Instapundit has a link up to a Bablylon Bee piece about the “pay gap” for women’s soccer. One common refrain in the comments is that women’s soccer has a smaller audience because the level of play is lower. Commenter Bob wrote (emphasis mine):
Any D3 college men’s team could whip our women’s World Cup team … and therein lies the problem. Women do NOT play as well as men. They aren’t as fast, or as quick, or as skillful. Sorry ladies, but THIS is why men get paid more. My suggestion to you women soccer players … bring in the trannies. Big burly trannies “identifying” as women playing in the World Cup … hell, even I would pay to see that carnage, and you gals could parade around preaching about how tolerant and diverse you are.
Mt Geoff-Debbie responded in agreement:
Players are paid to attract people to the game rather than to play the game. Players attract people by playing the game in an exciting way and, generally speaking, people enjoy the men’s games more than the women’s games.
On the flip side, I think more of the big money in ice-skating and gymnastics goes to women. Tennis seems to be close to parity. It all depends on how many people the promoters believe will pay for tickets or will tune in to broadcasts.
The second commenter is closer to having it right, but doesn’t probe why we like watching men in some forms of competition and women in others. The reason men’s sports are more popular than women’s sports isn’t simply a matter of level of play. Men and women are different, and compete for status in different ways. These are sexual competitions by their very nature. Watching women compete in ritual team combat doesn’t scratch the same itch it does when men do it. Likewise, beauty pageants for men just aren’t the same. Sports fans won’t ever really be “sex blind” as the common defense of the pay gap asserts they are.
Men don’t get paid nearly as much as women for beauty pageants, I protest this immoral pay gap.
Dalrock
Men and women are different, and compete for status in different ways. These are sexual competitions by their very nature.
Genes in rebellion against ideology? More re-education needed. MOAR!
Tennis is a good women’s sport for this, except when the USA was “winning” with the Williams sisters we were losing the actual competition.
For an example of Dalrock’s point, see Beach Volleyball. USA Today writes with the usual coyness of the major media, as if sex doesn’t exist – giving women’s usual “we wear what feels good to us.”
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/women-beach-volleyball-bikinis-men-uniform-guidelines-kerri-walsh-jennings
99% of the money earned by fashion models is earned by women.
Pointing this out to women does not persuade them to be fair, or even make them curious about how economics works.
Remember that :
i) In terms of basic morality, fairness, and sense of reciprocity, on a 1-10 scale, the average woman is a 3, while the average man is a 6 or so.
ii) The two (or three) fields in which female aptitude is absolutely the lowest are a1) economics, a2) any quantitative field of finance, where cause and effect are objective and quick, and c) astronomy.
^ Women’s votes should count for 1/3 of men’s votes, Anon.
Female porn stars are paid way more than their male counterparts even though they are both (at least in heterosexual sex scenes) doing the same work.
^ Women’s votes should count for 1/3 of men’s votes, Anon.
That would be an improvement. But as I don’t want to overtly disenfranchise by gender, the better policy with the better self-correcting mechanism is ‘only taxpayers above $X can vote’. The good thing about this is that career women will actually support this, without realizing that most of their jobs would subsequently erode away as a result.
Most existing female jobs would erode away, and most young women would become housewives. Those who are already single mothers are rightly fucked.
A picture is worth 1,000 words. This comment == 2,000 words.
Gold medal quality soccer player
Gold medal winning figure skater
Q.E.D.
May I mention something which although obvious (at least to me on this side of the pond) has not I think been touched on either here or in the MSM about pay for Soccer players. On an earlier thread but one I causally mentioned Jimmy Greaves and said that I had gone along to his house one Saturday and obtained his autograph. He was mowing his front lawn and signed my autograph book with one hand as with the other he held his baby son. Unthinkable now of course that the greatest English striker of the his generation (Hurst – never heard of him) could be so easily waylaid. He was at the time about twenty-two. In England at that time there was a maximum wage for a professional Soccer player which amounted to about £10.00 a week which was about what a bus-driver might earn such that Greaves became the second English player to go to Italy (following Welshman John Charles) which paid better money to its players. In short there was little money in Football, no woman played it and as far as I can recall no women ever went to matches to watch it being played. Then along came television.
Soccer players now earn tens of thousands of these things ££££££££££ a week and lo and behold not only do women want to watch but also want to play presumably because they have just woken up to the fact that otherwise they would as they see it be left behind. That of course is nonsense because men are not attracted to women who play soccer and as with Greaves soccer players already have attractive women to whom they are married; the infamous WAGs. Those women who play Soccer are not WAG material and playing Soccer will not add anything to their SMV. When I played as an amateur no women ever came to watch but I demand pay parity with the players of the national team. I demand my reparations.
There is – looking at the two contrasting photos above – something viscerally repulsive and barf inducing about Rapinoe.
Yes, poor repressed women. Helpless. No power. Ignore that they dominate the twin Gestapos of HR and EO, and are the personal assistants to powerful leaders, of which an increasing number is undeserving women placed there by virtue signaling.
As many have observed here in the past, Eden was perfect–and still it wasn’t good enough for Eve.
@Opus
I agree about the repulsiveness of la Rapinoe.
IMHO it is a combination of hubris, willfulness–and wickedness.
Other than baseball, a game of strategy, most sports are a directed form of violence.
Fake, steal, rush, check, tackle.
Women are incapable of generating the “energy” of such violence to be spectacle.
Gymnastics, dance are sports of grace.
Men are incapable of generating the fluidity of such grace to be performance.
It really is amazing how disconnected most of these women are from the realities of the market place but I think that they might better understand why they don’t get paid as much as men if you use and example that most women can relate to. In this case shoes, ask any women if she thinks a pair of Crocs should be sold at the same price as a pair of Prada pumps and why not? The light might just come on but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
I haven’t seen the MSM spell it out this way, but feminists who argue USWNT players should be paid equal to, or better than, the USMNT based on the women’s success against same-gender competition are guilty of deploying double standards: exceptional play against other elite women on the one hand and supposedly inferior pay with respect to elite men on the other. The idea that women who want to be paid like men should have to play men will be either ignored outright or met with shrieks and mockery. Ditto the notion that U.S. women (I assume) enjoy handsome advantages in training and fan support relative to many other women’s national teams. It doesn’t appear to occur to them that women perform so much better at soccer here because we are a fantastically wealthy country that financially and philosophically subsidizes women’s sports.Exceptional privilege is transmogrified into oppression. This is pretty near the crux of feminist ideology and appears in a number of issues (e.g., VAWA/Duluth, equal pay in general, STEM, maternity leave, Title IX, and so on).
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I found out how bad women are at soccer when i was maybe 12-11 we scrimmaged against a 8th grade girls team. They dwarfed me and im now 6-3 theybgave it everything they had and were exceptionally mean trying to kick as hard as possible and miss kicking us. A ball pops up and im sweeper its coming right for me like dont even move one of them is running down field at me as fast as she can shes gonna plow me and try to kick the ball as hard as possible.
I kicked it as hard as i could just to defend myself were both going down. I get up shes crying on the ground and i actually broke her leg. The guys on my team were pissed they went to school with these hot older girls. They were taking swings at me and coach stepped in. The ambulance came. I was in shock they were way bigger than me.
Yeah, some female sports can be sold as titillation. However, the whole “sex sells” strategy ain’t going to work with women’s soccer or WNBA and the like. These teams are headlined and dominated by surly repulsive dykes. Any blind person can see that even without the press reminding us every 5 minutes.
I’m at the point where I’ve turned off all female athletics entirely. That includes female fight sports in the UFC, etc… Why? Because it has degenerated into an anti-male anti-American radical leftardess lesbo tranny crisis that I find utterly hideous. In my view, the world is now better off without any women’s athletics at this time. That sound you hear is the channel changing.
Some women’s sports such as figure skating or gymnastics are not sports at all in the traditional sense. They are exhibitions. The athlete gives a performance and is then subjectively rated by judges. The winner does not vanquish the loser in ritual combat. She displays more beauty and grace and inspires admiration and joy in the spectators. There is something distinctly feminine and appealing about competitions like that. By contrast it can be distasteful to watch women compete in Mixed Martial Arts, punching and kicking and choking each other.
“Men’s Beauty Pageants should be paid as much as women’s. Not paying them for the same work is immoral”
I’m going to trot out this line the next time I hear of the alleged immorality of women not being paid as much as men “for doing the same work” when it comes to
Arena Sports. This is because they do it to EVERY sport they go into. It isn’t enough that they have a spot or a competition. As soon as that happens, demands of prime air time advertising and equal pay start rolling in. Australian Women’s Basketball teams even demanded that they get First Class air travel because the men did. The fact that the men were way taller and didn’t fit well crammed into Economy Class where the smaller women fitted perfectly well didn’t matter.
