I see from a CBN youtube video titled Worth the wait from March 8, 2019 that Wendy Griffith is now married:
CBN’s newly married Wendy Griffith and author of You Are a Prize to be Won! says it’s possible to live an abundant single life while you’re waiting for the right one.
In the video (below) she holds her long time frame, that God’s plan was for her to remain unmarried until her mid fifties, and that other women should follow her lead and never settle. This reinforces the fact that conservative Christian feminism outdoes even secular feminism, as secular feminist women are warning marriage delaying women to settle in their thirties, when the settling is good.
Still, I think if most of the women reading her book understood how long Wendy actually ended up waiting they would be horrified. As pleased as Wendy no doubt is to finally marry (and as pleased as I am for her), I don’t think many young women would be comforted in their season of singleness to hear that they will marry a 59 year old man when they are 54*.
Either way, while this new feminist life model allowed Wendy to focus her youth on having an exciting high powered career, it rules out having children and goes against the Apostle Paul’s clear instruction in 1 Cor 7. Moreover, very few women will remain as attractive as Wendy has into their 50s. Modern conservative Christians are selling an absolutely poisonous life script to young women, and outside of the Christian Men’s Sphere and Lori Alexander I can find no pushback against it. To the contrary, what we see instead is hand wringing that weak men are screwing feminism up when the effects of the poison become noticeable.
Surprisingly, I don’t see any reference to her being married either in her CBN bio or her self description on Twitter.
Jesus Follower, Kilimanjaro Summiter, Co-Host of the 700 Club, News Anchor for the Christian Broadcasting Network & Author of You Are a Prize to be Won!
With that said, obviously it isn’t a secret that she is married, but she isn’t broadcasting his name so I’ll avoid further speculation on who he might be. As promised above, here is the video:
*Assuming she married “Bill” that she referenced in this podcast. Note that I originally had the ages incorrect in my last post at 55 and 60, instead of 54 and 59.
Related: Devouring a lifetime of courtship.
Mazel tov! She rode the (Christian) carousel longer than most women could hope to.
Great. Her new hubby gets to enjoy her menopause.
500 years ago she’d be burned as a witch. 1000 years ago she’d be in a nunnery or running a brothel. 1500 years ago she’d be slaughtered by a Vandal, since she wouldn’t be any use for siring children.
She rode the carousel so long that the paint on that plastic cock got worn off.
2000 years ago, she may have been taken in with Levirate marriage from her brother in law who took pity on her.
“but she isn’t broadcasting his name”
****************************
So… she didn’t change her name? She’s not “Mrs….?”
And women usually shout to the world they are engaged.
Things that make you go “hmmmm…”
Does God even give a shit about sexual sin between members of AARP?
It’s clown world everywhere all the time! I’d guess I would still climb on top of her, but few women in their 50’s look that good. Then there is the issue pleasantness. Oh well, you go girl!!!
Nope, not even that. Hahaha!
Only slightly off topic. Dalrock, if you think this will hijack the thread, please remove. Copypasted from the previous post.
__________
Remember Jacqueline Halbig von Schleppenbach? She caused something of a stir in these parts about 4 or 5 years ago when she, at 44, married one Greg Schleppenbach, 49. First marriage for both. Touted as proof that you can find love, even late.
Mrs. von Schleppenbach has weighed in with her own opinions on what you do when you’re in your 40s and unmarried.
https://aleteia.org/2019/05/22/the-secret-to-finding-love-when-youre-painfully-single/
What struck me is pretty much the same euphemistic passages we often see from older women, including older Christian women, when discussing their youthful efforts. I’ll leave it here, and you can draw your own conclusions as to what she’s talking about. Note in particular the italicized statements. Mrs. von Schleppenbach:
_________
One of the questions I hear the most is: What did you do to remain hopeful? To be honest, I just kept putting one foot in front of the other and struggled nearly every step of the way. I focused on things I loved doing and made the most of my freedom to travel, earned my master’s degree at night, and trained for a couple of marathons.
Additionally, and not nearly as glamorous, I exhausted every single bad possibility for a life partner – mostly because I was not truly listening to my heart. If I had taken a serious look at some of the men I was preoccupied with, I would have had to acknowledge that they were bad for me, but I had formed unhealthy attachments that were difficult to break and I was afraid nothing else would work out.
It was a long, arduous, and sometimes agonizing journey that led me to my own personal surrender — and happiness. I realized that what I was doing wasn’t good for my soul and I was tired enough of the frustration and poor decisions to finally surrender this great quest of mine. My spiritual director guided me to pray every day, Lord, help me to be open to the love that you have to send me, today. This prayer convinced me that only God could provide the loving acceptance and peace that my heart craved. It was this true surrender of my heart that caused me to become aware of just how blessed I was by the magnanimous gifts of grace, friends, family, and God’s perfect provision, that surrounded me already. I had finally arrived at a peace — a long and hard-fought peace. I could relate to the words of St. Augustine: “My heart was restless until it found rest in you, O God.”
_________________
Again: Draw your own conclusions as to how she “exhausted every single bad possibility for a life partner” and what she means by “unhealthy attachments” and the meaning of “what I was doing wasn’t good for my soul” and what “poor decisions” she was making.
Heck yeah! She pulled it off! Way to go Wendy! Proud of you!
She rode it, milked it for millions of dollars, book deals and a big following; and still was taken away by a man who paid full price. I guess we can say that she is like a classic, vintage car. Far more expensive now than when it was new.
Btw, Greg Schleppenbach and his wife, now Jacqueline Halbig von Schleppenbach (note the German version of the hyphenated last name, she has kept her maiden name “Halbig”) are Roman Catholic. He is on the staff of the US Council of Catholic Bishops. She has been a prominent conservative consultant in WDC for many years.
An important thing to point out is that much of this advice (Just keep going, and pray) is little comfort to the average 40 something woman. Mrs. von Schleppenbach is much like Wendy Griffith: Extremely attractive for her age, and wealthy in her own right. These women are way, way, WAY above average in eveyr way: material wealth, physical attractiveness, intelligence, education, access to men, access to power and influence. Women like Griffith and von Schleppenbach do not have to marry, so they marry only men they WANT to marry. Something tells me this won’t be much help to the Anna Hitchingses of the world.
