and it opposes the 6,000 year tradition of patriarchal societies. The goal is to “conserve” or “preserve” traditions, including masculinity and patriarchal-led families. So this guy is NOT a conservative.
*2) He is also probably an incel or been divorce-raped a few times and thinks that losing everything he has worked for in Family Court = being fair to women. Women simply do not respect men who are weak, Beta, or indecisive.
The fact he says he “keeps his hands to himself” and waits until a woman “invites him” = women see him as a harmless little pathetic lil’ boy who is of no threat to them. These women probably walk all over him and only miss him, as we miss our school mascot after graduating from middle school.
*3) He is also a white knight, his job is to placate women and ignore (or increase) the suffering of men, who are unfairly treated when applying for college admissions, when applying for jobs, when facing “quotas” at their employers when it comes to layoffs, when it comes to criminal prosecution and sentencing, and when it comes to child custody, divorce, and financial decisions by Family courts.
Unfortunately, I have mentioned this issue in several discussion forums in the past, when it comes to men and women dealing with the war against feminism and the left’s battle to continue the current system of oppression. This commenter is a perfect example of the problem and explains why men have been losing the Feminist battle for decades.
Women attack each other all the time, behind each other’s backs. They talk trash about one another when someone leaves. They are catty and mean. But when it comes to fighting for privileges for themselves, they work in unison. They are like an army, all lined up and firing in the same direction.
men, on the other hand, make crude jokes to one another openly and in the person’s face. They can say things like “say hello to your mom for me”, as one man is leaving the group. But it is done in a joking manner and in the open and the goal is to elicit a response by the other man. We often bond better with one another in social groups and tend to have fewer friends then women, but we focus on having real friends in life. But when it comes to fighting against Feminism, men often form circular firing squads. We attack each other viciously, not in a joking manner, and often tear each other down when discussing ways to fight the real enemy. We do not organize in teams like the Feminists do.
The feminists organize their ranks, have online mailing lists, and can send “Calls to action” for Feminists across the country to march and protest and to pressure legislatures into passing more Misandry laws (anti-male). Men, we like to act as individuals, because we ARE individuals, while woman re more collectivist. This is why every socialist and leftist movement across the world have overwhelming female support behind it.
The only problem about being too independent and too individualistic-minded is that unless we begin coordinating behind a set of ideas and principles, put them into legislative proposals, and organize as the feminists do, we will not be able to turn the tide of feminism and begin to straighten out this ship. Think about this ❗ and you will see that I am making a valid point here. 🙂
FabiusMaximus is doing a special series on SOLUTIONS to combating FemiNazism and it is worth checking out. 🙂
Men: THINK about what I am saying about the “circular firing squads” when we try to organize to fight the real enemy, the radical Feminists. Debate and disagreements are fine, but ad hominen attacks on one another are always unhelpful.
Always remember who THE REAL ENEMY is.
Sorry this got too long, folks. My .2 cents.
@ChristianCool: “… Brazil ,,,”
Wow… I’m baffled. This is real bad.
Paul:
Brazil is so far gone into the deep end of FemiNazism that it is likely a lost cause. Almost the entire Brazilian middle class (about ~15% of country’s population) has fled the country en masse, many moved to Orlando and North Miami areas.
I often warn American guys wanting to go to Brazil to try and meet a “Feminine, religious, and sensual girl” to come down to Orlando first and see if he likes what he sees. The Brazilian girls in Orlando are the best Brazil has to offer, so it is cheaper and easier to try to meet Brazilian girls in Orlando then going to Rio or Sao Paulo, which will be expensive to travel to and dangerous.
But Brazilian women have gone so far down in quality, I would rather take my chances with a girl from rural Kentucky or Tennessee then an Brazilian woman from ANY city over 500,000 people in Brazil. The whole “hot Brazilian women” thing is from a time 20+ years ago. Today, the FemiNazism of Brazilian women have made the women there fat, violent, lazy, and ugly. Not only that, these women spend ungodly amounts of YOUR money on spray tanning, expensive clothes, and they do not know how to do anything domestically.