None of the conventional arguments, such as “No. They don’t play as well or draw the same crowds”; – seems to work.
Women are immune to basic reason.
I’m also waiting for the triumph of Women’s Soccer Equal Pay after this World Cup to come to film, with the title, “Bend It Like Rapinoe”.
On the supposed pay gap: now there is scientific proof women are LESS productive than men because of productivity loss due to menstruation issues.
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/9/6/e026186
I DEMAND that men are getting paid more for being more productive than women.
Forget physical sports that require upper body strength, or any body strength.
Women are just 2% of Chess Grandmasters. Note that Chess has virtually zero barrier to entry, and women can always practice with other women until they all become experts (i.e. men cannot block women from chess).
But yet, women are just 2% of Chess Grandmasters.
The only competitive events that test any worthwhile skill, where women are fully competitive with men, are Game shows like The Price is Right or Wheel of Fortune. This is partly due to those shows being about shopping, etc.
Once you get to something remotely intellectual like Jeopardy or Who Wants to be a Millionaire, women stop being represented in the upper ranks.
I would be curious to know if women are competitive with men in Scrabble.
I answered my own question : almost all the top Scrabble players in the world are men.
Quite a few are from Nigeria and other African countries, so this refutes the narrative of ‘low IQ’ that the Nationalist-Leftists harp on about, but I digress…
*Women* are not significant among the top 100 Scrabble players.
Link of Scrabble champions :
https://www.wespa.org/aardvark/cgi-bin/rating.cgi
gunner451,
The bulb is burned out for most women and they can’t rely on a man enough to replace it so it has no chance of turning on.
Bart says:
July 9, 2019 at 7:41 pm
[…] “The idea that women who want to be paid like men should have to play men will be either ignored outright or met with shrieks and mockery.”
Exactly. Each time someone tells me the women are better or superior than the men, or have superior results, I simply demand them ho many times the women have beat the men or, at least, the men’s opponents.
My idea, our idea, in fact that, to demand equal pay, equal category should be required from the women is outright the worse thing a man can do.
[…] “Ditto the notion that U.S. women (I assume) enjoy handsome advantages in training and fan support relative to many other women’s national teams. It doesn’t appear to occur to them that women perform so much better at soccer here because we are a fantastically wealthy country that financially and philosophically subsidizes women’s sports.” […]
What did we expect, Bart? Gratitude, from the women? Dalrock published a few days ago that insatisfaction was the default state of women and feminists.
You’d think that, the women’s coach, paid more than double what the second best paid female coach would be happy. You’d think that US women, having 53% of the world’s licensed women soccer players, and the most infrastructures and catering available to them, their needs, their training for any women in the world would be grateful; but no!
They want to be considered superior to men, when they can’t compete with 14 years old boys.
Chess is perhaps the perfect example of female inability at the highest level of mental ability because only the result counts. Women have played Chess doubtless since its invention – there are certainly painting from hundreds of years ago of women playing the game. There is no physical disability that women suffer when playing Chess (they are masters at sitting on their ass) and yet FIDE have separate Womens and Mens tournaments. This is just as well for as with Soccer were there an open tournament women would be humiliated. No woman can match even the lower-ranked Grand Masters let alone the likes of Magnus Carlsson or Fabio Caruana (oh no not more white male western european supremacy) or even your own equally white Sam Sheppard – sounds bit Anglo to me. It remains the case that at higher levels of mental ability for every woman there will be thirty men. Complain if you must to God or Darwin but nothing about that can change. That, by the way, is why you never (or rarely) hear music written by women – because no matter how competent, there are thirty men equally good. Should you start to hear female penned compositions in greater number that is evidence of the oppression of men and not female superiority.
Imagine if you will that there was a Sport which women had not merely invented but were supremely better at than any man. Along come some men who having taken up the sport demand that they have equal pay to the very best of the females. The women would tell the men to get lost and point out the obvious that the men are demanding a participation trophy. The men would be laughed at as much by other men as by women yet when the sexes are reversed this does not happen but there is mass male embarrassment over pointing out the bleeding obvious.
A lot of “male superiority” in non-physical areas is due to the established fact that the bell curve tends to be flatter for men than for women, even when the mean is the same, leaving a larger proportion of men at the high and low ends of the spectrum. And it is at the extreme high end that world-class performance comes from, whether in chess or cooking.
how does the first guy have it wrong?
Body building is the only beauty pageant in which men get paid more than women.
I heard yesterday that women soccer players earn a higher percentage of revenue than men. If anything men are getting paid less. Because they bring in far more revenue they make more.
https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/more-sports/womens-world-cup-soccer-players-earn-a-way-higher-percentage-of-revenue-than-the-men/84319051/
Vanity Fair has an article claiming that for a century that Jazz was a mens club. Now there are 16 female jazz musicians are reshaping the genre…they play horns, drums, double bass etc, etc…
I don’t know about others but this isn’t true for me. I like to watch college football over pro and local high school, even better. I like watching women’s sports that accentuate natural femininity and beauty. I’m unlikely to make any effort to watch an individual or team that has been designated as my enemy in the culture war no matter how skilled they are.
13 and 14 year old high school boys effortlessly beat this women’s Olympic team in a scrimmage a couple years ago:
https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/
Barnie-
I think we are close to the same page here. I don’t watch professional sports–in particular the major leagues (MLB, NFL, Etc).. Actually, I like to say that I do not consume the commercial product known as professional sports. I do enjoy a minor league baseball team from time to time, because I do love sports.
Its just that there is almost nothing redeeming about all the crybaby millionaire psychopaths who grace american TV screens all weekend. They are never held accountable for their off the field shenanigans, er crimes. They do not care one whiff for their fans or the cities they are playing in. They are the modern equivalent of the gladiators. I suppose we will always have that.
All the reasons for having a team in the town you are from are gone now.
As for womens soccer or basketball players pay, for me its like trying to figure out which porn star is sinning less. The one who only does one on one couples stuff, or the one who is into fisting and DP.
Professional sports is just a product that has no value to me and my family.
@Tom C
Right. Yet beating the other women in beauty and grace is the female analog for combat (other analogs would be queen bee type scheming and seducing the alpha male). This is the irony of feminists destroying beauty pageants. Men never really cared about them in the first place. If they watched, they watched to see hot women (and I don’t even recall that ever being a common thing). They weren’t engrossed in the competition, which is why the women tuned in.
Professional sports is just a product that has no value to me and my family.
Yep.
I think what some guys don’t realize is just how much contempt many professional athletes have for “fans”. Like deep and utter contempt.
I remember an interview a few years ago that one of the local baseball players was giving — I think it was Anthony Rendon — and he was asked what he was doing during the all-star game break and whether he watched the game or the contests and so on and he replied that he never watched sports, found it boring, preferred to do outdoor activities and spend time with people and so on … and then he backtracked a bit and said he loved the fans and so on. But the mask had already dropped, lol.
For the most part (there are exceptions), professional athletes see fans as chumps — inferior physical specimens with inferior lives and inferior women who are paying these physically superior guys lots of money to display their superiority. The view most of the adult “fans” — not the families who are bringing their kids along … many athletes have a soft spot for the kids … but the adult fans — as pathetic creatures worthy of contempt, from whom they are happy to make a wildly inflated living.
Sports are fun to play recreationally and they can sometimes be entertaining to watch but I pretty much stopped watching almost all professional sports some time ago when it became clear that these guys just view you as a contempt-worthy chump, a mark really. You’re better off doing almost anything with your time than watching professional sports with it.
Nova
I bring that point up (and others like it) to my guy friends all the time. I try to reason with then about the overall, aggregate value of consuming the product with your kids in tow.
They inevitably send me a story about some total no name athlete who spends time at the local homeless shelter as evidence that pro sports has some moral/ethical value.
But it’s the entirety of it. Not the obscure one off story.
The corpse is lying on the ER table and has been dead for a while but they keep pounding on its chest and trying heroic life saving efforts.
Professional sports has nothing for the family man.
Almost forgot. The guy who is hanging out with homeless people is usually just satisfying the terms of his community service on account of the hotel room gang bang drug deal that went bad. (And the rest of us would be in prison for).
But hey, yo! He can run good and throw good and he bangs hot chicks. So we should cut him some slack.
“Bend It Like Rapinoe”.
That conjures up terrifying images.
It really is amazing how disconnected most of these women are from the realities of the market place.