Where’s the advice to, you know, do something to find suitable men? Where’s the advice to put yourself out there and screen men? How about doing everything you can to improve your physical appearance? How about enlisting others’ help in finding men? What about that good, practical, pragmatic advice? It all just comes down to platitudes: “Just keep going, and pray.” Well, when it comes to finding men, women have to do those things AND actively look. It does no good to tell women to do next to nothing, other than “do the stuff you like doing, travel, and, oh yeah, pray some.”
Wendy is an example of the blind leading the blind. Rebuke her.
The average 40 something never married Christian woman is about 20 pounds overweight, and looks and dresses in an average nonglamorous way. She works a shitty, demanding job and has for at least 15 years (much like her male cohorts). She goes home beat to shit every day after work. She consumes more calories than she should, especially with her every other day half-bottle of red wine after work.
She vacations once a year in remote locations, and has maybe $5000 in savings. She is living mostly paycheck to paycheck. She’s got some friends, some married, some divorced. She does go to church regularly. She’s not a virgin. Her N is anywhere from 2 to 6, one of whom was a serious boyfriend she met while working but it didn’t work out.
And along come the glamorous Ms. Griffith and Mrs von Schleppenbach with advice of “you just keep going girl” and “oh yeah, make sure you pray”.
Real helpful.
Somehow I think he’ll survive. He’s probably going to be able to get her to give him a way more active and better sex life than most of his peers and he can easily pretend she’s 35-42.
Ah, nope. The pearl of great price does not do such things. No, no, no! Such silly nonsense, a pearl merely waits to be found. You need to listen to Wendy, she’s got her A-game down, tight. She waited to 54, fifty fucking four, being that much greater compared to the average pearl. And Bill’s prize? A truly dazzling pearl, with millions of dollars in the bank but no eggs to fry.
You’re being more desperate than Anna Hitchings on a first date.
There are only two ways to grow the Kingdom of God here on earth:
1. Get married and make 4 or more babies and raise them in church. (Don’t believe that 2.1 number, currently in the West, 3 is just replacement.)
2. Win new people to Christ and bring them into the church.
Wendy, Mandy, Lisa, and many others are actively sabotaging Method #1.
The lucky (HA!) dude is not the one in that rustic house from the last post. I went to her facebook feed and she did have a posting about the wedding. According to Linkedin, he is executive VP at a small bank.
https://www.facebook.com/bill.susewind
Isn’t this really nothing more than shameless advocacy for Christians of this ilk to go extinct? Failing to provide the God you purportedly revere with a next generation of worshipers is an affront that seems unjustifiable. Especially when that absence of offspring occurs in the pursuit of earthly self-satisfaction.
It’s one thing to be a selfish single, it’s another to hold that status out as Holy Guidance from the Father Himself.
@thedeti
In regard to 40 something Churchians:
N count is underestimated by 66% on low and high values.
Every “Remote location vacation” is +1.
Only “Relationships” with an average life of 4-8 months count toward official N
Ah, the good old days
She won’t show him to the world and she said “Bill didn’t come in the package I thought he’d come in…” She settled.
@Bee
This is actually an inbuilt vulnerability to Christianity, thanks to Paul. Christianity was 100% conversion based, but after the initial generations Paul’s prejudice toward sex and marriage was in direct conflict with biology, culture, and nationalism. Christian leaders that came afterwards produced a rule and law based structure that normalized marriage, and used christian community pressure to maintain compliance. Early Christian churches were very different than what we know now and needed to take on longer term views on growing Christianity. This statement is simply for a background summary.
The Enlightenment and Protestantism broke much of that control structure. We are in the end stages, with remaining cultural controls destroyed by the application of secular law to the benefit of pressure group warfare.
Christianity was about conversion, the fruits of which are rotting.
Does it not say somewhere in the Good Book ‘Go forth and …… multiply’. Griffiths marriage although lovely and all that is really little different from Queer Marriage as neither can multiply. We are asked to believe it is identical to real marriage but it obviously isn’t. God does not if I understand him correctly want you to find ‘the one’ but wants you to find ‘one and procreate’. I am thus also reminded of the good Doctor Johnson whose view was that marriages should be arranged by the Lord Chancellor without reference to the wishes of either party for he thought there was no reason why such an arrangement would produce less successful or less unhappy marriages than the usual system. He had greater faith in the Lord Chancellor than do I but even so.
I don’t find Wendy as physically attractive as some here apparently do, even for her age.
On TV and book covers, she uses makeup, lighting, soft focus lenses, and Photoshop. I know the tricks. I’ve worked in film production. I’ve seen some of the “beautiful people” up close, on sound stages, before and after applying makeup, and under the harsh glare of hallway lights.
And I’ve seen some of Wendy’s photos online, the ones that haven’t been doctored. I’ve posted one photo here a few months ago. She doesn’t look that good, or in her 40s.
I give him 6 months. Tops.
@ thedeti
That’s an unrealistically low estimate.
@vfm7916
Although there are a lot of conversion stories and a lot of crisis conversions in the New Testament, if you look at 2 Timothy 1:5, you’ll see that Paul credits the solid religious instruction of Timothy’s grandmother Lois and his mother Eunice in bringing Timothy, Paul’s adopted son in the faith, to Christ.
Mothers have failed America. They have not done the job required of them for something like 2 Timothy 3:15 happen; they have failed to be Titus 2:3-4 elder women to their daughters.
Some nice old lady of the church should have taken and shaken these numbskulls and told them to find and husband up some man of the congregation, even if he wore a brown belt with black shoes or couldn’t figure out how to get a respectable haircut or if he worked at a chicken processing plant and smelled like it.
Does it expressly say she married a man or even another person? Not a safe assumption in the Current Year.
Oscar:
I was trying to be generous and magnanimous.