Why? Because any middle class (and above) Brazilian families have a live-in maid in their home. The maid does all the cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping, laundry, etc. So the Brazilian woman knows nothing about domestic skills.
Marrying a Brazilian woman is probably the worst thing a man can do, then except marrying a Feminist from NYC (like Rosie O’Donnell or Jessica Valenti). Brazilian women offer almost no value to a man, they divorce frivolously, they are incredibly entitled, they are domestically-useless, they are incredibly lazy, they have no manners or class in restaurants and events, and get violent fast. They grew up steeped in FemiNazism and they think like Danish or Swedish women and are fat and violent like ghetto American women.
The only place in Brazil that still has some pretty feminine girls who have not covered their flabby bodies in tattoos, like a biker gangmember are in smaller towns SOUTHERN Brazil. One example: Joinville (beach city) in Santa Catarina State in Brazil or Gramado city.
Bottom line: do not marry any Western woman unless she is x3 times richer then you (in total assets or makes x3 more then you do) or you and her live in an incredibly strict religious environment like Amish country or rural Mormon Utah community and she is part of that strict religion. Do not marry a Brazilian woman, they are a horror-show.
Do not get marrie,d period, now that I am thinking about it overall. Unless we MGTOW marriage completely (MGTOW marriage only, but do not just avoid women, just avoid marriage), we cannot crash and then reset this corrupt Marriage 2.0 system that we have in our country today.
Good news is, I truly believe we have growing male awareness to the problem, Millennial men are abstaining from marriage anyway, and in time, Feminism will fail of its own weight, just likie Communism did. 🙂 What do you guys think?
I’ve opined for 20 years the West actually lost the Cold War. The Marxists have our women.
@JRob: fortes fortuna adiuvat
Yes but I think what is slowly replacing it is the caliphate.
Feminism doesn’t affect men at all. Just ask Charles Swindoll. He trots his hyphenated-surname strong/independent (some assembly required, void where prohibited) daughter out of the stable as an example to follow. Quick flyover of her body if work:
1. Had an autistic child way past fertility window – check
2. Frivorce – check
3. Blamed God for all consequences of bad decisions – check
4. Runs to papa who provides employment and a platform to attention whore – check
No feminism here, Chuck.
Feminism will fail of its own weight, just likie Communism did.
Yes but I think what is slowly replacing it is the caliphate.
I’ve further bad news for you – the caliphate won’t save you from feminism either (if that was ever a consolation). Islamic shariah applies only to muslims and the Arabs historically allowed their non muslim subjects to govern their own affairs according to their own religious customs (pertaining to matters like marriage and inheritance etc). This means that if the Church is governed by cucks who pander to women, Islamic hegemony will make no difference at all in the life of the average christian. If a Christian tried to appeal to a qadi for a ruling, the qadi would shrug and tell the christian to go back to his leaders and sort out his own affairs.
The caliphate would be the worst of both worlds – white christians would become second class citizens in their own land and they’d still have to endure feminism.
Ofcourse, this scenario is pure fantasy because the caliphate has been dead for 800 years and won’t be coming back. The CIA tried to resurrect it in the form of ISIS, but they failed pretty hard thanks to Asad and Putin.
1. Had an autistic child way past fertility window – check
Your other criticisms seem plenty valid, but it looks like she was only 30 when she had this child.
I’ve opined for 20 years the West actually lost the Cold War.
A compelling case could be made for that claim.
@Dota: “Islamic shariah applies only to muslims”
You’re severely mistaken. Shariah governs all spheres of life for *society&
@JRob:
Brilliant observation! Marxism and Communism failed miserably and lost politically and economically, but it certainly seems to have won when it comes to social policies.
One can also argue that Marxism won in the legal and legislative fields, when it comes to criminal law and family law (divorce, child custody, etc).
I am going to copy your quote about Marxism winning our women because it is simply brilliant. 🙂 Thanks!
@Dota:
Do you think for 1 second that once Muslims are a voting majority (heck, once they hit 30% of voters in a country, they have more then enough sway), they will not end ALL Feminism laws and policies within a country?? Come on!