It has entirely to do with the fact that women are ruled by emotions. The laws of economics are like the physical laws of gravity; you can manipulate them to a very small extent, but ultimately their absolutes assert themselves as reality (“it’s not fay-errrrrrrr!!!”). When the laws of economics do assert themselves in full force, it is usually to women’s extreme disadvantage and detriment (they are, as a sex, inefficient mechanisms of production who consume more than they produce and thus receive a much smaller share of the available wealth). Thus their aversion to economic reality. This is why AA/EO, and its extreme extension, Socialism, among other forms of ruinous economic distortion, have such overwhelmingly female support.
I read the article linked by Larry above about uniforms. Interestingly, the women have five choices in their uniform style to the men’s one choice. I can see the women complaining that their dress code is five times longer.
The thing I like about girls’ soccer (which is what we’re talking about) is that there do exist girls in it. On Team USA, I liked Abby Dahlkemper, who has a splendid rack and legs and presents the best overall package. SI has an issue on her and some online video, pretty sweet. I have a feeling SI is where the real money is in women’s soccer, which is one reason why the bull-dykes are complaining. Not that I go so far as visualize Megan Rapey-No in that capacity nor that disgusting train-smash, Ashlyn Harris. Alex Morgan is pretty, and although she doesn’t have a lot else going on, I wouldn’t deny her an opportunity to entertain me. In general, those girls have strong legs and deep hamstrings, making for a nice profile. They would also be a lot more appealing if they smiled in those pre-game shots instead of scowling trying to be badass, and being a disgusting bull-dyke snuffs infinite amounts of attraction.
Women’s sports are called “Reality TV”.
@Anon
“[Scrabble championships] refute the [IQ test result based] narrative of ‘low [african] IQ’…”
Sure, just like Chinese dominance in ping-pong refutes the average vertical leap advantage of Africans. I may as well say that female dominance in the make-up or hairstyling industry refutes your own argument, after all, a smart person will surely master different and superior ways of hairstyling more easily than a dumb one!
Isn’t it funny that anti-racialists always appeal to activities which loosely correlate with IQ, are largely dependant on training effective strategy, and have negligible popularity in most of the world to prop up their arguements, since more direct measures (IQ test results, academic performance, job performance and innovation) are consistently not on their side. One wonders at the mindset of someone who thinks the bell curve is valid for the modest differential between male and female, while simultaneously declaring it invalid for the much larger and more consistent gap between races (there’s a big black-white gap basically everywhere, the male-female gap has narrowed to 1 point or dissappeared in some European countries, and is almost never more than 4 points even if the “bells” are different shapes).
This has become especially bad in the NFL and fans are getting fed up as TV ratings and attendance are falling fast.
As for baseball, half the players are not even Americans. American blacks have pretty much abandoned the sport. their place (and others as well) has been taken by black Caribbeans. The Dominican Republic has turned into a baseball player factory, I don’t see those guys identifying with pudgy dude who spend their work week in a cubicle.
Then there’s the NBA, where a heckling fan might find himself being pummeled by a 6’6″, 300lb leviathan.
American blacks have pretty much abandoned the sport.
That little oddity is due to the way the sport works now in the US. Mostly in the US now the focus for good youth baseball players are “travel teams”. These private “travel teams” cost $$$ and, in some cases, such that the cost-of-entry into the sport now is quite high if you are American. It’s possible to get drafted or picked for a good college program if you are just doing HS ball and rec league, but most of the American players feeding in are doing travel ball these days. If you are Dominican, the teams have academies there where they actively recruit and train players from the early/mid teens. Typical profile of black players who play football or basketball and are recruited for college teams out of HS teams doesn’t apply anymore, for the most part, in baseball for Americans, so blacks have basically left the sport more or less.
If you wish to effectively counter the asinine sports pay gap argument in the wild it’s advisable to keep politics, economics, and other perfectly rational but triggering aspects of the issue out of it.
Simply point out that the mens’ and womens’ teams play different opponents. This holds true for every single professional sport. Bitching that Premier League (English soccer) players make less or more than Superliga (Danish soccer) is a nonstarter, and everyone – perhaps even feminists – can grasp that.
@texincole
Should we wish to avoid those? Is there a long term upside to abandoning reasonable discussion? And don’t we see the asinine get even more so when they are triggered and so reveal themselves?
I am already the right-wing weirdo and so my ideas are locked out of popular discussion. The high risk game of saying unpopular things is a better strategy for me because even though the odds seem long, if the black swan event happens and politics takes a right turn then the payoff will be yuuuge.
@Cane Caldo
Nailed it.
Literally no one else other than you Americans know the Women’s World Cup just took place lol. I had to check what you guys are talking about.
Female soccer players are paid less than male players.
Female models are paid more than male models.
Figure out why.
Next one on the Cover of Sport Illustrated: the feminine and very appealing Megan Rapinoe.
Bet placed.
Regarding 13-14 year old boys beating the Us Women’s team, I remember in fifth grade, the boys baseball team played the girls softball team.
The coach made us bat opposite hand and wear gloves on the other hand. It was still not close.
It was fun though. I remember that. I remember laughing with my friends about how weird it felt batting and throwing differently.
Epilogue, decades later I moved to a small town 100 miles away and ran into one of the girls we played that day, who lived nearby.
I haven’t watched a single sports game in many years. I don’t fault people for being into it, I just can’t personally identify with a bunch of people I’ve never met who happen to be good at a game I don’t usually play.
I see why people are into it, in many ways sports are indicative of the deep human desire for community and common purpose.
@Nick
As I commented above, Abby Dahlkemper is already on Sports Illustrated, at least online, but I wouldn’t put it past Rapey to complain that purple hair is not getting equal time. Abby is not listed on the “40 Out players in women’s FIFA”, which I found somewhere.
Athletic and Whinesplosive,
You have undermined your own ‘argument’. The Scrabble Champions list irrefutably shows that almost none of the Top 100 ranked champions are women, while black Africans are well-represented.
One could say Scrabble does not correlate as well with IQ tests as Chess does, but the far more stark revelation is the male-female achievement gap, which is identical to what we see in Chess, Mathematical contests, etc.
Remember that Race Trashionalism (of any race) is just another form of feminism. White Trashionalism, in particular, is known for being a goddess cult of needy woman-worship :
http://www.antifeministtech.info/2011/04/white-nationalism-is-a-goddess-cult/
The fact that you would swoop in to whiteknight is predictable. I suppose you are a big fan of the US female soccer team as well.
Intro group differences between races don’t really bother me.
The only way to make civic nationalism work however, in a multi racial, multi ethnic nation is to hold everyone accountable to the exact same standards of behavior. Then, let the chips fall where they may.
This is uncomfortable for many because it means certain racial groups will do better or worse in certain areas and it makes them sad or have low self esteem or whatever.
@ Cane Caldo
Should we wish to avoid those? Is there a long term upside to abandoning reasonable discussion?
YMMV and all, just a tack I’ve had success with in terms of piercing through the stupid. If you’re able to achieve “reasonable discussion” with someone unironically criticizing the sports pay gap then my advice is moot.
Scott,
The only way to make civic nationalism work however, in a multi racial, multi ethnic nation is to hold everyone accountable to the exact same standards of behavior. Then, let the chips fall where they may.
Oh, totally. The recent push to a) exempt blacks from prosecution for violent crimes against whites, and b) bribe illegals as though they are somehow more exalted than US citizens and the dupe legal immigrants who followed the rules, is frightening.
This would stop immediately if the two aforementioned groups that rich white leftists are pandering to were transported to the neighborhoods the leftists live in, and allowed to take up residence there.
I think what some guys don’t realize is just how much contempt many professional athletes have for “fans”. Like deep and utter contempt.
It comes from the same place and is very much akin to “resting bitch face” of androsphere infamy. It can affect players in the same way desirable women are affected by loads of attention and adulation from what they perceive as lesser persons. An unworthy, worshiping mob of what are essentially beta orbiters, paying to watch them, wear clothes with the player’s name, and squish each other at fences to maybe get their autograph or be near them for a moment.
The only way to make civic nationalism work however, in a multi racial, multi ethnic nation is to hold everyone accountable to the exact same standards of behavior.
A nice sentiment, but this doesn’t even work, at scale, in command-compelled hierarchical organizations like the military. Try it in democratic polity with influential subversive actors and it festers, then fulminates, into war and suffering, eventually. It would be easier to just lobotomize everyone.
Etymologically, a “multi racial, multi ethnic nation” is like saying a “family of strangers.”
Everyone* can be a brother or sister in Christ, but empires always end badly.