@ Red Pill Latecomer
No matter how you slice it, she’s a hell of a lot better looking than the average American woman in her 50s. Plus, she has a far cushier career, and a far more exciting life than the average American woman in her 50s.
https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js
The average woman who follows Wendy’s advice won’t have a glamorous, high-paying career, she won’t spend her free time backpacking exotic locations around the world, and she won’t look nearly as good doing it.
The average woman who follows Wendy’s advice will work a boring, mindless, mid-paying cubicle job, spend her free time with her cats, and look like a potato doing it. That’s why Wendy’s advice is so cruel.
@ thedeti
You’re a kinder man than I.
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No matter how you slice it, she’s a hell of a lot better looking than the average American woman in her 50s.
That’s clear, yes, but she doesn’t look “35-42”, as has been suggested upthread. That’s absurd. She’s very attractive for a woman in her mid 50s, though.
Perfection is the enemy of the good. And generally, the longer you hold out for perfection, the worse the good gets.
I’d like to hear this “super-Christian” woman justify discarding her God-given ability to bear children. Or being alone for three decades when she probably had a number of chances to marry and have a happy, fulfilling married life, growing a family, now preparing for grandchildren.
There’s nothing wrong with her getting married. But somewhere, out there, are probably a number of men God gave her the green light to marry–and she kicked ’em to the curb. Chances are, if she felt that way, so did her peer-sisters, and nobody else married them, either–not “ideal” enough. How does she, along with her cohort of perfection seekers, justify that?
@Nathan
Text says faith. “Paul credits the solid religious instruction” is not equal to faith. Further, Grandmother and mother would be jewish, not Christian, as would their instruction. Timothy would have converted, though like Paul he would have been trained in jewish law and religious practice.
Faith, though, is not instruction, obedience to law, or evidence of works. Faith is the basis for conversion. Just as works without faith is emptiness, so is faith without works, like most Churchian practice these days.
Gotta have the combination, which is why Christians have to turn inward and focus on building the Church from within than Conversion from without. You can’t do that building when you have a foundation built on the sand of feminism and chivalry.
How does the evangelical world rationalize a young person’s sex drive during the season of singleness? If Wendy is being honest, she needs to talk about her N count. Biblically speaking, she is “married” to the first man she had sex with and committed adultery with every subsequent man she had sex with. After all, the title of this segment is “unhooking” from the hookup world.
Also, I’m willing to bet her husband is likely a divorcee, somewhat loser type of guy. My Aunt was a divorcee and has been through the ringer of the 50-60s christian dating world. Probably 60% of the still-somewhat-handsome men joining the bible studies are wolves looking for a nice retirement meal-ticket from a high powered women or divorcee with a fat stash from her settlement. In a way, it’s kind of a fitting match. They deserve each other. Usually the men have some flair – typical traits – 1) used to be a worship leader [big red flag], 2) Always volunteers to amog with massive prayers that easily fool the churchian women, etc.
Also, I’ve noticed one sick thing with this season of singleness thing:
Women: “We’re going to hold out and maybe have sex with a few bad men that we can later ask for forgiveness for and have a come-to-jesus, beta-bait, white-knight-drawing story at our church group.
AFC Christian man: “So I have to wait 9 years to have sex in a marriage?”
Women: “Yes, but we secretly know you’re all porn addicts so don’t hold our season of sluttery against us. Porn is technically an affair you know!”
So, Darlock, I’m actually extremely curious. I never read much about evangelical pastors talking about men’s fornication or what men are supposed to do in their 20s now. Just total sexual eunuch status? It’s usually just Porn, Porn, Porn from most pastors. Most likely due to the fact most beta christian men couldn’t hookup on tinder anyway. But, I’m really curious. It seems the church has now taken the position that porn+masturbation during this season of singleness is actually worse than a single man hooking up with women and fornicating during this season of singleness. And we certainly know which actions the single churchian women respect more. What is a young man to do, and are both equally sinful biblically?
@ Novaseeker
Frankly, she’s more attractive than most American women between 35 and 42.
I don’t know if that’s an indictment of the average American woman, or a testament to Wendy (I suspect the former), but either way, it doesn’t matter. The average is what it is, regardless of why it is that way.
As I noted above, the point is that Wendy is an extreme outlier, not just in looks, but in her career and leisure activities. The average woman reading her book, and watching her videos can’t expect to have anywhere near the looks, the career, or the leisure time Wendy has had.
That makes Wendy’s advice more cruel, not less.
What is a young man to do, and are both equally sinful biblically?
I think there are quite a few people who do think that way.
The sphere used to have a Catholic commenter named Zippy, who tragically passed away in a car crash a year or so ago. Zippy believed, strongly, that unmarried men and unmarried women were committing essentially the same sin against chastity in different ways — that is women were having sex outside marriage and men were masturbating to endless porn images — and that one shouldn’t make a very sharp distinction between the two behaviors from a moral perspective because the main reason most of the men aren’t having sex is because they can’t manage to get a woman to have sex with, not due to moral scruples, and they are sinning against chastity in the way that is most available to them (as women are doing with sex, because sex is very easily available to almost all young women). Lots of people disagreed with him, of course, but I think that perspective is more widespread among particularly older male Christians regardless of denomination.
I bet you caused this dalrock. If you weren’t harping on her all the time she wouldn’t have settled and might have still married her prince. Bill “probably gobbles the knob” susewind will be revealed as satan’s own temptation, and she’ll divorce him.
Before anyone denies her knowing who dalrock is people this obsessed with themselves read everything about themselves
Oscar, Instagram uses filters to alter photos in any manner of ways.
Yes, Wendy looks good in that photo. I’ve seen photos of her in which she looks worse. One of those photos — the good and the bad — must be more accurate than the other. I suspect the bad photos are more accurate.
You can see a photo of Wendy from May 2017 — two years ago — on this thread: https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2018/07/31/what-happened-to-our-men-that-our-women-are-forced-to-have-such-big-dicks/
Well, keep in mind that most classic cars are heavily restored. Yeah, she’s an outlier, but the wall takes no prisoners. Her time will come, and it will probably be sooner than later.
