In response to Giving thanks for fathers commenter Oratorian wrote:
Coming to this a little late, but does anyone have any insight about how the father-son passing on of masculine roles works among men who are NOT interested in or capable at things like car maintenance and DIY?
Without wishing to criticise any of Dalrock’s points, it’s a fact that not all fathers are particularly practical (mine wasn’t), and being hugely practical can’t be an essential masculine trait, so whenever the discussions becomes centered around this kind of activity I feel as though part of the conversation’s been missed out.
I wanted to respond to this in a post instead of a comment because it is an excellent question. On top of that, the rest of his comment is also outstanding. Not only does he go a long way towards answering the question he poses, but he demonstrates thankfulness for his own father, which was the primary point of the post:
My father was an intellectual type, and I rather take after him. He introduced me to what you might call intellectual masculinity. We debated things in depth and he expected me to read widely and make strong arguments with him, and he would have considered it feeble (not necessarily feminine) if I’d taken easy options and accepted received opinions without examining them.
We chopped logs together and unblocked our drains, and he involved me in odd jobs around the house sometimes, but there wasn’t the level of intense mechanical or otherwise practical work going on as so many commentators here describe.
I’m not hugely practical myself and I’ve got very limited experience of using tools and doing DIY, and now that I’m a father (one son so far) I want to know how I can present a good model of masculinity to my son without excelling at that kind of thing.
The short answer I would offer is to focus first on teaching your son what you know as a man. Skills are very important, but you are also teaching your son about manhood in general and who you are as a man in the process (even if you aren’t really trying to). If you can honestly say “This is what my father taught me” this will imbue it with additional meaning, even if it doesn’t register with him immediately. It will be a connection he has not only with you, but with your father as well.
From there I would think about any other skills you want him to learn even if you haven’t mastered them yourself. Here in the sphere we could quickly come up with an extensive list of things it is good for a man to know or be able to do. With the exception of faithfully and seriously worshiping Christ, most if not all of these aren’t essential to be a Christian man, but they are still manly things and good things to have. It isn’t that a “real man” should be able to do all of them or even any one of them, but it would be good if he can do some of them. I’m sure others will have much to add in the comments, but off the top of my head:
- Lifting weights.
- Sports.
- Martial arts.
- DIY/maintenance/repair.
- Shooting (including gun safety and maintenance/cleaning).
- Hunting.
- Fishing
- Basic outdoor skills like building a fire.
- Cooking with fire (grilling and smoking).
Part of what I would consider here is that as the distinction between the sexes is continuously blurred, showing mastery of more manly traits (especially hands on manly traits) helps a man stand out as a man. So just from that frame alone you may want to consider how you can strategically expand your son’s horizons. There is also the idea of contrast Game that could work in your son’s favor. If he has mastered the intellectual world and also is the only man in his peer group who can with confidence change a tire, start a fire, shoot and break down an AR 15, and clean a fish he will have a leg up when competing for a wife. He’ll get bonus points if he can manage to be a bit mysterious about how much he knows and how exactly he came to know how to do all of these things.
As you come to your own conclusion on what additional things you would like him to learn, the question turns to how to make this happen. My father taught me how to shoot, but has never had any interest or skill in fishing or hunting. When I was growing up and interested in these things my father made it possible for me to go fishing with men he knew who had an interest in it, and he got me started as best as he could by taking me to a trout farm when I was little. When I was in high school he also took me and a few of my friends on a deep sea fishing charter trip. Later friends in college and after that my father in law taught me how to hunt and dress out deer and elk.
Some skills you might want to master yourself first before teaching. Others you might want to learn together. And some you might look for others who can teach your son directly. But while skills are good and important, the most important things you will teach your son is who he is as a man. This you will end up doing to one degree or another no matter what specific skills you are teaching him.
Excellent! When I was a boy, my father taught me:
– How to throw a ball
– How to hit a ball
– How to catch a ball
– How to throw a football
– How to paint a picket fence
– How to ice skate
– How to play chess
– What a square root was
– How to rake a lawn
– How to wash a window (which stood me in great stead for moneymaking in high school).
– How to wash a car
– How to fish
– How to shoot a rifle
– How to drive (before the school taught me the other way)
Some of these skills kept me from embarrassing myself in front of my peers, some gained me friends, some earned me money, and the last one got me girls. The boy scouts taught me a few other things, like knots and how to build a fire. All the important stuff (including radio announcing, computer programming and electronics) I learned from men.
For me, it’s easy to identify what being a man is NOT:
• Out drinking the next guy
• Defining myself by my possessions: a fast car or big home
• Having to out-lift the next person at the gym
• Having the loudest voice or most-valued opinion in a conversation, an argument or a meeting
• Carrying a weapon or being able to do violence against another person… especially women
• Being able to fix things
• My gender or my genitals
Manliness is about being fully human. And being fully human is not easy. It means sacrificing my white privilege for the betterment of society. It means listening to strong and confident women. It means giving up your primacy and traditional power within the patriarchy. It means raising up oppressed and marginalized groups.
[D: This bit of trolling was too funny not to let through, even as I am updating the blacklist accordingly.]
There are two areas in which men are very different from women. One is in sheer physicality, going out and changing the world through intelligent use of strength. The other is the ability for abstract thought. The guy you are responding to is almost certainly an abstract thinking who produces his primary value through the use of his mind. That is just as masculine as chopping wood. It’s just a different facet of masculinity.
Women aren’t so good at abstract thought, generally. And they tend to evaluate us based on two criteria – visible physicality, as in strength, muscles, and demonstrated skill (dance, sport, etc). They assess a man’s abstract masculinity by looking at his income. They may not understand or value what he does with his mind, but they understand the money he makes from doing it.
OMG the troll was perfect. Right out of SJW scripture, chapter and verse.
Excellent point Warthog. For a young man the challenge is he likely hasn’t had the chance to gain the markers that come with abstract thought. So having more physical facets will be especially helpful when he is young.
Lol, disregard Dalrock and acquire the Master Troll skillz of John P. Scott! That was too good!
The most impactful things I learned from my dad were not skill sets, or things that required a knowledge of building or repairing things. They were mindsets. I was taught to always work hard at whatever I did. This applied to school work, career, chores, etc. I was taught taught to take responsibility for my actions. If I messed up or got in trouble, my parents did not do what so many parents do today by defending me no matter what. I had to suffer the consequences of my actions. It sucked, but I learned that bad choices often have bad consequences.
The best thing my dad ever did was when I was 12, my dad encouraged (and initially funded) my older brother and I to start a lawn service. He taught us how to mow, weed-eat, edge, and blow yards to make them look great. He made us talk to, negotiate price with, and collect money from our customers. When we wore out the lawn equipment, me made us use our money to buy better equipment. if we wanted more customers, we had to do any selling or marketing of our services to grow our client base. These lessons were invaluable for young teens. It taught us to work hard, how to handle money, how to run a business, how to handle disgruntled employees and customers. It was a great introduction to real life while still in the safety of being under my parents roof. This business was eventually passed down to each of my 5 younger siblings and they were able to learn these lessons as well.