* Even Scrabble-obsessed saracens (if apostate). Blasphemers of the Holy Spirit not eligible.
Some women’s sports such as figure skating or gymnastics are not sports at all in the traditional sense. They are exhibitions. The athlete gives a performance and is then subjectively rated by judges. The winner does not vanquish the loser in ritual combat. She displays more beauty and grace and inspires admiration and joy in the spectators.
Sports for men reenact the Hero’s Journey, sports for women reenact Cinderella.
Men and women are different, and compete for status in different ways. These are sexual competitions by their very nature.
The Princess Atalantis story was ego-gratifying to the girls of the generation targeted for indoctrination by Free to be you and me, but it didn’t make them any less romantically interested in the starting quarterback.
Marques
Trust me over the last 2 decades in particular I have given this much thought
And as much as I don’t like it I am closer to your position than ever. There are sociological phenomena which appear to be hard wired to the human condition that seal this fate you described
It’s a bummer but small to medium sized ethnically homogenous nation states are probably the best hope for peace on earth
All I was saying is it takes a Starship Troopers/Marshall Tito top down iron fisted authoritarian rule to make it work.
What comes through in Anon’s regular off-topic screeds against nationalism is his fear of being left surrounded by (other?) POC. He really wants access to white society…for no concrete reason at all; fix the politics and economy and we’d all be the same, he swears it…please don’t take the white people!
Although soccer-scold Rapinoe is an extreme example, she embodies a depressing number of American women: hard eyes; discontented expression; tired, prematurely-lined face; childish pique.
Even in “woke” Europe, women have a softer, more feminine look — you can usually pick them out in photos: the American women have a hard, strained look. You don’t have to “have it all” and be constantly ecstatic to have a good life. Too bad American women don’t believe that.
Beverly Hills Police Chief (a woman) found guilty of harassment: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7233273/Beverly-Hills-police-chief-hit-harassment-verdict.html
I recently learned that Portland, Oregon, and London, also have women police chiefs. Santa Monica, CA has had two women police chiefs in a row. Neither came up through the ranks. Both were hired from other departments to be chief.
Women police chiefs seem to be increasingly common.
Portland, Oregon police chief Danielle Outlaw is originally from Oakland, California.
https://www.portlandoregon.gov/police/article/657352
We had one in DC for quite some time as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_L._Lanier
@RPL
Women police chiefs seem to be increasingly common.
I wonder what the numbers look like with county Sherrifs? As I understand it city councils or the mayor, or someone that is not the general populace, can hire/appoint a police chief. They are free to implement whatever their current level of “wokeness” may be. The Sheriff usually has to be elected by the local population.
Cane Caldo,
He really wants access to white society…for no concrete reason at all; fix the politics and economy and we’d all be the same, he swears it…please don’t take the white people!
LOL! That wasn’t the gist of my comment at all. Plus, nevermind that I was responding to someone else, and that the Scrabble rankings, while fully confirming gender differences in aptitude (the topic of this thread), seems to refute the race narrative of people who have tried for a decade (unsuccessfully) to pollute the androsphere with their ideology.
My entire problem with any race/ethno-centric ideology (no matter what race) is that it is really just another form of ‘feminism’, and is always full of misandry, just like cuckservatism and churchianity.
But it is funny how quickly your projection leaked out, despite so many years in the androsphere. Remember that anti-misandry thought is the most advanced, as it is the hardest to adjust to relative to human hardwiring, while ‘muh tribe’ ideologies are the easiest as it is the default human hardwiring from prehistoric times. It is not a surprise you are slipping down the scale into the path of least resistance.
They’re doubling down: https://babylonbee.com/news/womens-soccer-team-sues-to-overturn-unjust-law-of-supply-and-demand
Our leftist media, broadcast, print or online, wouldn’t stop talking about it, even though the overwhelming majority of the population did not watch a single match.
If you want to offend an American prog, tell him or her that outside of the US no one cares about women’s football.
When the Men’s world cup is played, things come to a grinding halt when your country is playing, because everyone watches the match. Portable TV’s are brought to the work place and everyone pretends to work while watching the match (except in the US).
It’s a bummer but small to medium sized ethnically homogenous nation states are probably the best hope for peace on earth
We were all sold a bill of goods. I bought in, too. I’m sure some smarter guys took one look and immediately fucked off to a monestary or the Alaskan wilderness or something.
The neobabylonian urge is very strong; it is the culmination of original sin. The global society we are subject to is new babylon, it inculcates us from before we can talk, and brooks no dissent.
diversityIsSTRENGTH!desmondIsAHMAAAZING!raycissBigotHOMOPHOBE!
I thought siren songs are supposed to be sweet.
What the hell happened?
Regardless, we can look forward to a new song:
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Scott,
That is why it won’t work. We do not do that today and will not do it until things collapse.
I remember growing up thinking why we couldn’t have a NAAWP (for white people) just like the NAACP (for colored people – the term at the time). That was completely hypocritical, but people tolerated and even supported it. Now we have gone farther down the tubes and many still haven’t woken up to how bad things are.
Which is why we won’t have peace until the Prince of Peace returns. It will have to be enforced from the top even then and many will still rebel after 1000 years, until things are finally put right permanently.
Anon,
People seek to associate with people like them, however good or bad that is. It is not only the “evil white people” who do that, it is the beloved minorities as well, perhaps even more so.
The modern foolishness is probably going to lead to a huge backlash enforcing this far beyond anything we can imagine now. Things can change far more than seem doable, in a very short time.
BillyS,
The modern foolishness is probably going to lead to a huge backlash enforcing this far beyond anything we can imagine now. Things can change far more than seem doable, in a very short time.
Maybe. The fact that flagrant non-assimilation is being encouraged is indicative of this. How can Ilhan Omar be a US Rep?
That said, there never seems to be a backlash against ‘feminism’ outside of the few men who are red pill, so a race/ethnic backlash may or may not happen, despite those sentiments far easier to evoke among the left side of the bell curve.
I have often said that the only way to save America is for a secret Libertarian (red pill) to run as a Democrat. Pay lip service to a few liberal social views and condemn endless wars, all while quietly slashing regulations and various pernicious government apparatuses around feminism, race grievances, etc. Most Dem voters won’t even notice what is quietly happening in the background as long as the soundbites hit the checkboxes.
@ Cane Caldo
Hey, I’m a POC*, and I’ll admit that I want access to “white society”. More specifically, I want access to American white society, which is mostly English. The best places I’ve ever lived in, or visited, are full of Americans of British, German, and/or Norse descent.
* I’m a POC when it’s convenient for Leftists. When it’s inconvenient for them, my German heritage makes me a “white Hispanic”.
@NotaBene: in many ways sports are indicative of the deep human desire for community and common purpose.
and for many it goes even beyond that into the religious domain, where they idolize their ‘champions’ as gods, and attending sports events become their religious gatherings. No wonder those ‘champions’ can feel themselves easily exalted into god-like status (until after their thirties, when their bodies go into degrading mode like the rest of us mortals. At that point they’ve collected enough wealth from their worshipers to live comfortable lives happily ever after)
It’s very easy for many people to fall into this trap, especially when you have a spiritual void inside you.
Not that he needs my patronism but I have a certain sympathy for Anon: born and bred (I believe) in America he has here been known to go full-Indian nationalist. That cannot make for an easy life. America is a strange country: obsessed by whether it is white or POC when frankly I cannot see what might unite a Scandinavian and an Italian, or a Pole and an Irishman. I treat Indians as cousins as I do Americans (and so Anon must be doubly so) – a fair number of my ancestors spent a lot of time in India getting shot at and my maternal grandfather is I presume still wanted in California for the theft from a farm of a chicken – also shot at – but missed.
@Red Pill Latecomer
It is correct that the Chief of London’s Metropolitan Police is female. She is also a Lezzer (colour me shocked) and goes by the name of Miss Dick (Cressida Dick) – you cannot make this stuff up. This of course is a politically motivated appointments which is equally why in the county I live in which is hardly exactly Black (this is England for chrisake not America and you never see a black ‘bobby’ here) let alone very Black, the Chief Constable thereof is very Black. I saw him once in my local with a then aspiring Chief Inspector (now dismissed for inappropriate use of the police computer. Hmmm).
It is not just the Police that have an infestation of women and other politically correct people. The following are now also female:
The Head of State (since 1952)
The Prime Minister (going very soon and accused of having too many men in her cabinet)
The Head of MI5 (007’s boss)
The Poet Laureate (you need a monarchy to have one of those)
The Master (sic erat) of the Queen’s Musick (Lezzer)
and so it goes on; women doing the jobs that men refuse to do. Oh the oppression.