Never underestimate the power of a good makeup artist and a skilled photographer (with the help of photoshop) to produce a killer glam shot.
My wife had some headshots taken by a local photographer for her birthday a few years ago. Even though she doesn’t wear makeup she looked stunningly good in them. Now imagine had she used a professional make up artist and a real pro with the camera. She probably would have looked good enough to be on TV.
She probably would have looked good enough to be on TV.
The main thing is that you have to be quite thin because cameras fatten you. So when someone looks slender on camera they typically look very thin off camera. Someone who is normal looking in real life will look a bit chunky on camera so people get picky with camera angles in particular and lighting, but in general people you see on TV who look slender often look quite skinny off camera. Face, of course, is all makeup and lighting.
Well, keep in mind that most classic cars are heavily restored.
As someone who restores vintage cars as a serious hobby, I can tell you….the classics look good, but most are fragile, unreliable, and cannot compete in the driving experience with anything built in the last 10-15 years.
@ Red Pill Latecomer
All of which are available to the average 35–>42-year-old American woman, most of whom look worse than Wendy.
Here’s the photo you referenced.
Even with that awkward non-pose, she still looks better than the average 35–>42-year-old American woman, because the average 35–>42-year-old American woman is shaped like a russet potato.
But, again, you seem to be missing my point. My point is that the vast majority of American women will not have Wendy’s looks, or her glamorous career, or her exotic vacations. Therefore, Wendy’s advice is even more cruel when given to the average American woman than it is when given to an outlier like Wendy.
Down with @Oscar on this one.
I fly a lot for work. 1/3 of women I see are obese, 1/3 are significantly overweight, and another 10-15% are not really fit.
So 20% maybe are somewhat thin and fit. Of that 20% less than maybe half make much effort to dress well and appear feminine.
This is the vacuum into which women like Wendy step in: fit, not fat, feminine.
So she looks gorgeous to us (well not to me, I prefer tall, thin blondes). Seriously, any thin or fit women I see in the airport is automatically attractive even if her face is not that great.
Thanks feminism!
I guess it couldn’t have been Buffalo Bill from Pungo Prairie in the last thread after all. I looked at the interview video and she was taller than him with both of them wearing cowboy boots. Surely Wendy didn’t do all that waiting, hiking and mountain climbing in foreign lands, just to end up with a shorter man. Sorry Pungo Bill. Or congratulations on not making the cut. I don’t know how he feels about it.
Here are some stats on the average American woman (AAW). The AAW is a size 16. Did you get that? The AAW is a size freaking 16!
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/17543266.2016.1214291?journalCode=tfdt20&
The measurements of the AAW are:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/body-measurements.htm
A 39-freaking-inch waist?! Are you freaking kidding me?! I’m 43, male, 6’0″, and 205 lb, and my waist is 4 inches smaller than that!
So, what does a size 16 look like? Feast your eyes, gents.
She’s from England, not the US, but a size 16 at 5’6″, and 42-years-old, which is pretty close to average for an American woman, but 2.4″ taller, which actually helps hide some weight.
So, who looks better? Ms Average at 42, or Wendy at 53? Keep in mind that Ms. Average’s photo is from “The Sun”, which means she had a professional hair stylist, makeup artist, and wardrobe person to make her look her absolute best.
Once again: when a woman like Wendy tells Ms. Average that she can have a life as glamorous as Wendy’s if she follows Wendy’s life script, that is nothing more than cruelty.
She’s a self-absorbed barren dead womb misleading young Christian women into her err while making false theological assertions to cover up what she’s done. If may not even hold together. Wendy, the so-called “marriage expert” that teaches women God doesn’t want them to marry until their wombs are dead. Sure, and I’m a giraffe.
Dammit Oscar.
You just ruined our entire weekend!
Let’s all go to Brazil!!!
@ constrainedlocus
I’m the life of every party.
[T]he average 35–>42-year-old American woman is shaped like a russet potato.
Russet potatoes have more pleasant personalties.
Oscar. Size 16! My eyes! My eyes!
Its even worse though. Mychael does a lot of designing and sewing her own stuff, and asked for this antique SIZE 10 dress form to make dresses for herself. At 46, (and 4 four babies in the last 10 years) she is actually a size 6/8 as seen in this photo from less than a year ago.
But a size 10 was tiny way back when this was made, so the size thing is relative to the history of dress sizes.
@vfm7916
Its always about being born again. To receive the holy spirit upon true faith.
No one is christian by birth.
Vegas is now working the odds on Mandy Hale. Wendy Griffith is 14 or so years older than Mandy and has locked down her man-in-waiting.
Will Mandy feel the pressure to get on with it herself, or will this merely confirm for her that she has 14 more years of fun and adventure before sticking the landing?
Place your bets.
confirm for her that she has 14 more years of fun and adventure before sticking the landing?
I’m picking this, although it’s a bet for her as well. She may not hold up as well as Griffith did physically. Some of that is work, some of it is genetics, some of it is makeup artists on demand. Hale has risks there as well. I’ve worked in the same place for a few decades and have observed quite a few women as they have aged from 35 to 55, and not everyone who is hot at 40 is hot at 53.
I might be wrong here, but I believe in catholic theology masturbation (which is against nature) is a worst sin than fornication (which is not).
Of course, this applies mostly to non-contraceptive fornication, which is probably the rarest form of sex nowadays)
Not sure if anyone else has asked this yet, but is there any point in women that age getting married? You’re too old to conceive and your sex drive is probably on the low side, especially if you’ve been immersed in the typically genophobic Evangelical movement.