In the UK and to a much greater extent in Belgium, Muslims are already electing members to Parliament. Trust me, once they have a voting majority or at least 30% control of the Parliament of any country, they will have enough power to begin dismantling ANY civil rights as they see fit. They will surely start with ending rape, violence against women, and divorce laws.
All non-Muslims (including all Christians) are 3rd class citizens in any Sharia-dominated country. Jews are killed immediately. Women are 2nd citizens, if they are married to Muslims.
Sharia Law controls EVERY aspect of society, but it certainly focus on religion and human behavior. Sharia also has extensive dietary regulations, it controls daily schedules with its mandatory prayer times, it controls what animals are holy (cats) and not (black dogs), how to handle women, how criminal laws are to be administered, the powers of the Caliph, and much more.
The absolutely last thing we need is Sharia Law in any modern society. No matter how much I despise FemiNazism and Marxism, these are enjoyable social and legal system when compared to Sharia Law. 😡
No real Christian could be happy to see the spread of Sharia Law in Western Europe. I am just saying it is an irony that the idiot women holding signs “refugees welcome” will one day in the next 20 years be enslaved by Sharia, if these immigration trends continue.
Paul:
Check out this video from Brazil. The first part shows a blonde woman pretending to be homeless. She is a professional model from a hidden camera TV show.
Watch as the “homeless lady” gets up and how the woman reacts against her man, just for LOOKING BRIEFLY at the “homeless woman”.
She shacks her man in the face, pushes him, scratches him, and shouts profanities at her men. I am going on 36 years old, I have NEVER had a woman attack me like this or disrespect me in this manner. I will not tolerate this kind of behavior and nay woman I am dealing with KNOWS THAT.
But in Brazil, the women are very rude and violent. The men have been Beta-fied beyond recognition. This is 15 years of legislated Feminism.
The second part of this joke video above, the same professional model pretends that she is lost and asks for direction to a hair and nail salon. When her cell phone rings, she lifts up her skirt to get her cell phone. The women not only physically attack her man, they begin to physically threaten the professional model.
Bottom line: Brazilian women are wild women, FERAL, and ugly. Just take a look at the non-professional model ladies and you will see what I mean. *barf* Imagine MARRYING one of these women. 😮 It makes our “middle America” women in our USA seem amazing! 🙄 lol
This, my friends, is legislated Feminism at work in real life. This is why we men must resist the expansion and fight to end every aspect of FemiNazism in America today.
There is still time to turn our ship around in the USA, if we men work together. 🙂 That is the good news. It is not time to take the “black pill” yet.
You’re severely mistaken. Shariah governs all spheres of life for *society&
Only if you are a Muslim.
Jews are killed immediately.
There were plenty of jews that lived in Abbasid Baghdad. They are even mentioned in Arabic literature like the 1001 nights (the same series that spawned Aladdin and Sindbad) which indicates that they were very much present in Islamic society.
In the UK and to a much greater extent in Belgium, Muslims are already electing members to Parliament. Trust me, once they have a voting majority or at least 30% control of the Parliament of any country, they will have enough power to begin dismantling ANY civil rights as they see fit. They will surely start with ending rape, violence against women, and divorce laws.
This has nothing to do with the caliphate. The scenario you mentioned is pure fantasy because Muslims don’t function as a monolithic entity. Linger around in any mosque and you will immediately notice ethnic tensions between the various groups that call themselves muslims. The fact is that so long as the main institutions and levers of power (media, academia, courts, banks etc) are controlled by a certain middle eastern tribe that shall not be named, it doesn’t matter how many muslims you have, their presence won’t change anything. After all, there was a time when whites were 90% of the population and were fervent Christians, but that didn’t stop a certain middle eastern tribe from gaining control of their institutions, dispossessing them and shoving feminism and third world immigration down their throats. What makes you think muslims are any smarter than whites? What makes you think muslims can even function as a single unit when ethnic differences tear them apart in the middle east and south asia?