Female porn stars are paid way more than their male counterparts even though they are both (at least in heterosexual sex scenes) doing the same work.
Umm, I thought the men worked harder…
This comment == 2,000 words
Outed yourself as a software developer.
invite the indomitable lions of teranga in drag and I guarantee that the wage gap will turn in favour of “women’s” soccer. See also Castor Semenya.
Opus:
America is a strange country: obsessed by whether it is white or POC when frankly I cannot see what might unite a Scandinavian and an Italian, or a Pole and an Irishman.
I have heard several people from other countries relay similar sentiments.
Anon is wrong about all ethnic nationalism automatically evolving into woman worship. From what I have seen, black ethnic nationalism (if that’s the proper term) almost always goes misogynistic at its most extreme, which is partly why I want no part of it.
“Not that he needs my patronism but I have a certain sympathy for Anon: born and bred (I believe) in America he has here been known to go full-Indian nationalist. That cannot make for an easy life. America is a strange country: obsessed by whether it is white or POC when frankly I cannot see what might unite a Scandinavian and an Italian, or a Pole and an Irishman. I treat Indians as cousins as I do Americans (and so Anon must be doubly so) – a fair number of my ancestors spent a lot of time in India getting shot at and my maternal grandfather is I presume still wanted in California for the theft from a farm of a chicken – also shot at – but missed.”
It is a common error of white nationalists to think that pan-ethnic nationalism is a norm. Black nationalism only exists in the US because they’d been treated as a group for decades. There isn’t any pan-ethnic black nationalism in Africa(and there wasn’t when Africans were bought as slaves).
The modern foolishness is probably going to lead to a huge backlash enforcing this far beyond anything we can imagine now.
Less likely than you think, really.
The reason is that the demographics have a huge skew generationally. That is, the “impacted whites” are mostly 45+, while the sub-45s are already majority minority. In the case of Gen Z it’s very non-white. “Backlashes” tend to not be driven by people who are over 50. Sure, there can be a *political* backlash driven by that demographic, like there was in 2016 (the over 50 whites went overwhelmingly for Trump), but in terms of a consistent social and political movement that involves more than voting once every few years, the 50+ set isn’t going to get you there. Those kinds of movements are led by the young, who have more energy, passion and time to devote to them — and the young are disproportionately not white — and they’re not going to backlash against themselves, LOL.
To take an example, people often talk about how the millenial generation hates Trump and so on. Taken as a whole, that’s true. But white male millenials actually voted for Trump: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/03/21/a-bright-spot-for-republicans-among-millennials-young-white-men/?utm_term=.cf0f3324f378 . The reason why the millenial generation as a whole is considered (and on a whole, actually *is*) anti-Trump is because the millenial generation is less white than any other generation before it in American history other than the one behind it, Gen Z, which is even less white. White guys still voted for Trump at that age range, it’s just that their votes are washed out by non-white votes. The same is the case in Gen Z, which is even more non-white.
No, the other side has basically won the match at this point by means of immigration. In the younger generations, it’s identity politics all the way down, period, and the way race skews generationally ensures that the political/social/cultural energy is now with non-whites, which makes an actual concerted backlash (again, apart from the matter of casting a vote every now and then) very unlikely. This is also why we constantly see SJW this and that all over the place in the media — the generations who have the time, energy and passion for organized political/cultural/social activity (i.e., the young) skew very non-white, and are pushing an agenda that favors themselves and of course not whites. Very simple. They won the game because they kept their eye on the ball demographically, played a long game of population replacement, and were aided and abetted in this by greedy corporate entities looking to import cheaper labor, and who therefore also supported mass immigration all along the way (and still do, of course).
—-
One thing that needs to be understood by everyone, I think.
When these guys talk about “white supremacy”, they aren’t talking about the KKK and Jim Crow. They’re talking about the idea that whites (supposedly still) have the largest impact on the culture, economy and political system. They claim that some of this is due to unjust privilege. But they also believe that some of it is inevitable because whites still make up ~72.4 (2010 census percentage of self-identified “whites”, if you back out “Hispanic whites” it’s closer to 65%) of the population. Any group that makes up that portion of the population is going to have, de facto, the largest influence in those areas in the country, taken as a whole — of course whites are not aligned on anything, but the idea that they have is that whatever they are trying to do — whether it is conservative or progressive — if it is being done by white people, it’s an expression of white supremacy because it is done from a position of being demographically the overwhelming majority of the population. In other words, as long as whites are the overwhelming majority of the population, the United States will be subject to “white supremacy”, regardless of how many affirmative action and anti-discrimination laws you pass, because a group that collectively is such a large percentage of the population exercises a de facto supreme influence over the culture compared to any other ethnic group.
The solution to this “problem” is, of course, to reduce the percentage of white people as a percentage of the total population. From the SJW perspective, unless they do this they cannot “put an end to the scourge that is white supremacy” because, de facto, as long as whites have a large majority of the population, they are de facto supreme demographically and that demographic supremacy translates to a degree of cultural/economic/political supremacy when compared with other ethnic/racial groups. So they have to reduce the white portion of the population as a whole in order to get rid of “white supremacy”, which is, of course as we hear every day, their primary goal for the country at this point.
The key point to understand is that they see this as a *moral* imperative. That is, “white supremacy”, based as it is on a large white demographic majority, is morally indefensible from their worldview’s perspective — it must be dismantled as an absolute moral priority in order to get past the “moral stain” of white racism once and for all. Demographic change does not happen overnight, of course, and so a long game has been played here. In the meantime other measures have been taken to reduce the impact of the “white supremacy” that fact of white population majority creates (AA, Anti-discrim, etc.), while the levers were moved to discourage birth rates among whites and at the same time permit the largest wave of mass immigration in the history of the world to take place. That long game is nearing its end-game phase. They can see the demographic tipping point in sight now, and they are positively giddy with excitement about it (“Oh happy day, when whites are finally no longer the majority!!!!” is basically the endless drumbeat from the mainstream media on this). Trump was a shocker for them, true, but the demographic trends haven’t really changed much during his presidency anyway. The left is more confident than ever that its goal of eliminating white supremacy is close at hand because they can taste the day soon to come when the basis for that supremacy — white population demographics — finally gives way.
And THAT, folks, is why immigration is currently the issue that it is. It isn’t about jobs and government services (although that’s a side issue that is an important impact, without question). It’s about the overall population demographics of the United States, and an overarching cultural/political goal of the Left that has been at least two generations in the making, and is now reaching its end-game phase. That’s why there’s such a bitter fight about something as seemingly obvious (to most countries, that is) as tightly regulating immigration. Immigration, in this case, “isn’t about immigration” …. it’s about the overarching goal of ending “white supremacy”. This is why we can’t have an open and rational argument about it nationally, like other countries do — it’s a fundamental part of the political “permanent win” strategy of one half of the political world here, and as such it’s basically “off limits” to any kind of change that would actually significantly *reduce* immigration levels.
Men and women are different, and compete for status in different ways.
http://www.paigespiranac.com/
All female racing series has begun this year. Pay gap controversy soon to follow.
https://www.driving.co.uk/news/female-racing-series-reveals-18-competitors-2019/
(for Opus and national pride: “The UK is particularly well represented in the inaugural W Series, as all five British applicants made the cut.”)
We could do this all day.
@Nova
The solution to this “problem” is, of course, to reduce the percentage of white people as a percentage of the total population.
South Africa is the goal state for the SJW’s.
@Frank K
“If you want to offend an American prog, tell him or her that outside of the US no one cares about women’s football.”
You can also offend older tradcons, I think, at least from what I saw. I’ve talked to a couple recently and they seemed to be going out of their way to show off the fact that they ‘couldn’t wait’ for the final, and that these women are ‘such great athletes.’ Their autopilot, pedestalizing chivalry seemed to win out over their patriotism as they didn’t seem too hung up on Rapinoe’s (incredibly stale) snubbing of the anthem. Actually, rooting for the good ol’ USA is still patriotic, so call that a wash with the anthem snub. Then the chivalry angle really gave it some virtue appeal for the tradcons I talked to. That their granddaughters are tough, little soccer players surely factored in.
The elite whites who run the Democrat party don’t care so much about what color of skin the peons have as they care that they are peons.
What they fail to grasp, as do some here, is that a middle class or umc “hispanic” person is a white person. That’s how racial identification works south of the border. People who we consider black or brown are white if they’re economically successful.
Furthermore Hispanic isn’t really a group anymore than white nationalism is a widespread sentiment. Many denizens of various hispanic countries hate each other. The most well known rivalry being between Cubans and Mexican.