On some level it is more spiritually dangerous because there is a much greater correlation between men adopting disgusting and depraved sexual interests from porn than from fornication. Porn + masturbation also is far worse for you body and mental wiring. You should also be aware of the fact a significant amount of porn is not just sinful, but depraved in the acts it depicts. Two articles that will really make the hair stand up on your neck:
View at Medium.com
View at Medium.com
I hadn’t heard of this Mandy Hale person. There’s a lot of intentional and unintentional self-disclosure on her site and blog. At a minimum, she’s dealing with diagnosed mental health issues. I hope she can get the help she needs. Until she does, I really hope she stays out of circulation. Some people really do need to be out of the mating game, and it’s good for them to be encouraged toward happiness (and hopefully harmlessness) in the single state.
@ feeriker
I can’t argue with that.
@ Scott
True. That reminds me of the time some celebrities claimed that Marilyn Monroe would be considered fat today. Here’s the truth.
http://themarilynmonroecollection.com/marilyn-monroe-true-size/
In what universe would a woman with a 24.5″ waist be considered fat, when the average woman’s waist measures 38.7″? Hell, even at her heaviest, her waist was 10.2″ smaller than the average woman’s waist today. The reason stupid women think Marilyn would be considered fat today is that, at her heaviest, she wore a size 14 dress. But, according to the Daily Mail, a size 14 back then would be a size 4 today.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3309052/Are-dress-size-denial-New-guideline-claims-curvy-Marilyn-Monroe-wear-size-8-today-Kim-Kardashian-18-1970s.html
Obviously, it’s unfair to compare Marilyn – a woman whose extraordinary beauty is still famous decades after her death – to the average woman of any day. But I’m not the one who chose to compare her to the average woman today. Stupid women decided to do that. I just played their game by their rules, and thereby demonstrated just how stupid, vain, and gullible they are.
Finally, don’t get cocky, gents. The average American man (AAM) ain’t doing much better.
According to the CDC, the AAM’s measurements are:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/body-measurements.htm
If this describes you, or if you’re even worse, quit whining about fat chicks and get your flabby ass in the squat rack. It doesn’t matter if you do it to impress women or not. Strength and fitness are their own reward.
@ Il Deplorevolissimo
In regards to the videos you posted, there’s nothing “strange” about the normalization of incest in porn. After all, “Game of Thrones” normalized incest on cable TV. Our culture is in the “depraved mind” phase of Romans 1, and therefore every perversion is now fair game.
@Oscar,
I don’t disagree. They’re two fairly-well researched articles that show how far down the rabbit hole the porn industry is today. I think a lot of men need to understand that porn has way more openings to outright depravity than ordinary fornication does. There’s a lot of truth to Rule 34, and almost all of where that leads is depravity.
I am of the opinion that legally tolerated prostitution is far less destructive than legally tolerated pornography. In today’s era of easy electronic payments, there’s no argument against it. The campus mattress can easily whip out her phone, tell beta boy to send her $50-$100 through Venmo and no one is victimized–just two people engaging in mutual sin.
Oscar: The reason stupid women think Marilyn would be considered fat today is that, at her heaviest, she wore a size 14 dress.
I don’t think Marilyn would be considered fat today. Today’s fat women merely say that so they can identify with Marilyn. “I’m fat the way Marilyn was fat. So Marilyn and I are pretty much alike in the looks category.” Yeah, sure you are.
Is anyone else seeing the ad “21discounts seniors get”? I think the guy in that ad is Wendy’s new husband.
Dalrock or other readers:
Is there a way to control the ads being shown? About 3 times now an ad has shown that actually hi-jacked the webpage, directing me to a page claiming that my McAfee subscription has expired… which is interesting since I have never had McAfee installed. If I try to hit “back” to return to the Dalrock article, the McAfee page just re-loads.
When the Google ad causes me to not be able to read the original webpage, this seems incredibly arrogant.
Webpage loaded was:
http://windowsappcenter.apps-centerzig.biz/pmtgw/fsqmfask302/?utm_source=dhara1&utm_pubid=18748da2-b6fc-4caa-8512-40dc5d96e2c4&x-context=wH1R40H4A5HUBVSM1V3Q980G&xm=r.awxgwomtxay.online
Il Deplorevolissimo
I don’t disagree. They’re two fairly-well researched articles that show how far down the rabbit hole the porn industry is today. I think a lot of men need to understand that porn has way more openings to outright depravity than ordinary fornication does. There’s a lot of truth to Rule 34, and almost all of where that leads is depravity.
I am of the opinion that legally tolerated prostitution is far less destructive than legally tolerated pornography. In today’s era of easy electronic payments, there’s no argument against it. The campus mattress can easily whip out her phone, tell beta boy to send her $50-$100 through Venmo and no one is victimized–just two people engaging in mutual sin.
If one’s a slippery slope, so is the other. Just like porn can lead down the rabbit hole, so can fornication, particularly prostitution in which people can simply use prostitutes to live out their depraved fantasies instead of using women on a screen. This is to say nothing of diseases and pregnancy.
@ Il Deplorevolissimo
I’m with Hank Flanders on this one. The Romans, the Greeks, and the Canaanites were into the kinds of perversions that are illegal today, and none of them ever had Porn Hub. The list includes pedorasty, necrophilia, and bestiality.
The slippery slope described in Romans 1 starts with denying God. Every perversion flows from that, and it doesn’t matter if the path flows through the sorority, the brothel or the internet.
Hank/Oscar,
My understanding, based on reading a decent bit about the issue, is that clinical observations tend to contradict what you said in implying it’s “six of one, half a dozen of the other.” Porn + masturbation over the long haul tends to resemble a drug addiction. That includes the need to keep pushing the boundaries to keep getting the same level of high off of it.
@ Il Deplorevolissimo
You base your beliefs on “clinical observations”, and I’ll base mine on Romans 1, Leviticus 18, and other historical sources on the perversions of the Canaanites, Greeks and Romans. Human nature doesn’t change, even when the vehicles through which it expresses itself do.
a BEAUTIFUL 35 year old ain’t as good as an ugly 18 year old
Great. Her new hubby gets to enjoy her menopause.
You guys are brutal. Be nice, guys!