I am not the fixer/builder type who can teach my 5 kids all the things i wish I could. What i can do is what my dad did for me and that is teach them what I know. My 9 and 7 yr old sons are dying to start their own lawn company and so i have been training them on how to operate the equipment and approach our neighbors and try to sell their “services”. I am well aware that if they get one going in the next few years, i will spend most of my weekends helping them till they get established and can drive around on their own. Just like my dad did for me and my brother.
As a dad, there are few things more rewarding than watching your sons grow up and figure things out. I can only hope and pray that the lessons I teach them will stick and that one day they will deem them worthwhile enough to be taught to their sons.
My husband is not a man who can fix things, so he didn’t have much to pass on to our sons in that regard. He did teach them the basics of camping and other outdoor recreation, sports, lawn care, car care, and common sense things that men should know. He and our oldest son really connected over weightlifting, which seems to lead to the teaching of a lot of life lessons.
But I think his most important manly lessons were teaching our boys to make productive use of their time, to work with integrity, to exude a quiet confidence that makes people listen to them, to think for themselves, and how to negotiate with people (which is what he does for a living). Never mind that he can’t fix a leaky faucet (and doesn’t have the patience to watch a you-tube video to learn—that’s where I’m helpful): he’s taught our sons how to be upstanding, godly, practical men who can handle their affairs effectively (and call a plumber when they need to). Fix-it skills are a blessing to have, but I think good character is the best thing a dad can teach a son.
Today I was in Burlington Arcade looking at the Rolex and Cartier watches which I could not afford and wondering where my Father’s watches had go to. He had given me a Timex Tank when I was about ten and I loved that watch. I reflected that he had shown me round London and that he would have liked to be with me this day. He was however for fear of being mistaken for a member of the working class entirely impractical and thus taught me nothing other than my part in the scheme of things. He did this by taking me aside one day when I was about ten years of age and opening his old school atlas. This, he explained, pointing at the parts of the map coloured red, which was almost all of it, is ours and one days it will be your responsibility as a Provincial governor to keep the natives orderly.
Dalrock’s list is rather American biased (no mention of how to wield a Cricket Bat).
I understand that in America it is something like this:
Every Dad has their own take on these things, and there is no one path.I suggest thinking broadly. Personally, I believe the ancient adage that “more is caught than taught.”
I raised two boys doing things, rather than spending my time with them as school. Much of this was in Boy Scouts, in a Troop focused on high adventure activities (troops differ a lot). We did things together, and with other strong men (we had a roster of a-team men as leaders, plus a few impressive women) – and with other boys. They learned as much from the older boys as from the men.
They learned self-reliance, to be a follower and a leader, to plan and improvise, how to cope with adversity (commonplace on treks), and a thousand other things more valuable than the usual High School Shop Lessons so often said to define Being A Man. They saw me lead (our family after action discussions were often brutal – e.g., “Dad, you preach democracy – but rule as a fascist”), And they in turn led others.
I don’t know why, but our troop sent quite a few into the service academies, and others directly into the services (including the merchant marine). That was fantastically rare in the San Francisco Bay Area.
Weightlifting was a huge thing for me as a teenager. It taught me that hard work and consistent effort can actually change who I am. I’ve taken that can-do attitude every where else in my life. I just started training my oldest boy to lift.
@Opus
Brings back fond childhood memories.
Wow, lovely post.
My eldest is only four at the moment, and I have spent quite a lot of time thinking about what it is that I could pass on to him. This is a bittersweet exercise because it always brings a sense of regret for the things that my father could have passed on to me, had he paid attention to it during my childhood. He is a very private person, and I would very much have liked to hear him talk about coping with the highly social aspect of his long career as a school principal. My temperament is very similar, and I have also gravitated toward high visibility positions as an IT consultant and an unpaid pastor.
However, what I’ve pieced together from his behaviour has been very helpful: an appreciation of both the simple and the more refined pleasures in life, and a deep respect for literature and culture along with a playful and rather cheeky attitude towards the infinite variety of human folly.
When it comes to my four-year-old, I spend quite a lot of time mulling over teaching him a pious and God-fearing way of life, as I myself was not brought up to respect such things. The reality of an Almighty and Merciful God is something I wish and pray I could convey to him in both word and deed. I consider this the highest virtue of a father.
The other ways a father can teach him is to show the son what godly femininity looks like. Sometimes a man can learn what masculinity looks like by showing him the contrast, what masculinity is not.Put away the feminine mannerisms, clothes, and habits.
If the mother is in the home or he has sisters, it goes a long way to helping the boy find masculine traits by how he helps and treats his mother and sisters. I regularly instruct my daughter to set the table for her brothers and my sons to speak for or answer for their sister. They are small things, but teaching contrasts is important in our day of gender confusion.
It comes down to resource management and risk management.
You don’t have to learn how to repair cars, but you should learn elements of risk management with the car to take care of it and live frugal enough that you have the resources to pay for any maintenance.
Or “don’t be stupid” (ignore cause and effect) “don’t be wasteful” (ignore long term value). The two natural impulses of girls.
Music is another good one. Singing is the facet that has been on my mind lately. Men-only choirs are rare. When you do happen to hear one, it’s just awesome.
The other ways a father can teach him is to show the son what godly femininity looks like.
And the obverse: how to act like a man, vis-a-vis women.
I think the most important thing you can do for your son is to consistently demonstrate normal behavior in interactions with the women of your family– with your wife, your mother, your daughters and relatives.
Normal, as in, “what sort of face would the ghost of my great grandfather make if his shade were here, right now, watching this little drama unfold.”
“No. You can’t have an iPhone / a pony / next season’s one-molecule-thick graphene “yoga” “pants.” Your mother doesn’t make those decisions.” ==> John Wayne beam
“Open relationship? Uhmmm… Well, yeah, I’ve heard of… I mean, I don’t know, baby…” ==> Clint Eastwood disgust-wince
It’s easy to take the socially-acceptable, passive-bumbling-yes-dear-incompetence route pushed on you, your sons, and your daughters, by the demoralization-perversion complex.
Every step in the opposite direction,– effectively telling them to eat shit– is you, doing the Lord’s work, correctly and righteously. Grandfather approved.
Also, television (and allied conduits of propaganda) must be eliminated.
Just taking a quick break from raising up oppressed and marginalised groups to reply…
Thank you, Dalrock, for going into this at such length, and thanks to the commenters too. I’m sure I’m not alone in finding that having a child has pushed this question further up the agenda than it was before – it’s one of those things that make you take stock and assess yourself. If you’re going to be your son’s number one model of something, you’d better be a good model!
I developed in a rather one-sided way myself growing up, in that I was bookish and fairly bright but had little natural aptitude for physical/practical things or for sports, so I’ve tried to round myself out since my early twenties so as to be more on top of the other side of life too. I took up rock-climbing just after university (my first experience of being halfway good at a sport!), I’ve recently taken up clay-pigeon shooting, and I’m trying to pick up as many skills as I can as I go.