As for the middle class drones, they believe whatever they are told. Today Clinton is a saint, tomorrow the devil. Oceania has always been at war with East Asia.
You are right to believe they wish to enslave you, wrong to believe this is about race. Ethno nationalist movements do exist, but the most powerful one in the USA, black nationalists(who were segregationist anyways) don’t control the D party.
The fundamental blindness of ethno nationalism is to not realize there are many people of your own race(in addition to those of other races), who would happily enslave you.
Girl’s soccer seems to churn out shark-eyed, ‘future is female’ masculine jerks at near perfect efficiency. Hope Solo, Rapinoe, low-class Alex Morgan. The sport seems to drain estrogen from their bodies. I include a lot of the girls I’ve known, family members etc. Girls who play soccer for years are generally awful. If you want toxic masculinity, the place to go is women’s soccer.
OT. A candidate tries the Pence (formerly Graham) rule:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/10/politics/robert-foster-reporter-mississippi/index.html
I’m with opus on this
“White” for whatever it’s creation and use was originally is meaningless and is actually now a pejorative
My culture is basically old stock “American” which was for a brief moment in history a discernible construct.
Ethnically I’m Scot-Irish-Serb. I have nothing in common with a Frenchman or German. Watching “American” dissolve in front of me has been very distressing. So I am falling back to an older OS.
@ Opus
You’ve said this repeatedly in other threads…but it’s not really true. It’s not true that “no woman can match even the lower-ranked” GMs. There are right now at least 30 female grandmasters out a worldwide total of 1600 or so. And one woman, Judit Polgar, was ranked as high as 8th in the world at one point–her accomplishments are not remotely in doubt and she’s respected by male GMs for the quality and energy of her games. Of course, these exceptions don’t invalidate the general idea behind your comment but you are asserting things are verifiably wrong.
I love chess and am a former tournament competitor myself and continue to follow the game quite closely so this actually matters to me. Either stop opining on matters where you have little knowledge or update your information.
America is a country large in extent and also in population so let me put it this way: The Scots hate the English as do the Welsh and the Irish and the English look with mild contempt on the Jocks and the Micks and regard the Taffys as a bunch of people who spend too much time with farmyard animals. As a nearly adolescent there were non-stop jokes which began “There was an Englishman, a Scotsman, a Welshman and an Irishman”. The butt of the joke was always the Irishman – actually it was rather bonding but these days the morality police would surely cart you off to the nick should you tell one (but I could never remember them so i am safe there). It was worse than that however and I must observe that England is in area no larger than the state of New York yet The Southerners are contemptuous of those further north with their long vowels and accents who in turn look on us southerners as a bunch of sissies, whereas the Southerners look on those in the east (Anglia) and those in the West (Wessex) as sheep shagging yokels. Cornwall further southwest thinks that it is a different place anyway and to prove that has its own language. The Midlands are however the heart of darkness unremarkable in every way and the accent only one hundred miles form London is an embarrassment to the Queens English. Now I have never been further north than the Watford Gap but I am told that Yorkshiremen loath those from Lancashire and the feeling is mutual. But it is worse than that for in Lancashire is a city and port known as Liverpool which hosts two professional football teams which loath each other and not least because one is staunch Protestant and the other of the Roman persuasion. That partisanship spills over (you may take my word for it) even to the law firms.
Above, I have said some kind words about the Indians. I feel much the same provided they are not assaulting or robbing other people though they usually are about those from the Caribbean. I have however not a moments sympathy for those who are here illegally even when their tower block is an inferno or who are here courtesy of the European Union or the former Soviet Union or from places (such as Somalia or Syria) which were never ours in the first place. Kiwis, Canucks and Ozzies are kin as are proper Americans like Scott. South Americans especially Argies and other than those from British Honduras do not belong here either.
Race here then is a strange matter. No reparations because no one was a slave though frankly from what I read the slaves were usually better off than say those in Northern Mill towns like Manchester or the miners wherever there were mines – coal or tin which in the case of tin goes back to the Romans and is there not a story that your man Jesus and Joseph of Arimathea visited Cornwall and its tin mines. America’s big problem so I see it is that it does not have anything from which to Brexit.
@Dragnet
I always understood that Judit Polgar was ranked at about number 55 in her competitive days but obviously my information was defective yet even so she is surely the exception to a very definite rule. Far be it for me however to question you as someone involved in Chess and as a former tournament competitor, yet 30 female GrandMasters out of 1600 is surely pretty much the thirty to one ratio I mentioned though in fact somewhat worse. I am not a Chess player and every time I play my lap-top I lose but when I watch agadmators channel on Youtube all the games he talks us through (other than those between computers) are between men. I presume he does this because they are the most interesting games and not because he is a misogynist indeed from what I have heard he is not exactly impartial to the female sex..
I was listening a while back to my wireless and a discussion ensued as to games – there seem to be two types; chasing games and attacking games. Anyway, two Chess experts GrandMaster Nigel Short of whom I assume you are familiar and, I believe, chess journalist GM Michael Adams were asked by the interviewer as to the lack of women in and women’s success in Chess. One could hear even over the FM airwaves the embarrassment of Short and Adams as they began to make embarrassed excuses for the fair sex. They squirmed. Had the ground opened and swallowed them up they would hardly have been less ill-composed.
I once saw Short in the Strand and this would have been at the time he was challenging Kasparov for the world championship, one cold morning as I was on my way to chambers. He was with a male companion. I observed that he was tall and he was wearing – and you never see this nowadays – a very long fur coat.
@Opus – Good luck with Ol’ Blighty over there. Does this comport to your viewpoint on the ground?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/atheism-islam-rise-uk-christianity-111130903.html
If you want to offend an American prog, tell him or her that outside of the US no one cares about women’s football.
Frank K says:
July 10, 2019 at 10:44 pm
When the Men’s world cup is played, things come to a grinding halt when your country is playing, because everyone watches the match. Portable TV’s are brought to the work place and everyone pretends to work while watching the match (except in the US).
During the Euro in 2016, I know that 40M people at least watched France, on a population of 70M people.
For the world cup, it was minimum 25M viewers, in France.
USA, who is 400M, didn’t even do 40M viewers, (10%). That’s low.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/49391/walsh-us-womens-soccer-team-very-hard-video-shows-matt-walsh
Elspeth,
Anon is wrong about all ethnic nationalism automatically evolving into woman worship. From what I have seen, black ethnic nationalism (if that’s the proper term) almost always goes misogynistic at its most extreme,
This is a rare exception to the norm. Black lefty women fixate on racial issues far more than gender, yes. This is partly due to a a peculiarity of American culture that could never scale globally, and partly due to the fact, *on average*, that black men have a much higher inter-racial SMV than black women.
Chris Rock had a very funny bit about this back in 2008. He said that black women are even more opposed to BM-WW pairings than White Supremacist men (which is saying something), vocalized as “Why you taking all our good black men?? We only got eight!!!”.
By the same token, race/ethnic loyalty is the absolute lowest among East Asian and Slavic women, for very similar reasons.
@Damn Crackers
That is a difficult question. The article was obviously in favour of the rise of Islam and fall of Christianity (such that I would be sceptical of their figures). The increase in Islam is I suspect pretty much equal to the increase in immigrants who are Islamists. The increase in Atheism looks to me more like a fad among the trendy. The English are not very religious generally but jihadists are not going to indulge in the niceties of whether you are a true believer or just a bit luke-warm as they raise their machette. What I observe is that the very people who will tell you of a lack of a belief in the OT and the NT are usually the very people likely to be offended greatly when you point out (say – but there are copious other examples) that global warming is a scam. They are true rationalists and religion is a bunch of fairy stories but how dare you question an idea which has little more going for it than publicity of the ‘if you repeat anything enough times it becomes true’ variety. Like the Romans they realise that someone (say climate change deniers) needs to be sacrifced to appease the angry god of climate and the more expensive the tribute to this god the greater the likelihood of assuaging his anger – no wonder they dislike Mr Trump. There seems to be a pick and mix variety of beliefs that most people have which has no over-riding coherency or focus yet they do not see their beliefs as being of a religious nature when I say they are just that. Everyone even including Richard Dawkins believes in Jesus.
https://nypost.com/2019/07/11/mississippi-politician-tells-female-reporter-she-cant-interview-him-unless-shes-with-a-man/
Novaseeker,
How close to feminism does Venezuela track? Perhaps it is really great, but I doubt it.
That is the problem here. Things will certainly not change without an upheaval, but import enough people who don’t value “American values” or even “Western values” and you will end up with a system that breaks down radically, per Venezuela and other locations.