@Dota
You don’t know what you’re talking about regarding Shariah. Mohammedanism doesn’t recognize a separation between state and (personal) religion. The world is separated in regions where Shariah is applicable to all inhabitants, and those where it isn’t. These are conveniently labeled Dar al-Islam (territory of Islam) and Dar al-Harb (territory of war). Islam has been translated “Peace”, but effectively it means “Submission”. The region where Shariah rules is submitted to the will of Allah, therefore it is called at “peace”. Such a peace is not what you and I mean by peace. And the region of war are thus labeled to indicate that it is the duty of a devout Mohammedan to make sure it will eventually be turned into dar al-islam.
Surah 9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
Notice the “unlawful”, it directly refer to those who have not adopted Shariah. Notice the “until”; fighting will only stop if unbelievers are humbled/subjugated and Shariah rules. This involves killing the polytheists and atheists, unless they at the point of the sword convert to Mohammedanism. Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrianists do not need to convert, but will be degraded to second-class citizens. This is a direct command to Mohammedans, and has been historically followed. It is the same command that drives groups like Al-Qaida, ISIS, Boko Haram, etc. But do not be deceived, it is not limited to such groups.
Oh, and in case you missed it: “religion of truth” of course refers to Mohammedanism. People who do not adopt it are to be combated.
@Dota: “What makes you think muslims can even function as a single unit”
Note that Mohammedanism did not spread by door-to-door spreading of the deeds of Mohammed, hoping for people to decide to join the Mohammedans in their religious worship, and leave everyone else alone. No, countries were attacked, and people at sword-point either converted, subjugated themselves (*), or were killed.
(*) Only for Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrianists.
Paul
Historically, Islamic shariah ONLY applied to muslims. This has been the case with the Arabs (Ummayad and Abbasids), The Ottomans in Asia minor (Millet system) and the Moghuls of India. The only time non muslims were subject to Shariah laws were in the case of capital offenses like insulting Muhammad. or committing murder. Quoting the Quran in a vacum isn’t helping your case, especially if you remain ignorant of Islamic history after Muhammad’s death.
You seem to have a hard time wrapping your head around this so let me explain it differently. Medieval Islam in practice bore a close resemblance to the People’s Republic of China today ie, one country, two systems. Shariah for Muslims, the dominant majority while religious autonomy for second class citizens like Christians and Muslims. Even Bernard Lewis has admitted this if you care to read his books to educate yourself on the subject. Don’t let SJWs tell you that Lewis was anti Islam, he was tough but fair as a historian.
Having said all of this I’m not trying to open the door for Muslims. They have their corner of the globe and the Christian west has every right to close their borders to protect their way of life. I like the fact that muslims are a minority and I prefer they stay that way, though that’s not up to me.
It is the same command that drives groups like Al-Qaida, ISIS, Boko Haram, etc.
The only thing that drives these groups is CIA funding – which also drove groups like the contras and other mass murderers in Latin America during the 50s and 60s. The answers lie in geopolitics and history, and not in the demented apocalyptic fantasies of evangelical fruitcakes.
@Dotan : ” Shariah for Muslims, the dominant majority while religious autonomy for second class citizens like Christians and Muslims. ”
Oh really? And how did this religious autonomy look like? Could they build churches? Spread their religion as a religious duty? Try to convert others to Christianity? You are a liar.
Muslims were never second class citizens to begin with. So you’re wrong again.
@Dotan: “Historically, Islamic shariah ONLY applied to muslims.”
The whole idea to separate a state into Mphammedans and second-class citizens IS Shariah.
Wikipedia: “Under sharia, the dhimmi communities were usually subjected to their own special laws, and exempt from some laws applicable to the Muslim community.”
“The dhimma contract is an integral part of traditional Islamic sharia.”
Shariah was the overall law, to which ALL were subject, not only Mohammedans. The Mohammedan religious duties dictated by Shariah are only a small part of it.
As for your remark on the use of an “isolated verse” of the Quran; the exact same verse was/is used by Mohammedan scholars to defend the dhimmi status and jizya tax to be paid.