I watched the interview of the new wife and frankly she hardly mentioned her husband other than to inform us that he is ‘Bill’. Indeed she spent most of the interview telling us how cruel her ex had been, waiting a year before dumping her. She also, I thought, implied, though she skirted the issue that she had in her twenties been a carousel rider. If she is married then exactly what kind of marriage is it?
Romans 1 doesn’t contradict what I said. All of those paths lead to Hell, but some are more like express lanes than others.
@ Opus
Desperate.
@ Dylan Sexton
I can’t say I agree with that. If she’s ugly at 18, can you imagine what she’ll look like at 35? 45? 55? You do have to look at your wife once in a while. Besides, if the man’s in his 40s, or older, a 35-year-old may fit him just fine.
Il Deplorevolissimo on,
Your comparison wasn’t between looking at porn and not looking at porn, though. Your comparison was between looking at porn and having sex with prostitutes. Have the studies compared those two things against each other to determine which one is more harmful? I don’t even know how they could, considering that anyone willing to engage with prostitutes is likely also looking at porn, anyway. Porn actors are just prostitutes you can’t touch. Prostitutes are just porn actors you can touch. It’s really weird how prostitution is illegal until there’s a camera there.
@ Il Deplorevolissimo
First, I never said that Romans 1 contradicted what you said. Second, Romans 1 ins’t the only text I referenced.
I don’t know for sure which road lead to Hell faster. I never stated that either of them did. My point is that they both lead to same place, and arguing about which one gets you there faster is – at best – unproductive, and probably counter-productive.
When the Holy Spirit, through the Apostle Paul, commanded us to “flee sexual immorality” (1 Cor 6), he didn’t specify what kind of sexual immorality we should flee. That leads me to believe it doesn’t much matter which form of sexual immorality happens to tempt any given individual. They all lead to Leviticus 18.
Could you point out where in the Catechism it says such a thing? It’s one thing for some “theologian” to say something and it’s quite another to sat that it’s church teaching.
Oscar,
I agree with you in general, but note that Romans 1 says that it is rejection of God as the Creator, not just God as God. Many Christians today deny God as Creator, whether they realize it or not, since they buy into the modern myth of particles-to-people Evolution.
@BillyS
I’ve never understood how a Christian can believe that humans weren’t always humans. Without the fall of Adam having occurred, and sin being present in all men as a result, from what does Christ save us?
@ BillyS
If God isn’t Creator, then He isn’t God. If He isn’t God, then He isn’t Creator. “Creator” is one of the fundamental aspects of God’s character, which is why The Apostles’ Creed begins…
It’s all the same. If you reject one, you reject the other, which is why people who reject God as Creator, eventually, inevitably reject God as God.
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How far above average Wendy looks for her age or even the damage she’s causing much younger impressionable women is beside the point. The two key elements are that 1) women *know* they shouldn’t be starting married life in their fifties. Many are stressing from college age on about getting undermined by younger, more attractive girls (see ‘SWUG’). They aren’t waiting out of ignorance, mostly, but out of a strategic bind, the difficulty of maximizing utility in one man. 2) older women as a group, and especially older female family members, aren’t enforcing the need to marry young on their junior compatriots. This should be reinforced by men too but has to start with women. I know Dalrock has stressed this many times.
Earlier this year I attended a first-time wedding for a 40+ bride — my first ever. The bride professes to be a Christian and wore a classically elegant white dress. She and her new husband are exceptionally well educated and she looks very good for her age, but they almost certainly won’t be able to have more than one child, if that, and no one seems to see where this is heading. Her parents are retired. She’s had a string of unsuccessfulnrelationships prior because she “always looks for the best in people,” a toast-giver said. In speeches at the reception, two family members openly haha-threatened the groom about treating her well. It was bizarre. And now absolutely normal.
@ Bart
It’s not the whole point, but it’s part of the point.
Wendy isn’t just selling late marriage. She’s selling a particular glamorous lifestyle. But Wendy’s glamorous lifestyle is based entirely on her career as a television presenter, which is based on her appearance and her talent. Even her book sales are based on her looks. Women wouldn’t have bought her books if she’d looked like Ms. Average I posted above.
The Ms. Average who buys Wendy’s books, however, will never have Wendy’s glamorous life, because she has neither Wendy’s looks, nor her talent. Instead, she’ll have a boring, mindless cubicle job, and a boring apartment full of cats. That’s what makes Wendy’s advice extra cruel.
@Oscar
Porn is filled with depraved and unnatural things today that are far uglier in terms of being an “unnatural abuse” of the human body than typical fornication.
Could you point out where in the Catechism it says such a thing? It’s one thing for some “theologian” to say something and it’s quite another to sat that it’s church teaching.
If the Catechism exhausted all of Catholic teaching, it wouldn’t take 7 years to become a priest.
One important thing, which I admit I did not emphasize enough, is that both are considered mortal sins that, if unrepented, will take you to hell. But the temporal punishment for sins against nature are more severe than the temporal punishment for sins which are not against nature.
Dante’s Hell, which is very much Tomist, puts adulterers in the 2nd Circle, whilst putting those who sin against nature in the 7th circle. St. Thomas Aquinas, the Universal Doctor, said:
Summa Theologiae, Pt. II-II, Q. 154, A. 11: “I answer that, As stated above (A6,9) wherever there occurs a special kind of deformity whereby the venereal act is rendered unbecoming, there is a determinate species of lust. This may occur in two ways: First, through being contrary to right reason, and this is common to all lustful vices; secondly, because, in addition, it is contrary to the natural order of the venereal act as becoming to the human race: and this is called “the unnatural vice.” This may happen in several ways. First, by procuring pollution, without any copulation, for the sake of venereal pleasure: this pertains to the sin of “uncleanness” which some call “effeminacy.” Secondly, by copulation with a thing of undue species, and this is called “bestiality.” Thirdly, by copulation with an undue sex, male with male, or female with female, as the Apostle states (Romans 1:27): and this is called the “vice of sodomy.” Fourthly, by not observing the natural manner of copulation, either as to undue means, or as to other monstrous and bestial manners of copulation.”