Just because it hasn’t happened doesn’t mean it will never happen. Do you really think the modern system is sustainable over the long term, say 100-200 years?
Opus,
Islam has had other falls. Its empire is much smaller than it was and definitely doesn’t have the same influence. Christianity has never lost. It has shrunk to smaller communities that kept the faith out of the main focus, but it has and will remain until the Founder returns.
Everyone even including Richard Dawkins believes in Jesus.
Yup. But to what effect?
And unclean spirits, when they saw him [Jesus], fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.
Mark 3:11
???
He will when he faces Him, but I don’t think he does now. Perhaps in the historical Jesus, but that is a huge difference.
@ Elspeth,
I could be wrong (I’ll defer to your knowledge here), but from what I’ve observed, with a few notable exceptions, no one defends single moms more ferociously than black men.
What do you think?
@BillyS – perhaps he does believe now. The New Testament makes the case that believing in Jesus is not what makes the difference. For the demons believed in Jesus and believed that he was the Son of God. They believed in God to the point that they trembled.
Jesus said the two greatest commandments were to love God/Jesus and love your neighbor. Then he says “if you love me, keep my commandments”. He also says that not everyone who invokes the name of the Lord and does things in his name will enter heaven. Only those who do the will of the Father who sent Jesus will enter heaven.
“Beliving in Jesus” is necessary, but not sufficient.
I think too many people do not understand that distinction.
Nobody says this because it’s just not nice to say, but the honest truth is that in general female sports, especially women’s soccer and basketball, are downright underwhelming events for most spectators.
Women’s college basketball and the WNBA, for example, are not entertaining at all anymore, mainly because nobody enjoys watching events where pervasive airballs, turnovers, traveling, double-dribbling, irresponsible passing, awful defense, poor hand-to-eye coordination, failure to box-out and rebound properly ALWAYS HAPPENS.
To the contrary, it’s actually aggravating for the average fan to watch 5 minutes of it, let alone a full game. Even your most hard core female basketball fans soon are befallen with “forgiveness fatigue” from having to repeatedly mentally excuse the female players they are spectating for constantly screwing up and turning it over.
Girls high school basketball final scores of 32 to 14 are the rule, not the exception.
Girls soccer can actually be far worse.
While it’s true that men’s NBA basketball is replete with a lack of defense, it actually makes up for it with offensive dominance, aggression, physique and elegant athleticism and theatrics.
The earlier comment about gymnastics, tennis and ice skating is interesting different. Perhaps because the costumes/uniforms are more elegant, feminine form fitting and attractive.
Just look at this video of the women’s world cup attendance. That’s awful.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/womens_football/womens-world-cup-2019-tickets-fifa-empty-seats-stadiums-capacity-prices-a8953806.html
Is it really FIFA’s fault that women’s soccer is excruciating to watch?
Did you know that if you are a citizen of the U.S. and marry a female who’s not a citizen of the U.S., that “a 10-year liability on the sponsor for certain types of government-based financial assistance that the foreign spouse – and the spouse’s children – may access in the future.”
Yes, the sponsor is held responsible for the costs of a foreign national who goes on welfare after the break-up of a marriage and the U.S. government sues you to recover the costs involved. Of course, this is on top of all the alimony and child support, if children are present (you didn’t have to conceive them). And your ex mail-order almost always gains permission to remain in the United States despite the marriage breakdown by proving extreme hardship or that the marriage was entered into in good faith, etc… so she’ll be around to run you down to everyone that will listen for say… the rest of her natural life.
The world is as it is and men should learn to take it as it is rather than stumbling through it like an ignorant retard with their head in the clouds. The only real way to protect yourself in this radical feminist environment is not to marry or cohabitate nor have progeny (outside of an iron clad surrogate contractual relationship).
That’s my point. On a one to ten scale Dawkins is only a one Jesus believer, (up from his previous zero) but on the same scale he is, I presume, and will remain a zero Santa Claus believer. I think that having an established church and given that most forms of enthusiasm are in England seen as a bit suspect most English people feel they can outsource their religious beliefs. Dawkins may once have railed against religion but actually by English standards he is a typical Anglican. The English may not go much to church but they would miss it and even Dawkins would write indignant letters to The (London) Times were it not there. Having spent a year (as you know) in your United States the difference I found in attitude to religion is quite noticeable. I assume it cannot have changed – that much. As Prime Minister Blair famously said ‘we don’t do God’ by which he meant that any politicians in England who wrapped themselves in God would be election toast whereas every American President even Mr Obama and not withstanding your separation of Church and State is only too keen to let his audience know of his Christian credentials. Melania, I recall seeing on YouTube, read The Lord’s Prayer at one of Mr Trumps rallies. Were the wife no matter how charming of an English Prime Minister to do that she would be heckled and with cat calls for her to ‘get ’em off’. Indeed the very fact that she was at the rally at all (not that any British P.M. would have a rally – simply too redolent of Nuremberg in the 1930s) would be a bit suspect.
I think I can then just about segue into the following. On the wireless last night (national radio) they did a fifteen minute piece read and written by a woman about one of our local theatres and so I was curious to hear what was said. What is distinctive about the theatre is that it was built over one hundred and fifty years ago as a church but due to declining church attendance closed and was deconsecrated. A better fate for it perhaps than another former church only a hundred yards or so away built in Greek Temple style which is now better known as St Habitats (makers of trendy furniture). As a theatre I have always thought it entirely inappropriate. Worse still the real local theatre (an absolute jewel of 1900s architecture) is now a pub!. Don’t get me on the destruction of the unique 1930s cinema. Trust me the Luftwaffe could not have made a worse mess of things. This is what the woman in what must have been one of the most dull radio broadcasts ever (a graduate of Cambridge University) said. I paraphrase: that there was a continuity linking the former worshipers with the now theatre-goers – as if a Synagogue were taken over by Nazis – and according to her the purpose of religion as much as theatre is {drum roll} ………. to bring people together. So that is what it has come down to: religion is merely a social meeting club where people feel good – no mention of salvation. This (having looked at her Facebook page where she supports all the trendy causes and is ‘friends’ with some people I have long known) of course is utterly predictable – all touchy-feely female-centric kumbaya-ism.
Just because it hasn’t happened doesn’t mean it will never happen. Do you really think the modern system is sustainable over the long term, say 100-200 years?
Billy —
No-one can predict what will happen in 100 or 200 years. There are far too many wildcards, technological changes, other things that come out of the blue and have an impact, such that predicting things, either way, that far out is more an act of creative fiction than anything else.
I wasn’t suggesting that because the left has won the match at this point, that their system will dominate for the next bajillion years. Of course not. However, they have won the *now* fight, which is the one relevant for everyone who is around today. That was my point.
How long will that last? At least a few generations. So maybe 30-50 years. It’s very hard to predict anything past a 30 or so year timeframe because the pace of change is so fast today, and there are unpredictable wildcards that come in and have a large impact. 30 years ago, for example, was 1989. I think someone trying to predict where we would be culturally, politically, economically and demographically now from the perspective of 1989 would have gotten things mostly wrong, so it’s very hard to predict even that far out, never mind beyond that. However the left has won *this* match — that is the fight for this generation and the next couple — the millenials and the zoomers — at least — which means that it’s very likely that this system will be ascendant for at least a couple of generations, or around 30-40 years. After that, who knows? Likely there will be technological changes, geopolitical changes, demographic changes that we can’t see coming that will have a large impact either way.
Nova/BillyS
I went to graduate school with a guy (a year ahead of me) who is now a social psychology professor. He and I disagree on most things, but he is a prolific publisher of material on these macro topics.
I asked him once, what is to become of guys like me? Families like mine? Where do we go? I am only 48 and I am not dead yet. I am right in the middle of my highest earning potential years. I have a family to provide for. In the light of how more and more people who inch just a tiny bit to the left of the narrative are squeezed out of the workplace, am I to just be put out to pasture? I grew up with a particular set of social circumstances and norms that I had every right to believe would remain more or less constant and I still operate according to them. (Or try to).
This was very disconcerting for him. It was as if he had never thought of it before.
It took him like a month to get to back to me and he started asking the same thing of his liberal colleagues who were indignant. Their answer is basically, guys like that have to either dump their backwards beliefs or be left out in the cold. Shut out of the job market, polite company, etc.
He finally started suggesting that we need to consider “reorganizing” our society around new paradigms of what it means to be free, and to hold true to your beliefs without fear of being anathematized. It’s a very vague sentiment, but at this point, I agree.