Being born skinny and very fresh-faced didn’t help me much when it came to feeling convincingly masculine (I didn’t need to shave until my early twenties). My general look and demeanour is what you’d probably call “preppy”, so some might say I was starting from a pretty weak position masculinity-wise in the eyes of many Dalrock readers. It’s striking in retrospect just how silly I felt trying to do more classically masculine things, as though even in my early twenties I was play-acting at being a proper man and hoping I wouldn’t just be laughed at. I think that can become self-perpetuating, and hold many young men back from ever taking the plunge, so I’m lucky I was able to break out of that.
I realise now that growing up I was really silly, in a girlish sort of way that I now associate with homosexuals, about practical things. I would wave my hand at the thought of being good at things like that (or even at being good at the more mundane intellectual stuff) and be emphatically non-serious about it in a way than now makes me cringe. I now think that’s a real mark of effeminacy, and I try to squash it when I see it in myself so I don’t pass it on to my son unknowingly.
Whether my son grows up to be an abstract thinker or a hands-on nuts-and-bolts sort of man, I want him to be well rounded growing up in a way I didn’t manage to be, and if I can help him in that I will try very hard to do so. I’ll buy him a ton of books for birthday presents, but he’ll be coming shooting and hiking with me as soon as he’s ready too.
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I would only add that my own hard won knowledge of car fixing that came from owning a jeep and being poor (something I wouldn’t recommend) serves me greatly when going to a mechanic. Though I might have little interest in doing such things myself, knowing how they are done keeps me from being cheated, helps me to determine the competence level of a mechanic, and informs me of what noises and symptoms are less serious than others.
@Hazelshade
The term of art is Male Voice Choirs. Not that rare, especially in Wales. There is a Male Voice Choir in the town where I reside but not a female equivalent.
These are all good, but the real primary skill of a man that needs to be taught to our sons is to be able to stand alone, to stand against the tide, to stand up of for what is right and true. To stand up for justice and to protect the weak. Lastly and most importantly to stand up for God in a secular world.
Boys naturally take an interest in what their fathers do, however, another option is for the father to take up something that his son finds interesting. This probably works better for older sons as they will be learning together as opposed to a young boy who might expect his dad to teach him. A good friend of mine is not much into sports or car/home maintenance. One day, his teenage son came home from high school and wanted to get into astronomy. Neither knew much about it, so they both learned at the same time. Now both belong to several astronomy clubs, take road trips with their telescope to the best spots to view the stars. What a great father/son bonding hobby it has become for them.
Be very careful with sports. The object is to do not to watch. There is already too much sitting on one’s ass, drinking beer and eating chips while using the boob tube to watch others doing.
One of the most male characteristic is visual spatial iq.
Which is why most men are able to rotate objects in their own head and get it right. It was really important for hunting.
BJ: “The other ways a father can teach him is to show the son what godly femininity looks like.”
I tried that. The young men now consider that to be descriptions of a bygone era. As if I was telling them of the era when dinosaurs walked the earth.
I was driving some Order of the Arrow scouts (age 18-21) to an event when we saw some nice girls walking by – modest dress, well made up, skirts. One of the young men shouted “Look, elf maidens!” Elves are, of course, mythical creatures. (We were discussing Lord of the Rings.)
I was discussing good girls with some young men (whom I had trained as boys), using girls from classic films as examples of what to look for. One young man replied that I in effect was advising them to marry “unicorns.” “Of course, if I met one I’d proposed immediately. But they’re an extinct species.”
They blame us for ruining their world. They’re right, of course.
That’s the element missing from this thread. We’re giving them bogus advice, suitable for a world long gone. They have to learn how to find their way in the world we have given them.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/love-sex/109222694/should-wives-be-given-a-cheat-pass-at-christmas
I predict two feminist goals after this: 1. Promote fathers to accept children that aren’t biologically theirs, and 2. Engaging in marriage with the stipulation that there will be no expectation of sex between partners, or that is to say the husband should have no expectation of sex from his wife. This will be presented as an enlightened way to have children, like two friends living together to raise a family.
Oh look, the first is already happening: https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/a52u8v/wife_26f_wants_to_use_a_sperm_donor_because_she/
Boy Scouts might declare bankruptcy: https://nypost.com/2018/12/12/boy-scouts-of-america-may-declare-bankruptcy/
Red Pill Latecomer,
Lots of stories about trusted institutions that failed to protect their people. We’ve all heard the stories about priest of the Roman Catholic Church and Boy Scouts. And there is is this new brutal series in the Star-Telegram:
“Spirit Of Fear”
https://www.star-telegram.com/topics/fundamental-baptist-abuse
“For decades, women and children have faced sexual abuse while worshiping at independent fundamental Baptist churches around the country. The network of churches and schools has often covered up the crimes and helped relocate the offenders.”
Based on even my little experience, I can tell you sad stories about leaders – men – failing their duty as western men to protect the weak in their responsibility. Despicable. Esp since doing so is not even difficult, so long as you are willing to take the blowback.
It is more evidence for Dalrock’s comments about weak men.
Larry Kummer, Editor says:
December 12, 2018 at 6:42 pm
“They blame us for ruining their world. They’re right, of course. That’s the element missing from this thread. We’re giving them bogus advice, suitable for a world long gone. They have to learn how to find their way in the world we have given them.”
10 years ago I apologized to my two 30 yr +/- sons for the state of the world I left them, despite all my trying to be a light.
We do not give them ‘bogus advice’ if we give them the unadulterated and simple Word of God. That can be used whether oppressed by the 3rd Reich or our current world of women demanding the authority of men. Neither is fun nor pretty, but God is always effective in His time, as His Word does not return, lived out by us, void.
@Larry Kummer
“That’s the element missing from this thread. We’re giving them bogus advice, suitable for a world long gone. They have to learn how to find their way in the world we have given them.”
Sadly, this is true.
I have asked this before on this comments section and it didn’t get much response. Might be worth asking again. Am I wrong in seeing that the response to this state of affairs ought not be despair, but regrouping? We have no cultural influence at all, so would it not be wise to try and build little communities where these ideas and standards are enforced and simply work little by little and drip by drip to return something to normal?
As a pastor that is exactly what I am trying to do. It is freakin hard to do, because the culture is so confused. But in my mind, having purpose in life and falling short because you are out-manned by sheer numbers is far preferable to throwing in the towel. Or am I just a glutton for punishment?
What is best in life Conan?
“to drive your enemies before you and hear the lamentations of the women.”
I can’t posit a real answer as I don’t have a son and never will have a son.
A feminazi mother and promiscuous hypergamy put me out of the Game long ago.
“Acquire wealth and disregard women”
Also to slap and destroy the professional victim’s attempts to destroy what is stronger than themselves.Without remorse.Without compunction.Without debate.
These are the people how would see you out of work,and childless,and laugh about it.
@Oratorian
You clearly do get it now. Your son will be in great shape for his quest with a father actively helping him to set a strong frame.
@LK Editor
They blame us for ruining their world. They’re right, of course.
Every generation has “ruined” the world for every succeeding generation. There always has to be someone else to blame. You deal with the world you are living in. The notion that someone before you wrecked it all, in effect ‘victimizing’ you should not be encouraged in men, especially young ones. Men should not be encouraged in this thought process, it is in fact quite womanly. Young men should be encouraged to root hog or die, and not look for who or what to blame for whatever.