Ranger,
As far as I know it would need to be distinguished. Masturbation is worse than fornication in the sense that the former is contrary to nature in a way that the latter isn’t. However, I think Aquinas puts fornication worse than masturbation because it involves taking another person into mortal sin with you.
@Timfinnegan,
I think this is more of a case-by-case judgement, on the lines of Zippy Catholic’s criticism posted above, and final judgement is really up to the spiritual advisor.
If a young man had the opportunity for fornicating and decided not to and masturbate instead so as not to lead the young girl into temptation (perhaps he had a willing girlfriend, resisted because he believes fornication is wrong, and later fell into temptation and masturbated), that might be a less serious sin than fornication.
But if he is too lazy or unnatractive to find a fornicating partner, than “not tempting someone else to sin” is a poor excuse.
Ranger,
I was specifically dealing with the acts as moral objects; when you start throwing in intention and circumstances then there are no hard and fast rules for which is worse. Butbas objects, fornication is worse (more grave) than masturbation.
@info
Yep, and American Christian churches do a rather terrible job in helping their children be born again in Christ. Feminism, complementarianism, and Churchianity do their threesome of destruction on the young people that should be the future pillars of the church.
Which is why I wrote as I did. Less focus on conversion of “new” Christians, and more focus on growth among young people who grew up in Christianity to take their full place in the church. That’s a very different mindset.
If you look at the earliest penitentials, masturbation was considered a way graver sin than simple fornication.
https://www.libreriauniversitaria.it/celtic-penitentials-and-their-influence/book/9781597403849
Oddly, nocturnal emissions were not considered sinful. So, I guess you can always claim you were “sleep masturbating” during those long cold nights at the monastery.
I for one see no point in trying to equate masturbation with fornication. Both are destructive and damaging. But masturbation is an attempt to “get rid of the poison” and get the release. Fornication is specifically mentioned in Paul’s recitation of who won’t inherit God’s kingdom, and he includes fornicators and adulterers in there. (I Cor. 6:9-10)
I do stand corrected; Aquinas’s position was that the solitary vice was the least grave among the sins against nature, and fornication is the least grave among all the sins of lust.
Anyone that thinks men who work in remote locations (I work on oil rigs) or who are single shouldn’t masturbate is welcome to find them a town job paying as much, or send them a sexually willing female around their SMV.
Re marrying a post-fertile chick, who’s entirely lacking the ONE major reason still extant for a man to marry… I just can’t see paying ANY money for food that has gone bad, let alone full price. Even if gray while raw (or green) strong-smelling hamburger is marked down, whose kitchen would it be a positive addition to?
Speaking from a Protestant (Biblical 😀) viewpoint, fornication is clearly worse than jacking off. Anyone who fornicates with a woman that isn’t a virgin or widow, actually commits adultery.
The man who fornicates with a virgin or widow just formed a one-flesh union and must marry her. Failure to do so also constitutes covenant breaking (aka adultery).
Biblical Law calls adultery an abomination, says that it defiles, and treats it as a capital offence (Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy). I don’t believe the NT requires the Church to treat it as a capital offence, but these passages clearly indicate that it is a very wicked offence in the sight of God.
Moreover, adultery/fornication produces:
1. Illegitimate children and single moms both of which are harmful to society
2. Abortion, which is murder, genocide
3. Destroys the ability of women to bond emotionally
4. Spreads venereal disease
5. Defiles at least two people
On the other hand, the Bible doesn’t explicitly prohibit jacking off (though I do agree that it should be avoided).
Porn is very harmful. It invariably involves lust, which is adultery of the heart. It is enough to damn someone. Also, like others have said, fornicators and porn users are frequently the same people.
Also, the word porn is so very vague. It can mean anything from Playboy nudes (or even SI swimsuit issues) to crazy sodomite incest porn and worse. Men should avoid it all. But to be honest, women riding the carousel are more harmful to society than are men occasionally jacking off to nude photos of women. On the other hand, men watching crazy sodomite porn really harm society too (and themselves). Plus, porn induced erectile dysfunction is real.
Romans 1 is really true isn’t it. Wow
@Bart – “The man who fornicates with a virgin or widow just formed a one-flesh union and must marry her.”
Welcome back Artisanal Toad!
@Damn Crackers,
That was a very low blow. I am not ArtisnalToad. I am familiar with his work, and believe him to be an unregenerate man.
I’m a Christian that has read the Bible, and am simply pointing out what Exodus 22 and Deuteronomy 22 clearly state. A man who has sex with a virgin is required to marry her.
This is a moral law (not Jewish ceremonial or civil one), and therefore seems to have universal application (Like the prohibitions against adultery and homosexuality).
The Biblical text doesn’t say the same thing about widows, but it seems like a consistent application of the principle.
For what it’s worth ArtisnalToad has said on his blog that fornicating with widows and divorced women is ok. It is certainly not. Sexual activity is only for marriage.
The Bible teaches that the sexual act creates a one-flesh union. This is even the case with a man having sex with a prostitute. (1 Cor. 6:15-16).
If a woman is eligible for marriage (virgin or widow), fornication means you just became one flesh with her and are now obligated to be her husband. If she wasn’t a virgin or widow, then the man is an adulterer, not just a fornicator.
Yes, I understand that this means that most marriages in our culture are adulterous, and that’s very likely the reason you argue against it.
I am very thankful that my wife of nearly twenty years was a virgin when we married (I was too). Our marriage, though certainly imperfect, is at least legitimate
Bart,
If that were the case, then God commanded the prophet Hosea to commit adultery, Judah sinned in not marrying his daughter in law, Lot sinned in not marrying both of his daughters, Jacob’s sons disobeyed the law by not allowing Shechem to marry Dinah. And it would mean that Joseph and Mary weren’t actually married. I think you need to rethink your concept of what marriage is and how it is formed.
Timfinnegan,
That is a good point for consideration regarding Hosea and Gomer. I’ll have to wrestle with it.
Some of the other examples are much weaker.
Judah with Tamar, and Lot with daughters – Those are both incest according to Leviticus 18. You can’t marry your daughters or daughter in law.