The solution, before the gulags and reeducation camps start is something we have not thought of yet. I only hope someone does before its too late.
Further–in other words, the answer isn’t “libertarianism” or “Jeffersonian Republic” or “the constitution.” It’s something totally different.
@ Oscar:
I could be wrong (I’ll defer to your knowledge here), but from what I’ve observed, with a few notable exceptions, no one defends single moms more ferociously than black men.
My observation is quite different, actually. I haven’t heard many -if any- black men ferociously defending single mothers. I have seen men defend their OWN mothers, but not single mothers in aggregate. In fact, I’ve heard just the opposite. Venomously so, in fact. To which I say pot, meet kettle, smh.
The few that I have heard actively defend single mothers do so primarily because of their own life choices. Namely, that they had children with women they were unwilling or unsuited to marry. It’s easier to do that than do what my husband did; confess their sin, repent, and do better moving forward. Not only chicks have rationalization hamsters.
My anecdotal observations of the last decade are pretty self-selected. Our social circle is not even close to being mostly black and the people we are closest to among black family and friends who “knew us when” skews strongly religious, but not evangelical, so no woman worship. And the Afrocentric religious ones (to address Anon’s original assertion) really are misogynistic. I think you’ve read enough of me to know I wouldn’t use that word lightly.
“https://nypost.com/2019/07/11/mississippi-politician-tells-female-reporter-she-cant-interview-him-unless-shes-with-a-man/”
Can’t blame him. Some dude was recently accused of rape for being a Good Samaritan when he helped a woman with her car trouble.
@ elspeth
You would know better than I would, so like I said, I defer to your knowledge on this question.
Maybe that has something to do with my observation. Most of the black men I know, I met in the Army, and most of them had/have children with women to whom they’re not married.
“While it’s true that men’s NBA basketball is replete with a lack of defense”
Wrong. Hackneyed and inaccurate. That’s a boomer’s cliché about the NBA. It doesn’t matter though since I’m moving away from sportsball almost entirely. Down to some select college football games.
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Further–in other words, the answer isn’t “libertarianism” or “Jeffersonian Republic” or “the constitution.” It’s something totally different.
This. Right on Scott.
Further–in other words, the answer isn’t “libertarianism” or “Jeffersonian Republic” or “the constitution.” It’s something totally different.
Yup. It would have to be something totally different, I agree, but who knows what that is, and between now and then it won’t be good for dissenters.
As an aside, the Constitution is likely to change, one way or the other — either they will abrogate it and replace it with something else by fiat, or they will enlarge the Sup Ct (as they have already publicly said they plan to do) to get it to amend the Constitution more vigorously by judicial action, or some other way, but the current Constitution won’t, in effect, last out the 21st Century I think, so placing hope in that is foolish, imo.
Unpossible! Libertarianism would turn Nigerian Scrabble champions into a first rate economic engine!
Women’s soccer is comparatively better in the US than other countries because we have state mandated Title IX funds creating teams and scholarships from nothing, and no matching boys teams because said funding and spots already go to football, basketball, or baseball. So we have more UMC patents putting their girls in soccer early on for a chance at that sweet scholarship and that creates a larger talent pool than there is for the American mens leagues.
Scott,
They claim that, but they only want you to be free and to hold to your beliefs if those are acceptable to them, currently. They are complete hypocrites in this, but no one is truly challenging them yet, at least no one who can stay visible to the public and make a true difference now.
Very true. We can never go back to some mythical past or libertarian paradise (that will never work either). Most libertarians embrace the movement to have homosexuality shoved all over us anyway, so they are complete fools. They want people to be free to make choices, but support who shove those choices on others, precluding others from having choices.
Nova,
Not completely true. You could predict that things would end up this way after the US Civil War.
(The War of Northern Aggression per some.) Centralized control leads to idiocy like this. Much of the immoral behavior has been seen in some societies in the past.
Proclaiming “it won’t change” and then redefining that to mean “in the next 30 years” is a bit disingenuous. I haven’t heard anyone say it would change in the next few years, but it will change since it is unsustainable. That is what I have been asserting for quite a while.
I do expect things to get worst and more dystopian along the way there however, unfortunately, but they will change because they are not sustainable. Just as homosexual marriage was suddenly embraced, so too can other things pushing the other way get suddenly embraced. Not even the progressive left’s Saint Obama saw that one coming when he was running for president the first time. How can anyone be certain what will happen even the next 5-10 years with a strong example like that? Though I would agree that it is unlikely to change that quickly, since they keep pushing off the consequences.
I made a job application last night to a place that asked about my LGBT stance. (I think I said “I prefer not to state) for that. I probably killed my chances with that, but it may be for the better. I could force myself to fly with my head low, but such a company is very foolish. The rot is deep, but that doesn’t mean it is permanent.
They have already modified the US Constitution as well, in practice if not literally. How anyone could read a right to abortion into it or a right to force homosexual marriage on everyone shows that it is meaningless now, as two prominent examples, one a fair ways back now.
BillyS
You could predict that things would end up this way after the US Civil War.
Ah….no. Not even close.
For example, the 19th Amendment gave US women the right to vote. One of the arguments common just 100+ years ago? Women are more virtuous than women, therefore they will clean up politics by their voting.
Predictions are hard. Especially about the future.
@BillyS
Those people can have their hypocrisy pointed out all day. But they dont care. Unless they are hoisted on their own petard.
Like falling into their own traps.
E.g
They say they love immigration. But when migrants were dumped in their own secluded neighbourhoods suddenly they changed tack.
Cane Caldo squawked :
Unpossible! Libertarianism would turn Nigerian Scrabble champions into a first rate economic engine!
Nobody suggested anything of the sort.
But it is telling that you so unwittingly broadcast how utterly butthurt you are by the link of the Scrabble champions list. The list only reveals two things :
i) 98% of the Top-100 Scrabble champions are men (no surprise to red-pill guys here).
ii) Black African men are pretty numerous among the champions, and thus greatly outperform all women (white or otherwise). While a normal person is not bothered by this, someone like Cane Caldo agonizes for days when seeing this. This is because the primary reason such people flunk out of anti-misandry and default into the vastly easier ‘muh tribe’ as their core ideology, is that in their quest for an ideology that is simple enough for them, such a dataset greatly disrupts their one liner conclusions about cognition and intelligence, which means the rigor quickly surpasses their capacity.
This does not mean blacks can create first-world countries, but it refutes the premise that blacks are the subhumans that Nationalist-Leftists like Cane need them to be.
While a normal person is not bothered by this, someone like Cane Caldo agonizes for days when seeing this.
You are the easily triggered individual who starts bleating “race trashionalist” whenever any of these topics comes up. Like Cane, I grow weary of it. At least just say raciss like the rest of the Left.
This is because the primary reason such people flunk out of anti-misandry and default into the vastly easier ‘muh tribe’ as their core ideology, is that in their quest for an ideology that is simple enough for them, such a dataset greatly disrupts their one liner conclusions about cognition and intelligence, which means the rigor quickly surpasses their capacity.
Just because you are a binary thinker doesn’t mean everyone else is.
This does not mean blacks can create first-world countries, but it refutes the premise that blacks are the subhumans that Nationalist-Leftists like Cane need them to be.
This whole final statement is a sad pile of lies and slander. Sort yourself out.
Say what? We had a layoff scare where I work 2 years ago, and I applied for several jobs, via the ubiquitous online mechanisms, like Taleo. No one asked me that question. They asked me “optional” questions about race, gender, physical disability and Veteran status but I don’t recall seeing questions on “stances” of any sort.
Then again, things are changing so quickly that who knows what it standard today. I’ve also heard of potential employers asking for your Facebook account so they can look at what you post there and in other social media, though I have never experienced that. In any case I don’t have Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat accounts or whatever is trendy these days.
This is what the new Left believes today. Witness how AOC and her cohorts have been attacking Nancy Pelosi. You don’t have to be an Orthodox Christian to be considered “extreme” and worthy of being shut out of the job market and ostracized for what you believe, that fate is what’s in store for anyone to the right of the new Left, and the Democrat old guard is scared. I mean, just look at how the presidential candidates tripped over each other promising free health care to illegal immigrants. To say something sensible, such as “There are are far too many unemployed Americans living in tents, we need to take care of them first.” will get a Democrat candidate labelled as a neo fascist by new Left.
Reblogged this on Free Matt Podcasts and commented:
Food for thought; politely borrowed from Dalrock:
Is it possible that (a) less people care about women’s soccer around the world (b) the athletes dont present that entertaining a level of play?
I am not one to compare apples and oranges but I could silence the critics if the women’s world cup team went against the men’s team.