Yes, virtually all American men for several generations have been ill advised about women, if we want to isolate a topic. No doubt some individual worlds have been ruined by this, but it’s been part of the family legacy for nearly everyone reading here, their fathers, grandfathers, etc. It can be fixed on a man by man basis, as BJ references, though casualties will continue. Glacial progress is still progress, to wax optimistic.
@BJ
Am I wrong in seeing that the response to this state of affairs ought not be despair, but regrouping?
Or am I just a glutton for punishment?
You are right. Everything that happens to the good will be from the bottom up, one man or small group of men at a time. By all indications posted here so far you are a soldier of God, pursuing His will and trying to set things right in your small corner of the battlefield. Comfort’s got nothing to do with it.
BJ,
I know you are a pastor but that does not mean that you can lead the regroup effort successfully, as you keep trying to bounce between here and Wilson’s blog claiming that Dalrockians cannot see that Wilson is an ally.
Here’s the deal: you are part of the problem. Until you can see WHY Wilson is not an ally of men in this struggle, you are going to lack the necessary understanding to lead an effort to regroup men and their sons in masculinity.
The same reasons the men here would not follow you are the reasons men’s groups in churches across America are not succeeding in supporting each other in proper roles. Masculine men no longer trust the church not to sell them out, and I know you don’t think this applies to you since you read here, but it is worth considering. As a result of learning things in the manosphere (not primarily here btw) I have learned not to trust church leadership any more than political leadership.
Ironic to see this post as I was just reading a pastor’s (Joseph Spurgeon) facebook page and he made a post that said this “I am putting together a list of skills and disciplines that a man needs to be able to master and to teach his sons. I will put my list in the comments. What are some things that you think every man needs to teach his son?”
In comments he comes up with this extensive list. Thoughts?
1. Knot Tying
2. To Navigate with a Compass
3. To Read a Map
4. Use Tools:
a. hammer
b. screwdrivers
c. saw
d. power drill
e. table saw
f. sand paper- electric sander
g. measuring tape
h. band saw
5. Put up Christmas lights
6. Swim
7. Balance a checkbook
8. Put together and live by a budget
9. Saving for future
10. Ride Bike
11. Pitch a baseball
12. Hit a baseball
13. Properly tackle someone in football
14. Pass a Football
15. Dribble a basketball.
16. Put up a tree stand
17. Properly handle a firearm
18. Shoot a bow
19. Track an animal
20. Gut a deer
21. Skin and butcher a deer
22. Basic Self-defense- Throw and block a punch, kick, ect.
23. Proper Outdoor Etiquette
24. Proper Etiquette at the dinner table.
25. Proper Etiquette with a hat
26. Grilling
27. Pitch a tent
28. Start a fire without matches
29. Iron his own clothes
30. Shine a pair of shoes or boots
31. Tie a Tie – both necktie and bowtie
32. Eat Healthy
33. Run 2 miles –
34. Run 5k
35. Prepare and deliver a speech
36. Read Scripture Publicly
37. To be able to write a clear and concise letter
38. To be able to summarize each book of the bible with its main points and key verses
39. To be able to give a summary of the history of the church. To be able to deal with some of the major controversies and advancements throughout church history: The Doctrine of the Trinity, Divinity of Christ, The Problems with Pelagianism, The 5 Solas, Westminister Confession, Fundamentalism vs Liberalism and ect.
40. To be able to clearly explain the doctrines of Grace
41. How to treat women with dignity and care as the lesser vessel.
42. How to discipline your children and your wife.
43. To have a basic understanding of musical notation
44. To be able to analyze a piece of art or work of music
45. To discern between good and bad advice
46. Basic Computer Skills
47. Care for an Animal: Dog, Cat, Chickens, Ect.
48. Ride a 4 Wheeler- Ride a Motorcyle
49. To be able to drive in rain.
50. To be able to drive in snow.
51. Change a flat tire
52. Change oil on a vehicle
53. Mow the yard
54. Use a Chainsaw
55. Chop firewood with an ax
56. To bait and cast a fishing pole
57. To catch a fish
58. Identify constellations
59. Identify types of trees
60. Identify poison ivy, poison oak, and ect.
61. Hang a picture on a wall – find a stud, ect
62. Treat a Snakebite
63. Groom a beard
64. Negotiate for a car/house/ anything else
65. Fix a leaky faucet
66. Basic Firstaid- Frostbite, Sunstroke, CPR, Heimlich
66. Bench Press
67. Squats and dead lifts
68. To memorize scripture
69. Appreciate good poetry and to memorize at least one poem
70. Sharpen a Knife
71. Change a Diaper
72. To shake hands and greet people properly
73. Practice Situational awareness
74. Till a garden.
75. Plant a garden.
76. Weed a garden
77. Harvest a garden
78. Shuffle Cards- Play some basic games- Spades, Hearts, Texas Holdem, Rook
79. To be able to identify the difference between different beers and wines. How to be responsible with alcohol.
80. Perform a fireman’s carry
81. Learn to speak or read a different language (at least some basics)
82. How to treat a woman on a date
83. How to resist sexual temptation.
84. Hitch and back up a trailer
85. Write in Cursive
86. Paddle a boat
87. Drive a Manual
88. Play a song on an instrument
89. Have a good grasp on the doctrine of the lesser magistrate
90. Understand the different spheres of government: Self, Family, Church, Civil
91. Read and understand original historical documents:
a. The constitution
b. the declaration of Independence
c. The Mayflower Compact
d. The Westminster Standards
e. Calvin’s Institutes
f. 95 Thesis
g. The Didache
h. Augustine’s Confessions
i. ect
92. Carve a turkey
93. Shovel Snow
94. Ride a horse
95. Play Pool
96. Make a logical argument- Engage in formal debate
97. Learn the basics of Robert’s Rules of Order
98. Memorize the 10 commandments, the beatitudes, Lord’s Prayer, Apostles’ Creed, Nicene Creed, The Shema Israel
99. Fillet a Fish
100. Tell a Good story
101. How to Pray privately
102. How to Pray in Public
103. How to lead family in worship.
104. To plan and schedule your week
105. To set goals for yourself and family
I am not sure that I agree about women being better at abstract thinking. Almost all of the significant breakthroughs in science came from men and that requires a fair bit of abstract thinking to go outside the existing paradigm.
I was definitely more physical than my wife, but I also out thought her in almost all ways. Perhaps not emotional connections, but she wasn’t that good with those either.
I am not sure writing in cursive has much value anymore. It seems like the modern calligraphy skill. I can barely do it now when it was simple when I got out of high school.
BJ,
The problem is that connecting with other men is so difficult, especially if you are at all introverted. Many men have very busy lives as well, so they think they don’t have time (and often the need) to build up such connections, unfortunately.
@7817
I am not always sure how to respond to your posts. Sometimes, I think you are engaging ideas, but other times I get the feeling you are trying to enforce some kind of blog loyalty to Dalrock. If I am missing something, apologies. But here is my attempt at dialogue.