Jacob’s son’s killing Shechem and crew over the rape of Dinah isn’t commended by the text. It doesn’t really relate to whether or not Schechem and Dinah were one-flesh.
Mary and Joseph – Biblically speaking betrothed people are regarded as being married even though they aren’t physically “one flesh” yet. Deut. 22:23-24 treats the defiling of the betrothed woman as adultery.
How do you deal with the texts requiring the virgin seducer to marry her (though her father can still veto the marriage)? God is pretty clear about it (Exodus 22:16-17, and Deut. 22:28-29.
Another example that I don’t know what to do with is that of Amnon and Tamar (2 Sam. 13). Once Tamar was raped, she seems to think they are married, and that sending her away was a worse offence than the incestuous rape itself.
Things that make you go hmmm
There’s also the issue of the punishment for the non-virgin bride (Deut. 22:13-21). She is put to death, by stoning, for whoring. That’s the punishment for adulteresses/adulterers. The word whoring is also used to describe adultery.
@ Tim Finnegan:
re Hosea – God commanding Abraham to kill his son would be an example of God commanding people to commit sin, not just for the sake of it but as a part of His agenda, so with Hosea’s story it can be similar case, just that in Hosea’s case, in order to demonstrate what He intended, God actually needed Hosea to follow through with it. What do you think?
Can you imagine marrying a menopausal woman? One that has never been married before and knows absolutely nothing about “sharing space” and what it is like to live with someone else? Imagine how intransigent and un-willing to compromise and adapt to a new person living with her, in close quarters full time. Sharing a bathroom, doing things that “annoy her”, and all that. Her hormones totally out of balance. Age deteriorating whatever little is left of her beauty with every passing second, not every passing year as in her 20s.
This very red-pilled Christian pastor once told me this when I was 19 years old: “you marry in your 20s, it is a marriage; you marry after you are 30, it is a merger”.
Clearly wise, sage-like advice. By the time most men pass 30, we have lived enough to know who we truly are. We understand life better than ever before. We have developed a sense of what we like, don’t like, and how we want to live. Trying to add a woman in our lives as a wife after 30 is really hard. You have developed habits and ideas as a man after 30 that you are much less likely to want to compromise for a woman in your life after 30.
Young men in his 20s, especially his early 20s… men are young and “in love” easily, willing to accommodate his new bride and work things out. It helps you develop a life with her. Once you two work it all out, you can grow together and work around each other and compromise. That simply is very very hard after 30 for a man,, and for most women it is almost impossible to find a man who will satisfy her Hypergamy having ridden the carrousel for so long.
There is a reason people married young during more sane times or Biblical times. It was not just about low life expectancy; it was also about being able to develop a lifelong bond with a woman you would spend your life with.
Marrying after 30 is not easy, you are both too set in your ways and much less willing to compromise to make it work.
Now. Here is the lucky groom. Is THIS guy worth the wait???? Him??? he seems very very average to me.
And as Oscar and Dal have both pointed out, Wendy’s example simply cannot be duplicated by almost every woman around today. Most women today have ridden so much rooster, they lose that “light in their eyes”, the ability to bond with another person, to be a truly good mom and wife. Carousel riding has a very damaging effect on women’s beauty. They lose their beauty at record speed with every pitcher of beer the guzzle and every rooster they sit on. It is called life. It is called bieng human.
If most women follow Wendy’s book and advice and wait until they are in their 50s to marry the first time, they will simply buy themselves a cesspool of misery, disappointment, and unhappiness.
But then again, if an average woman marries in her 50s and changes her mind, she can always divorces the sucka and clean out not only 50% of his current assets and wages, but also half his retirement. So she gets to ride the carrousel as long as she wants, get to say she got married, and then gets a big cash payout and go Eat Pray Love on his dime.
So to her, it is a win-win. To him… not so much. But who cares, he is a man he needs to “man up” anyways. Sheeeesh.
Ps. constrainedlocus
Brazil is one of the most obese countries in the world, will easily pass USA soon. I was there couple years ago and was literally horrified. I thought I was in Detroit.
https://www.businessinsider.com/brazil-on-track-to-be-most-obese-in-world-2015-10?op=1
Obesity is so rampant in Brazil now, girls that back when I last lived there were considered normal, today they are considered “too thin” (magricela). The average Brazilian girl is borderline obese, even for US standards. To make matters worse, girls who are already “chunky” for US standards now are adding silicone implants to try to be more like Kim Kardashian. They remind me of these fat women working at MickeyDs in the ghettos in Detroit. When they step backwards, you hear the truck sound “beep beep beep”.
The few Brazilian girls these days that are “hot” lack any real “beauty”. They get tons of attention and pet many roosters because they are not obese. Look up the Brazilian term “Raimunda” and you will understand.
And Brazil will also pass beat the UK soon in the most tattoos per inch of body skin soon. You really need to go to Brazil and see for yourself. The girls are covered in tattoos in Brazil today. It was both disgusting and revolting to me.
Oh and feminism in Brazil probably surpasses anything from Scandinavia (Norway being my point of comparison). The levels of radical feminism in Brazil are horrifying. No surprise the men in Brazil mobilized with conservative church women to elect Bolsonaro, a guy who openly mocks homos and degeneracy of any kind, including feminism. But feminism there is rampant and laws are so pro-feminist, it makes the Sweden look like a misogynist country.
You been warned.
The reason Wendy is still attractive both physically and spiritually is because she didn’t get married and divorced several times from lame ridiculous young men as most non-christian and many christian women do over and over again. Half of all married people are not happy and are staying together for convenience family or for the sake of the children.. Many have “open marriages” and do not even sleep in the same bedroom. Over half of marriages end in divorce. The Bible even says very plainly in the New Testament that it is best to remain single but basically to go ahead and marry if you must…Marriage is great if you find a loyal person who actually does care about you. This is not the case in many marriages today..Men are marrying women just because they are attractive…Women for the money and security..It doesn’t work…Check those divorce stats again…