Paul
Oh really? And how did this religious autonomy look like? Could they build churches? Spread their religion as a religious duty? Try to convert others to Christianity? You are a liar.
I didn’t say it was paradise genius, imperialism seldom is and Islamic imperialism was just as brutal and ugly as they come. Christians and Jews were second class citizens and I mentioned that numerous times, but they had the autonomy to run their own courts and handle their own affairs. Read up on the millet system. This has been documented by primary and secondary sources and historians do not dispute this.
Muslims were never second class citizens to begin with. So you’re wrong again.
I meant to say Christians and Jews. That was a typo and I was hoping you’d be smart enough to pick up on that given the content of my previous posts. Rest assured I won’t be making any further assumptions about your intelligence again.
The whole idea to separate a state into Mphammedans and second-class citizens IS Shariah. Shariah was the overall law, to which ALL were subject, not only Mohammedans. The Mohammedan religious duties dictated by Shariah are only a small part of it.
Once again you’re wrong. The schools of jurisprudence spend a great deal of time focused on religious practices. Try reading Shafi, Hanafi, Maliki, and Hanbali and see for yourself. Most of shariah is focused on personal, family, marriage, and inheritance laws. Only a small number of verses in the Quran talk about hacking of limbs and heads in comparison. Try reading surahs al Maidah and Nisaa and see for yourself. Islam is complicated, but you wouldn’t know that if the source of your education is Ayaan Hirsi’s twitter feed.
The fact that evangelicals spend so much time spinning their demented apocalyptic fantasies about Islam instead of combating feminism and Marxism indicates what a bunch of tools they are. Or perhaps they rag on Islam as a face saving gesture to cover their impotence at combating Marxism and feminism. Either way, picking on low IQ muslims while other high IQ minorities seize your institutions is utterly retarded. But whites are free to set their own priorities. Good luck.
@Dotan
Next to insulting, you are twisting and avoiding.
D: “but you wouldn’t know that if the source of your education is Ayaan Hirsi’s twitter feed.”
Well you don’t know my education, do you?
D: “I didn’t say it was paradise genius”
No you said religious autonomy. Which means religious groups were able to govern themselves, at least in religious affairs. Which is and was in general not true, both historically, and nowadays. Bringing in paradise doesn’t change that.
D: “Only a small number of verses in the Quran talk about hacking of limbs and heads in comparison.”
So what? The Quran is eternal and cannot be modified. It is good enough to show how it was applied in the Days of Mohammed. We have ample of evidence for that. One verse is all it takes to kill hundred thousands of innocents.
I don’t care if there are certain schools of interpretation, all we have to look at is how it turned out in major parts of islam, both historically and nowadays. The concept of ‘dhimmi’ is part of shariah. The ‘jizya’ is part of shariah.
If you want to gamble which flavor of shariah will dominate the west, to argue that we do not worry, you’re diverting the issue. And by trying to argue that all will be well for Christians, Jews, atheists and polytheists, you are being dishonest.
We all know that the version of islam as taught in Saudi Arabia (Wahhabism) has the most strict interpretation which looks very much like 7th century islam. Try asking Christians what it is like to live in Saudi Arabia. Good luck trying to find a church over there. Even though ~2 million Christians live there.
That same Wahhabism is spread across the globe, funding mosques and organizations. Do you think if these people get a majority vote, they will opt for a different version of Shariah than the version of Saudi Arabia?
Next to insulting, you are twisting and avoiding.
You attacked me by calling me a liar when I was debating in good faith. I was civil up until that point.
No you said religious autonomy.
That’s right I did, and I even linked you sources to show you that it was so. Your only response to that has been “But but it wasn’t true!” I never said it was perfect autonomy but by medieval standards it was certainly as good as it got. Even Bernard Lewis of all people acknowledged that. Similarly, the British empire treated their overseas subjects relatively well, as imperialists go. But does that mean I’m now endorsing British colonialism by acknowledging this? My grandfather was quite well treated during the British raj but even he wasn’t sorry to see them leave. The world isn’t black and white.