“I know you are a pastor but that does not mean that you can lead the regroup effort successfully, as you keep trying to bounce between here and Wilson’s blog claiming that Dalrockians cannot see that Wilson is an ally.”
There are many readers of Dalrock who see Wilson as a valuable ally. I know a couple of them, and I suspect there are many more. I know I am one. That you are bothered by the fact that I post here and criticize some ideas here is kind of weird. Just identify the topic you are troubled by and we can hash it out without the loyalty markers. And I never claimed to be able to lead the regroup effort successfully, I just said I was trying instead of walking away.
“The same reasons the men here would not follow you are the reasons men’s groups in churches across America are not succeeding in supporting each other in proper roles. Masculine men no longer trust the church not to sell them out, and I know you don’t think this applies to you since you read here, but it is worth considering.”
Yet, there are numerous men in my church (120 or so men) who are working hard to lead their families and live their single lives in a way that glorifies God and pushes back against the secular onslaught. We are far from perfect and far from changing the world, but we are working together and working hard. We are not being successful because it is me leading, but because it is the Word of God doing what it does. Reading Dalrock has nothing to do with it. He offers ideas and analyses and we read learn.
“As a result of learning things in the manosphere (not primarily here btw) I have learned not to trust church leadership any more than political leadership.”
I am actually not bothered by the fact that you don’t trust church leadership, but by the fact that I don’t hear you trying to build or participate in your community project. Blogging and ideas are important, but you have to eventually hit the ground with other men. Is that something you are doing?
@BillyS
“The problem is that connecting with other men is so difficult, especially if you are at all introverted. Many men have very busy lives as well, so they think they don’t have time (and often the need) to build up such connections, unfortunately.”
If you solve this problem for me, you will make me a rich man, brother.
One possible solution I have heard that is remotely possible is what the Mormons do. I am far from Mormon, but they do tons of business building together, driven by their church goals. That makes it possible for them to spend more time together and make the money necessary to support their families.
@Lost Patrol
“By all indications posted here so far you are a soldier of God, pursuing His will and trying to set things right in your small corner of the battlefield.”
I appreciate the compliment, brother. I am trying and falling off the horse, and getting back up again. Sometimes I am too aggressive and other times I am not aggressive enough. I am just playing the long game.
I also love to read and learn. That’s why I am here. I love debate and discussion and analysis. I send my folk here for the same reason, not to agree with everything, but to think about everything. Given the topic of the OP, I think that is something we ought to teach our sons to do.
Question for the peanut gallery:
Should smoking cigarettes or pipes or cigars be considered a manly feature? Or a vice or a weakness to be eschewed?
I have heard good arguments in both directions and I am not sure.
A father should take his sons to a good church, model Christian behavior, and lead them in family worship. The father must put his relationship with God and his wife first. I recommend John Rosemond’s parenting books on the mechanics of raising children. I think making sure they know how to fight is essential. Women can immediately recognize a healthy man who can defend a family. They also have to have a work ethic. Again, I recommend John Rosemond’s books.
There are too many skills to narrow this down to a set of “musts.” A father can teach his son some things but should teach his sons how to figure things out for themselves.
@BJ
Sometimes, I think you are engaging ideas, but other times I get the feeling you are trying to enforce some kind of blog loyalty to Dalrock. If I am missing something, apologies.
Dalrock has some penetrating analysis of the churcb, but as I think about where to get actionable information about how to teach my sons how to deal with women, other blogs and books have more of that. Dalrock is very good in his niche.
There are many readers of Dalrock who see Wilson as a valuable ally. I know a couple of them, and I suspect there are many more. I know I am one. That you are bothered by the fact that I post here and criticize some ideas here is kind of weird.
The bad thing is when you pose as an ally here then whine on Wilson’s blog about men here confronting you. This is not masculine behaviour. People criticize all the time, and it’s fine, but the ally in the front and whiner in the back is a bad style.
Again. Wilson is not a friend or ally, and that’s not for lack of opportunity. Anyone who persists in false teaching after being presented with the truth by definition is not an ally. Hopefully he will turn back in the future.
I am actually not bothered by the fact that you don’t trust church leadership, but by the fact that I don’t hear you trying to build or participate in your community project. Blogging and ideas are important, but you have to eventually hit the ground with other men. Is that something you are doing?
You are one of the leaders that I would not trust with my family. I’m taking care of my family the best I can in the shadow of the wreckage of the evangelical church. The approval of men like you is no longer a good thing to have. My sons are going to have to learn about God apart from a feminized church, and I’m doing what I can to guide them.
What a tragedy that the unchurched men I work with are better at being men than the church men. At least there is hope. If I can teach my sons how to follow God and the practical skills I have, that’s the most a man can do on his own.
If you solve this problem for me, you will make me a rich man, brother.
/sigh
BJ, being a tobacco user is a waste of money, voluntary degrader of health, sets a bad example, and (since being one means tobacco is 50% likely to be what kills you) shortens the time that a father can provide for his family and parent his children. So, tobacco use is a clear marker for a man being a poorer father, which by my definition is less masculine.
freebird says:
December 12, 2018 at 8:21 pm
“What is best in life Conan?
“to drive your enemies before you and hear the lamentations of the women.”
Some versions of that go on to end with “And to take a man’s wife while he watches”. Ow.
Oratorian’s question contains at least one good truth: The handing down of masculinity isn’t just in the things we do. It’s in our attitudes to what we do.
Where my father taught me carpentry, guns, fishing, winemaking, boat skills, basic plumbing and car maintenance, the thing that I got from him the most was a “binary work ethic”: Do or Don’t Do – don’t procrastinate. Finish the job. Help whoever is at the coal face of work.
When it came to my own son, we did far less of what my father taught me, since I have different interests and a different profession. I taught him weights, martial arts, swimming, helped him with homework and household repairs. What stayed in common was I taught my son the same binary work ethic. He has applied this to his life and has prospered.
If we put the sum of these accumulated passings-on of masculine traits, we have a functional civilisation due to what economists call The Law of Comparative Advantage. This law usually applies to nations, where the geography, resources climate and skills of the populace combine to form goods and services that can be traded world-wide. In this case, it applies to men and how they pass on their unique combination of learned skills.
And of course, women have now uncoupled the chain with frivorce….
This post and the subsequent discussion should be required reading for all fathers.
On the issue of cigars. The point is not that it is or is not manly. Rather, does it generalize into a broader context about what men “do,” or can be seen to be doing.
In my small circle of friends there are three families. One father has 12 kids, the other has 2 and I have my 4. When we get together at each others houses, it is a wonderful time with eighteen of our offspring running about (the small ones), holding the baby (the pre-teen girls) and having semi-grown up conversations (the teenagers).
At one point in the evening, the three of us dads (all red-piled) head to the firepit, and smoke cigars. No one else is invited, and no one else asks. This happens every time, without fail. The topics we cover in our discussions run from mundane to serious. But we talk about them in ways that men do. It is a mix of humor, accountability, problem solving, etc. At one point, everything that needed to be said is said, and we all instinctively know it is time to come back in.
Our wives do not make snarky smart-ass comments about it. “Did you and the boys have fun with your cigars.”
This is what makes cigars manly. It doesn’t really matter what the activity is.
(Note: One of the boys is 22 and is a cop. Sometimes he comes to these gatherings and is permitted to join us. The others will be old enough soon).
@BJ “Am I wrong in seeing that the response to this state of affairs ought not be despair, but regrouping? We have no cultural influence at all, so would it not be wise to try and build little communities where these ideas and standards are enforced and simply work little by little and drip by drip to return something to normal?”
You are correct. However in my observations (not ‘experience’ as I’m a bachelor and have no children) the weakest link in this approach is the children, and mostly daughters. Observing RC children growing up over two decades at a Trad Latin Mass chapel – even with home schooling – it’s very difficult to isolate the children from the toxic cultural influence in a metropolitan or suburban environment. (Rural *might* be easier.) I’ve seen a few sons defect but it’s mainly daughters who defect and are absorbed by the toxic culture. It’s very difficult in this day and age for fathers to keep their daughters on a tight leash. Assuming dad even knows he has to do so, even his wife might not be 100% behind him.
“What are some things that you think every man needs to teach his son?”
Extensive lists like this are ridiculous and can only make beleaguered dads feel even more inadequate. And this is only ‘some’? That is, there are twice as many that aren’t listed? If a father has his sons about him as head of the family, he will impart knowledge as situations come up in everyday life as befits their station in life.
LOL!
I found this highlighted on DrudgeReport.com:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/boy-scouts-of-america-considers-bankruptcy-filing-amid-sex-abuse-lawsuits-11544649657
Apparently the Boy Scouts are considering filing for Bankruptcy due to sex abuse lawsuits. Who could have ever seen that coming.(sarcasm)
Founded in 1910, the Boy Scouts group says that more than 110 million people have participated in its educational programs, which promote outdoors skills, character-building and leadership.
They used to promote more than just that; like when we all vowed “To do my duty to God and my country …; To keep myself … morally straight.“
@Luke
I would like to add that men who are worthwhile who voluntarily take jobs that involve overwork are also bad fathers by setting bad examples and depriving them of paternal investment.
A weak or abusive father also has a similar impact as his absence.
By Luke’s logic, anything a man can do to relax him, is enjoyable, provides a context for male only space and bonding BUT increases his risk of death is unmanly and makes him a bad father.
Extensive lists like this are ridiculous and can only make beleaguered dads feel even more inadequate. And this is only ‘some’? That is, there are twice as many that aren’t listed? If a father has his sons about him as head of the family, he will impart knowledge as situations come up in everyday life as befits their station in life.
Yep.
For the one trait (if one exists) that is ubiquitous among men is quantifying ones self in the search for inadequacies and then trying to improve upon them. This may have been a good trait to have when dads were in charge of everything. And when there was cultural and values homogeneity among them.
Today, with a totally feminized civilization and white knights everywhere it’s a recipe for disaster.
“Uh oh. I can only do 47 of the things on that list! My friend Jeff can do 48. What’s the use of trying to be a good man/dad?”
info says:
December 12, 2018 at 6:16 pm
One of the most male characteristic is visual spatial iq.
Which is why when they started “sex norming” all the intelligence tests, about 70 years ago. they had to pull most of those types of questions off of the tests to show young men and young women to be equally intelligent, when they are not. I think they also changed many of the vocabulary words to ones which describe feelings and shit that women are more likely to have a better grasp on.
“Question for the peanut gallery: Should smoking cigarettes or pipes or cigars be considered a manly feature? Or a vice or a weakness to be eschewed?”
A disgusting, unhealthy habit. Voluntary addiction is not God’s path.
*slurps morning coffee*
Of topic, but I received this little gem in my email this morning, via a social network group called “Next Door”:
At first I did a double take. She’s actually bragging about being a single mother of two, expecting that will draw people to her salon.
The worst thing is, it probably works.
Is it not so much skills as attitude. When he was very old my maternal Grandfather came to live with us and he having been a Master Mariner and thus knowledgeable about knots would never resort to the scissors to cut the string of a parcel. I learned that from him and I do likewise no matter how intractable the untieing may seem.
I remember that well:
” On my honor, I will do my best. To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.”
I also remember that one could earn religious medals:
https://www.scouting.org/awards/religious-awards/chart/
Maybe these will be replaced with medals for banging girl scouts at the jamboree?
@Red Pill Latecomer
I see you beat me to posting about the Boy Scout Bankruptcy
@BJ
There are many readers of Dalrock who see Wilson as a valuable ally.
Well, I see him as a pastor who is false teaching. That mainly makes him my, and God’s, enemy. However folks like Dalrock and others here expend a good amount of effort to correct folks like Doug Wilson in hopes that he can be corrected, and become an ally. We are interested in coopting people(Satan’s tools) for God’s righteous patriarchy.
Daniel 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.
BJ says: Should smoking cigarettes or pipes or cigars be considered a manly feature? Or a vice or a weakness to be eschewed?
It is unhealthy, and can become a habit. My Mennonite father, who’s ancestors were greatly persecuted and even martyred by the Papists for hundreds of years, said that the Pope was right about smoking. The pope said smoking was unhealthy a few hundred years before our court system figured it out. My father also said that somebody would have to be all-knowing, to be wrong about everything. So I guess the Pope can be right occasionally. And my Mennonite ancestors, God fearing men who put their lives “at stake”(literally burned at the stake) for their Biblical beliefs, some of whom smoked prior to the Catholic death squads setting them alight, could have been wrong to light up a cigar, pipe, or fag, after dinner.
@Carnivore
Extensive lists like this are ridiculous and can only make beleaguered dads feel even more inadequate.
I agree. While manly men can be introspective, evaluate themselves, and embark upon self improvement, … insecurity and overly seeking society’s validation becomes a snare.
Proverbs 29:25 The fear of man lays a snare, but whoever trusts in the Lord is safe.
Just do what God created you to do.
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
I’m so damn manly, just by virtue of my creation and upbringing, that even when I’m acting a bit fruity, and exploring my artsy side, I’m still 100% male. I don’t need to sweat my masculinity, it is not up for a vote, and not subject to anybody’s approval, except for my creator and judge. The effeminate do not inherit the Kingdom of God. However God didn’t make an extensive list of manly behaviors, so our task of being manly is not too difficult. perhaps we here could compile a list of God’s requirements for manliness that He put in His word. I’ll start us off with a few things I can think of off of the top of my head:
Gird up your loins
Don’t wear women’s clothing
Don’t have long hair
Work
Don’t be a faggot
Don’t pray with your head covered
This was the principle behind the Boy Scout badges wasn’t it? The expectation isn’t to have them all, but to accumulate enough of them to be considered generally competent. I was never a Scout so I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong.
My experience is that the men who discount lists of manly achievements are usually not very accomplished, and–worse–are almost always misers with their respect. Coincidentally, an essential skill of manliness is to recognize and respect excellence in the world and among men.
Off-topic: Sharkly – no news is good news? She is still putting in at least a show effort at counseling? Speaking of sons, will you get time with them at Christmas (what an awful indicator of how perverted this nation is that Sharkly has to negotiate with an addicted child to see his own sons)?