. The concept of ‘dhimmi’ is part of shariah. The ‘jizya’ is part of shariah.
In the grand scheme of things all subjects in the caliphate are under the system of Shariah like all the citizens of Hong Kong are under the Chinese Communist Party. I never disputed this which is why I drew that specific analogy to begin with. But the bulk of sharia that governs the daily lives of Muslims will not affect non-muslims just as the policies of the CPP that affect mainland China do not affect the average joe in Hong Kong (with some exceptions). That was how this discussion started to begin with – that sharia wouldn’t impact feminism in Christian circles. If the church was cucked before Islam, you can be assured it will remain cucked during Islamic rule too.
And by trying to argue that all will be well for Christians, Jews, atheists and polytheists, you are being dishonest.
Did I say all would be well? This is what I actually said:
“The caliphate would be the worst of both worlds – white christians would become second class citizens in their own land and they’d still have to endure feminism. ”
https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2018/05/10/he-wipes-his-feet-and-eats-what-he-is-served/#comment-270113
You misquote me and then accuse me of dishonesty? That’s some serious chutzpah
What’s funny is that fundamentally, we’re in agreement – the west does not need more muslims because their values and way of life are incompatible with Western civilization on a macro level. That goes for all third world immigration. The west has every MORAL RIGHT to remain majority white and christian. It’s just that I approach this through a realist’s lens while you’re coming in from the animated guide to world history edited for evangelicals. Anyhow, this discussion has been a complete waste of time and I’m done.
@Dota: “In the grand scheme of things all subjects in the caliphate are under the system of Shariah”
Thank you for acknowledging that.
@Dota: “I never said it was perfect autonomy but by medieval standards it was certainly as good as it got.”
My point was under shariah what you call religious autonomy for Christian does not involve what we normally mean if we say religious autonomy:
– no showing of crosses in public
– no ringing of bells, or visible or audible presence
– no building of churches, repairs only after approval
– no criticizing of islam (which includes telling other the gospel as Christians are commanded)
– no conversion of people from islam to Christianity (which prevents the command to make people into disciples)
– death penalty for converts from islam to Christianity
In practice life for Christian under CURRENT shariah law is in many cases hard, and people are being persecuted for being Christian.
And therefore, if shariah is becoming dominant in democratic countries, especially if it is of the Wahhabi flavor, we loose religious autonomy and religious freedom as we know it.
Paul is correct if you are looking at pure historical evidence that we have from the 3 major Caliphates we have seen come out of Islam in the last 1,200 years:
The original Islamic caliphate from the Arabs, run out of Saudi Arabia and Iraq; the Turkish Caliphate (called the Ottoman Empire in the West); and ISIS.
All 3 have this in common:
*All non-Muslims are 3rd class citizens called Dhimmin. Muslim women are 2nd class citizens. Non-Muslim children, often the firstborn males are force into military service and force-converted into Islam. This was how the Jannisary force was created during Ottoman Empire; it was almost all Christian boys forced into military service. This is called a “blood tax”, meaning, forced slavery. Non-Muslims are FORCED to pay extra taxes for merely existing, which is a form of subjugation and lower citizenship.
*Slavery is practiced, common, and widespread. Libya, which is still occupied and many regions are still controlled by ISIS recruits that fled Syria and Iraq into Libya (thanks, Hillary!) are still running, to this very day, open air slave markets in their capital. This is done out in the open, because it is lawful under Sharia Law (Islamic law, straight out of the Koran and the Hadith).
If you want a better understanding of the slave trade under Islam and the Ottoman Empire, you need to read the book “White Gold”, by Giles Milton. It is a true story of a Irish slave and the 1 million Europeans that were sold into slavery, prostitution, and death.
*Sharia law is imposed on EVERYONE. This fantasy that Sharia only applies to Muslims is absurd. It is propaganda we get from Islamist groups in the West, like CAIR, a pro-Jihadist “peace” front. ISIS, the latest Islamic Caliphate was a Sharia Law state and Christians, Yazidis, and all sorts of non-Muslims were brutally persecuted, killed, raped, sold into slavery, etc.