@BJ
Is your church in Texas?
One of the best posts and threads ever. Thanks to all.
We all benefit from technology today too. Those lists above this comment with 100 items or so…they are good, but who can master them all? My own dad, who I consider one of those do-it-all guys, doesn’t do all that stuff.
But with technology, if I had gaps as a kid, I can watch videos, with my sons, and we can work together going forward. It’s a blessing.
This guy (a friend of mine) blogs on “light expeditions”, which are “journeys accessible to anyone willing to develop the necessary strength, courage, and mastery. A light expedition is a short, attainable (in personal cost, preparation time and duration) journey with a purpose that leverages and develops masculine skills and confidence while building self-understanding.”
View at Medium.com
IOW a set of skills like shooting, tracking, scouting, bird/deer cleaning, etc. can be leveraged to facilitate a small hunting expedition. The concept builds on Dalrock’s point that father-to-son transfer of skills seems to be an innately masculine thing we men want to do, to take it to the next level: short expeditions that make men work as a team towards a goal, and create tight bonds and lasting memories. Larry has also spoken eloquently on this in the context of Scouting (something I participate in as well).
O’Keefe rates various skills relative to Donovan’s four masculine virtues: strength, courage, mastery, and honor. He picks sailing as the top masculine skill (St. Paul would probably agree 🙂
I think he wants to take the concept forward into something that can be developed to provide young men a form of “initiation ritual” where they can demonstrate their courage and mastery, and be recognized no longer as a boy, but as a man.
Weman talk and men do. Learning a new skill is in the doing not in the talking. My next project is building a earthen bread oven out of clay ,sand , and straw. Gonna try to cook pizza in the outdoors. And yes my son will be helping
Is Scott’s blog, used to be American Dad, gone or moved on the web? He had some great posts I was looking for….
My dad taught me how to play the guitar, then got me lessons when I passed his level of skill.
He taught me how to shoot safely.
He taught me how to mow and bale hay, how to do repairs on equipment, and how to go about learning how to repair something you don’t know how to repair.
He taught me (indirectly) how to talk with people and enjoy them.
I owe a lot to my dad, and every year I figure out more that came from him that I can be thankful for.
Swanny River,
Thanks for your concern. Yes, you are right. My wife is making a show of claiming to want to reconcile her own frivorce, while refusing to be anything but an enemy to me. My wife is in denial about her behavioral addiction, and she absolutely refuses to get any sort of treatment counselling or assessment for the condition. She refused to go to any of the counselling I had chosen. So I went to the counsellor she picked out and the cunt immediately refused to counsel us together. The court had asked us to get joint marriage counsel. I went for a solo session with the lady, and after 2 full sessions, 1 joint, and one solo, had still not received my first word of counsel. You have to spend hundreds of dollars to go to a session where they explain that you have medical privacy rights, and ask how you will be paying for the counselling. It is a racket. Anyhow the lady tried to pawn me off onto another counselor, for counselling. I just called the guy and told him that I was not going to be accepting blame for my wife’s issues, I would not be changing any of my behavior towards my wife, until my wife changed hers, but that I would be happy to get some counsel as to how to deal with my wife’s issues. Long story short, not my first rodeo, he said there would be no point to talk with me if he couldn’t blame shit on me and then get me to cuck myself, but said it in his own words of course. My wife turned down offers of free marriage counsel from a good Christian source. She doesn’t want to be told to submit, respect, and put out, like you vowed, and did for a herd of other guys.
Yes, I’ll be getting to spend a bunch of unsupervised time with my boys during the holidays, they’ll be spending this weekend with me again. What my wife has done, with the aid of a nasty lawyer and the Feminist family court, has messed them up pretty bad. Her neighbors have even called the cops because of all the prolonged periods of screaming that goes on at her apartment. She was raised by a Feminist mom, has only sisters, and they ruled over her semi-retarded father. She has no clue how to raise boys into men. I tried to tell her that if she just screamed at them, the day would come when they’d just scream back at her.
BJ should answer Cane, but it is not, unfortunately.
I had to develop most of those skills myself since moving out to the burbs and becoming a homeowner. It was a little difficult to learn how to shoot, etc. while growing up in an apartment in NYC. I was a Cub Scout, and even then I was always amused by the achievements and electives in the Wolf and Bear books that called for doing X in your backyard or basement.
Today I’m realistic enough to do what I can myself on my house and car, and call in outside help if I don’t know what I’m doing. The trick is not to be too macho and know the difference.
I bought a shotgun in 2008 the weekend after Obama was elected, but didn’t get out to the firing range until a friend literally dragged me out there. A great experience have been going regularly since.
He shut it down due to a lack of time for it.
Great post and discussion starter.
The data strongly suggests the most important thing fathers teach is taking appropriate risk. Wrestle with your children, push them to do things that are dangerous and within their limits. This sort of stuff comes naturally to dads who have not been beat down by feminism. If your wife is breathing hard and gives you an anxious smack afterward saying she was worried you are over the target.
As far as practical stuff – people are different. My dad fixed cars with me. He wasn’t very good at it. I don’t think its important super important. What is important is to show your son you can do anything you want. We needed to make a piece of furniture around our house so we looked up plans, borrowed tools (as I said, not that handy) and we made it. Not very pretty but does exactly what we wanted. Your sons learn you can solve problems, use your hands and do anything other men do. Maybe not as skillfully but you can learn.
Robert Heinlein, “A Man should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently and die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”
A man does what is needed. He also knows his economical situation, sometimes does it himself, sometimes pays someone else because he knows the value of his time. My dad built his own house and could weld anything. I work on stuff best seen through a microscope. My son has had his second novel published and it is now in the bookstores. Heinlein’s quote across three generations.
The big lesson is to teach is to plan a project show to to make it work. It was a big deal for me to hunt a deer, field dress it, butcher it, and wrap the meat in in freezer paper to have a basket of packaged meat that looked like it came from the store. My dad and uncle taught me that.
Many years ago, I was doing some home remodeling work for a man with a vaguely British ancestry, and he told me that in Britain there is a cultural trope that to have lived a full life, a man should have done three things … Write a book, build a house, and raise a son. Not sure I fully agree, and not sure it is really a common British idea, but for some reason it has always stuck with me.
Competing for love: Applying sexual economics theory to mating contests
Author links open overlay panelRoy F.BaumeisterabTaniaReynoldsaBoWinegardaKathleen D.Vohsc
Show more
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.joep.2017.07.009Get rights and content
Under a Creative Commons licenseopen access
Highlights
•
Sexual economics theory analyzes sexual relationships in economic and market terms.
•
Women can offer sex or exclusive sexual access to men in exchange for resources.
•
Women compete by enhancing physical appearance and denigrating rivals’ reputations.
•
Men compete both individually and in groups to amass resources to exchange for sex.
•
Because men can compete as groups, male competition is less zero sum than women’s.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016748701630277X
Robert Heinlein, “A Man should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently and die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”
I had that quote pinned to my bulletin board as a younger man. My brother’s wife discovered it on one of her visits and read it. Got a weird look on her face, turned to me, and asked why? That one question taught me a lot about her in particular, and women in general..
@Sharkly
I have to disagree with you on art being fruity. Remember men labored to build Solomons temple and all the palaces of Kings and Cathedrals. Michaelangelo glorified God with his grand paintings. And eastern orthodox have the most harmonious baritone choirs.
Beauty produced by the hands of men the way those men did it isnt effeminate in the least.
Generally fruity art is decadent and shallow. The depth and substance isnt there. Like watered down wine.
I’d second the comments about singing in a male voice choir. We’re Catholic and we go to the Latin Mass, and I sing Gregorian chant with a few other men there. It’s very satisfying. Gregorian chant isn’t without emotion but it’s restrained and dignified – not sentimental at all. The chap in charge is very no-nonsense about it, so we just aim to sing accurately with no precious-ness.
My office is dominated by women (men are outnumbered by about three to one) so I think that choir is the only sphere where I work with a single-sex male group to achieve something worthwhile. It’s so refreshing.
@Sharkly
”Which is why when they started “sex norming” all the intelligence tests, about 70 years ago. they had to pull most of those types of questions off of the tests to show young men and young women to be equally intelligent, when they are not. I think they also changed many of the vocabulary words to ones which describe feelings and shit that women are more likely to have a better grasp on.”
Agreed.
@Sharkly
Masculine Art has a Gravity about it . A Weight of Glory that is absent from decadent fruity art.
No skill is more important to teach your son than hermeneutics, especially Biblical hermeneutics. To understand, to organize the incoming stream of information into proper categories and set them into memory is the definition that God gave to the male human as a group. In Genesis 1:27 God first talks about Adam (the red one) being created in His/Their image (Elohim is a plural of 3 or more ie 1-El, 2-Eloha, 3-Elohim) but then God says that both sexes are also in God’s image. The word for male their is “zakar” and it means “the remembeirng” or “remembered” one. The word for female is actually most often used as a curse, “neqebah” means “one that is violently pierced” as in having a spear driven through them. Consider that Christ is the second Adam, and you may understand what was said to Mary His mother in Luke 2:35.
Consider also why the entire fall happened: Gen 3:17 (NASB): Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’. Cursed is the ground because of you. In toil you will eat of it
All the days of your life.
Teach this to your son. The entire curse is because Adam listened to his wife instead of the memory of what God said. Note that we do not know who told Eve, as the command not to eat the fruit is given only to Adam (as written). It is the husband’s responsibility to remember and follow the Word who is God. It is the responsibility of the wife to obey her husband (except where he direct in clear violation of God). Teach him to ignore all the advice that communication is the route to a good marriage, to listen to his wife and all the other contra Biblical advice that is standard fare from pastors and counselors. I am happily married 37 years and I hear my wife’s words but I listen to God’s Word foremost. She may have temporary fits as I tell her no, but in the long run she is secure in the knowledge I will follow God rather than her (well, sometimes, unfortunately I often sin and follow my own ways). Teach your son to think clearly, to interpret the Bible systematically and to remember God’s word. Then he will be zakar. A stone house built upon the solid Bedrock upon which the clinging vine that is the wife can rely.
What’s the most important thing to teach your son?
How to be a disciple of Christ first, and second a husband (if he chooses to marry) or an independent man (if he chooses not to marry).
The specific skill-set varies depending on the father and on the son, not all men are alike in their preferences. But mentality should be:
0. place obedience to God above all, love God above all, be dependent on God for all
1. take your responsibility
2. be a leader in your own live
3. be true to your word
4. be honorable
5. love the people around you, especially your family
6. follow your heart, but be willing to bring sacrifices if other priorities are more important
7. allow yourself to make mistakes and learn from them
8. improve yourself
9. challenge yourself
but then God says that both sexes are also in God’s image.
No He doesn’t.
God says He created both sexes. “Adam” was created in God’s image beforehand.
It is like God is giving a legal product description. Twice God states that Adam was created in His image, and then he says that He created both sexes, but intentionally did not say that was done in His image.
Genesis 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
The Apostle Paul also makes clear that the woman is not in God’s image, like the man, and that is exactly why he is not to cover his head when communing with God his Father, while she on the other hand, taken out of man and reflecting man’s glory, not created in God’s image or reflecting God’s glory, is required to cover her head.
1 Corinthians 11:7 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
Until you grasp that men are created on a higher level than women, resembling God as His representative, it seems unfair that God demands women submit to her husband in everything as unto Him. Once you understand man was created for God to serve God’s purpose, and that the woman was created for man, to help serve the man’s purpose, as The Bible clearly tells us, only then does Patriarchy seem like it is completely fair and benevolent to women, as it is their privilege and duty to serve the higher creature created as the image of God to be her earthly head. To be a physical and present lord to submit to, making her task of submitting to God, not require as much abstract reasoning as the man’s task of serving a God not seen, revealed mainly through text, and clues in creation.
Until voters stop misusing government to rob men to pay women to leave men, the problem of a material percentage of fathers NOT in the home will continue (and it’s already increased past 1 in 4 children not having their father in their home).
The greatest change that can benefit children in the future in the U.S. is to eliminate the ability of women to misuse government to rob men after they’ve left them whether directly (e.g. alimony, child support, etc…) but also indirectly (welfare, non-entitlement social services for single mothers).
My father taught me good and bad things, and some he didn’t realize he was teaching me as I watched the relationship he had with my mother. He was more of an intellectual, read a lot, questioned everything, taught me to stand up to my teachers when they were wrong, work hard and be self sacrificial. He did teach me to hunt, fish, and how to finish a fight. Indirectly he taught me to find a woman that is the opposite of my mother. Through the torment of dealing with her, being a loudmouth, haughty, unsubmissive, materialistic, thankless, lying, churchian that never cracked a bible, he taught me to escape through drinking alcohol, taking drugs, and watching pornography. Since we went to church and I did read the bible, I saw the stark contrast between what it teaches and what modern churches teach. What true Godly womanhood could be, and thank God I found one that is as close as one can expect from this horrible culture. Thank God she never went to church growing up or they would have ruined her. She was respectful to and loved her father, and has a quiet, gentle spirit. She is submissive, willing to be led and taught the Word. I’ve been a lurker for years Dalrock and I’ve learned much from this site as well, it’s helped me make sense of the cognitive dissonance I saw growing up in churches that pay lip service to the bible while having women run things and weak men act as figureheads. Thank you for all you do, can’t wait to meet you in person after we leave this world.
Sad to say my father never was around to teach me those things that were listed in the article above. I had to learn all that on my own through personal initiative as an adult, rather than having that shared experience with my dad. I’m not saying my father didn’t care for me, he sacrificed a lot to ensure that me, my sister and my mom were as comfortable as we could be, he just chose to bury himself in work to make sure we were provided for. I lament the fact that I never really got that quality time with him to even learn about these things and in some ways I do believe it has stunted my social development, but at this point there’s no use crying over spilled milk. I suppose I can consider myself one of the “beautiful ones” from Calhoun’s experiments, though if I ever do have children I’ll make sure my sons will have the quality time and mentoring that I didn’t get.
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