*Islam means “submission”, not peace. Mohammed was a known child pedophile, slave-trader, and warlord. He forced those under Islam to submit to this teachings, often by violence or force.
*Islam requires the death of the Jews today, because the Haddiths (the sayings of “the prophet” Muhammed order the killing of all Jews today. The Muslim world has been for well over 200 years a failed society, marred in ignorance, poverty, and 3rd world conditions. They are highly radicalized and blame all their problems on the West, Jews, America, and Israel. The death of the Jews is now standard Islamic teaching in mosques. Just listen to Louis Farrakhan speak any day and he openly calls for the death of all whites, all Jews, and all the forced conversion of America into an Islamic country.
*Islam teaches 3 types of war eve to impose its religion on the world: covert war (subterfuge), open war (which they have used until the end of the Ottoman Empire after WWI), and immigration-based domination. They are clearly doing the latter, since they are mass invading stupid and naive Western countries and having 7-10 kids per couple. This type of invasion by immigration is critical, since the current crop of Islamic countries are failed 3rd world countries, save for the very tiny ruling class at the top.
Bottom line: any Christian who wishes for an Islamic dominance of the West, including America, for the sake of ending radical feminism is fighting on the wrong side of history and wrong side of Christ. That is like wishing for end of all mosquitoes by wishing nuclear war on the whole planet which will end mosquitoes, but bring Hell upon everyone at same time. 🙄 Think about it, folks.
Ps. If anyone doubts that Sharia Law applies to everyone in Muslim countries and Sharia Law societies, just have a woman you know wear a skirt in Saudi Arabia or have a woman go outside alone in Iran and see what happens. The Islamic “modesty police” will come out and beat the woman severely on the street immediately. The nationality or religion of the woman is totally irrelevant.
Does anyone remember the Norwegian woman who was raped in Dubai (supposedly a “moderate” Islamic country). She is NOT Muslim, and yet because she did not have 4 male witnesses to her rape as required by Islamic law (Sharia), she was sentenced to jail and 50 lashes.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/18/dubai-woman-raped-jailed-extramarital-sex/2554045/
How about the Dutch woman jailed in Qatar (another supposedly moderate Islamic country)? This woman is not Muslim at all, she is not even from Qatar, and yet Sharia Laws applied to her.
https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/middleeast/qatar-dutch-woman-rape-report-jail/index.html
We are already seeing this in Europe. In Malmo, Sweden (the country’s 3rd largest city, foreign Muslim population almost 40% thanks to “refugees welcome” policies), the Islamists are already running Sharia Law tribunals without authorization of Swedish govt. Non-Muslims have reported being dragged into these “tribunals” and receiving beatings as sentences on the spot. The police, fire, and medical services already cannot go into these areas, now Called “No Go Zones”. Girls are sexually assaulted in public, and if refuse Islamic man, they get beaten.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5329777/Teen-hit-bottle-rejecting-man-groped-her.html
Cologne Germany, over 2,000 rapes on New Year’s Eve on the streets, all in public. The German govt hid the news until RT News exposed the scandal.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/07/12/cologne-sex-attacks-2000-attackers-120-suspects/
Some of the Muslims arrested said in their country and Islamic religion, any woman not covered in Islamic garb is a “whore” and thus can be raped legally. Also, they explained non-Muslims to them are 3rd class citizens, similar to cattle, so they can be attacked with impunity. The German cucks. Immediately felt threatened by these statements due to their SJW “cultural sensitivities”, so that is why they hid the rapes.
I could go on and on, but you get the point. Islamic countries = Sharia Law = forced Islamic laws on every aspect of everyone’s life, regardless of their nationality or religion. Non-Muslims will be treated like animals, have no rights, are forced to pay extra taxes, have their kids sent into forced military service, and many other abuses.
Anyone who believes Sharia only applies to Muslims and everyone else has “Special freedoms” is kidding themselves, willfully or by lack of understanding of what Islam and Sharia. Law truly is. 😦
“Circular firing squad”
Sadly true.